Frankly, I think there will be expansion to 8. With a few exceptions, the power of the bowls is waning. They cant sell tickets and more people are catching on that the bowl basically survive by ripping off fans and schools. I think there are some things that could be done to go to 8 and still throw a bone to key bowls like the Rose and Sugar. I think you do the first round on campus to keeep from fatiguing your traveling fans bases.

In a nod to the Sugar and Rose--I think you reseed after the first round. If there is a Pac12 and Big10 team still alive---they automatically go to the Rose. If a SEC and Big12 team is left, they are automatically paired in the Sugar. Thats the least you can do for those major bowls that actually do have value.

(01-05-2019 07:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 05:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 05:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 04:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 03:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  You are contradicting one of your common arguments, that ESPN is pulling the strings. Its been very clear that ESPN strongly prefers having wild cards. And whether they are pulling the strings or not, they DO pay the bills.

I'm not contradicting anything. I'm merely stating that Delany, and I'm sure with FOX backing, is pushing for a change in the priorities of the selection committee. ESPN is no longer able to ignore the corporate realities that FOX holds a boat load of Disney stock. In the present environment I think Delany stands a good chance of getting a portion of what he is likely asking for.

That doesn't alter the fact that ESPN has pulled the strings in the past with regard to realignment, bribed Texas to hang with them, and has generally fouled up a lot of conference plans with what they would and wouldn't pay for. Now the stage is set for a more equitable existence for FOX within this milieu. I expect there will be a great deal of mutual interest between ESPN and FOX in this new post Disney deal universe.

Fox wants maximum ratings too. Which means wildcards.

Hooey. FOX doesn't hold the CFP contract.

You're contradicting yourself again. ESPN wants wildcards then you say Fox is talking to the conferences. I point out that Fox would want the same thing and you are saying Fox doesn't have the contract.

I'm still not contradicting myself. If the SEC doesn't go along and suggests another tournament format ESPN will get on board or the SEC will sell the rights to it to somebody else.

Our contract with them is for T2 and T3 rights for the regular season. CBS owns T1 and the CCG.

The contract on the CFP expires in 6 years roughly. If we don't like the direction it is going we don't have to be a part of it. If we aren't a part of it good luck with your ratings and revenue. It's really as simple as that.

If we don't renew with the CFP contract we are free to create our own.

It's a fact that FOX currently has no contract rights to the CFP.

As to wildcards show me where wildcards equal better ratings. The semis stunk this year. The public doesn't want more blowouts. They want the real deal.

The ability to monetize our own baseball, basketball and football will in the end earn us the most money. We already put far more players into the NFL than any other conference. The nation knows where the value is even if you don't.

If the SEC got serious about this ESPN would have to get on board or lose all of our rights by 2033. If ESPN is even still the leader at that time.

Like it or not Football is going to become a very regional sport over the next few decades. The on field results already demonstrate this. Football country right now is the Big 10, SEC, and Big 12 areas. The PAC isn't invested and most of the Atlantic Coast really isn't either. Delany knows this. The future of college football will be a collaboration of the Big 10 and SEC or it will simply become a Southern sport. Because of this the SEC will not go along with things that are destructive to their ends because they read the tea leaves nationally as well as anyone and they know that Footballs future is in the Southeast and Southwest and that if the Northern Midwest wants to be a part there's enough talent to keep it strong in all three regions. And that if they aren't invested in that then we are best served acting in our own self interests.

Now if Texas and Oklahoma want to be a part of that then great. If not we will have enough schools between the football first schools of the ACC and the SEC to put a compelling and valuable product on the field and on the tube. In other words Bullet the SEC doesn't need the rest of the country to be successful financially or otherwise in football. We'll stay and play with the group as long as it is reasonable to do so. But when unreasonable demands are placed upon us we'll do our own thing.

Our fan bases care prohibitively more about playing more regional games, and don't really give a rat's behind about most of the other games. Local games fill our stadiums, our concession coffers, our restaurants, or hotels, and our highways every Friday and Saturday and Sunday morning. And every time that happens it's another 7 million in gate receipts and a lot of good will with the merchants. And TV will pay dearly for the T1 rights next time out.

And that buddy is the simple reality of the business end of SEC football.

(01-05-2019 08:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Frankly, I think there will be expansion to 8. With a few exceptions, the power of the bowls is waning. They cant sell tickets and more people are catching on that the bowl basically survive by ripping off fans and schools. I think there are some things that could be done to go to 8 and still throw a bone to key bowls like the Rose and Sugar. I think you do the first round on campus to keeep from fatiguing your traveling fans bases.

In a nod to the Sugar and Rose--I think you reseed after the first round. If there is a Pac12 and Big10 team still alive---they automatically go to the Rose. If a SEC and Big12 team is left, they are automatically paired in the Sugar. Thats the least you can do for those major bowls that actually do have value.

FtT's proposal of home semi-finals has real logistical challenges (preparing on short notice, especially on northern sites where they may have winterized their stadiums). But it is more friendly to the bowls. If you have quarters at the home sites, there are 4 top flight teams and fanbases that really aren't interested in bowling.

If you really want to save the bowl system (personally, I don't care as I think they leech money out of the schools-less than 10 pay more to the school than it costs), you need to do home semis or neutral site semis with the quarterfinals in the NYD bowls.

(01-05-2019 07:10 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 05:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 04:22 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 04:13 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Most fans dislike the big conferences 14 or fifteen.
Who cares if Alabama is in your conference if they hardly ever visit your stadium. Sixteen team conferences mean very few crossover games.

On the contrary: a 16-team conference with 4-team pods that rotate between two 8-team divisions will allow teams to play through their entire conference faster than is currently possible with a 14-team conference.

You can rotate pods with a 14 team conference but nobody does it. 4-3-4-3 and the 3s switch every year. You could play every team at least every other year with an 8 game schedule.

Pods failed with the WAC. Legends and Leaders worked poorly for the B1G. Geographical fixed divisions with a manageable number of teams make the most sense for the fans.

Yes, you can do it with 14-team conferences, but the scheduling is a lot messier than with 16 teams. It wasn't the pods that were the problem with the WAC, but rather the geography and the rapid expansion with schools of questionable value. And Legends and Leaders was a different matter, a fixed "zipper" alignment for competitive balance like the ACC has.

Its not messy at all. You do have the same issue you have with 4-4 team pods in that you have to figure out who to put together.

Use the Big 10 for an example. I'm just using this grouping to demonstrate the scheduling.
West-UNL, IA, MN, WI
East-UM, MSU, tOSU, RU
South-MD, PSU, IU
North-IL, NW, PU

Two years you have North-East and South-West
Two years you have South-East and North-West
You get two out of division games.
Over those 4 years, the East and West teams play each other home and away (2 games X 4 years=8 games against the other 4 teams)
The North and South play each other home and away and 2 play each other all 4 years. (2 games X 4 years= 8 games-2+2+4)

Every school has 3 teams 4 times and 10 teams 2 times for a total of 32 games (8 games X 4 years).

If you go to 9 games, you can have 5 teams you meet every year.

(01-05-2019 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 07:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 05:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 05:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 04:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I'm not contradicting anything. I'm merely stating that Delany, and I'm sure with FOX backing, is pushing for a change in the priorities of the selection committee. ESPN is no longer able to ignore the corporate realities that FOX holds a boat load of Disney stock. In the present environment I think Delany stands a good chance of getting a portion of what he is likely asking for.

That doesn't alter the fact that ESPN has pulled the strings in the past with regard to realignment, bribed Texas to hang with them, and has generally fouled up a lot of conference plans with what they would and wouldn't pay for. Now the stage is set for a more equitable existence for FOX within this milieu. I expect there will be a great deal of mutual interest between ESPN and FOX in this new post Disney deal universe.

Fox wants maximum ratings too. Which means wildcards.

Hooey. FOX doesn't hold the CFP contract.

You're contradicting yourself again. ESPN wants wildcards then you say Fox is talking to the conferences. I point out that Fox would want the same thing and you are saying Fox doesn't have the contract.

I'm still not contradicting myself. If the SEC doesn't go along and suggests another tournament format ESPN will get on board or the SEC will sell the rights to it to somebody else.

Our contract with them is for T2 and T3 rights for the regular season. CBS owns T1 and the CCG.

The contract on the CFP expires in 6 years roughly. If we don't like the direction it is going we don't have to be a part of it. If we aren't a part of it good luck with your ratings and revenue. It's really as simple as that.

If we don't renew with the CFP contract we are free to create our own.

It's a fact that FOX currently has no contract rights to the CFP.

As to wildcards show me where wildcards equal better ratings. The semis stunk this year. The public doesn't want more blowouts. They want the real deal.

The ability to monetize our own baseball, basketball and football will in the end earn us the most money. We already put far more players into the NFL than any other conference. The nation knows where the value is even if you don't.

If the SEC got serious about this ESPN would have to get on board or lose all of our rights by 2033. If ESPN is even still the leader at that time.

Like it or not Football is going to become a very regional sport over the next few decades. The on field results already demonstrate this. Football country right now is the Big 10, SEC, and Big 12 areas. The PAC isn't invested and most of the Atlantic Coast really isn't either. Delany knows this. The future of college football will be a collaboration of the Big 10 and SEC or it will simply become a Southern sport. Because of this the SEC will not go along with things that are destructive to their ends because they read the tea leaves nationally as well as anyone and they know that Footballs future is in the Southeast and Southwest and that if the Northern Midwest wants to be a part there's enough talent to keep it strong in all three regions. And that if they aren't invested in that then we are best served acting in our own self interests.

Now if Texas and Oklahoma want to be a part of that then great. If not we will have enough schools between the football first schools of the ACC and the SEC to put a compelling and valuable product on the field and on the tube. In other words Bullet the SEC doesn't need the rest of the country to be successful financially or otherwise in football. We'll stay and play with the group as long as it is reasonable to do so. But when unreasonable demands are placed upon us we'll do our own thing.

Our fan bases care prohibitively more about playing more regional games, and don't really give a rat's behind about most of the other games. Local games fill our stadiums, our concession coffers, our restaurants, or hotels, and our highways every Friday and Saturday and Sunday morning. And every time that happens it's another 7 million in gate receipts and a lot of good will with the merchants. And TV will pay dearly for the T1 rights next time out.

And that buddy is the simple reality of the business end of SEC football.

You overvalue what the SEC can do alone. You make Notre Dame fans sound modest.

(01-05-2019 10:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 07:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 05:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 05:46 PM)bullet Wrote:  Fox wants maximum ratings too. Which means wildcards.

Hooey. FOX doesn't hold the CFP contract.

You're contradicting yourself again. ESPN wants wildcards then you say Fox is talking to the conferences. I point out that Fox would want the same thing and you are saying Fox doesn't have the contract.

I'm still not contradicting myself. If the SEC doesn't go along and suggests another tournament format ESPN will get on board or the SEC will sell the rights to it to somebody else.

Our contract with them is for T2 and T3 rights for the regular season. CBS owns T1 and the CCG.

The contract on the CFP expires in 6 years roughly. If we don't like the direction it is going we don't have to be a part of it. If we aren't a part of it good luck with your ratings and revenue. It's really as simple as that.

If we don't renew with the CFP contract we are free to create our own.

It's a fact that FOX currently has no contract rights to the CFP.

As to wildcards show me where wildcards equal better ratings. The semis stunk this year. The public doesn't want more blowouts. They want the real deal.

The ability to monetize our own baseball, basketball and football will in the end earn us the most money. We already put far more players into the NFL than any other conference. The nation knows where the value is even if you don't.

If the SEC got serious about this ESPN would have to get on board or lose all of our rights by 2033. If ESPN is even still the leader at that time.

Like it or not Football is going to become a very regional sport over the next few decades. The on field results already demonstrate this. Football country right now is the Big 10, SEC, and Big 12 areas. The PAC isn't invested and most of the Atlantic Coast really isn't either. Delany knows this. The future of college football will be a collaboration of the Big 10 and SEC or it will simply become a Southern sport. Because of this the SEC will not go along with things that are destructive to their ends because they read the tea leaves nationally as well as anyone and they know that Footballs future is in the Southeast and Southwest and that if the Northern Midwest wants to be a part there's enough talent to keep it strong in all three regions. And that if they aren't invested in that then we are best served acting in our own self interests.

Now if Texas and Oklahoma want to be a part of that then great. If not we will have enough schools between the football first schools of the ACC and the SEC to put a compelling and valuable product on the field and on the tube. In other words Bullet the SEC doesn't need the rest of the country to be successful financially or otherwise in football. We'll stay and play with the group as long as it is reasonable to do so. But when unreasonable demands are placed upon us we'll do our own thing.

Our fan bases care prohibitively more about playing more regional games, and don't really give a rat's behind about most of the other games. Local games fill our stadiums, our concession coffers, our restaurants, or hotels, and our highways every Friday and Saturday and Sunday morning. And every time that happens it's another 7 million in gate receipts and a lot of good will with the merchants. And TV will pay dearly for the T1 rights next time out.

And that buddy is the simple reality of the business end of SEC football.

You overvalue what the SEC can do alone. You make Notre Dame fans sound modest.

Nope. I really don't. Most of us are pretty damned disgusted with the whole mess, NCAA included. The success we've had in the system has been great. But we aren't handicapping ourselves to hand out participation trophies to the losers. You never let somebody bluff you when you are holding a pat hand.

If the SEC wanted to flex their muscles and change the game they'd go to 24 with the Texlahoma 4 and 6 of their favorite ACC schools. This creates an entirely different paradigm by concentrating a massive amount of valuable content under one umbrella.

(01-05-2019 11:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the SEC wanted to flex their muscles and change the game they'd go to 24 with the Texlahoma 4 and 6 of their favorite ACC schools. This creates an entirely different paradigm by concentrating a massive amount of valuable content under one umbrella.

The Big 10 and SEC may become the keel to just that kind of vessel. But it's going to take time. It can not begin in part until 2023-4, but it can not be finished until 2037. Until then anything that is added to either conference will be planks in the hull. If it is decided at some point that two leagues aren't needed things will stop. So don't look for wholesale change. It'll most likely be two schools at a time. I would still be surprised to see a 4 team move.

(01-05-2019 02:43 PM)micahandme Wrote:  Most of us expect more realignment for Power5 when 2023 rolls around...and that makes me wonder what guys like Delany and Sankey are thinking when it comes to playoff expansion.

What would auto-bids mean for the Big Ten or SEC mean...if the conference was at 16 or 18 by 2024, that means that the Power 5 will look a lot more like the Power 4 by then?

If they gave out P5 auto-bids to the, let's say, Big 12...and the Big 12 dissolves by 2024, what in the world would the conference look like?

You know these guys are planning two steps ahead...so I think it'll be very telling to see what the Power Brokers talk about on Monday.

I do agree that if a wave of realignment hits before the CFP negotiations that it very well change the course of negotiations.

Especially if its something like the Texoma 4 to the PAC. That makes it a defacto P4. I know the XII can reload and maintain autonomy conference status but it would struggle to put its champ in the playoff and probably be reduced to a floater for its champ in the NY6.

If the G5 lose 4-6 top programs that would justify their continued setup for only the highest rated champ to get a NY6 bowl since some of the stronger programs are moving into the XII.

If there is no realignment, the powers may decide going to 8 would be more fair to get full P5 champ representation or even a G5 once in a while.

The CFP power brokers' ideal scenario for the playoff would probably see Texas and Oklahoma move to the PAC, Notre Dame move to the ACC...(and whatever other realignment is needed to make those moves work). Then, have the PAC and B1G champs meet in a semi-final Rose Bowl and the SEC and ACC champ meet in a semi-final Orange or Sugar Bowl.