Talking about tradition, would Saint Mary's be in the PAC 12 today? They played many Rose Bowl and other bowl major games in the early years. Since they dropped football is a moot point.

(01-04-2019 08:56 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  “Tradition” isn’t really the correct term. In college football, “tradition” means having played football at the highest levels for decades or even 100-plus years, while the UCF program at the FBS level isn’t even 25 years old yet. To the extent that there are AAC schools with “tradition”, they’re schools like Navy, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU and, yes, Tulane. (FWIW, I think that this is an underrated factor in realignment. UConn probably isn’t in a P5 conference today because their FBS program is simply too young. Years played at the lower FCS or old Division I-AA levels are irrelevant. P5 conferences *want* old grainy black-and-white photos of football teams playing at the top level from 50 to 100 years ago.) If you want to argue that UCF has had a lot of recent success in a great fast-growing TV market and recruiting area that could be attractive to the Big 12, then that’s all true. The “tradition” part can’t really be accelerated, though - the only thing that builds tradition is the passage of time.

My school Ohio has been playing football for over 100 years and has those grainy black and white team photographs. Three coaches have won over 100 games at the school.

But as far as NY6 tradition goes, we don't have any tradition there. A few mid tier bowls (Sun, Independence, Tangerine) but no NY6 tradition.

Every member of the AAC has been to an NY6 bowl at one time or another in their history aside from USF. That to me is an important reason as to why Tulsa and Tulane got into the AAC over LaTech and USM which are better competitive additions.

In basketball having a Final Four somewhere in your history does that for you. Ohio defeated Kentucky and Louisville in the same NCAA tournament yet has never made a Final Four. Charlotte, UAB, WKU, NMSU all have a Final Four tucked back there in their history. Of course multiple Elite 8 finishes like Temple has accounts for something too.

For this reason UCF with its 3 NYD games has added to its strengths in TV market and recruiting potential acceptable FB tradition despite only having a FB team for 40 years.

Florida State's football program was 45 years old when invited to join the ACC. But they had made 8 NYD bowls prior to first year of ACC play in 1992. Florida State was a conference changing addition for the ACC.

UCF is not an addition of that caliber for the ACC or XII but the question is do they have an acceptable tradition level at this point for an opening to the club and I would argue they do with the 3 NYDs.

Florida State also took 2 for 1s, played a lot of road games and built their brand unlike UCF.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(01-04-2019 01:43 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  Each school generates its own revenues. I speaking about the bowl and CFP payouts. By excluding the G5, your penalizing not for performance but for perception. UCF generates more revenue than Vanderbilt.

I think things are going to rapidly change because the value of the bowls is going down. Lack of people in the stands and lack of tv viewers.

Plus the AP and Coaches Polls varied quite often and we did see split national titles.

The G5 isn't excluded, it gets about 17% of the overall CFP revenues. It gets that much because that is how much it is worth.

Yes, the AP and Coaches polls have split before, but they would never split between a G5 and a P5 if the G5 refused to play the P5.

(01-04-2019 01:45 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(01-04-2019 01:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-04-2019 11:49 AM)Sellular1 Wrote:  

(01-04-2019 11:23 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-04-2019 10:14 AM)AntiG Wrote:  it has nothing directly to do with tradition... all up to what the P5 conference wants as a conference-mate to get in and whether they actually want to expand.

For Rutgers, it certainly wasn't any of the football tradition other than that we hosted the first college football game in history and helped develop the sport with the Ivy League schools. It was being the only non-Army FBS school the NYC metro area and being academic peers and being on the same research level with Big Ten schools that got us in.

UCF, just like UConn, Houston, Cincinnati, USF, SMU, Boise St, Memphis, etc are on the outside looking in regardless of their football success. A power conference has to collectively decide to expand and want you. The problem for them is that the B12 is not interested in expanding unless in 2024 the rumored Oklahoma and Texas exodus happens, which also means that if/when that occurs, they will basically lose their long-term power and eventually drop to the new G6 status just like the old Big East did after losing West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Rutgers, Louisville.

Exactly. Neither tradition nor performance are the relevant factors here. If they were, as you point out, Rutgers would not have been invited to join the B1G. What Rutgers had, in the eyes of the B1G, was value - they brought something to the table no other school could. They brought NYC Metro, and in the eyes of the B1G that was important enough - just like Maryland brought the DC Metro.

Unless and until some P5 conference believes that adding G5 schools will improve the earnings of their current members in the long run, further P5 expansion won't happen.

If that logic was sound the B12 would snap up the Florida twins ASAP because they bring a huge and growing market. Both schools have over 50,000 students.

I wish it were so, but obviously, value doesn't necessarily have much to do with how big a school is. Notre Dame is a small school, with about 9,000 students, but it is far more valuable than any number of schools with 5 or 6 times that many.

The same is true in hoops, e.g., Duke is a small school but is very valuable to TV, whereas USF is a huge school but has near-zero basketball value to TV.

That is Apple and Oranges. Basketball has the NCAA tournament, which was expanded.

But the point stands - school size has little to do with school athletic value.

Academic fit not the top priority but if you do not meet the minimum no chance.
Facilities same got to meet the minimum.
Once those two are met its
Market ,Recruiting base and athletic success are what separates the candidates.

BYU ,UCF, U Conn, Cincinnati , CSU are the candidates

Utah, TCU and Rutgers met the criteria
Rutgers market made up for lack of athletic success it was an extreme case. UCF market and recruiting base could make up for lack of tradition.

(01-04-2019 08:04 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Academic fit not the top priority but if you do not meet the minimum no chance.
Facilities same got to meet the minimum.
Once those two are met its
Market ,Recruiting base and athletic success are what separates the candidates.

BYU ,UCF, U Conn, Cincinnati , CSU are the candidates

Utah, TCU and Rutgers met the criteria
Rutgers market made up for lack of athletic success it was an extreme case. UCF market and recruiting base could make up for lack of tradition.

After San Jose, CSU is the biggest bottom feeder in the MW, also CU would never allow them in The PAC.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It's pretty clear to me Houston made a loud statement they want to be a part of the Big Twelve.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

No question UCF had enough tradition to be a part of the country club after a whopping 23 years of Division 1 football!

No question

(01-04-2019 09:17 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(01-04-2019 08:04 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Academic fit not the top priority but if you do not meet the minimum no chance.
Facilities same got to meet the minimum.
Once those two are met its
Market ,Recruiting base and athletic success are what separates the candidates.

BYU ,UCF, U Conn, Cincinnati , CSU are the candidates

Utah, TCU and Rutgers met the criteria
Rutgers market made up for lack of athletic success it was an extreme case. UCF market and recruiting base could make up for lack of tradition.

After San Jose, CSU is the biggest bottom feeder in the MW, also CU would never allow them in The PAC.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Big Twelve final four last time.

(01-05-2019 10:23 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  

(01-04-2019 09:17 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(01-04-2019 08:04 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Academic fit not the top priority but if you do not meet the minimum no chance.
Facilities same got to meet the minimum.
Once those two are met its
Market ,Recruiting base and athletic success are what separates the candidates.

BYU ,UCF, U Conn, Cincinnati , CSU are the candidates

Utah, TCU and Rutgers met the criteria
Rutgers market made up for lack of athletic success it was an extreme case. UCF market and recruiting base could make up for lack of tradition.

After San Jose, CSU is the biggest bottom feeder in the MW, also CU would never allow them in The PAC.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Big Twelve final four last time.

Final 11. Final 3 were BYU, UH and Cincinnati. There was some sentiment for CSU. But then there was some for Tulane also. Not much for the east coast schools. UConn, UCF and USF just created more logistical challenges. Air Force, SMU and Rice were the other finalists.

(01-05-2019 10:00 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  No question UCF had enough tradition to be a part of the country club after a whopping 23 years of Division 1 football!

No question

Florida State had not been playing football much longer than UCF when they got their invite to the ACC.

FSU 1947-1990
UCF 1979-2019

20 years ago UCF made a pitch to CUSA/BE/ACC about joining stating its potential. All they could get into at the time was the MAC.

(01-05-2019 10:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 10:23 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  

(01-04-2019 09:17 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  

(01-04-2019 08:04 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Academic fit not the top priority but if you do not meet the minimum no chance.
Facilities same got to meet the minimum.
Once those two are met its
Market ,Recruiting base and athletic success are what separates the candidates.

BYU ,UCF, U Conn, Cincinnati , CSU are the candidates

Utah, TCU and Rutgers met the criteria
Rutgers market made up for lack of athletic success it was an extreme case. UCF market and recruiting base could make up for lack of tradition.

After San Jose, CSU is the biggest bottom feeder in the MW, also CU would never allow them in The PAC.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Big Twelve final four last time.

Final 11. Final 3 were BYU, UH and Cincinnati. There was some sentiment for CSU. But then there was some for Tulane also. Not much for the east coast schools. UConn, UCF and USF just created more logistical challenges. Air Force, SMU and Rice were the other finalists.

Here is where I think the XII messed up....by going with WVU instead of BYU.

Had the XII picked up BYU it would have diminished the PAC appeal since the XII already had a power school in Utah. Then if it were to go to 12 with Houston and Colorado St included it would lean west even more.

Now Cincinnati is in the mix to balance out WVU's travel, a new problem that was created.