With the WAC adding a football playing school with Dixie St. I think any opportunity for the MW or CUSA to split has disappeared now in which either one of those conferences would take the WAC's spot for the auto-bid into the NCAA tournament. Any new conference will never get an auto-bid unless there is an expansion of the tournament.

So it seems that any scenario of the MW or CUSA splitting to take the WAC's tourney spot has vanished. The opportunity now lies with the Big Sky to split as with FCS there isn't as big of a fuss compared to being FBS and part of the CFP split...etc.

My viewpoint seems that while having the MW as being the only other FBS conference in the western US with the PAC-12, it has some disadvantages too. The MW has no problems scheduling the PAC-12 schools OOC. But as we are going to find out officially soon, the MW losing a P5 bowl tie-in with the Vegas Bowl, there is no other conference with a traveling fan base to have a champs bowl against each other.
I had wonder or hoped that the MW realizing this would have the west division take over the WAC and with both conferences adding schools that there would be a champs bowl between the two.

Judging how quickly Dixie St has added scheduling series with Big Sky schools, it seems that a path for the WAC towards being a FCS conference is under way if more D2 football schools are willing to enter into D1.

I don't think this would affect any future splits at all.


And as I predicted, the Big Sky teams would welcome Dixie State as an OOC opponent.

It does show that an FCS Indy route can work - maybe nudge UTRGV into starting.

Tarleton State wants D1 as well. With th Lone Star Conference at 20 with UTT joining 2019/20 season, and UTD is doing a feasibility study to go D2. You got to wonder if other LSC Texas schools been contacted by the WAC to? 20 to 21 teams would be too many mouths too feed. Plus, how many D3 Texas schools want to join D2 and LSC as well like Sul Ross State and U. of Dallas?

Plus, Dixie State and several LSC schools could jump to be FBS in a shorter time since they could expand. Central Oklahoma could be on this list.

All it needs to be done is too play musical chairs. Several Big Sky schools could go FBS, and some of the Southland as well.

The time to use the WAC shell as a conference of convenience and maintain FBS status and a slice of BCS/CFP money was when the conference's only returning members were going to be NMSU, Seattle, and the soon to depart Denver and Idaho Teams. 6-8 C-USA or SBC programs could have taken the league over. Denver might have still seen itself out so you'd really only end up with 3 holdovers and Seattle and Idaho could be combined as travel partners.

GCU, Cal St-B'field, UVU, UTRGV, Chi St, UMKC, Cal Bapt, and Dixie St never get added.

C-USA could have spun some of their western members (UTEP, UTSA, Rice, UNT, LA Tech) into that group and maybe picked of Ark St and ULL to round it out.

C-USA keeps USM, UAB, MTSU, WKU, Marshall, ODU, Char, FIU, and FAU for 9 members or maybe picks off a 10th from the SBC.

NoDak, are you hacking accounts?

I don't think anyone in any conference actually even considered such a wacky plan in the first place.

(01-22-2019 09:24 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  NoDak, are you hacking accounts?

I don't think anyone in any conference actually even considered such a wacky plan in the first place.

I never said it was probable but I could see where it would have made a lot more sense back in 2011-2013 for the G5 to keep that 6th conference alive rather than consolidate themselves into the G5 plus a pair of refugees.

Note I'm talking past tense. As soon as Great West teams started entering the league it was inevitable that FBS WAC FB was dead.

(01-22-2019 09:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The time to use the WAC shell as a conference of convenience and maintain FBS status and a slice of BCS/CFP money was when the conference's only returning members were going to be NMSU, Seattle, and the soon to depart Denver and Idaho Teams. 6-8 C-USA or SBC programs could have taken the league over.

If anyone running CUSA schools at the time was actually thinking through these things, they just would have stopped themselves before adding NINE new schools to the conference within a year. If they had been smart then, no one would be talking about dividing an oversized conference in half now.

(01-22-2019 09:36 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 09:24 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  NoDak, are you hacking accounts?

I don't think anyone in any conference actually even considered such a wacky plan in the first place.

I never said it was probable but I could see where it would have made a lot more sense back in 2011-2013 for the G5 to keep that 6th conference alive rather than consolidate themselves into the G5 plus a pair of refugees.

Note I'm talking past tense. As soon as Great West teams started entering the league it was inevitable that FBS WAC FB was dead.

WAC had a chance in adding Lamar at the same time as UTSA and UTA. They could add Texas State next.

(01-22-2019 09:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 09:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The time to use the WAC shell as a conference of convenience and maintain FBS status and a slice of BCS/CFP money was when the conference's only returning members were going to be NMSU, Seattle, and the soon to depart Denver and Idaho Teams. 6-8 C-USA or SBC programs could have taken the league over.

If anyone running CUSA schools at the time was actually thinking through these things, they just would have stopped themselves before adding NINE new schools to the conference within a year. If they had been smart then, no one would be talking about dividing an oversized conference in half now.

C-USA was in pure panic mode and were adding schools even faster than they were leaving leading to a bloated compromise league where an eastern school got added for every western school. If UTEP, Rice, USM, UAB, and Marshall knew they'd be the last 5 left of C-USA 2.0 the league would look nothing like it does now.

The WAC, C-USA, and SBC were way too busy trying to outmaneuver eachother to think about what made sense in the long run.

Ultimately, the best course of action would have been for all 3 leagues to remain solvent with 10 FB schools apiece. The same goes for the MWC, which after the Big 12 Title Game legislation really didn't need SJSU or Utah St. The MAC started this cycle with 12 and could have either ended with the same 12 they began with or added 2.

Yep, if the Big 12-2 had gotten its act together soon enough, we could be feelin so fly like a G6:

MWC - no San Jose State, Utah State
CUSA - no UTSA, Louisiana Tech, Old Dominion, Charlotte
WAC - keeps NMSU, Idaho
SBC - no Texas State, adds Charlotte and Old Dominion, no Coastal Carolina

The WAC’s football core would be this group:
Idaho
Utah State
San Jose State
New Mexico State
Texas State
UTSA
Louisiana Tech

Not great, but lots of options. Denver and Seattle stay as non-football members, and if you get three more Central Time Zone schools, you have something that works well for both sides in Olympic sports.

(01-22-2019 09:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Tarleton State wants D1 as well. With th Lone Star Conference at 20 with UTT joining 2019/20 season, and UTD is doing a feasibility study to go D2. You got to wonder if other LSC Texas schools been contacted by the WAC to? 20 to 21 teams would be too many mouths too feed. Plus, how many D3 Texas schools want to join D2 and LSC as well like Sul Ross State and U. of Dallas?

Plus, Dixie State and several LSC schools could jump to be FBS in a shorter time since they could expand. Central Oklahoma could be on this list.

All it needs to be done is too play musical chairs. Several Big Sky schools could go FBS, and some of the Southland as well.

Ok David St, I’m not going to be quite as dismissive as AZCats, but I will say this: institutions/schools that go Division 3 rarely, if ever, want to go to D2 or higher. Basically, D3 is like an “Ivy League” of sorts. Movement just doesn’t happen in that division. I would look at it this way: I would wager $100 that your Arkansas Tech Wonderboys & Golden Suns would move up to Division I before any D3 team moves up at all. Now NAIA is another story. The NAIA has lost quite a few schools to Division 2, so I can see movement from there.

(01-22-2019 09:52 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 09:36 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 09:24 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  NoDak, are you hacking accounts?

I don't think anyone in any conference actually even considered such a wacky plan in the first place.

I never said it was probable but I could see where it would have made a lot more sense back in 2011-2013 for the G5 to keep that 6th conference alive rather than consolidate themselves into the G5 plus a pair of refugees.

Note I'm talking past tense. As soon as Great West teams started entering the league it was inevitable that FBS WAC FB was dead.

WAC had a chance in adding Lamar at the same time as UTSA and UTA. They could add Texas State next.

Why would TXST go back to the WAC?

(01-22-2019 09:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Tarleton State wants D1 as well. With th Lone Star Conference at 20 with UTT joining 2019/20 season, and UTD is doing a feasibility study to go D2. You got to wonder if other LSC Texas schools been contacted by the WAC to? 20 to 21 teams would be too many mouths too feed. Plus, how many D3 Texas schools want to join D2 and LSC as well like Sul Ross State and U. of Dallas?

Plus, Dixie State and several LSC schools could jump to be FBS in a shorter time since they could expand. Central Oklahoma could be on this list.

All it needs to be done is too play musical chairs. Several Big Sky schools could go FBS, and some of the Southland as well.

20+ member is too big for the Lone Star. The league has already announced that it will be three divisions. Which seems problematic especially since not everyone sponsors the same sports (some offer football, Texas Woman's doesnt offer mens sports).



For those of you looking at the map for potential WAC members. Each has a student population greater that 10,000, recent facility improvements, and budgets currently in the $9m range.
Tarleton (expressed D1 interest) - Top left corner of GREEN section
West Texas A&M - Top right Yellow section
Angelo State (previous D1 study) - Bottom right Yellow section
Texas A&M Commerce - Bottom BLUE section



FBS is a bit of a push for the the Lone Star Conference schools. The stadiums, student population, and funding are not there. FCS is doable

(01-23-2019 12:57 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 09:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Tarleton State wants D1 as well. With th Lone Star Conference at 20 with UTT joining 2019/20 season, and UTD is doing a feasibility study to go D2. You got to wonder if other LSC Texas schools been contacted by the WAC to? 20 to 21 teams would be too many mouths too feed. Plus, how many D3 Texas schools want to join D2 and LSC as well like Sul Ross State and U. of Dallas?

Plus, Dixie State and several LSC schools could jump to be FBS in a shorter time since they could expand. Central Oklahoma could be on this list.

All it needs to be done is too play musical chairs. Several Big Sky schools could go FBS, and some of the Southland as well.

Ok David St, I’m not going to be quite as dismissive as AZCats, but I will say this: institutions/schools that go Division 3 rarely, if ever, want to go to D2 or higher. Basically, D3 is like an “Ivy League” of sorts. Movement just doesn’t happen in that division. I would look at it this way: I would wager $100 that your Arkansas Tech Wonderboys & Golden Suns would move up to Division I before any D3 team moves up at all. Now NAIA is another story. The NAIA has lost quite a few schools to Division 2, so I can see movement from there.

Not all schools are Ivy League type at the D3 levels. You did have D3 schools moved up to D2 from G3 in recent years.

Mississippi College, McMurry (decided to stop their transition process) Frostburg State and UT-Tyler moved from or moving from D3 in recent years. UT-Dallas is looking to go D2 as well.

If the G6 would have known they were only going to need 10 teams to host a conference title then Tulsa and Tulane stay in C-USA and Utah St and SJSU stay in the WAC:

C-USA: UTEP, Rice, UAB, USM, Marshall, Tulane, Tulsa, UNT, MTSU, UTSA

SBC: FAU, FIU, Troy, USA, WKU, ULL, ULM, Ark St, GA St, Charlotte (non-FB UALR)

WAC: Idaho, SJSU, Utah St, NMSU, Texas St, LA Tech (non-FB Denver, Seattle, UTA)

The WAC still needs at least 2 more FB programs. If they could lure away Ark St and ULL they'd be set.

ODU, App St, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina likely are all still FCS unless SBC schools defect to the WAC.

(01-23-2019 04:46 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(01-22-2019 09:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Tarleton State wants D1 as well. With th Lone Star Conference at 20 with UTT joining 2019/20 season, and UTD is doing a feasibility study to go D2. You got to wonder if other LSC Texas schools been contacted by the WAC to? 20 to 21 teams would be too many mouths too feed. Plus, how many D3 Texas schools want to join D2 and LSC as well like Sul Ross State and U. of Dallas?

Plus, Dixie State and several LSC schools could jump to be FBS in a shorter time since they could expand. Central Oklahoma could be on this list.

All it needs to be done is too play musical chairs. Several Big Sky schools could go FBS, and some of the Southland as well.

20+ member is too big for the Lone Star. The league has already announced that it will be three divisions. Which seems problematic especially since not everyone sponsors the same sports (some offer football, Texas Woman's doesnt offer mens sports).



For those of you looking at the map for potential WAC members. Each has a student population greater that 10,000, recent facility improvements, and budgets currently in the $9m range.
Tarleton (expressed D1 interest) - Top left corner of GREEN section
West Texas A&M - Top right Yellow section
Angelo State (previous D1 study) - Bottom right Yellow section
Texas A&M Commerce - Bottom BLUE section



FBS is a bit of a push for the the Lone Star Conference schools. The stadiums, student population, and funding are not there. FCS is doable

West Texas A&M 20,000 seat off campus stadium. Building a brand new on campus stadium. Was a former 1A or FBS independent in football with the rest of the sports in MVC. Was a former conference mates with New Mexico State.

UTPB plays close to a 20,000 seat stadium. Needs to grow student body, but a hotbed for high school football players.

Texas A&M-Kingsville plays in a 15,000 seat stadium.

Midwestern State plays in a 14,000 seat stadium.

Texas A&M-Commerce plays in a 13,500 seat stadium.

McNeese State 17,410 seats

Lamar 16,000 seats

SFAU 14,575 seats

Sam Houston State 12,593 seats.

Central Oklahoma 10,000 seats.

Colorado Mesa 8000 seats.

Dixie State 10,000 seats, but plans to go 15,000 +

Azusa Pacific 10,000 seats, but the stadium is home for Citrus College in Glendora. They are not D1 ready yet unless they build their own on-campus stadium.

Those schools in less than 10 years could be FBS ready while others are ready now. All they need are sugar daddies who will donate money to build to be D1 ready.

(01-22-2019 09:03 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  I don't think this would affect any future splits at all.


And as I predicted, the Big Sky teams would welcome Dixie State as an OOC opponent.

It does show that an FCS Indy route can work - maybe nudge UTRGV into starting.

UT-RGV wants FBS or nothing. Their study showed FBS has some chance of success, FCS would only result in higher costs without much benefit. Also SLC officials, reported by the then associate commissioner, talked with RGV and came away with the clear impression they were FBS or bust and the SLC would not work for RGV. The FBS path requires conference affiliation/invite and none is likely. (They don't have Liberty's political and legal heft nor it's money, so Independence is not an option.) Hence they remain in the WAC.

(01-23-2019 05:41 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the G6 would have known they were only going to need 10 teams to host a conference title then Tulsa and Tulane stay in C-USA and Utah St and SJSU stay in the WAC:

C-USA: UTEP, Rice, UAB, USM, Marshall, Tulane, Tulsa, UNT, MTSU, UTSA

SBC: FAU, FIU, Troy, USA, WKU, ULL, ULM, Ark St, GA St, Charlotte (non-FB UALR)

WAC: Idaho, SJSU, Utah St, NMSU, Texas St, LA Tech (non-FB Denver, Seattle, UTA)

The WAC still needs at least 2 more FB programs. If they could lure away Ark St and ULL they'd be set.

ODU, App St, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina likely are all still FCS unless SBC schools defect to the WAC.

To the bold: That was never going to happen.

(01-22-2019 10:39 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Yep, if the Big 12-2 had gotten its act together soon enough, we could be feelin so fly like a G6:

MWC - no San Jose State, Utah State
CUSA - no UTSA, Louisiana Tech, Old Dominion, Charlotte
WAC - keeps NMSU, Idaho
SBC - no Texas State, adds Charlotte and Old Dominion, no Coastal Carolina

The WAC’s football core would be this group:
Idaho
Utah State
San Jose State
New Mexico State
Texas State
UTSA
Louisiana Tech

Not great, but lots of options. Denver and Seattle stay as non-football members, and if you get three more Central Time Zone schools, you have something that works well for both sides in Olympic sports.

Quite an awful group actually

(01-23-2019 05:41 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the G6 would have known they were only going to need 10 teams to host a conference title then Tulsa and Tulane stay in C-USA and Utah St and SJSU stay in the WAC:

C-USA: UTEP, Rice, UAB, USM, Marshall, Tulane, Tulsa, UNT, MTSU, UTSA

SBC: FAU, FIU, Troy, USA, WKU, ULL, ULM, Ark St, GA St, Charlotte (non-FB UALR)

WAC: Idaho, SJSU, Utah St, NMSU, Texas St, LA Tech (non-FB Denver, Seattle, UTA)

The WAC still needs at least 2 more FB programs. If they could lure away Ark St and ULL they'd be set.

ODU, App St, Georgia Southern, and Coastal Carolina likely are all still FCS unless SBC schools defect to the WAC.

Utah State is not leaving the MWC for that mess. geez