Before the national title game


American: 2-5
ACC: 5-5
Big Ten: 5-4
Big 12: 4-3
Conference USA: 4-2
Independents: 2-1
MAC: 1-5
Mountain West: 3-2
Pac-12: 3-4
SEC 6-5
Sun Belt: 3-2

1- Big 12 is 4-3, favored in no games by Vegas. Took on #1, #5, #13, #20, and #23 for 5 of the 7 matchups out of a ten team league. Highest win % of the P5 leagues and drew no G5 foes.

4-2 if you omit WVU (taking on #20) who was a pale shadow of their normal offense the last two seasons whenever they had to play without Will Grier who sat out the bowl.

2- SEC also did a good job with a tough draw of #4, #7, #8, #12 for 11 teams out of a 14 team league. Being assured of at worst .500 (should Bama lose to Clemson) Vs that is nothing to sneeze at.

3- The ACC went .500 so far but played 3 G5 teams (2-1) and one of their wins was WVU without Grier which is a significant drop off. With that said Clemson’s dismantling of ND and UVA stomping South Carolina were impressive.

4- The PAC struggled again with a losing record and each of their wins were two points or less.

5- The Big Ten was above .500 getting wins against the division winners in the PAC, Miami, GT, and a impressive win Vs Mississippi State.

6- In the G5 the American had a rough go but drawing LSU without Milton and Army without King didn’t help. They also faced P5’s in over half their bouts

7- The MAC has the worst win percentage but the one win (Ohio stomping San Diego St) was a solid one.

8- CUSA has the best overall win % tied with FBS independents that went 2-1 with BYU and Army winning big and Nd losing big.

(01-02-2019 11:27 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Before the national title game which won’t change much with win percentage.

American: 2-5
ACC: 5-5
Big Ten: 5-4
Big 12: 4-3
Conference USA: 4-2
Independents: 2-1
MAC: 1-5
Mountain West: 3-2
Pac-12: 3-4
SEC 6-5
Sun Belt: 3-2

1- Big 12 is 4-3, favored in no games by Vegas. Took on #1, #5, #13, #20, and #23 for 5 of the 7 matchups out of a ten team league. Highest win % of the P5 leagues and drew no G5 foes.

4-2 if you omit WVU (taking on #20) who was a pale shadow of their normal offense the last two seasons whenever they had to play without Will Grier who sat out the bowl.

2- SEC also did a good job with a tough draw of #4, #7, #8, #12 for 11 teams out of a 14 team league. Being assured of at worst .500 (should Bama lose to Clemson) Vs that is nothing to sneeze at.

3- The ACC went .500 so far but played 3 G5 teams (2-1) and one of their wins was WVU without Grier which is a significant drop off. With that said Clemson’s dismantling of ND and UVA stomping South Carolina were impressive.

4- The PAC struggled again with a losing record and each of their wins were two points or less.

5- The Big Ten was above .500 getting wins against the division winners in the PAC, Miami, GT, and a impressive win Vs Mississippi State.

6- In the G5 the American had a rough go but drawing LSU without Milton and Army without King didn’t help. They also faced P5’s in over half their bouts

7- The MAC has the worst win percentage but the one win (Ohio stomping San Diego St) was a solid one.

8- CUSA has the best overall win % tied with FBS independents that went 2-1 with BYU and Army winning big and Nd losing big.

Since you mentioned that the Big XII wasn't favored in its bowls I thought I'd add that the ACC was only favored in 3 of the 11 bowl games (including the one that was cancelled - in which the ACC team was leading early on).

BTW, Texas looked very impressive in the Sugar Bowl.

Finally, I was surprised at how Kentucky was able to handle Penn State didn't see that coming.

Big XII and Sun Belt enter 2019 with three consecutive winning bowl seasons.

(01-02-2019 11:55 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:27 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Before the national title game which won’t change much with win percentage.

American: 2-5
ACC: 5-5
Big Ten: 5-4
Big 12: 4-3
Conference USA: 4-2
Independents: 2-1
MAC: 1-5
Mountain West: 3-2
Pac-12: 3-4
SEC 6-5
Sun Belt: 3-2

1- Big 12 is 4-3, favored in no games by Vegas. Took on #1, #5, #13, #20, and #23 for 5 of the 7 matchups out of a ten team league. Highest win % of the P5 leagues and drew no G5 foes.

4-2 if you omit WVU (taking on #20) who was a pale shadow of their normal offense the last two seasons whenever they had to play without Will Grier who sat out the bowl.

2- SEC also did a good job with a tough draw of #4, #7, #8, #12 for 11 teams out of a 14 team league. Being assured of at worst .500 (should Bama lose to Clemson) Vs that is nothing to sneeze at.

3- The ACC went .500 so far but played 3 G5 teams (2-1) and one of their wins was WVU without Grier which is a significant drop off. With that said Clemson’s dismantling of ND and UVA stomping South Carolina were impressive.

4- The PAC struggled again with a losing record and each of their wins were two points or less.

5- The Big Ten was above .500 getting wins against the division winners in the PAC, Miami, GT, and a impressive win Vs Mississippi State.

6- In the G5 the American had a rough go but drawing LSU without Milton and Army without King didn’t help. They also faced P5’s in over half their bouts

7- The MAC has the worst win percentage but the one win (Ohio stomping San Diego St) was a solid one.

8- CUSA has the best overall win % tied with FBS independents that went 2-1 with BYU and Army winning big and Nd losing big.

Since you mentioned that the Big XII wasn't favored in its bowls I thought I'd add that the ACC was only favored in 3 of the 11 bowl games (including the one that was cancelled - in which the ACC team was leading early on).

BTW, Texas looked very impressive in the Sugar Bowl.

Finally, I was surprised at how Kentucky was able to handle Penn State didn't see that coming.

1- ACC winning 5 games when it was only favored in 3 is solid.

2- UK vs PSU looked pretty evenly matched as both had solid defenses but questionable production on offense this season.

(01-02-2019 11:27 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Before the national title game which won’t change much with win percentage.


American: 2-5
ACC: 5-5
Big Ten: 5-4
Big 12: 4-3
Conference USA: 4-2
Independents: 2-1
MAC: 1-5
Mountain West: 3-2
Pac-12: 3-4
SEC 6-5
Sun Belt: 3-2

1- Big 12 is 4-3, favored in no games by Vegas. Took on #1, #5, #13, #20, and #23 for 5 of the 7 matchups out of a ten team league. Highest win % of the P5 leagues and drew no G5 foes.

4-2 if you omit WVU (taking on #20) who was a pale shadow of their normal offense the last two seasons whenever they had to play without Will Grier who sat out the bowl.

2- SEC also did a good job with a tough draw of #4, #7, #8, #12 for 11 teams out of a 14 team league.

The SEC has won 3 NY6 bowl games, nobody else more than one. That's a big thing.

That said, the Big 12 definitely had a quality bowl season. Not surprising as the Big 12 is a good conference.

(01-02-2019 12:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:27 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Before the national title game which won’t change much with win percentage.


American: 2-5
ACC: 5-5
Big Ten: 5-4
Big 12: 4-3
Conference USA: 4-2
Independents: 2-1
MAC: 1-5
Mountain West: 3-2
Pac-12: 3-4
SEC 6-5
Sun Belt: 3-2

1- Big 12 is 4-3, favored in no games by Vegas. Took on #1, #5, #13, #20, and #23 for 5 of the 7 matchups out of a ten team league. Highest win % of the P5 leagues and drew no G5 foes.

4-2 if you omit WVU (taking on #20) who was a pale shadow of their normal offense the last two seasons whenever they had to play without Will Grier who sat out the bowl.

2- SEC also did a good job with a tough draw of #4, #7, #8, #12 for 11 teams out of a 14 team league.

The SEC has won 3 NY6 bowl games, nobody else more than one. That's a big thing.

That said, the Big 12 definitely had a quality bowl season. Not surprising as the Big 12 is a good conference.

Considering none were favored I would call it surprising.

(01-02-2019 11:27 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Before the national title game


American: 2-5
ACC: 5-5
Big Ten: 5-4
Big 12: 4-3
Conference USA: 4-2
Independents: 2-1
MAC: 1-5
Mountain West: 3-2
Pac-12: 3-4
SEC 6-5
Sun Belt: 3-2

1- Big 12 is 4-3, favored in no games by Vegas. Took on #1, #5, #13, #20, and #23 for 5 of the 7 matchups out of a ten team league. Highest win % of the P5 leagues and drew no G5 foes.

4-2 if you omit WVU (taking on #20) who was a pale shadow of their normal offense the last two seasons whenever they had to play without Will Grier who sat out the bowl.

2- SEC also did a good job with a tough draw of #4, #7, #8, #12 for 11 teams out of a 14 team league. Being assured of at worst .500 (should Bama lose to Clemson) Vs that is nothing to sneeze at.

3- The ACC went .500 so far but played 3 G5 teams (2-1) and one of their wins was WVU without Grier which is a significant drop off. With that said Clemson’s dismantling of ND and UVA stomping South Carolina were impressive.

4- The PAC struggled again with a losing record and each of their wins were two points or less.

5- The Big Ten was above .500 getting wins against the division winners in the PAC, Miami, GT, and a impressive win Vs Mississippi State.

6- In the G5 the American had a rough go but drawing LSU without Milton and Army without King didn’t help. They also faced P5’s in over half their bouts

7- The MAC has the worst win percentage but the one win (Ohio stomping San Diego St) was a solid one.

8- CUSA has the best overall win % tied with FBS independents that went 2-1 with BYU and Army winning big and Nd losing big.

Nobody is going to omit WV's loss to Syracuse. No excuses. You play with what you have. SU fans didnt make excuse when ND beat SU without Eric dungey. We lost with who we had. WV played without 3 of its starters. Syracuse played without 5 of its starters. Syracuse did to WV what it did to almost all of its opponents with their top 10 redzone defense, either forced them to kick field goals or came away with zero points, many times. If you think Grier would have made a difference, maybe. But would it have been enough of a difference to win if Syracuse had its 5 starters on defense playing. I dont think so.

Grier likely would have been rushed and hit and sacked almost as much as Allison was. The other thing that stands out is coaching. I would put alot more trust in Dino Babers gameplan against WV than I would with Holgersons gameplan against Syracuse. Babers is just a better coach. Holgs has never beaten Syracuse.

The Sun Belt East division went 3-0, did any other divisions go undefeated?

(01-02-2019 01:10 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 12:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:27 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Before the national title game which won’t change much with win percentage.


American: 2-5
ACC: 5-5
Big Ten: 5-4
Big 12: 4-3
Conference USA: 4-2
Independents: 2-1
MAC: 1-5
Mountain West: 3-2
Pac-12: 3-4
SEC 6-5
Sun Belt: 3-2

1- Big 12 is 4-3, favored in no games by Vegas. Took on #1, #5, #13, #20, and #23 for 5 of the 7 matchups out of a ten team league. Highest win % of the P5 leagues and drew no G5 foes.

4-2 if you omit WVU (taking on #20) who was a pale shadow of their normal offense the last two seasons whenever they had to play without Will Grier who sat out the bowl.

2- SEC also did a good job with a tough draw of #4, #7, #8, #12 for 11 teams out of a 14 team league.

The SEC has won 3 NY6 bowl games, nobody else more than one. That's a big thing.

That said, the Big 12 definitely had a quality bowl season. Not surprising as the Big 12 is a good conference.

Considering none were favored I would call it surprising.

Betting lines are just house expectations of who the bettors think will win. Has nothing necessarily to do with reality.

I mean consider Baylor vs Vandy, two 6-6 teams playing a bowl in Baylor's home state. That's a coin flip game.

(01-02-2019 03:34 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 01:10 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 12:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:27 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Before the national title game which won’t change much with win percentage.


American: 2-5
ACC: 5-5
Big Ten: 5-4
Big 12: 4-3
Conference USA: 4-2
Independents: 2-1
MAC: 1-5
Mountain West: 3-2
Pac-12: 3-4
SEC 6-5
Sun Belt: 3-2

1- Big 12 is 4-3, favored in no games by Vegas. Took on #1, #5, #13, #20, and #23 for 5 of the 7 matchups out of a ten team league. Highest win % of the P5 leagues and drew no G5 foes.

4-2 if you omit WVU (taking on #20) who was a pale shadow of their normal offense the last two seasons whenever they had to play without Will Grier who sat out the bowl.

2- SEC also did a good job with a tough draw of #4, #7, #8, #12 for 11 teams out of a 14 team league.

The SEC has won 3 NY6 bowl games, nobody else more than one. That's a big thing.

That said, the Big 12 definitely had a quality bowl season. Not surprising as the Big 12 is a good conference.

Considering none were favored I would call it surprising.

Betting lines are just house expectations of who the bettors think will win. Has nothing necessarily to do with reality.

I mean consider Baylor vs Vandy, two 6-6 teams playing a bowl in Baylor's home state. That's a coin flip game.

If you take Alabama and Clemson out of the equation what do you have? Texas with a solid win over Georgia but nothing affecting the national championship. L.S.U. eliminating the long shot claims of of U.C.F. and the elimination of any argument Georgia may have had. There are only two teams left that should be playing for the championship.

My point is look at the rest of the P5 conference records and what do you see? Parity. They all finished about as evenly as is mathematically possible.

It makes Wedge's case when you think about it. That's where we are and why there are so very many who are disaffected, mad, or generally unhappy with a product which has been hijacked and tampered with in destructive ways since the early 80's, but massively since 2008.

(01-02-2019 02:55 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:27 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Before the national title game


American: 2-5
ACC: 5-5
Big Ten: 5-4
Big 12: 4-3
Conference USA: 4-2
Independents: 2-1
MAC: 1-5
Mountain West: 3-2
Pac-12: 3-4
SEC 6-5
Sun Belt: 3-2

1- Big 12 is 4-3, favored in no games by Vegas. Took on #1, #5, #13, #20, and #23 for 5 of the 7 matchups out of a ten team league. Highest win % of the P5 leagues and drew no G5 foes.

4-2 if you omit WVU (taking on #20) who was a pale shadow of their normal offense the last two seasons whenever they had to play without Will Grier who sat out the bowl.

2- SEC also did a good job with a tough draw of #4, #7, #8, #12 for 11 teams out of a 14 team league. Being assured of at worst .500 (should Bama lose to Clemson) Vs that is nothing to sneeze at.

3- The ACC went .500 so far but played 3 G5 teams (2-1) and one of their wins was WVU without Grier which is a significant drop off. With that said Clemson’s dismantling of ND and UVA stomping South Carolina were impressive.

4- The PAC struggled again with a losing record and each of their wins were two points or less.

5- The Big Ten was above .500 getting wins against the division winners in the PAC, Miami, GT, and a impressive win Vs Mississippi State.

6- In the G5 the American had a rough go but drawing LSU without Milton and Army without King didn’t help. They also faced P5’s in over half their bouts

7- The MAC has the worst win percentage but the one win (Ohio stomping San Diego St) was a solid one.

8- CUSA has the best overall win % tied with FBS independents that went 2-1 with BYU and Army winning big and Nd losing big.

Nobody is going to omit WV's loss to Syracuse. No excuses.

1- The Big 12 has the best win % even with that game.
2- That Line was more of an aside emphasizing how well the other squads played who were semi-healthy

Quote:You play with what you have. SU fans didnt make excuse when ND beat SU without Eric dungey. We lost with who we had. WV played without 3 of its starters. Syracuse played without 5 of its starters. Syracuse did to WV what it did to almost all of its opponents with their top 10 redzone defense, either forced them to kick field goals or came away with zero points, many times. If you think Grier would have made a difference, maybe. But would it have been enough of a difference to win if Syracuse had its 5 starters on defense playing. I dont think so.

Grier likely would have been rushed and hit and sacked almost as much as Allison was. The other thing that stands out is coaching. I would put alot more trust in Dino Babers gameplan against WV than I would with Holgersons gameplan against Syracuse. Babers is just a better coach. Holgs has never beaten Syracuse.

3- With Grier they lit up Texas and TCU who I consider to be as good or significantly better defenses. Ask Jake Fromm if UT can get to the QB.

4- Syracuse trailed WV without a decent QB after three quarters. I know who I’m betting on if Grier had played and it sure isn’t Syracuse.

Cuse was a very good team but even healthy I don’t think a matchup vs fully healthy WV goes their way.

5- All of this aside I am glad to see Babers doing well. He contributed to some successful seasons down here.

(01-02-2019 03:29 PM)debragga Wrote:  The Sun Belt East division went 3-0, did any other divisions go undefeated?

The Mountain division of the MWC went 1/1.

(01-02-2019 11:55 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:27 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Before the national title game which won’t change much with win percentage.

American: 2-5
ACC: 5-5
Big Ten: 5-4
Big 12: 4-3
Conference USA: 4-2
Independents: 2-1
MAC: 1-5
Mountain West: 3-2
Pac-12: 3-4
SEC 6-5
Sun Belt: 3-2

1- Big 12 is 4-3, favored in no games by Vegas. Took on #1, #5, #13, #20, and #23 for 5 of the 7 matchups out of a ten team league. Highest win % of the P5 leagues and drew no G5 foes.

4-2 if you omit WVU (taking on #20) who was a pale shadow of their normal offense the last two seasons whenever they had to play without Will Grier who sat out the bowl.

2- SEC also did a good job with a tough draw of #4, #7, #8, #12 for 11 teams out of a 14 team league. Being assured of at worst .500 (should Bama lose to Clemson) Vs that is nothing to sneeze at.

3- The ACC went .500 so far but played 3 G5 teams (2-1) and one of their wins was WVU without Grier which is a significant drop off. With that said Clemson’s dismantling of ND and UVA stomping South Carolina were impressive.

4- The PAC struggled again with a losing record and each of their wins were two points or less.

5- The Big Ten was above .500 getting wins against the division winners in the PAC, Miami, GT, and a impressive win Vs Mississippi State.

6- In the G5 the American had a rough go but drawing LSU without Milton and Army without King didn’t help. They also faced P5’s in over half their bouts

7- The MAC has the worst win percentage but the one win (Ohio stomping San Diego St) was a solid one.

8- CUSA has the best overall win % tied with FBS independents that went 2-1 with BYU and Army winning big and Nd losing big.

Since you mentioned that the Big XII wasn't favored in its bowls I thought I'd add that the ACC was only favored in 3 of the 11 bowl games (including the one that was cancelled - in which the ACC team was leading early on).

BTW, Texas looked very impressive in the Sugar Bowl.

Finally, I was surprised at how Kentucky was able to handle Penn State didn't see that coming.

UK defense no surprise. If you look at the offense it was a punt return, a 4th down gamble by psi in their territory, a couple of big plays and one good drive that lead to a field goal

(01-02-2019 03:29 PM)debragga Wrote:  The Sun Belt East division went 3-0, did any other divisions go undefeated?

Sun Belt West flamed out which coincidentally reflected how they played in the season

(01-03-2019 09:53 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 03:29 PM)debragga Wrote:  The Sun Belt East division went 3-0, did any other divisions go undefeated?

Sun Belt West flamed out which coincidentally reflected how they played in the season

Big 10 West went 4-1, opposite of what they did in the season. That was the biggest surprise to me.

(01-03-2019 10:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 09:53 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 03:29 PM)debragga Wrote:  The Sun Belt East division went 3-0, did any other divisions go undefeated?

Sun Belt West flamed out which coincidentally reflected how they played in the season

Big 10 West went 4-1, opposite of what they did in the season. That was the biggest surprise to me.

And that follows a 2017 season where the Big Ten West went 4-0 in bowls. Meaning the Big Ten West is 8-1 in bowls the last 2 seasons.

The Big Ten West suffers from a weak perception because the West never wins the Big Ten CCG. But most years it finishes nearly dead even in cross-division games, including going 10-11 in 2018. Which means it does not have as many great teams at the top, but has more decent teams than most fans realize.

(01-03-2019 11:18 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 10:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-03-2019 09:53 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 03:29 PM)debragga Wrote:  The Sun Belt East division went 3-0, did any other divisions go undefeated?

Sun Belt West flamed out which coincidentally reflected how they played in the season

Big 10 West went 4-1, opposite of what they did in the season. That was the biggest surprise to me.

And that follows a 2017 season where the Big Ten West went 4-0 in bowls. Meaning the Big Ten West is 8-1 in bowls the last 2 seasons.

The Big Ten West suffers from a weak perception because the West never wins the Big Ten CCG. But most years it finishes nearly dead even in cross-division games, including going 10-11 in 2018. Which means it does not have as many great teams at the top, but has more decent teams than most fans realize.

Well it also probably has to do with Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, and Michigan State having a ton of brand cachet that the West really doesn’t have outside of Nebraska and maybe Iowa or Wisconsin but those two don’t go nearly as deep with it as Michigan, tOSU, or PSU despite the Huskies probably matching it.

Also I don’t think the results against the eastern blue bloods have been as even as that stat implies. How many of those cross division wins and losses were against Maryland, Indiana, and Rutgers the last few years? In 2018 the West was
3-0 vs Rutgers
3-0 vs Indiana.
1-2 Vs Maryland


7-2 against those three but 3-9 against the top four with two coming against a down MSU and one being the Purdue upset of tOSU.

Honestly just removing Rutgers and Indiana 6-0 mark drops it to 4-11 which probably has a lot to do with perception as the games people notice are getting really one sided.

It also doesn’t help having some bad losses drag perception down. Division champ Northwestern losing to Akron while Wisconsin loses to BYU, Purdue loses to EMU, Illini losing to USF, and Nebraska loses to Troy had to do a bad shot to division perception.

The division has stepped up at bowl time though. I give them a ton of credit for knocking off Utah and Miss State. I do think that neither GT or Miami were particularly strong this year and were bowl eligible based on beating a lot of below average teams. Purdue and Auburn was a mismatch.

Iowa has a great defensive team though and is a more than difficult out than most realize. They didn’t win the division but they are the B1G Western team you probably want to face the least.