(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

This does not make any sense. The WCC consists of 10 faith based schools. It is probably the right conference for Gonzaga. Gonzaga is headed for a #1 seeding in the west in the NCAA Tournament. How does this alignment improve on that? Also, USF has not been to the NCAA Tournament in 20 years. Santa Clara in 23 years. Pepperdine in 17 years.

Denver is in the Summit. They have a current record of 7-20 and have never been to the NCAA tournament. Portland State is in the Big Sky and they are currently 12-14. They are your typical Big Sky basketball program.

Hawaii is in the Big West and that is perfect for them. The Big West is a California Bus League, which is perfect for Long Beach State. Long Beach State is currently 10-18. New Mexico State does not want to send their Olympic sports programs to Hawaii. GCU has not done anything yet.

Six of the ten programs in your proposal are already in the WCC. I don't see the attraction for Gonzaga. Why not just stay in the WCC?

(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

If you were to create a new basketball-centered conference in the West for Gonzaga, it would involve teams from the MWC, not the Big West or most of the WCC.

Gonzaga's better and realistic course of action is to continue to improve the WCC. The reduced 16-game schedule and auto bid to the WCC tournament semifinals have helped. The next change should be to move the WCC tournament to a better venue during championship weekend.

Gonzaga should also continue to put pressure on WCC schools to allocate more resources and attention to build their basketball programs. The WCC needs more from its second tier - USF, USD, and LMU are great candidates to help the WCC improve...and BYU has got to get it's act together. This is the first year in the WCC that we don't have a head-scratching conference loss to a sub-150 RPI team...but, unfortunately, we took care of that in December, by losing to Weber St. and Illinois St.

As far as WCC expansion, only GCU and Denver are legitimate candidates from your list...and that's simply because they are proximate private faith-based institutions. I believe that GCU would strengthen the WCC - as the have shown over the last 5 years that they could be among the conference leaders in attendance and compete for 3rd-5th place in the conference standings. But, I'm biased because Phoenix would make for an excellent road game for BYU fans and alumni.

(02-22-2019 08:46 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 12:28 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Gonzaga is really good. The next best school is USF (San Francisco) and they got thumped by Gonzaga. So the gap is massive. So massive in fact that a 2nd bid is far from certain. They beat a horrible Cal and a not very good Stanford team and a equally uninspiring BYU, and losing to Gonzaga by 30. The over under is probably about 1.5 and then under looks a lot better than 50-50. BYU and St. Mary's are about the same level. (too bad the USF vs ASU game got cancelled, looking back they needed that ... or not if they would have been hammered)

That tells you remove Gonzaga and there is not much else, maybe a couple NIT teams.

That of course is why the MWC wanted to poach Gonzaga, and why they were tempted before the WCC threw them a far larger share of tournament money to keep them.

Nevada is the best team in the MWC, senior laden, but while better than the 2nd-4th in both MWC and WCC, they are not close to Gonzaga. The question is are Utah State, Fresno State and San Diego State any different than USF, SMC and BYU? Maybe maybe not.I think they are all in that same mediocre NIT level range. But I think the MWC 1.5 over under for NCAA bids is more likely to be over than under (if nothing else it's not implausible one of those 3 schools knock off the Wolfpack in the MWC Tourney.)

The bottom teams of both conferences are terrible, but that is nothing new.

I find it hard to say conference A is stronger than conference B based on a single school. That is why some power ranking methods throw out the top and the bottom school. In these two conferences cases we are not talking about schools, after the top one, which have more than a 1 in 4 or 5 chance of pulling a first round upset; they just plain lack the talent.

I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

Portland State and Long Beach State don't really make sense here. Not sure Hawaii does either, but I guess NMSU doesn't want to be the only public school.

Did it matter that UConn was the only state school in the original Big East? It's about athletics and maximizing bids and profits.

(02-22-2019 09:35 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

This does not make any sense. The WCC consists of 10 faith based schools. It is probably the right conference for Gonzaga. Gonzaga is headed for a #1 seeding in the west in the NCAA Tournament. How does this alignment improve on that? Also, USF has not been to the NCAA Tournament in 20 years. Santa Clara in 23 years. Pepperdine in 17 years.

Denver is in the Summit. They have a current record of 7-20 and have never been to the NCAA tournament. Portland State is in the Big Sky and they are currently 12-14. They are your typical Big Sky basketball program.

Hawaii is in the Big West and that is perfect for them. The Big West is a California Bus League, which is perfect for Long Beach State. Long Beach State is currently 10-18. New Mexico State does not want to send their Olympic sports programs to Hawaii. GCU has not done anything yet.

Six of the ten programs in your proposal are already in the WCC. I don't see the attraction for Gonzaga. Why not just stay in the WCC?

Because the moment they go a season with a few loses they are a low seed. They have already publicly complained about the rest of the conference not being committed to a high level of athletics.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...ick-it-up/

(02-22-2019 11:46 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

If you were to create a new basketball-centered conference in the West for Gonzaga, it would involve teams from the MWC, not the Big West or most of the WCC.

Gonzaga's better and realistic course of action is to continue to improve the WCC. The reduced 16-game schedule and auto bid to the WCC tournament semifinals have helped. The next change should be to move the WCC tournament to a better venue during championship weekend.

Gonzaga should also continue to put pressure on WCC schools to allocate more resources and attention to build their basketball programs. The WCC needs more from its second tier - USF, USD, and LMU are great candidates to help the WCC improve...and BYU has got to get it's act together. This is the first year in the WCC that we don't have a head-scratching conference loss to a sub-150 RPI team...but, unfortunately, we took care of that in December, by losing to Weber St. and Illinois St.

As far as WCC expansion, only GCU and Denver are legitimate candidates from your list...and that's simply because they are proximate private faith-based institutions. I believe that GCU would strengthen the WCC - as the have shown over the last 5 years that they could be among the conference leaders in attendance and compete for 3rd-5th place in the conference standings. But, I'm biased because Phoenix would make for an excellent road game for BYU fans and alumni.

Well the MWC teams aren't leaving for BBall because they are together for Football reasons. Acting like a best of the west wouldn't be better than the current WCC is just silly. You think the OG Big East cared that not all the members weren't the same? Strengthening the WCC is easier said than done. Creating a conference of schools committed to competing every year is the best way to go. The top media markets in the west with the most quality programs not in a FB conference is the right answer for creating a league that can legitimately finish in the top 6-9 conferences every year. A conference that can on a yearly basis battle for the right to be called the best west coast BBall conference.

(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 12:28 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Gonzaga is really good. The next best school is USF (San Francisco) and they got thumped by Gonzaga. So the gap is massive. So massive in fact that a 2nd bid is far from certain. They beat a horrible Cal and a not very good Stanford team and a equally uninspiring BYU, and losing to Gonzaga by 30. The over under is probably about 1.5 and then under looks a lot better than 50-50. BYU and St. Mary's are about the same level. (too bad the USF vs ASU game got cancelled, looking back they needed that ... or not if they would have been hammered)

That tells you remove Gonzaga and there is not much else, maybe a couple NIT teams.

That of course is why the MWC wanted to poach Gonzaga, and why they were tempted before the WCC threw them a far larger share of tournament money to keep them.

Nevada is the best team in the MWC, senior laden, but while better than the 2nd-4th in both MWC and WCC, they are not close to Gonzaga. The question is are Utah State, Fresno State and San Diego State any different than USF, SMC and BYU? Maybe maybe not.I think they are all in that same mediocre NIT level range. But I think the MWC 1.5 over under for NCAA bids is more likely to be over than under (if nothing else it's not implausible one of those 3 schools knock off the Wolfpack in the MWC Tourney.)

The bottom teams of both conferences are terrible, but that is nothing new.

I find it hard to say conference A is stronger than conference B based on a single school. That is why some power ranking methods throw out the top and the bottom school. In these two conferences cases we are not talking about schools, after the top one, which have more than a 1 in 4 or 5 chance of pulling a first round upset; they just plain lack the talent.

I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

How did you make up that map? Because I'd like to do one of my own

(02-22-2019 10:36 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 09:35 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

This does not make any sense. The WCC consists of 10 faith based schools. It is probably the right conference for Gonzaga. Gonzaga is headed for a #1 seeding in the west in the NCAA Tournament. How does this alignment improve on that? Also, USF has not been to the NCAA Tournament in 20 years. Santa Clara in 23 years. Pepperdine in 17 years.

Denver is in the Summit. They have a current record of 7-20 and have never been to the NCAA tournament. Portland State is in the Big Sky and they are currently 12-14. They are your typical Big Sky basketball program.

Hawaii is in the Big West and that is perfect for them. The Big West is a California Bus League, which is perfect for Long Beach State. Long Beach State is currently 10-18. New Mexico State does not want to send their Olympic sports programs to Hawaii. GCU has not done anything yet.

Six of the ten programs in your proposal are already in the WCC. I don't see the attraction for Gonzaga. Why not just stay in the WCC?

Because the moment they go a season with a few loses they are a low seed. They have already publicly complained about the rest of the conference not being committed to a high level of athletics.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...ick-it-up/

That was an article from 2016. The WCC addressed these legitimate concerns last year:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/spor...ng-in-wcc/

The Bulldogs over the next seven years reportedly will receive $1.2 million annually in back pay for NCAA Tournament credits, along with an increase in shared money, and can now schedule two additional nonleague games, a result of the WCC decreasing its conference schedule to 16. The latter ensures Gonzaga’s RPI isn’t hurt as often when it’s playing the Pepperdines of the world.

The WCC teams also committed to spend more on basketball. We will see over time if that happens. But this was a good deal for Gonzaga and addresses the issues from that 2016 article. Currently, Gonzaga is the #1 ranked team in the country in Net Ranking and if they beat BYU at home tonight, should become the #1 ranked team in the country in the national polls.

They look like they will be the #1 seed in the west for the second time in three years. They are currently ranked #5 in 247sports.com in basketball recruiting rankings for 2019. The play on the court is going well, the recruiting is very good and they are making a million plus more in profits from their new WCC agreement. They used their leverage last year to get a much better deal in the WCC. Blowing that up to try to find a west coast version of the Big East makes no sense.

Mountain Athletic Conference (MAC)

Gonzaga
San Francisco
San Diego St
Hawaii
Boise St
UNLV
Grand Canyon
BYU
Colorado St
New Mexico
UTEP

11 for basketball (20 game schedule). Eight for football including champ in Sun Bowl. Eleven schools across 10 western states.

(02-23-2019 01:19 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 10:36 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 09:35 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

This does not make any sense. The WCC consists of 10 faith based schools. It is probably the right conference for Gonzaga. Gonzaga is headed for a #1 seeding in the west in the NCAA Tournament. How does this alignment improve on that? Also, USF has not been to the NCAA Tournament in 20 years. Santa Clara in 23 years. Pepperdine in 17 years.

Denver is in the Summit. They have a current record of 7-20 and have never been to the NCAA tournament. Portland State is in the Big Sky and they are currently 12-14. They are your typical Big Sky basketball program.

Hawaii is in the Big West and that is perfect for them. The Big West is a California Bus League, which is perfect for Long Beach State. Long Beach State is currently 10-18. New Mexico State does not want to send their Olympic sports programs to Hawaii. GCU has not done anything yet.

Six of the ten programs in your proposal are already in the WCC. I don't see the attraction for Gonzaga. Why not just stay in the WCC?

Because the moment they go a season with a few loses they are a low seed. They have already publicly complained about the rest of the conference not being committed to a high level of athletics.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...ick-it-up/

That was an article from 2016. The WCC addressed these legitimate concerns last year:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/spor...ng-in-wcc/

The Bulldogs over the next seven years reportedly will receive $1.2 million annually in back pay for NCAA Tournament credits, along with an increase in shared money, and can now schedule two additional nonleague games, a result of the WCC decreasing its conference schedule to 16. The latter ensures Gonzaga’s RPI isn’t hurt as often when it’s playing the Pepperdines of the world.

The WCC teams also committed to spend more on basketball. We will see over time if that happens. But this was a good deal for Gonzaga and addresses the issues from that 2016 article. Currently, Gonzaga is the #1 ranked team in the country in Net Ranking and if they beat BYU at home tonight, should become the #1 ranked team in the country in the national polls.

They look like they will be the #1 seed in the west for the second time in three years. They are currently ranked #5 in 247sports.com in basketball recruiting rankings for 2019. The play on the court is going well, the recruiting is very good and they are making a million plus more in profits from their new WCC agreement. They used their leverage last year to get a much better deal in the WCC. Blowing that up to try to find a west coast version of the Big East makes no sense.

Please, taking more money from the rest of the teams and playing them less isn't addressing those issues at all. It's actually making them worse and it makes it look even more like the Zags are going to leave once they get a good landing spot.

(02-23-2019 12:28 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-20-2019 12:28 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Gonzaga is really good. The next best school is USF (San Francisco) and they got thumped by Gonzaga. So the gap is massive. So massive in fact that a 2nd bid is far from certain. They beat a horrible Cal and a not very good Stanford team and a equally uninspiring BYU, and losing to Gonzaga by 30. The over under is probably about 1.5 and then under looks a lot better than 50-50. BYU and St. Mary's are about the same level. (too bad the USF vs ASU game got cancelled, looking back they needed that ... or not if they would have been hammered)

That tells you remove Gonzaga and there is not much else, maybe a couple NIT teams.

That of course is why the MWC wanted to poach Gonzaga, and why they were tempted before the WCC threw them a far larger share of tournament money to keep them.

Nevada is the best team in the MWC, senior laden, but while better than the 2nd-4th in both MWC and WCC, they are not close to Gonzaga. The question is are Utah State, Fresno State and San Diego State any different than USF, SMC and BYU? Maybe maybe not.I think they are all in that same mediocre NIT level range. But I think the MWC 1.5 over under for NCAA bids is more likely to be over than under (if nothing else it's not implausible one of those 3 schools knock off the Wolfpack in the MWC Tourney.)

The bottom teams of both conferences are terrible, but that is nothing new.

I find it hard to say conference A is stronger than conference B based on a single school. That is why some power ranking methods throw out the top and the bottom school. In these two conferences cases we are not talking about schools, after the top one, which have more than a 1 in 4 or 5 chance of pulling a first round upset; they just plain lack the talent.

I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

How did you make up that map? Because I'd like to do one of my own

Google image search and cut and paste

(02-22-2019 10:43 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 11:46 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

If you were to create a new basketball-centered conference in the West for Gonzaga, it would involve teams from the MWC, not the Big West or most of the WCC.

Gonzaga's better and realistic course of action is to continue to improve the WCC. The reduced 16-game schedule and auto bid to the WCC tournament semifinals have helped. The next change should be to move the WCC tournament to a better venue during championship weekend.

Gonzaga should also continue to put pressure on WCC schools to allocate more resources and attention to build their basketball programs. The WCC needs more from its second tier - USF, USD, and LMU are great candidates to help the WCC improve...and BYU has got to get it's act together. This is the first year in the WCC that we don't have a head-scratching conference loss to a sub-150 RPI team...but, unfortunately, we took care of that in December, by losing to Weber St. and Illinois St.

As far as WCC expansion, only GCU and Denver are legitimate candidates from your list...and that's simply because they are proximate private faith-based institutions. I believe that GCU would strengthen the WCC - as the have shown over the last 5 years that they could be among the conference leaders in attendance and compete for 3rd-5th place in the conference standings. But, I'm biased because Phoenix would make for an excellent road game for BYU fans and alumni.

Well the MWC teams aren't leaving for BBall because they are together for Football reasons. Acting like a best of the west wouldn't be better than the current WCC is just silly. You think the OG Big East cared that not all the members weren't the same? Strengthening the WCC is easier said than done. Creating a conference of schools committed to competing every year is the best way to go. The top media markets in the west with the most quality programs not in a FB conference is the right answer for creating a league that can legitimately finish in the top 6-9 conferences every year. A conference that can on a yearly basis battle for the right to be called the best west coast BBall conference.

Hot commodity leagues don't work. Gonzaga had a chance at the Mountain West and they passed. Plus, everybody witnessed the disaster that was Big East football, so schools like New Mexico are non-starters, but you addressed that in your follow-up.

Had BYU been able to develop their version of the WAC where they didn't play a full football schedule, maybe a powerful basketball league would have emerged including Gonzaga, Nevada, and NMSU. As of now, Gonzaga to the WCC is UNLV to the old Big West/PCC. No reason for them to jump ship when the conference bends at their will.

(02-24-2019 01:36 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 10:43 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 11:46 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(02-21-2019 09:44 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East. Off the top of my head Zags, BYU, St. Marys, Long Beach, New Mexico, Hawaii, USF, Denver, Pepperdine, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara and Portland State. Now the teams on the fringe dont matter nor does the # 10 or 12. The big thing is the top teams (Zags, BYU, New Mexico State, Hawaii) realize it's better to have their own conference that can legitimately compete for multiple bids year after year and maximize their value together. Just like how the original Big East came together. gather those the most committed to competing at the highest level.

If you were to create a new basketball-centered conference in the West for Gonzaga, it would involve teams from the MWC, not the Big West or most of the WCC.

Gonzaga's better and realistic course of action is to continue to improve the WCC. The reduced 16-game schedule and auto bid to the WCC tournament semifinals have helped. The next change should be to move the WCC tournament to a better venue during championship weekend.

Gonzaga should also continue to put pressure on WCC schools to allocate more resources and attention to build their basketball programs. The WCC needs more from its second tier - USF, USD, and LMU are great candidates to help the WCC improve...and BYU has got to get it's act together. This is the first year in the WCC that we don't have a head-scratching conference loss to a sub-150 RPI team...but, unfortunately, we took care of that in December, by losing to Weber St. and Illinois St.

As far as WCC expansion, only GCU and Denver are legitimate candidates from your list...and that's simply because they are proximate private faith-based institutions. I believe that GCU would strengthen the WCC - as the have shown over the last 5 years that they could be among the conference leaders in attendance and compete for 3rd-5th place in the conference standings. But, I'm biased because Phoenix would make for an excellent road game for BYU fans and alumni.

Well the MWC teams aren't leaving for BBall because they are together for Football reasons. Acting like a best of the west wouldn't be better than the current WCC is just silly. You think the OG Big East cared that not all the members weren't the same? Strengthening the WCC is easier said than done. Creating a conference of schools committed to competing every year is the best way to go. The top media markets in the west with the most quality programs not in a FB conference is the right answer for creating a league that can legitimately finish in the top 6-9 conferences every year. A conference that can on a yearly basis battle for the right to be called the best west coast BBall conference.

Hot commodity leagues don't work. Gonzaga had a chance at the Mountain West and they passed. Plus, everybody witnessed the disaster that was Big East football, so schools like New Mexico are non-starters, but you addressed that in your follow-up.

Had BYU been able to develop their version of the WAC where they didn't play a full football schedule, maybe a powerful basketball league would have emerged including Gonzaga, Nevada, and NMSU. As of now, Gonzaga to the WCC is UNLV to the old Big West/PCC. No reason for them to jump ship when the conference bends at their will.

The Big East worked. Football isn't an issue since everyone is where they want to be or have no options.

(02-22-2019 10:43 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Acting like a best of the west wouldn't be better than the current WCC is just silly.

Better probably, on a whiteboard. Better enough to regularly be a multi-bid league? Probably not. Later I might take a dive through wikipedia and count up the NCAA bids over the last 20 years of the programs you listed, and count up the No. 10-and-better-seed bids.

Quote: Creating a conference of schools committed to competing every year is the best way to go.

The NCAA rulebook is heavily tilted against the creation of new conferences. The Big EAst was allowed in 2012-13 because we were royalty, unfairly screwed over by the winds of realignment.

Quote:The top media markets in the west with the most quality programs not in a FB conference is the right answer for creating a league that can legitimately finish in the top 6-9 conferences every year. A conference that can on a yearly basis battle for the right to be called the best west coast BBall conference.

Top 9 conferences isn't good enough--these days only 7-8 conferences regularly get multiple bids. "Better than the MWC" isn't guaranteed, and also isn't going to cut it.

The Big East parallel is bad. To be a west coast version of the Big East, you'd need something like UCLA, UNLV, Arizona, SDSU, UNM, Gonzaga and Utah as a start. You're talking about a West Coast A-10. And since the East Coast A-10 is being squeezed out.....

(02-23-2019 01:58 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Mountain Athletic Conference (MAC)

Gonzaga
San Francisco
San Diego St
Hawaii
Boise St
UNLV
Grand Canyon
BYU
Colorado St
New Mexico
UTEP

11 for basketball (20 game schedule). Eight for football including champ in Sun Bowl. Eleven schools across 10 western states.

What has Grand Canyon done to be put in that company? At least USF has history.

At some point I expect Gonzaga and BYU to leave for greener pastures. The tell for Gonzaga will be if/when Mark Few leaves. If those two leave, them look for Seattle and Grand Canyon to replace them. Perhaps, Denver for #11 and a 20-game round robin.

(02-24-2019 12:23 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Please, taking more money from the rest of the teams and playing them less isn't addressing those issues at all. It's actually making them worse and it makes it look even more like the Zags are going to leave once they get a good landing spot.

Money was a big issue for Gonzaga. They are getting an additional $8.4 million in back pay, $1.2 million per year over seven years. What would be a better landing spot? You stated "I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East." Look at the current Net Rankings of the Big West. One school is in the top 150, that is UCI at 92. The WCC has six schools in the top 150. Bad idea to merge with a California bus league.

Gonzaga is four wins away from clinching their third #1 seed since 2013. They were #2 in 2015. What school in the Big West can say that? What school in the west can say that? Gonzaga does not need to leave. The reason you leave a conference is for money. That issue has been addressed by the WCC. For Gonzaga to leave now, they would leave millions of dollars on the table. Blowing up the Big West, the WAC and the WCC will not create another Big East and will not get the money that the Big East is getting.

(02-24-2019 12:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-22-2019 10:43 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Acting like a best of the west wouldn't be better than the current WCC is just silly.

Better probably, on a whiteboard. Better enough to regularly be a multi-bid league? Probably not. Later I might take a dive through wikipedia and count up the NCAA bids over the last 20 years of the programs you listed, and count up the No. 10-and-better-seed bids.

Quote: Creating a conference of schools committed to competing every year is the best way to go.

The NCAA rulebook is heavily tilted against the creation of new conferences. The Big EAst was allowed in 2012-13 because we were royalty, unfairly screwed over by the winds of realignment.

Quote:The top media markets in the west with the most quality programs not in a FB conference is the right answer for creating a league that can legitimately finish in the top 6-9 conferences every year. A conference that can on a yearly basis battle for the right to be called the best west coast BBall conference.

Top 9 conferences isn't good enough--these days only 7-8 conferences regularly get multiple bids. "Better than the MWC" isn't guaranteed, and also isn't going to cut it.

The Big East parallel is bad. To be a west coast version of the Big East, you'd need something like UCLA, UNLV, Arizona, SDSU, UNM, Gonzaga and Utah as a start. You're talking about a West Coast A-10. And since the East Coast A-10 is being squeezed out.....

You do know that would prove nothing since the leagues SOS would be improved right? Playing a higher level of competition is a sure fire way to get more bids and better seeds. For example look at the Big East before the conference was formed and after or at the teams who joined after the last split of the conference. Better seeds for X and Butler than when they were in the A-10 and Horizon. Yes, they could go a few years without an auto-bid but a conference with the Zags, BYU, New Mexico, St. Mary's and many other of the better west coast schools would easily get multiple bids a year.

(02-24-2019 03:49 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(02-23-2019 01:58 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Mountain Athletic Conference (MAC)

Gonzaga
San Francisco
San Diego St
Hawaii
Boise St
UNLV
Grand Canyon
BYU
Colorado St
New Mexico
UTEP

11 for basketball (20 game schedule). Eight for football including champ in Sun Bowl. Eleven schools across 10 western states.

What has Grand Canyon done to be put in that company? At least USF has history.

Financially committed and playing in a major western media market.

(02-24-2019 06:41 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 12:23 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Please, taking more money from the rest of the teams and playing them less isn't addressing those issues at all. It's actually making them worse and it makes it look even more like the Zags are going to leave once they get a good landing spot.

Money was a big issue for Gonzaga. They are getting an additional $8.4 million in back pay, $1.2 million per year over seven years. What would be a better landing spot? You stated "I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East." Look at the current Net Rankings of the Big West. One school is in the top 150, that is UCI at 92. The WCC has six schools in the top 150. Bad idea to merge with a California bus league.

Gonzaga is four wins away from clinching their third #1 seed since 2013. They were #2 in 2015. What school in the Big West can say that? What school in the west can say that? Gonzaga does not need to leave. The reason you leave a conference is for money. That issue has been addressed by the WCC. For Gonzaga to leave now, they would leave millions of dollars on the table. Blowing up the Big West, the WAC and the WCC will not create another Big East and will not get the money that the Big East is getting.

Never said they would get Big East money, just better than whats there now. The Zags strong arming the rest of the conference to giving them more money is a short term win and a long term disaster. If those programs are poor now just wait a few years when they are even poorer and have less resources. Acting like a best of the west os some insane idea and that the WCC is better than that is beyond silly. The Zags are a one coach wonder just like UNLV before them. If they don't use their programs zenith to advance the school and program they will sink back down to the level of the rest of the WCC. Think Butler would have been better off staying in the Horizon and strong arming the members for more money?

(02-24-2019 09:36 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 06:41 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(02-24-2019 12:23 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Please, taking more money from the rest of the teams and playing them less isn't addressing those issues at all. It's actually making them worse and it makes it look even more like the Zags are going to leave once they get a good landing spot.

Money was a big issue for Gonzaga. They are getting an additional $8.4 million in back pay, $1.2 million per year over seven years. What would be a better landing spot? You stated "I've said a few times that Gonzaga needs to have an airport meeting with a few WCC and Big West schools and put together a west coast version of the Big East." Look at the current Net Rankings of the Big West. One school is in the top 150, that is UCI at 92. The WCC has six schools in the top 150. Bad idea to merge with a California bus league.

Gonzaga is four wins away from clinching their third #1 seed since 2013. They were #2 in 2015. What school in the Big West can say that? What school in the west can say that? Gonzaga does not need to leave. The reason you leave a conference is for money. That issue has been addressed by the WCC. For Gonzaga to leave now, they would leave millions of dollars on the table. Blowing up the Big West, the WAC and the WCC will not create another Big East and will not get the money that the Big East is getting.

Never said they would get Big East money, just better than whats there now.

Then stop using the Big East analogy. Say "A-10 money" or "CAA money. Because then it'll be clear that the math doesn't work to go without an autobid for 8 years and tear up 2-3 conference and create bitterness with 20-30 left behind schools.

Quote:If those programs are poor now just wait a few years when they are even poorer and have less resources. Acting like a best of the west os some insane idea and that the WCC is better than that is beyond silly.

It's not an insane idea (like, say, forming a conference of all the Loyolas or all the Aggie schools across the country), it's just an idea where the math makes no sense.

Quote: Think Butler would have been better off staying in the Horizon and strong arming the members for more money?

No, because they had very valid options--join an existing, better league (A-10, then Big East). If their answer was to tear up the horizon, Summit, OVC and the Valley to build a slightly better, but still one-bid league, that would be what you're talking about.