(02-17-2019 04:25 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 04:04 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 04:00 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 03:51 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I have a weird feeling that Houston and Cincinnati will be joining the Big 12 North with ISU, KSU, KU & WV. Houston’s incredible money out they butts moves (coach and Arena) and Cincinnati just making too much sense adds to the crickets coming from the AAC espn negotiations right now lead me to this idea. Somethings rotten in Denmark

Ha! Nice try, but it won't happen. The Big12 (Texas & Oklahoma) are not going to expand the conference.

Exactly. Everything out of Austin is no need to expand

Good to see a good David post on a slow day

In all honesty, I think Texas and OU regret adding TCU. Even being a small private school, they have managed to funnel away some talent that would normally go to the Big 2. They probably wish they had awarded that spot to Cincinnati when WV was added. That move would have cut in to the Big10 market, much like A&M did for the SEC. And, adding Cincy would have helped preserve more top Texas talent for UT & OU.

I can't see them ever agreeing to add Houston with their size and resources. Houston needs to focus on building their program to the UCF/Boise level, and hope something shacks up the status quo among the P5's.

I don't disagree, but consider the context of the move at the time. With the SEC "breaking into" Texas through A&M, and the Big East, still with a seat at the major table, getting TCU off a freshly disposed "new major" threat of the then-MWC, I always saw the TCU grab not as "the next non-major standing in line" (although, they probably were when it came to football), but as a way for the Big XII to keep its Texas turf stocked and relatively exclusive to itself.

It wasn't a bad move. But, yeah, I could see some buyer's remorse. Especially after the Big East unwound itself not terribly long thereafter anyhow. Like, if the Big XII took Louisville or Cincinnati with West Virginia then...what *really* happens to the Big East? TCU doesn't help the conference keep its spot at the table.

(02-17-2019 06:21 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  I think the strongest G5 programs from across the nation will form a new conference of 10 to 12 teams. It would make sense that this new league would develop near the time when the next contract for playoff payouts and bowl ties come up around 2025. That means athletic departments have about 5 years to position their programs to be included in talks for this new elite G5 conference. Basically, they have to do what Houston is doing. This new elite G5 conference will offer ESPN high quality games in all time zones, and be more valuable than the current AAC. Houston would certainly be among the programs in it. What do you think?

This makes a lot of sense. I think the disparity in money is getting so enormous now (see UConn) that "the best of the rest" might be forced into doing something drastic before the ship sails away completely. They would end up with less money that the P5 but possibly far more money that if they stayed in a G5. I don't know how that works legally, but any contract a man writes there is usually a way to end it.

Maybe something like:
AAC: Houston, Cincinnati, UConn, UCF, USF, Memphis
MWC: Fresno, San Diego State, Utah State, Boise, Colorado State
Service Academies: Army, Navy, Air Force

*If Army & Navy are football only, maybe bring in Wichita for Olympic sports? U Mass? Gonzaga?

(02-17-2019 09:53 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 06:21 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  I think the strongest G5 programs from across the nation will form a new conference of 10 to 12 teams. It would make sense that this new league would develop near the time when the next contract for playoff payouts and bowl ties come up around 2025. That means athletic departments have about 5 years to position their programs to be included in talks for this new elite G5 conference. Basically, they have to do what Houston is doing. This new elite G5 conference will offer ESPN high quality games in all time zones, and be more valuable than the current AAC. Houston would certainly be among the programs in it. What do you think?

This makes a lot of sense. I think the disparity in money is getting so enormous now (see UConn) that "the best of the rest" might be forced into doing something drastic before the ship sails away completely. They would end up with less money that the P5 but possibly far more money that if they stayed in a G5. I don't know how that works legally, but any contract a man writes there is usually a way to end it.

Maybe something like:
AAC: Houston, Cincinnati, UConn, UCF, USF, Memphis
MWC: Fresno, San Diego State, Utah State, Boise, Colorado State
Service Academies: Army, Navy, Air Force

*If Army & Navy are football only, maybe bring in Wichita for Olympic sports? U Mass? Gonzaga?

I think we're more likely to see a split between the P5 and G5 than something like this.

(02-17-2019 09:53 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 06:21 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  I think the strongest G5 programs from across the nation will form a new conference of 10 to 12 teams. It would make sense that this new league would develop near the time when the next contract for playoff payouts and bowl ties come up around 2025. That means athletic departments have about 5 years to position their programs to be included in talks for this new elite G5 conference. Basically, they have to do what Houston is doing. This new elite G5 conference will offer ESPN high quality games in all time zones, and be more valuable than the current AAC. Houston would certainly be among the programs in it. What do you think?

This makes a lot of sense. I think the disparity in money is getting so enormous now (see UConn) that "the best of the rest" might be forced into doing something drastic before the ship sails away completely. They would end up with less money that the P5 but possibly far more money that if they stayed in a G5. I don't know how that works legally, but any contract a man writes there is usually a way to end it.

Maybe something like:
AAC: Houston, Cincinnati, UConn, UCF, USF, Memphis
MWC: Fresno, San Diego State, Utah State, Boise, Colorado State
Service Academies: Army, Navy, Air Force

*If Army & Navy are football only, maybe bring in Wichita for Olympic sports? U Mass? Gonzaga?

I like the programs programs in bold that you have included, but the others may not make the cut. I think it will take a combination of on field success, funding, fan support, media market support, facilities, institutional leadership, and university size. Utah State doesn't seem to have the size or location to garner an invitation. UConn could relocate to a more basketball centered conference, and place less focus on their struggling football program that is sucking up tons of money. Colorado State hasn't won more than 7 games in a season over the last 3 years, and only posted 3 wins last season. There will probably bigger universities with more success, and just as much funding and infrastructure, to chose from. And the service academies always an uncertainty. Navy would be the most likely to join. I think you have 8 or 9 solid programs, and I think there are 3 or 4 spots still open for whichever programs can step up and claim them by 2023. That gives this new group 2 years to negotiate their portion of the next playoff payout, and bowl ties.

(02-17-2019 10:07 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 09:53 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 06:21 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  I think the strongest G5 programs from across the nation will form a new conference of 10 to 12 teams. It would make sense that this new league would develop near the time when the next contract for playoff payouts and bowl ties come up around 2025. That means athletic departments have about 5 years to position their programs to be included in talks for this new elite G5 conference. Basically, they have to do what Houston is doing. This new elite G5 conference will offer ESPN high quality games in all time zones, and be more valuable than the current AAC. Houston would certainly be among the programs in it. What do you think?

This makes a lot of sense. I think the disparity in money is getting so enormous now (see UConn) that "the best of the rest" might be forced into doing something drastic before the ship sails away completely. They would end up with less money that the P5 but possibly far more money that if they stayed in a G5. I don't know how that works legally, but any contract a man writes there is usually a way to end it.

Maybe something like:
AAC: Houston, Cincinnati, UConn, UCF, USF, Memphis
MWC: Fresno, San Diego State, Utah State, Boise, Colorado State
Service Academies: Army, Navy, Air Force

*If Army & Navy are football only, maybe bring in Wichita for Olympic sports? U Mass? Gonzaga?

I think we're more likely to see a split between the P5 and G5 than something like this.

I think it is about a 50/50 proposition right now. I don't think the P5's are happy with the continued growth of the FBS division, or sharing the playoff money. A clear separation from the G5 would certainly generate lawsuits, so they will probably choose another rout.

For years they have edged G5s out of bowl ties with their P5 programs. I think once they eliminate all of these P5/G5 bowl ties except the access bowl, they will simple pass conference bylaws that place certain criteria on scheduling, and places a higher value on scheduling OOC games with other P5s. They will say it is a matter of schedule strength as they try to ensure their conference a spot in the playoff, and not an attempt to exclude the G5s. So many G5 programs are hooked on those body-bag games, and depend on them to make ends meet, as they run up debt trying to build facilities. If those games dry up, and there is no revenue to take it's place, and too much debt is on the books, they will have to make some hard choices. When this occurs, the FBS will likely contract at least a little. This reduction in members of G5 conferences would open the door to a best of the G5 league.

Cincy and UH are going nowhere.

Houston gets in when the Big 12 leaders get some balls and boot the embarrassment that Baylor brought onto the conference. I would make them become a program like Rice. New Mexico, TCU, Houston and BYU was the number choices for the formation of the Big 12, but politics in Texas got them in.

(02-17-2019 04:01 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 03:57 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Any evidence beyond a feeling? I’m all for speculation but just curious. The next question is whether the American backfills and I think not. They can do a CCG with 10. Anyone else may dilute the conference brand except for Army (football) + either Dayton or VCU or Saint Louis. They could just choose to add a non-football member to go to a clean 20-game round robin. I think Dayton would be the school.

Silence of tv negotiations after HUGE talk from Aresco, Memphis AD etc and things I’m hearing out of Houston. Houston is putting in everything on this gamble to get into the big 12. All their chips. Cincinnati fits the profile and has WV’s support.

I don't believe we have WVU's support. They hated the fact we were in the Big East and when we started beating them and winning the conference in football 2008 and 2009 they couldn't take it anymore. The fact they have yet to schedule us in any sport (major revenue or Olympic sports) is telling given the general proximity of the schools (300 miles).

(02-18-2019 08:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Houston gets in when the Big 12 leaders get some balls and boot the embarrassment that Baylor brought onto the conference. I would make them become a program like Rice. New Mexico, TCU, Houston and BYU was the number choices for the formation of the Big 12, but politics in Texas got them in.

Houston was initially rumored instead of Baylor, but TCU was never a favorite. BYU and New Mexico were mentioned as possibilities to 14 after the conference decided not to do a full merge with the SWC, but before they had an official name. LSU and Arkansas were also mentioned, so there ya go.

(02-17-2019 04:45 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Cincinnati with two basketball titles academics and facilities at P5 level
Houston P5 history and two final fours facilities and academics that make the cut.
UCF with facilities and academics market and recruiting advantage.
Colorado St and SDSU would be next along with Connecticut .

Access Bowl Houston 1-0
UCF 1-1

BSU and WMU the other two Access bowl spots

Let's not go too far with the Cincy academics.

(02-17-2019 06:21 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 05:15 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  UH will never play in the Big 12 as long as UT is in it.

UT and OU will not leave the Big12 unless they can negotiate a deal where they will be the controlling voice of whatever conference they are joining, and the PAC, BIG10, SEC, and ACC would never allow that. So, UT and OU will continue to hold together the Big12. It is their best option. Together, they hold more power within their conference then any other two schools in any of the other power conferences. And, under this framework, they have a greater likelihood of landing a playoff spot. There is noe logical reason for them to relocate to another power conference. And, there is no logical reason for them to expand the Big12.

I think the best and only real option for Houston is to continue winning, developing facilities, financial resources, and community and fan support.

The AAC is the strongest G5 conference, but not the best possible collection of G5 programs. In it's current form, I think the AAC has too much dead weight at the bottom. In time, I think the strongest G5 programs from across the nation will form a new conference of 10 to 12 teams. It would make sense that this new league would develop near the time when the next contract for playoff payouts and bowl ties come up around 2025. That means athletic departments have about 5 years to position their programs to be included in talks for this new elite G5 conference. Basically, they have to do what Houston is doing. This new elite G5 conference will offer ESPN high quality games in all time zones, and be more valuable than the current AAC. Houston would certainly be among the programs in it. What do you think?

Absolutely right but the other 4 conferences should exclude the Big 12 from the CFP during the next negotiation. That way they don't need to worry about a 2 team conference.

(02-18-2019 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 08:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Houston gets in when the Big 12 leaders get some balls and boot the embarrassment that Baylor brought onto the conference. I would make them become a program like Rice. New Mexico, TCU, Houston and BYU was the number choices for the formation of the Big 12, but politics in Texas got them in.

Houston was initially rumored instead of Baylor, but TCU was never a favorite. BYU and New Mexico were mentioned as possibilities to 14 after the conference decided not to do a full merge with the SWC, but before they had an official name. LSU and Arkansas were also mentioned, so there ya go.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2016...swc-merger

Both of you are wrong. Only OU's Castiglione mentioned Houston as a potential member. The Big 8 wanted to merge with the 8 schools from the SWC but ESPN said no. ESPN only wanted 4 SWC schools and I don't recall any mention of BYU or New Mexico.

Quote:Chuck Neinas, Big Eight commissioner from 1971–80, executive director of the CFA from 1980–97: ESPN did not want all the members. They wanted eight from the Big Eight and they'd take four from the Southwest Conference. Obviously, the two they wanted most were Texas and Texas A&M. I received a call from Loren Matthews, who was a key executive with ESPN with whom I had developed a good relationship. And Loren told me, he said, "Here's my problem. We want the Big Eight, but we don't want all of the Southwest Conference." I said, "Well, just let me make some phone calls, and I'm sure they'll get back to you." So I called DeLoss Dodds at Texas, Donnie Duncan at Oklahoma and Bill Byrne at Nebraska, and the rest is history.

According to UT's Chancellor Cunningham, UT, A&M and Texas Tech were safely in the new conference. The last spot was between Baylor and TCU

Quote:Cunningham: A&M and Texas were easy, and Texas Tech had the third-best attendance. Then we came down to the fourth school, and that was Baylor versus TCU. When you really looked at the hard data, Baylor was the better choice. They had better attendance and better records. When I called the Baylor president, he was not in, and I spoke with his wife. His wife told me that he was at a prayer meeting, and I said, "I now believe in prayer more than ever."

(02-18-2019 12:02 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 06:21 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 05:15 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  UH will never play in the Big 12 as long as UT is in it.

UT and OU will not leave the Big12 unless they can negotiate a deal where they will be the controlling voice of whatever conference they are joining, and the PAC, BIG10, SEC, and ACC would never allow that. So, UT and OU will continue to hold together the Big12. It is their best option. Together, they hold more power within their conference then any other two schools in any of the other power conferences. And, under this framework, they have a greater likelihood of landing a playoff spot. There is noe logical reason for them to relocate to another power conference. And, there is no logical reason for them to expand the Big12.

I think the best and only real option for Houston is to continue winning, developing facilities, financial resources, and community and fan support.

The AAC is the strongest G5 conference, but not the best possible collection of G5 programs. In it's current form, I think the AAC has too much dead weight at the bottom. In time, I think the strongest G5 programs from across the nation will form a new conference of 10 to 12 teams. It would make sense that this new league would develop near the time when the next contract for playoff payouts and bowl ties come up around 2025. That means athletic departments have about 5 years to position their programs to be included in talks for this new elite G5 conference. Basically, they have to do what Houston is doing. This new elite G5 conference will offer ESPN high quality games in all time zones, and be more valuable than the current AAC. Houston would certainly be among the programs in it. What do you think?

Absolutely right but the other 4 conferences should exclude the Big 12 from the CFP during the next negotiation. That way they don't need to worry about na 2 team conference.

That would be the best for the other power conferences, but there is a problem....

They have no grounds to exclude the Big 12 when the PAC is a weaker conference. The PAC struggles to place a team in the playoff. In fact, the only bowl match-up between the two conferences resulted in #10 ranked, 11-2, Washington State barely edged out an unranked 8-5 Iowa State team. I just don't think the Big 12 can get excluded under the current conditions.

(02-18-2019 06:47 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 08:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Houston gets in when the Big 12 leaders get some balls and boot the embarrassment that Baylor brought onto the conference. I would make them become a program like Rice. New Mexico, TCU, Houston and BYU was the number choices for the formation of the Big 12, but politics in Texas got them in.

Houston was initially rumored instead of Baylor, but TCU was never a favorite. BYU and New Mexico were mentioned as possibilities to 14 after the conference decided not to do a full merge with the SWC, but before they had an official name. LSU and Arkansas were also mentioned, so there ya go.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2016...swc-merger

Both of you are wrong. Only OU's Castiglione mentioned Houston as a potential member. The Big 8 wanted to merge with the 8 schools from the SWC but ESPN said no. ESPN only wanted 4 SWC schools and I don't recall any mention of BYU or New Mexico.

Quote:Chuck Neinas, Big Eight commissioner from 1971–80, executive director of the CFA from 1980–97: ESPN did not want all the members. They wanted eight from the Big Eight and they'd take four from the Southwest Conference. Obviously, the two they wanted most were Texas and Texas A&M. I received a call from Loren Matthews, who was a key executive with ESPN with whom I had developed a good relationship. And Loren told me, he said, "Here's my problem. We want the Big Eight, but we don't want all of the Southwest Conference." I said, "Well, just let me make some phone calls, and I'm sure they'll get back to you." So I called DeLoss Dodds at Texas, Donnie Duncan at Oklahoma and Bill Byrne at Nebraska, and the rest is history.

According to UT's Chancellor Cunningham, UT, A&M and Texas Tech were safely in the new conference. The last spot was between Baylor and TCU

Quote:Cunningham: A&M and Texas were easy, and Texas Tech had the third-best attendance. Then we came down to the fourth school, and that was Baylor versus TCU. When you really looked at the hard data, Baylor was the better choice. They had better attendance and better records. When I called the Baylor president, he was not in, and I spoke with his wife. His wife told me that he was at a prayer meeting, and I said, "I now believe in prayer more than ever."

Baylor and Texas Tech were never in the plans for the Big 12. They were politically motivated additions. Governor Ann "Maw" Richards was a Baylor alum, and Lt. Governor Bob Bullock was a Texas Tech grad. Those two were not going to let Texas and A&M (the two largest public universities in Texas), abandon their alma maters. Had those two not been in charge of Texas at the time of the Big 12's birth, Baylor and Texas Tech would have also spent the past 20+ years struggling for relevance, like TCU, Houston, SMU, and Rice.

Ann Richards
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Richards

Bob Bullock
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Bullock

(02-18-2019 11:53 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 04:45 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Cincinnati with two basketball titles academics and facilities at P5 level
Houston P5 history and two final fours facilities and academics that make the cut.
UCF with facilities and academics market and recruiting advantage.
Colorado St and SDSU would be next along with Connecticut .

Access Bowl Houston 1-0
UCF 1-1

BSU and WMU the other two Access bowl spots

Let's not go too far with the Cincy academics.

UCF is actually 2-1. They beat Baylor in 2014 and Auburn 2018 and barely lost to LSU without their QB.

(02-18-2019 07:23 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 06:47 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 08:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Houston gets in when the Big 12 leaders get some balls and boot the embarrassment that Baylor brought onto the conference. I would make them become a program like Rice. New Mexico, TCU, Houston and BYU was the number choices for the formation of the Big 12, but politics in Texas got them in.

Houston was initially rumored instead of Baylor, but TCU was never a favorite. BYU and New Mexico were mentioned as possibilities to 14 after the conference decided not to do a full merge with the SWC, but before they had an official name. LSU and Arkansas were also mentioned, so there ya go.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2016...swc-merger

Both of you are wrong. Only OU's Castiglione mentioned Houston as a potential member. The Big 8 wanted to merge with the 8 schools from the SWC but ESPN said no. ESPN only wanted 4 SWC schools and I don't recall any mention of BYU or New Mexico.

Quote:Chuck Neinas, Big Eight commissioner from 1971–80, executive director of the CFA from 1980–97: ESPN did not want all the members. They wanted eight from the Big Eight and they'd take four from the Southwest Conference. Obviously, the two they wanted most were Texas and Texas A&M. I received a call from Loren Matthews, who was a key executive with ESPN with whom I had developed a good relationship. And Loren told me, he said, "Here's my problem. We want the Big Eight, but we don't want all of the Southwest Conference." I said, "Well, just let me make some phone calls, and I'm sure they'll get back to you." So I called DeLoss Dodds at Texas, Donnie Duncan at Oklahoma and Bill Byrne at Nebraska, and the rest is history.

According to UT's Chancellor Cunningham, UT, A&M and Texas Tech were safely in the new conference. The last spot was between Baylor and TCU

Quote:Cunningham: A&M and Texas were easy, and Texas Tech had the third-best attendance. Then we came down to the fourth school, and that was Baylor versus TCU. When you really looked at the hard data, Baylor was the better choice. They had better attendance and better records. When I called the Baylor president, he was not in, and I spoke with his wife. His wife told me that he was at a prayer meeting, and I said, "I now believe in prayer more than ever."

Baylor and Texas Tech were never in the plans for the Big 12. They were politically motivated additions. Governor Ann "Maw" Richards was a Baylor alum, and Lt. Governor Bob Bullock was a Texas Tech grad. Those two were not going to let Texas and A&M (the two largest public universities in Texas), abandon their alma maters. Had those two not been in charge of Texas at the time of the Big 12's birth, Baylor and Texas Tech would have also spent the past 20+ years struggling for relevance, like TCU, Houston, SMU, and Rice.

Ann Richards
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Richards

Bob Bullock
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Bullock

You are free to think what you want but Texas Tech made logical sense as the 3rd option to join the Big 12. If you want to argue about Baylor, TCU or UH, be my guest but Texas Tech clearly belonged in the Big 12.

Just curious why a North Texas fan cares 1 way or the other? I think North Texas needs to worry about North Texas.

(02-17-2019 04:25 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 04:04 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 04:00 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(02-17-2019 03:51 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I have a weird feeling that Houston and Cincinnati will be joining the Big 12 North with ISU, KSU, KU & WV. Houston’s incredible money out they butts moves (coach and Arena) and Cincinnati just making too much sense adds to the crickets coming from the AAC espn negotiations right now lead me to this idea. Somethings rotten in Denmark

Ha! Nice try, but it won't happen. The Big12 (Texas & Oklahoma) are not going to expand the conference.

Exactly. Everything out of Austin is no need to expand

Good to see a good David post on a slow day

In all honesty, I think Texas and OU regret adding TCU. Even being a small private school, they have managed to funnel away some talent that would normally go to the Big 2. They probably wish they had awarded that spot to Cincinnati when WV was added. That move would have cut in to the Big10 market, much like A&M did for the SEC. And, adding Cincy would have helped preserve more top Texas talent for UT & OU.

I can't see them ever agreeing to add Houston with their size and resources. Houston needs to focus on building their program to the UCF/Boise level, and hope something shacks up the status quo among the P5's.

Nobody regrets TCU. They've been the 2nd best football program since they were admitted.

(02-18-2019 07:23 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 06:47 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 08:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Houston gets in when the Big 12 leaders get some balls and boot the embarrassment that Baylor brought onto the conference. I would make them become a program like Rice. New Mexico, TCU, Houston and BYU was the number choices for the formation of the Big 12, but politics in Texas got them in.

Houston was initially rumored instead of Baylor, but TCU was never a favorite. BYU and New Mexico were mentioned as possibilities to 14 after the conference decided not to do a full merge with the SWC, but before they had an official name. LSU and Arkansas were also mentioned, so there ya go.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2016...swc-merger

Both of you are wrong. Only OU's Castiglione mentioned Houston as a potential member. The Big 8 wanted to merge with the 8 schools from the SWC but ESPN said no. ESPN only wanted 4 SWC schools and I don't recall any mention of BYU or New Mexico.

Quote:Chuck Neinas, Big Eight commissioner from 1971–80, executive director of the CFA from 1980–97: ESPN did not want all the members. They wanted eight from the Big Eight and they'd take four from the Southwest Conference. Obviously, the two they wanted most were Texas and Texas A&M. I received a call from Loren Matthews, who was a key executive with ESPN with whom I had developed a good relationship. And Loren told me, he said, "Here's my problem. We want the Big Eight, but we don't want all of the Southwest Conference." I said, "Well, just let me make some phone calls, and I'm sure they'll get back to you." So I called DeLoss Dodds at Texas, Donnie Duncan at Oklahoma and Bill Byrne at Nebraska, and the rest is history.

According to UT's Chancellor Cunningham, UT, A&M and Texas Tech were safely in the new conference. The last spot was between Baylor and TCU

Quote:Cunningham: A&M and Texas were easy, and Texas Tech had the third-best attendance. Then we came down to the fourth school, and that was Baylor versus TCU. When you really looked at the hard data, Baylor was the better choice. They had better attendance and better records. When I called the Baylor president, he was not in, and I spoke with his wife. His wife told me that he was at a prayer meeting, and I said, "I now believe in prayer more than ever."

Baylor and Texas Tech were never in the plans for the Big 12. They were politically motivated additions. Governor Ann "Maw" Richards was a Baylor alum, and Lt. Governor Bob Bullock was a Texas Tech grad. Those two were not going to let Texas and A&M (the two largest public universities in Texas), abandon their alma maters. Had those two not been in charge of Texas at the time of the Big 12's birth, Baylor and Texas Tech would have also spent the past 20+ years struggling for relevance, like TCU, Houston, SMU, and Rice.

Ann Richards
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Richards

Bob Bullock
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Bullock

Ann Richards had nothing to do with it. It was Bullock and several Tech alums-speaker of the house and key committee members.

And Texas always knew Tech had to have a home. Tech was always involved, at least since the 1989 near collapse of the SWC.

(02-17-2019 04:45 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Houston P5 history and two final fours facilities and academics that make the cut.

We have 5.

(02-18-2019 09:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 07:23 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 06:47 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 09:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-18-2019 08:04 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Houston gets in when the Big 12 leaders get some balls and boot the embarrassment that Baylor brought onto the conference. I would make them become a program like Rice. New Mexico, TCU, Houston and BYU was the number choices for the formation of the Big 12, but politics in Texas got them in.

Houston was initially rumored instead of Baylor, but TCU was never a favorite. BYU and New Mexico were mentioned as possibilities to 14 after the conference decided not to do a full merge with the SWC, but before they had an official name. LSU and Arkansas were also mentioned, so there ya go.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2016...swc-merger

Both of you are wrong. Only OU's Castiglione mentioned Houston as a potential member. The Big 8 wanted to merge with the 8 schools from the SWC but ESPN said no. ESPN only wanted 4 SWC schools and I don't recall any mention of BYU or New Mexico.

Quote:Chuck Neinas, Big Eight commissioner from 1971–80, executive director of the CFA from 1980–97: ESPN did not want all the members. They wanted eight from the Big Eight and they'd take four from the Southwest Conference. Obviously, the two they wanted most were Texas and Texas A&M. I received a call from Loren Matthews, who was a key executive with ESPN with whom I had developed a good relationship. And Loren told me, he said, "Here's my problem. We want the Big Eight, but we don't want all of the Southwest Conference." I said, "Well, just let me make some phone calls, and I'm sure they'll get back to you." So I called DeLoss Dodds at Texas, Donnie Duncan at Oklahoma and Bill Byrne at Nebraska, and the rest is history.

According to UT's Chancellor Cunningham, UT, A&M and Texas Tech were safely in the new conference. The last spot was between Baylor and TCU

Quote:Cunningham: A&M and Texas were easy, and Texas Tech had the third-best attendance. Then we came down to the fourth school, and that was Baylor versus TCU. When you really looked at the hard data, Baylor was the better choice. They had better attendance and better records. When I called the Baylor president, he was not in, and I spoke with his wife. His wife told me that he was at a prayer meeting, and I said, "I now believe in prayer more than ever."

Baylor and Texas Tech were never in the plans for the Big 12. They were politically motivated additions. Governor Ann "Maw" Richards was a Baylor alum, and Lt. Governor Bob Bullock was a Texas Tech grad. Those two were not going to let Texas and A&M (the two largest public universities in Texas), abandon their alma maters. Had those two not been in charge of Texas at the time of the Big 12's birth, Baylor and Texas Tech would have also spent the past 20+ years struggling for relevance, like TCU, Houston, SMU, and Rice.

Ann Richards
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Richards

Bob Bullock
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Bullock

Ann Richards had nothing to do with it. It was Bullock and several Tech alums-speaker of the house and key committee members.

And Texas always knew Tech had to have a home. Tech was always involved, at least since the 1989 near collapse of the SWC.

Ann Richards had everything to do with Baylor getting in. The last spot would've gone to Houston if not for her.