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Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
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johnbragg Online
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Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
So ESPN has signed a deal with CUSA to run a ton of second- and third-tier and beyond CUSA events. This deal is for what was left over after CUSA's main deals with CBS-SN, Stadium and Facebook.
http://conferenceusa.com/news/2018/6/7/g...-deal.aspx

IF my memory is to be believed, Quo VAdis reported remembering that the Facebook streams of CUSA games were getting viewership in the hundreds. That sounds accurate.

I doubt that many more people will watch on ESPN+ than on Facebook. ESPN+ will be a more familiar platform for CUSA fans, but I'm skeptical that most of these events will produce viewership (or marginal subscribers) that justifies the cost of producing the games.

Isn't that a big part of PAC12net's problem?
02-20-2019 11:20 AM
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Greenroom Offline
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 11:20 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  So ESPN has signed a deal with CUSA to run a ton of second- and third-tier and beyond CUSA events. This deal is for what was left over after CUSA's main deals with CBS-SN, Stadium and Facebook.
http://conferenceusa.com/news/2018/6/7/g...-deal.aspx

IF my memory is to be believed, Quo VAdis reported remembering that the Facebook streams of CUSA games were getting viewership in the hundreds. That sounds accurate.

I doubt that many more people will watch on ESPN+ than on Facebook. ESPN+ will be a more familiar platform for CUSA fans, but I'm skeptical that most of these events will produce viewership (or marginal subscribers) that justifies the cost of producing the games.

Isn't that a big part of PAC12net's problem?

Disagree, being on ESPN+ is great. I have watched more CUSA basketball than ever before. Being able to watch the big games and have it on a site that has other college conferences is huge.

And lets be honest, no one is buying ESPN+ for CUSA only, there is just so much value in having it beyond CUSA. But it does open it up to more exposure when you can watch the Sunbelt and CUSA and other smaller college conferences..IMO
02-20-2019 11:34 AM
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johnbragg Online
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 11:34 AM)Greenroom Wrote:  
(02-20-2019 11:20 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  So ESPN has signed a deal with CUSA to run a ton of second- and third-tier and beyond CUSA events. This deal is for what was left over after CUSA's main deals with CBS-SN, Stadium and Facebook.
http://conferenceusa.com/news/2018/6/7/g...-deal.aspx

IF my memory is to be believed, Quo VAdis reported remembering that the Facebook streams of CUSA games were getting viewership in the hundreds. That sounds accurate.

I doubt that many more people will watch on ESPN+ than on Facebook. ESPN+ will be a more familiar platform for CUSA fans, but I'm skeptical that most of these events will produce viewership (or marginal subscribers) that justifies the cost of producing the games.

Isn't that a big part of PAC12net's problem?

Disagree, being on ESPN+ is great. I have watched more CUSA basketball than ever before. Being able to watch the big games and have it on a site that has other college conferences is huge.

And lets be honest, no one is buying ESPN+ for CUSA only, there is just so much value in having it beyond CUSA. But it does open it up to more exposure when you can watch the Sunbelt and CUSA and other smaller college conferences..IMO

I suppose for CUSA fans, it's an upgrade from CUSA.com or whatever you guys were doing. But I'm using CUSA as an example--that's not the only type of event where it seems like ESPN is spending, say, tens of thousands to broadcast where only a few thousand will actually watch.
02-20-2019 11:47 AM
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
Pac12Nets problems have to do with carriage. They’re not on DirecTV and got kicked off UVerse recently. Probably not available on many cable systems in the east. ESPN+ can be subscribed to by anyone with $5 and internet service. Until the P12 is available like ESPN+, not sure how they’re even comparable
02-20-2019 01:32 PM
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 01:32 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Pac12Nets problems have to do with carriage. They’re not on DirecTV and got kicked off UVerse recently. Probably not available on many cable systems in the east. ESPN+ can be subscribed to by anyone with $5 and internet service. Until the P12 is available like ESPN+, not sure how they’re even comparable

Correct. The P12 Network's business model is to gain placements on cable and satellite systems from whom they would collect subscriber fees. ESPN+ is a direct to consumer service only. ESPN+ is well suited for fans of niche sports and niche leagues and fans desiring an additional volume of games from specific sports. As its subscriber base grows, it may also compete for mainstream sports rights.

The choice between ESPN+ and Facebook ultimately comes down to which service is willing to pay more for the rights based on its ability to monetize those rights.
02-20-2019 01:56 PM
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
ESPN+ has been a great addition to the MVC. Nice to watch all of our football and basketball games now.
02-20-2019 02:24 PM
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johnbragg Online
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 01:32 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Pac12Nets problems have to do with carriage. They’re not on DirecTV and got kicked off UVerse recently. Probably not available on many cable systems in the east. ESPN+ can be subscribed to by anyone with $5 and internet service. Until the P12 is available like ESPN+, not sure how they’re even comparable

The comparison is that both P12 and ESPN+ are committed to producing high quality (which means fairly expensive) broadcasts of programming with very narrow audiences. Which doesn't seem like a profitable endeavor

(BTN and the SEC network show some nonrevenue sports, but not to nearly the same degree, because they're not trying to fill 7 different channel feeds)

DirectTV aside, P12net and ESPN+ are both sports services that cable customers have to actively choose to have and pay for.

PACnet has two separate carriage problems: They're not on some systems AT ALL, and they're not on basic cable anywhere as far as I know. (Both of which stem from the same root--there's not that much demand for PAC 12 programming. But that's beside my point)
02-20-2019 02:53 PM
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 02:53 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-20-2019 01:32 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Pac12Nets problems have to do with carriage. They’re not on DirecTV and got kicked off UVerse recently. Probably not available on many cable systems in the east. ESPN+ can be subscribed to by anyone with $5 and internet service. Until the P12 is available like ESPN+, not sure how they’re even comparable

The comparison is that both P12 and ESPN+ are committed to producing high quality (which means fairly expensive) broadcasts of programming with very narrow audiences. Which doesn't seem like a profitable endeavor

(BTN and the SEC network show some nonrevenue sports, but not to nearly the same degree, because they're not trying to fill 7 different channel feeds)

DirectTV aside, P12net and ESPN+ are both sports services that cable customers have to actively choose to have and pay for.

PACnet has two separate carriage problems: They're not on some systems AT ALL, and they're not on basic cable anywhere as far as I know. (Both of which stem from the same root--there's not that much demand for PAC 12 programming. But that's beside my point)

You don't have to be a cable subscriber to have ESPN+.

One of the biggest problems the PAC Network has is they attempt to do everything in house and in no universe does the PAC 12 have the same resources as one of the largest media giants in the world. With ESPN, they already have an extensive network of people and facilities that make any expansion of their coverage smoother and more profitable.

For ESPN, their new OTT service is in part a trial run on using new tech and adjusting to a new market where internet-based services may one day overtake linear feeds from cable and satellite. They're not really trying to make a ton of money off of it at this stage anyway.
02-20-2019 03:13 PM
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johnbragg Online
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 03:13 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(02-20-2019 02:53 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-20-2019 01:32 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Pac12Nets problems have to do with carriage. They’re not on DirecTV and got kicked off UVerse recently. Probably not available on many cable systems in the east. ESPN+ can be subscribed to by anyone with $5 and internet service. Until the P12 is available like ESPN+, not sure how they’re even comparable

The comparison is that both P12 and ESPN+ are committed to producing high quality (which means fairly expensive) broadcasts of programming with very narrow audiences. Which doesn't seem like a profitable endeavor

(BTN and the SEC network show some nonrevenue sports, but not to nearly the same degree, because they're not trying to fill 7 different channel feeds)

DirectTV aside, P12net and ESPN+ are both sports services that cable customers have to actively choose to have and pay for.

PACnet has two separate carriage problems: They're not on some systems AT ALL, and they're not on basic cable anywhere as far as I know. (Both of which stem from the same root--there's not that much demand for PAC 12 programming. But that's beside my point)

You don't have to be a cable subscriber to have ESPN+.

But you have to pay an extra $5 a month. It doesn't come with your basic cable package so the kids can watch Nickelodeon, or with a bundle of channels the cable company throws in for free to get you to not switch companies, or with a Sports Pack that you buy so you can see the MLB team you grew up watching.

ESPN+, PACnet, Netflix and HBO are all examples of standalone products. That's why I compared PACnet to ESPN+.

Quote:One of the biggest problems the PAC Network has is they attempt to do everything in house and in no universe does the PAC 12 have the same resources as one of the largest media giants in the world. With ESPN, they already have an extensive network of people and facilities that make any expansion of their coverage smoother and more profitable.

I'm utterly failing to make myself understood on this thread.

But the more I think about it, the more I wonder if the PACnet's cost problems are trivial--the real PACnet problem is not the money going out the door, it's the lack of money coming IN the door.
02-20-2019 03:24 PM
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 03:24 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  But you have to pay an extra $5 a month. It doesn't come with your basic cable package so the kids can watch Nickelodeon, or with a bundle of channels the cable company throws in for free to get you to not switch companies, or with a Sports Pack that you buy so you can see the MLB team you grew up watching.

ESPN+, PACnet, Netflix and HBO are all examples of standalone products. That's why I compared PACnet to ESPN+.

The Pac-12 Networks aren't a standalone product in the same way: either you get it through a broadly distributed cable package (e.g. usually "extended" basic cable within the Pac-12 markets or a cable sports pack outside of the Pac-12 markets) or you don't get it all. The Pac-12's model is to have a both a BTN/SECN-type national channel plus a targeted local channel in each Pac-12 market with all of it being on linear basic cable (or some other broadly distributed cable/satellite tier). There isn't any a la carte offering for the Pac-12 Network like ESPN+ or Netflix.
02-20-2019 04:08 PM
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 03:24 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-20-2019 03:13 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(02-20-2019 02:53 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-20-2019 01:32 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Pac12Nets problems have to do with carriage. They’re not on DirecTV and got kicked off UVerse recently. Probably not available on many cable systems in the east. ESPN+ can be subscribed to by anyone with $5 and internet service. Until the P12 is available like ESPN+, not sure how they’re even comparable

The comparison is that both P12 and ESPN+ are committed to producing high quality (which means fairly expensive) broadcasts of programming with very narrow audiences. Which doesn't seem like a profitable endeavor

(BTN and the SEC network show some nonrevenue sports, but not to nearly the same degree, because they're not trying to fill 7 different channel feeds)

DirectTV aside, P12net and ESPN+ are both sports services that cable customers have to actively choose to have and pay for.

PACnet has two separate carriage problems: They're not on some systems AT ALL, and they're not on basic cable anywhere as far as I know. (Both of which stem from the same root--there's not that much demand for PAC 12 programming. But that's beside my point)

You don't have to be a cable subscriber to have ESPN+.

But you have to pay an extra $5 a month. It doesn't come with your basic cable package so the kids can watch Nickelodeon, or with a bundle of channels the cable company throws in for free to get you to not switch companies, or with a Sports Pack that you buy so you can see the MLB team you grew up watching.

ESPN+, PACnet, Netflix and HBO are all examples of standalone products. That's why I compared PACnet to ESPN+.

Quote:One of the biggest problems the PAC Network has is they attempt to do everything in house and in no universe does the PAC 12 have the same resources as one of the largest media giants in the world. With ESPN, they already have an extensive network of people and facilities that make any expansion of their coverage smoother and more profitable.

I'm utterly failing to make myself understood on this thread.

But the more I think about it, the more I wonder if the PACnet's cost problems are trivial--the real PACnet problem is not the money going out the door, it's the lack of money coming IN the door.

Your last response is what really the problem is. You can blame the time zone and there’s some valid arguments to kickoffs being at 10/1030 EST, but not being able to get people watching, is the problem. You have to have Dish, which is not a sports lovers first choice and it’s on the level of BeInSports and the Tennis channel, not their peers of the Big Ten and SEC. Their sports performances are an issue too, which some will blame for the P12Net issues.
02-20-2019 04:40 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 04:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-20-2019 03:24 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  But you have to pay an extra $5 a month. It doesn't come with your basic cable package so the kids can watch Nickelodeon, or with a bundle of channels the cable company throws in for free to get you to not switch companies, or with a Sports Pack that you buy so you can see the MLB team you grew up watching.

ESPN+, PACnet, Netflix and HBO are all examples of standalone products. That's why I compared PACnet to ESPN+.

The Pac-12 Networks aren't a standalone product in the same way: either you get it through a broadly distributed cable package (e.g. usually "extended" basic cable within the Pac-12 markets or a cable sports pack outside of the Pac-12 markets) or you don't get it all. The Pac-12's model is to have a both a BTN/SECN-type national channel plus a targeted local channel in each Pac-12 market with all of it being on linear basic cable (or some other broadly distributed cable/satellite tier). There isn't any a la carte offering for the Pac-12 Network like ESPN+ or Netflix.

Thats what I was thinking. Basically, there is no carriage for ESPN-Plus. The consumer either buys it or they dont. The limiting factor for the Pac12 Network is basically access. On the other hand---if you get the internet--you have the ability to buy ESPN-Plus. ESPN-Plus is not limited by access---its subscriber base will be limited only by its desirability to consumers.
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2019 04:59 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-20-2019 04:55 PM
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 04:40 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Your last response is what really the problem is. You can blame the time zone and there’s some valid arguments to kickoffs being at 10/1030 EST, but not being able to get people watching, is the problem. You have to have Dish, which is not a sports lovers first choice and it’s on the level of BeInSports and the Tennis channel, not their peers of the Big Ten and SEC. Their sports performances are an issue too, which some will blame for the P12Net issues.

Frank just clued me in that PAC12net's coverage problems aren't as bad as I thought on their home turf. And according to the chronicle article, PAC12net producing more games than BTN or SEC Network, if you include the games on the BTN or SEC online portals.

So circling back to my original question, no, espn+ is probably not goingf to have a big problem with the costs of producing events with trivial audiences.
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2019 05:04 PM by johnbragg.)
02-20-2019 05:02 PM
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 05:02 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-20-2019 04:40 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Your last response is what really the problem is. You can blame the time zone and there’s some valid arguments to kickoffs being at 10/1030 EST, but not being able to get people watching, is the problem. You have to have Dish, which is not a sports lovers first choice and it’s on the level of BeInSports and the Tennis channel, not their peers of the Big Ten and SEC. Their sports performances are an issue too, which some will blame for the P12Net issues.

Frank just clued me in that PAC12net's coverage problems aren't as bad as I thought on their home turf. And according to the chronicle article, PAC12net producing more games than BTN or SEC Network, if you include the games on the BTN or SEC online portals.

So circling back to my original question, no, espn+ is probably not goingf to have a big problem with the costs of producing events with trivial audiences.

ESPN doesnt produce most of the college events on ESPN-Plus. They do kick in a little money to help upgrade on campus production facilities to ESPN-3 /Plus standards as part of the contract---but most of that third tier stuff is actually produced by the schools themselves and streamed to ESPN-3/Plus. ESPN basically just provides the streaming platform for many of the productions you find there---but incurs no production costs. That is not true of everything on ESPN+....but it is true in many instances.
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2019 05:16 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-20-2019 05:15 PM
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RE: Is ESPN+ going to have a PACnet problem?
(02-20-2019 04:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-20-2019 03:24 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  But you have to pay an extra $5 a month. It doesn't come with your basic cable package so the kids can watch Nickelodeon, or with a bundle of channels the cable company throws in for free to get you to not switch companies, or with a Sports Pack that you buy so you can see the MLB team you grew up watching.

ESPN+, PACnet, Netflix and HBO are all examples of standalone products. That's why I compared PACnet to ESPN+.

The Pac-12 Networks aren't a standalone product in the same way: either you get it through a broadly distributed cable package (e.g. usually "extended" basic cable within the Pac-12 markets or a cable sports pack outside of the Pac-12 markets) or you don't get it all. The Pac-12's model is to have a both a BTN/SECN-type national channel plus a targeted local channel in each Pac-12 market with all of it being on linear basic cable (or some other broadly distributed cable/satellite tier). There isn't any a la carte offering for the Pac-12 Network like ESPN+ or Netflix.

Pac12's model is a national channel (like FS1, ESPN, BTN or SECN) and an RSN like Comcast Chicago, Fox West or Altitude.

ESPN+ model is Hulu and Netflix or more accurately a niche streamer like Crunchy Roll or Britbox.
02-21-2019 12:06 AM
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