Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
Author Message
BePcr07 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,900
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 342
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #41
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
The OP question asks, on a broader term, if there are power schools lurking in the non-power realms. That depends. What power conference is asking? It surely isn’t the B1G or SEC. The ACC might be which would probably be Cincinnati or no one. The PAC may have no choice but may risk current members leaving - so we’re looking at maybe Houston and a couple MWC members. The XII might but, like the PAC, it would probably come at the cost of losing current members but possibly BYU, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Central Florida, South Florida, or East Carolina.

My money is on either maintaining the status quo or the PAC and/or XII becoming a shell of themselves and non-power schools filling in.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2019 03:13 PM by BePcr07.)
01-02-2019 03:12 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
HeartOfDixie Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 24,689
Joined: Oct 2013
Reputation: 945
I Root For: Alabama
Location: Huntsville AL
Post: #42
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 02:54 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:41 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  UCF was up 14 after LSU threw a pick. That is not a break, that's crappy play by LSU.

Also, you can move the ball all you want between the 20s. It means nothing.

You’re being purposely obtuse.

No, I am not.

Even if UCF had won, the injury excuse - and I have to add, the excuse of having players ejected for targeting - would have been the reason. And even if LSU didn't have any players missing, the excuse then would have been that they weren't motivated to play against UCF.

Rationalizations all over the place. If UCF's talent wasn't that close they wouldn't have won LAST year. Oh that's right, the P5 team wasn't motivated. Never mind.

What would have happened doesn't matter.

A very depleted LSU beat UCF, overcoming a significant deficit and putting up some strong numbers while limiting UCF's.

The motivation argument is rarely correct and it wouldn't have applied in this scenario. However, being down 8 starters is considerable and that can't be denied.

You can only deal with the fact, as opposed to attempting to anticipate argument on imaginary facts.

LSU beat UCF because UCF was good but not great and most certainly not a playoff contender.
01-02-2019 03:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 50,018
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 2372
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: New Orleans
Post: #43
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 02:24 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:13 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Since the other thread was closed out prematurely....

LSU having a weak offense is not an excuse for only winning by 8.

Some strong plays and good breaks went UCF's way.

The stats showed a murder show.

The UCF guy dropped an easy TD and UCF's coach for some odd reason didn't take the FG but decided to go for it. That's 10 points right there.

On LSU's last scoring drive, their receiver dropped a TD pass right in his hands so they settled for 3.

There's no getting around the fact that LSU manhandled UCF, dominated play.
01-02-2019 03:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoldenWarrior11 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,628
Joined: Jul 2015
Reputation: 602
I Root For: Marquette, BE
Location: Chicago
Post: #44
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
Without question, long-term, UCF (and USF) are strong candidates for membership in a power conference. The biggest hurdle for them is playing catch up (both schools have only played at the FBS/DI level for a relatively short time period - as compared to the many older, more established P5 programs). Both schools have incredibly high enrollments, and their alumni figures will only grow over time (not to mention an increase in famous/affluent alumni). Florida is one of the largest recruiting areas for football in the country and a number of the top-50 media markets in the country as well (Tampa/St. Petersburg, Miami/Ft. Lauderdale, Orlando/Daytona Beach, West Palm Beach/Ft. Pierce, Jacksonville, Ft. Myers/Naples). Texas, which also is a very strong recruiting area with many strong markets, has Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor and TCU within the P5. Florida, presently, only has three: Florida, Florida State and Miami.

The state has enough resources to support more power football programs. The only question is who will end up grabbing them. The Big 12 would be wise to extend their footprint into Florida, but I sincerely doubt that its leadership would be forward-thinking enough to consider that. If Florida State ever got taken away from the ACC, a UCF/USF combination would be a no-brainer.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2019 03:43 PM by GoldenWarrior11.)
01-02-2019 03:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
NIU007 Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 34,241
Joined: Sep 2004
Reputation: 315
I Root For: NIU, MAC
Location: Naperville, IL
Post: #45
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 03:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:54 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:41 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  UCF was up 14 after LSU threw a pick. That is not a break, that's crappy play by LSU.

Also, you can move the ball all you want between the 20s. It means nothing.

You’re being purposely obtuse.

No, I am not.

Even if UCF had won, the injury excuse - and I have to add, the excuse of having players ejected for targeting - would have been the reason. And even if LSU didn't have any players missing, the excuse then would have been that they weren't motivated to play against UCF.

Rationalizations all over the place. If UCF's talent wasn't that close they wouldn't have won LAST year. Oh that's right, the P5 team wasn't motivated. Never mind.

What would have happened doesn't matter.

A very depleted LSU beat UCF, overcoming a significant deficit and putting up some strong numbers while limiting UCF's.

The motivation argument is rarely correct and it wouldn't have applied in this scenario. However, being down 8 starters is considerable and that can't be denied.

You can only deal with the fact, as opposed to attempting to anticipate argument on imaginary facts.

LSU beat UCF because UCF was good but not great and most certainly not a playoff contender.

Yea I wouldn't really have argued this year that they were Top 4, thought they were better last year (and of course arguable even then). Anyway, don't care enough to argue all THAT much about it.
01-02-2019 03:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
NIU007 Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 34,241
Joined: Sep 2004
Reputation: 315
I Root For: NIU, MAC
Location: Naperville, IL
Post: #46
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 03:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:24 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:13 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Since the other thread was closed out prematurely....

LSU having a weak offense is not an excuse for only winning by 8.

Some strong plays and good breaks went UCF's way.

The stats showed a murder show.

The UCF guy dropped an easy TD and UCF's coach for some odd reason didn't take the FG but decided to go for it. That's 10 points right there.

On LSU's last scoring drive, their receiver dropped a TD pass right in his hands so they settled for 3.

There's no getting around the fact that LSU manhandled UCF, dominated play.

What if they had dominated in yardage but lost the game? Does that still mean they basically won?
01-02-2019 03:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ken d Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,335
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 1211
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #47
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 01:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 01:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  “Tradition” isn’t really the correct term. In college football, “tradition” means having played football at the highest levels for decades or even 100-plus years, while the UCF program at the FBS level isn’t even 25 years old yet. To the extent that there are AAC schools with “tradition”, they’re schools like Navy, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU and, yes, Tulane. (FWIW, I think that this is an underrated factor in realignment. UConn probably isn’t in a P5 conference today because their FBS program is simply too young. Years played at the lower FCS or old Division I-AA levels are irrelevant. P5 conferences *want* old grainy black-and-white photos of football teams playing at the top level from 50 to 100 years ago.) If you want to argue that UCF has had a lot of recent success in a great fast-growing TV market and recruiting area that could be attractive to the Big 12, then that’s all true. The “tradition” part can’t really be accelerated, though - the only thing that builds tradition is the passage of time.

I think their directional name will keep them out of the P5.

If their name was Florida Tech, even the University of Florida at Orlando (UFO), their chances would be greater than what they are now.

UFO School motto, "We want to believe!"

Isn't that already their motto? 07-coffee3
01-02-2019 04:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RobUCF Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,337
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 104
I Root For: UCF
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Post: #48
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 03:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:54 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:41 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  UCF was up 14 after LSU threw a pick. That is not a break, that's crappy play by LSU.

Also, you can move the ball all you want between the 20s. It means nothing.

You’re being purposely obtuse.

No, I am not.

Even if UCF had won, the injury excuse - and I have to add, the excuse of having players ejected for targeting - would have been the reason. And even if LSU didn't have any players missing, the excuse then would have been that they weren't motivated to play against UCF.

Rationalizations all over the place. If UCF's talent wasn't that close they wouldn't have won LAST year. Oh that's right, the P5 team wasn't motivated. Never mind.

What would have happened doesn't matter.

A very depleted LSU beat UCF, overcoming a significant deficit and putting up some strong numbers while limiting UCF's.

The motivation argument is rarely correct and it wouldn't have applied in this scenario. However, being down 8 starters is considerable and that can't be denied.

You can only deal with the fact, as opposed to attempting to anticipate argument on imaginary facts.

LSU beat UCF because UCF was good but not great and most certainly not a playoff contender.

Either side can come up with excuses or rationalizations like you are doing. I could just as easily say that UCF was missing a Heisman trophy contender at QB, the most important position in the game, whose replacement was a freshman who had only played two complete games in his career (and surprise, surprise the statistical gap you are referring to was almost entirely related to passing yards). But in the end, the only think that matters is the final scoreboard. The score was close, but congrats to LSU on getting the win.
01-02-2019 04:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
goodknightfl Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 21,110
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 499
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #49
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:06 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 01:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 01:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

It's not a popular position but USF in spite of a lower sports profile will be accepted in the P5 quicker than UCF will be. They are increasing their research spending, are building an on campus stadium. I agree that UCF has supplanted them athletically, but USF is growing in the very things that P conferences examine when making these decisions. Now saying that doesn't mean that USF is close to getting a P5 bid because they aren't. But it is to say that between the two schools I see USF of being a higher profile potential candidate.

USF is not building an on campus stadium, UCF has one, UCF just built a Medical School, research is growing at both schools, You know nothing about nothing. No one really knows what would happen, My guess is both are going to be AAC for 10 plus years.
01-02-2019 04:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 37,901
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 7737
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #50
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 04:52 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:06 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 01:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 01:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

It's not a popular position but USF in spite of a lower sports profile will be accepted in the P5 quicker than UCF will be. They are increasing their research spending, are building an on campus stadium. I agree that UCF has supplanted them athletically, but USF is growing in the very things that P conferences examine when making these decisions. Now saying that doesn't mean that USF is close to getting a P5 bid because they aren't. But it is to say that between the two schools I see USF of being a higher profile potential candidate.

USF is not building an on campus stadium, UCF has one, UCF just built a Medical School, research is growing at both schools, You know nothing about nothing. No one really knows what would happen, My guess is both are going to be AAC for 10 plus years.

I had seen the plans for the USF stadium. If it's not being built then fine. But their research is ahead of yours. If you are getting a medical school that will certainly help. But I know enough to know neither of you are going to be in a P5 conference anytime soon. The Big 12 is your only shot. But if you wind up there most likely it will be because Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas have moved on. If so there is no guarantee it will be treated any differently than the old Big East after all of the defections. So I at least know what your not going to be in the foreseeable future. Apparently you don't even know that!
01-02-2019 05:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 37,901
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 7737
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #51
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 04:38 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 01:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 01:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  “Tradition” isn’t really the correct term. In college football, “tradition” means having played football at the highest levels for decades or even 100-plus years, while the UCF program at the FBS level isn’t even 25 years old yet. To the extent that there are AAC schools with “tradition”, they’re schools like Navy, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU and, yes, Tulane. (FWIW, I think that this is an underrated factor in realignment. UConn probably isn’t in a P5 conference today because their FBS program is simply too young. Years played at the lower FCS or old Division I-AA levels are irrelevant. P5 conferences *want* old grainy black-and-white photos of football teams playing at the top level from 50 to 100 years ago.) If you want to argue that UCF has had a lot of recent success in a great fast-growing TV market and recruiting area that could be attractive to the Big 12, then that’s all true. The “tradition” part can’t really be accelerated, though - the only thing that builds tradition is the passage of time.

I think their directional name will keep them out of the P5.

If their name was Florida Tech, even the University of Florida at Orlando (UFO), their chances would be greater than what they are now.

UFO School motto, "We want to believe!"

Isn't that already their motto? 07-coffee3

No. I think it's "We insist you believe!"
01-02-2019 05:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
Senior Chief Realignmentologist
*

Posts: 11,795
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 789
I Root For: Ohio St, UC,MAC
Location: Biden Cesspool
Post: #52
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
My thoughts:

You can't fault UCF for the Fiesta Bowl having low attendance--it required a flight for fans of both schools and I doubt that too many bayou Bengal fans were anxious to pony up a bunch of cash to make that trip to play the Knights.

Boise St gets too much credit for their winning streaks. They were playing some very lousy competition in the Big West and WAC. Had they spent those years playing in the MWC against Utah, BYU, and TCU their win totals would be a lot smaller. UCF has been playing in a much tougher AAC and beat quality competition.

UCF absolutely belongs in a P5 league along with Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, and USF. I think they'd make a quality addition to the Big 12 or ACC. Frankly, I think adding UCF and USF would be great for the ACC: go to pods of 4 and place a FLA team in each pod and every ACC school is guaranteed an annual away game in the Sunshine State.
01-02-2019 05:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
toddjnsn Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,553
Joined: Sep 2009
Reputation: 154
I Root For: WMU, MAC
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Post: #53
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
Quote:Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?

If one wanted to make it by tradition alone, NO. Two years in a row of being the best in G5 isn't enough. Boise has more than them.

In reality, to make the P5 it's not based on that. It's based on attendance & $$ it can generate. UCF has a lot of that, and so does Houston. But obviously if you're lousy, you're not going to be wanted, but Rutgers going to the B1G shows that it isn't the end all be all.

Teams with the $$ & size to make it into a P5:
- Boise
- BYU (if they let the virgins play on Sundays)
- UCF
- Houston
- (maybe a few more like Cinci and SD State; dunno)
01-02-2019 05:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Kittonhead Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,000
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 122
I Root For: Beat Matisse
Location:
Post: #54
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 03:42 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The state has enough resources to support more power football programs. The only question is who will end up grabbing them. The Big 12 would be wise to extend their footprint into Florida, but I sincerely doubt that its leadership would be forward-thinking enough to consider that. If Florida State ever got taken away from the ACC, a UCF/USF combination would be a no-brainer.

If the ACC has one opening, I think UCF will get it.

They may go to 16 if autobids are required for a playoff with ND going as a full football member. UCF can then be slipped in as a 16th.

Unless the B1G is thinking to go with a UVA/UNC combo but I don't see it. I think the B1G West schools don't want to give up cross divisional games against OSU and Michigan the traditional heart of the conference.
01-02-2019 05:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BePcr07 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,900
Joined: Dec 2015
Reputation: 342
I Root For: Boise St & Zags
Location:
Post: #55
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
If the ACC has an opening, it will go to Cincinnati.
01-02-2019 06:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
otown Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,165
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 255
I Root For: Florida
Location:
Post: #56
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 02:53 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
Quote:Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?

No

Two years does not a tradition make.


Boise State hasn't had less than an 8 win season this century, has multiple major bowl wins and multiple major P5 game wins and they don;t have the tradition yet either.

First, BSU being a glorified community college in a small media market will keep BSU out.

As far as using the 8 win season streak, multiple major bowl wins (which UCF actually has) as an arguement against....... gee, so the requirement is suddenly being a team better historically than the top 10 percent of the P5? That is some threshold........07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2019 06:25 PM by otown.)
01-02-2019 06:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
otown Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,165
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 255
I Root For: Florida
Location:
Post: #57
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
Another wildcard is that UCF is building a damn fine bball program. No, it wont be the cause for an invite, but it is one less thing for a P5 conference to worry about. UCF will be no liability on the bball front.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2019 06:28 PM by otown.)
01-02-2019 06:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Kaplony Offline
Palmetto State Deplorable

Posts: 25,393
Joined: Apr 2013
I Root For: Newberry
Location: SC
Post: #58
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
(01-02-2019 06:25 PM)otown Wrote:  
(01-02-2019 02:53 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
Quote:Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?

No

Two years does not a tradition make.


Boise State hasn't had less than an 8 win season this century, has multiple major bowl wins and multiple major P5 game wins and they don;t have the tradition yet either.

First, BSU being a glorified community college in a small media market will keep BSU out.

As far as using the 8 win season streak, multiple major bowl wins (which UCF actually has) as an arguement against....... gee, so the requirement is suddenly being a team better historically than the top 10 percent of the P5? That is some threshold........07-coffee3

Don't worry your pwetty wittle head. Boise isn't getting in the P5 either.
01-02-2019 06:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
chargeradio Offline
Vamos Morados
*

Posts: 7,467
Joined: Mar 2007
Reputation: 121
I Root For: ALA, KY, USA
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #59
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
As crazy as it sounds, the shortest path to the P5 for UCF would be the Pac 12. Assuming there was sufficient deregulation of the conference championship game, the Pac 12 could add an eastern quad of UCF, USF, Cincinnati, and one other school.

Aside from the obvious travel issue, the only question would be if the four schools do enough research to make it past the Pac 12 CEOs (the university presidents).
01-02-2019 07:00 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Kittonhead Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,000
Joined: Jun 2013
Reputation: 122
I Root For: Beat Matisse
Location:
Post: #60
RE: Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?
No I think the shortest path is clearly the XII.

-Could they go to 12?

-Could they go to 14?

-Could they be raided?

The odds that something will happen to the XII in the next 10 years is pretty good. The ACC is a more remote chance but a decent chance for UCF since I doubt anyone aside from UC/UConn will be in play for that one.
01-02-2019 07:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.