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Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-05-2019 08:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-04-2019 11:55 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(03-04-2019 03:55 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(03-02-2019 01:38 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You cannot boot an equity member of your company. And that is basically what conferences are these days.

This BTW is exactly why your stupid conference expansion ideas are terrible. You are stuck with schools for the next 100 years, or until the decide to leave. So never add a bottom dweller.

As for my old school, either the CSU charter is amended to allow freedom to be selective on admission and to have more rigorous specialties, or you will see San Jose State drop football and out of the MWC in the next 5 to 10 years -- lack of strong residential students lead to poor alumni interest. Fresno State is also in steep decline, faces similar and perhaps worse demographic trends, but they peaked a decade after us (we peaked late 80s they peaked a decade or so later), so their curve is a decade behind ours but not good either.

In a way these are survivors of the CSU collapse in the 90s, when Long Beach and Fullerton dropped 1-A football, and several D-II schools dropped Football and moved athletics to irrelevance. SJSU looks like it is just a few years away from that decision, Fresno State marching down that same road, but still has a small fire burning. IMO it's almost irreversible.

Bottom line, come 2025 the MWC wont have to do anything, SJSU will have made the decision for them. The death watch will shift to Fresno.

IMO it's the same forces of slow starvation at work in the CSU schools which have basically destroyed the MVC directional schools.

When will the governor of California quit kissing UC Berkeley’s butt and shift his attention to making the CSU schools more competitive, Stugray?? It seems like to me that the California state government treats UC system a lot like how the Alabama state government treats the U of A system; they get preferential treatment, IMO. End the preferential treatment and things might improve. Don’t do squat and it’s Long Beach State all over again, and more middle class flight from the state of California.

Never? The CSU system was built to be an undergraduate system (essentially to train teachers), and has evolved into one with just a few graduate programs, while the UC system was intended to be the comprehensive research-intensive universities. See, for example:

https://www.imperial.edu/ivc/files/WHAT_...FORNIA.pdf

Spending dwindling state resources to duplicate all of the infrastructure required to "(make) the CSU schools more competitive" would, by definition, have to come at the expense of the system set up to do this already.

USFFan

Yes. I think Texas should do a better job of emulating California.

The governor of Georgia (Sonny I think) was saying (and this is VERY true), the tech schools want to become Jr. Colleges. The Jr. Colleges want to become 4 year colleges. The state colleges want to become comprehensive universities. The comprehensive universities want to be research universities. And WHO knows what UGA wants to be!

Mission creep. The CSU's serve their role well and shouldn't try to serve another. The only thing California should have done different was probably to move Fresno to the UC system and open a new CSU school at Merced instead of the other way around.

Texas already acts too much like California. That is why UT is losing casual fan support around the state. Most Texans think the "40 Acres" looks less like Texas ever day. No wonder casual fan support for Texas A&M and other universities around the state is on the rise.
03-05-2019 08:17 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-05-2019 08:17 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(03-05-2019 08:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-04-2019 11:55 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(03-04-2019 03:55 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(03-02-2019 01:38 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You cannot boot an equity member of your company. And that is basically what conferences are these days.

This BTW is exactly why your stupid conference expansion ideas are terrible. You are stuck with schools for the next 100 years, or until the decide to leave. So never add a bottom dweller.

As for my old school, either the CSU charter is amended to allow freedom to be selective on admission and to have more rigorous specialties, or you will see San Jose State drop football and out of the MWC in the next 5 to 10 years -- lack of strong residential students lead to poor alumni interest. Fresno State is also in steep decline, faces similar and perhaps worse demographic trends, but they peaked a decade after us (we peaked late 80s they peaked a decade or so later), so their curve is a decade behind ours but not good either.

In a way these are survivors of the CSU collapse in the 90s, when Long Beach and Fullerton dropped 1-A football, and several D-II schools dropped Football and moved athletics to irrelevance. SJSU looks like it is just a few years away from that decision, Fresno State marching down that same road, but still has a small fire burning. IMO it's almost irreversible.

Bottom line, come 2025 the MWC wont have to do anything, SJSU will have made the decision for them. The death watch will shift to Fresno.

IMO it's the same forces of slow starvation at work in the CSU schools which have basically destroyed the MVC directional schools.

When will the governor of California quit kissing UC Berkeley’s butt and shift his attention to making the CSU schools more competitive, Stugray?? It seems like to me that the California state government treats UC system a lot like how the Alabama state government treats the U of A system; they get preferential treatment, IMO. End the preferential treatment and things might improve. Don’t do squat and it’s Long Beach State all over again, and more middle class flight from the state of California.

Never? The CSU system was built to be an undergraduate system (essentially to train teachers), and has evolved into one with just a few graduate programs, while the UC system was intended to be the comprehensive research-intensive universities. See, for example:

https://www.imperial.edu/ivc/files/WHAT_...FORNIA.pdf

Spending dwindling state resources to duplicate all of the infrastructure required to "(make) the CSU schools more competitive" would, by definition, have to come at the expense of the system set up to do this already.

USFFan

Yes. I think Texas should do a better job of emulating California.

The governor of Georgia (Sonny I think) was saying (and this is VERY true), the tech schools want to become Jr. Colleges. The Jr. Colleges want to become 4 year colleges. The state colleges want to become comprehensive universities. The comprehensive universities want to be research universities. And WHO knows what UGA wants to be!

Mission creep. The CSU's serve their role well and shouldn't try to serve another. The only thing California should have done different was probably to move Fresno to the UC system and open a new CSU school at Merced instead of the other way around.

Texas already acts too much like California. That is why UT is losing casual fan support around the state. Most Texans think the "40 Acres" looks less like Texas ever day. No wonder casual fan support for Texas A&M and other universities around the state is on the rise.

Yup. Austin is a weird place and proud of it. Good (funny) description of the greatest state:

03-05-2019 08:30 PM
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DawgNBama Online
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Post: #63
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-05-2019 08:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-04-2019 11:55 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(03-04-2019 03:55 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(03-02-2019 01:38 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You cannot boot an equity member of your company. And that is basically what conferences are these days.

This BTW is exactly why your stupid conference expansion ideas are terrible. You are stuck with schools for the next 100 years, or until the decide to leave. So never add a bottom dweller.

As for my old school, either the CSU charter is amended to allow freedom to be selective on admission and to have more rigorous specialties, or you will see San Jose State drop football and out of the MWC in the next 5 to 10 years -- lack of strong residential students lead to poor alumni interest. Fresno State is also in steep decline, faces similar and perhaps worse demographic trends, but they peaked a decade after us (we peaked late 80s they peaked a decade or so later), so their curve is a decade behind ours but not good either.

In a way these are survivors of the CSU collapse in the 90s, when Long Beach and Fullerton dropped 1-A football, and several D-II schools dropped Football and moved athletics to irrelevance. SJSU looks like it is just a few years away from that decision, Fresno State marching down that same road, but still has a small fire burning. IMO it's almost irreversible.

Bottom line, come 2025 the MWC wont have to do anything, SJSU will have made the decision for them. The death watch will shift to Fresno.

IMO it's the same forces of slow starvation at work in the CSU schools which have basically destroyed the MVC directional schools.

When will the governor of California quit kissing UC Berkeley’s butt and shift his attention to making the CSU schools more competitive, Stugray?? It seems like to me that the California state government treats UC system a lot like how the Alabama state government treats the U of A system; they get preferential treatment, IMO. End the preferential treatment and things might improve. Don’t do squat and it’s Long Beach State all over again, and more middle class flight from the state of California.

Never? The CSU system was built to be an undergraduate system (essentially to train teachers), and has evolved into one with just a few graduate programs, while the UC system was intended to be the comprehensive research-intensive universities. See, for example:

https://www.imperial.edu/ivc/files/WHAT_...FORNIA.pdf

Spending dwindling state resources to duplicate all of the infrastructure required to "(make) the CSU schools more competitive" would, by definition, have to come at the expense of the system set up to do this already.

USFFan

Yes. I think Texas should do a better job of emulating California.

The governor of Georgia (Sonny I think) was saying (and this is VERY true), the tech schools want to become Jr. Colleges. The Jr. Colleges want to become 4 year colleges. The state colleges want to become comprehensive universities. The comprehensive universities want to be research universities. And WHO knows what UGA wants to be!

Mission creep. The CSU's serve their role well and shouldn't try to serve another. The only thing California should have done different was probably to move Fresno to the UC system and open a new CSU school at Merced instead of the other way around.

I think UGA wants to be a research university like Florida. The real question is what on earth does GT want to be?? Do they even want to be a state university anymore???
03-06-2019 02:41 AM
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Stugray2 Online
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Post: #64
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
The issue I see is similar to Illinois.

The UC system provides 120K residential seats. But geven the population of California, it needs twice that many.

The change I'd like to see is a middle system, one that targeted the 6-15 percentile range of High School students (UC takes the top 6% although state claims 8% ... that means accepts, but forget the major you signed up for or the campus of choice for those above the 5 or 6 percentile).

It should focus on higher graduation rates than the commuter CSUs which are all well under 50% most under 25% for 4 years. Say 60-70% versus the UC rates of 80-90%. That means more selectivity and more competition. It also means building the support structure for residential students as opposed to JuCo transfers commuting. Those who live on campus or nearby and away from home do better than those commuting, and the numbers are not even close.

I only think this should be done with about 5 campuses, spread around the state. Those with FBS football are three of the ones with the resources and endowments that are already large enough to start.

I am not saying turn these into R1 research schools, rather R2, basically on par with say Utah State or several of the Big Sky schools. I am not saying compete with the UCs.

California has an unhealthy extreme gap between the success rates of the two systems. There is plenty of room for a few Miami of Ohio, William & Mary type undergraduate focused schools. Leave the Graduate to the UCs.

What is more I am convinced it could be done without huge expense. Improving the outcomes of the selected CSU campuses, with a charter that allows selectivity, would increase rapidly the graduated alumni base, and improve their alumni earnings. This in turn would lead to greater donations. Over the course of just a few years the investment would be recouped in donations

What I am suggesting is creating about 60,000 or so more residential seats. This would bring California more in line with it's neighbors and also with other large states around the country in a per capita basis. I am not saying build any new schools or add any massive amount of money, rather redirect some of it for a short time to build the facilities necessary to convert the existing campuses, taking advantage of resources.

California sends 100,000 students a year out of State for residential experience. I am targeting those lost $ Billions in tuition. If we can keep 1/4th of them in State with residential 2nd tier schools in a new system carved from the CSU, then it will have already paid for itself.
03-06-2019 04:14 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #65
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-06-2019 04:14 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The issue I see is similar to Illinois.

The UC system provides 120K residential seats. But geven the population of California, it needs twice that many.

The change I'd like to see is a middle system, one that targeted the 6-15 percentile range of High School students (UC takes the top 6% although state claims 8% ... that means accepts, but forget the major you signed up for or the campus of choice for those above the 5 or 6 percentile).

It should focus on higher graduation rates than the commuter CSUs which are all well under 50% most under 25% for 4 years. Say 60-70% versus the UC rates of 80-90%. That means more selectivity and more competition. It also means building the support structure for residential students as opposed to JuCo transfers commuting. Those who live on campus or nearby and away from home do better than those commuting, and the numbers are not even close.

I only think this should be done with about 5 campuses, spread around the state. Those with FBS football are three of the ones with the resources and endowments that are already large enough to start.

I am not saying turn these into R1 research schools, rather R2, basically on par with say Utah State or several of the Big Sky schools. I am not saying compete with the UCs.

California has an unhealthy extreme gap between the success rates of the two systems. There is plenty of room for a few Miami of Ohio, William & Mary type undergraduate focused schools. Leave the Graduate to the UCs.

What is more I am convinced it could be done without huge expense. Improving the outcomes of the selected CSU campuses, with a charter that allows selectivity, would increase rapidly the graduated alumni base, and improve their alumni earnings. This in turn would lead to greater donations. Over the course of just a few years the investment would be recouped in donations

What I am suggesting is creating about 60,000 or so more residential seats. This would bring California more in line with it's neighbors and also with other large states around the country in a per capita basis. I am not saying build any new schools or add any massive amount of money, rather redirect some of it for a short time to build the facilities necessary to convert the existing campuses, taking advantage of resources.

California sends 100,000 students a year out of State for residential experience. I am targeting those lost $ Billions in tuition. If we can keep 1/4th of them in State with residential 2nd tier schools in a new system carved from the CSU, then it will have already paid for itself.

I agree. The citizens of CA need another in state option than what amounts to commuter schools and I agree--5 campuses for the new "middle ground" system feel about right, maybe 6. San Diego St, San Jose St, Fresno St, Cal Poly, and one other make the most sense. Probably a school in the LA area.
03-06-2019 08:27 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-06-2019 08:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 04:14 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The issue I see is similar to Illinois.

The UC system provides 120K residential seats. But geven the population of California, it needs twice that many.

The change I'd like to see is a middle system, one that targeted the 6-15 percentile range of High School students (UC takes the top 6% although state claims 8% ... that means accepts, but forget the major you signed up for or the campus of choice for those above the 5 or 6 percentile).

It should focus on higher graduation rates than the commuter CSUs which are all well under 50% most under 25% for 4 years. Say 60-70% versus the UC rates of 80-90%. That means more selectivity and more competition. It also means building the support structure for residential students as opposed to JuCo transfers commuting. Those who live on campus or nearby and away from home do better than those commuting, and the numbers are not even close.

I only think this should be done with about 5 campuses, spread around the state. Those with FBS football are three of the ones with the resources and endowments that are already large enough to start.

I am not saying turn these into R1 research schools, rather R2, basically on par with say Utah State or several of the Big Sky schools. I am not saying compete with the UCs.

California has an unhealthy extreme gap between the success rates of the two systems. There is plenty of room for a few Miami of Ohio, William & Mary type undergraduate focused schools. Leave the Graduate to the UCs.

What is more I am convinced it could be done without huge expense. Improving the outcomes of the selected CSU campuses, with a charter that allows selectivity, would increase rapidly the graduated alumni base, and improve their alumni earnings. This in turn would lead to greater donations. Over the course of just a few years the investment would be recouped in donations

What I am suggesting is creating about 60,000 or so more residential seats. This would bring California more in line with it's neighbors and also with other large states around the country in a per capita basis. I am not saying build any new schools or add any massive amount of money, rather redirect some of it for a short time to build the facilities necessary to convert the existing campuses, taking advantage of resources.

California sends 100,000 students a year out of State for residential experience. I am targeting those lost $ Billions in tuition. If we can keep 1/4th of them in State with residential 2nd tier schools in a new system carved from the CSU, then it will have already paid for itself.

I agree. The citizens of CA need another in state option than what amounts to commuter schools and I agree--5 campuses for the new "middle ground" system feel about right, maybe 6. San Diego St, San Jose St, Fresno St, Cal Poly, and one other make the most sense. Probably a school in the LA area.

Isn't there already a lot of bureaucratic redundancy with just two state school systems in California?
03-06-2019 09:21 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-06-2019 08:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The citizens of CA need another in state option than what amounts to commuter schools and I agree--5 campuses for the new "middle ground" system feel about right, maybe 6. San Diego St, San Jose St, Fresno St, Cal Poly, and one other make the most sense. Probably a school in the LA area.

There's no point in rebranding just for the sake of rebranding. There's already, essentially, a pecking order that students understand. You can see by looking at the percentage of applicants offered admission at each Cal State campus:

Cal Poly San Luis Obispo: 31%
San Diego State: 34%
Long Beach State: 36%
Cal Poly Pomona: 39%
Cal State Fullerton: 42%
Cal State Northridge: 45%

Or you can use test scores if you like, which gives you a slightly different ranking -- top five in average test scores, in order, are Cal Poly-SLO, San Diego State, Cal Poly-Pomona, San Jose State, and Long Beach State.
03-07-2019 02:18 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
There is something that is a concern with the California schools right now. They are looking at how their athletics running in debt. The schools without football is struggling more since basketball is not bringing in the money. The large schools in the Big West and D2 have been looking at adding football to improve their image and get some body bag games. There have been talk about schools like Long Beach State want to join MWC and are willing to do, but they can't join unless they added football. If the MWC split into 2 separate conferences, one for west coast and one for the Rocky Mountains could help if those Big West schools add football. San Jose State might get fans into their stadium if Cal. Poly, Sacramento State and UC-Davis were in the same conference. We might need to look at how we can work out in another thread of what the G5 conferences would look like in the future in another thread.
03-07-2019 12:16 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #69
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-07-2019 02:18 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 08:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The citizens of CA need another in state option than what amounts to commuter schools and I agree--5 campuses for the new "middle ground" system feel about right, maybe 6. San Diego St, San Jose St, Fresno St, Cal Poly, and one other make the most sense. Probably a school in the LA area.

There's no point in rebranding just for the sake of rebranding. There's already, essentially, a pecking order that students understand. You can see by looking at the percentage of applicants offered admission at each Cal State campus:

Cal Poly San Luis Obispo: 31%
San Diego State: 34%
Long Beach State: 36%
Cal Poly Pomona: 39%
Cal State Fullerton: 42%
Cal State Northridge: 45%

Or you can use test scores if you like, which gives you a slightly different ranking -- top five in average test scores, in order, are Cal Poly-SLO, San Diego State, Cal Poly-Pomona, San Jose State, and Long Beach State.

Maybe it's not a new system per say but instead the top 6 or so Cal St's become more residential in nature and are given the freedom to issue masters and doctorates and can be more selective with admissions than their Cal St brethren.
03-07-2019 08:54 PM
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billings Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-02-2019 11:09 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-02-2019 10:57 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(03-02-2019 09:52 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I have said that MWC 2.0 is no better than the WAC of the previous decade as its mostly the same teams and MWC left overs without BYU, TCU and Utah in it.

Will ESPN drop them entirely in the next TV deal with its new investment in the AAC? That would be my biggest question right now.

The MWC provides late time slot live events for ESPN networks. Most Tuesdays and Wednesdays they have a 10 or 11 pm EST tip off. How many AAC teams will have tip offs that late every week?

That has been the MWC's traditional niche.

But what if the AAC with its central timezone teams could offer 9pm tip offs CST? It might not be quite the same time coverage as the MWC but could partially fill.

The ESPN can fill with the later hours with world's strongest man competitions or international tennis if it wanted to over second half MWC action.


Nobody in the west cares abou or would watch midwestern AAC teams. Just like nobody in the east cares about MWC teams. ESPN ratings in the west would fall
03-07-2019 09:28 PM
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Post: #71
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-07-2019 09:28 PM)billings Wrote:  
(03-02-2019 11:09 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(03-02-2019 10:57 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(03-02-2019 09:52 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  I have said that MWC 2.0 is no better than the WAC of the previous decade as its mostly the same teams and MWC left overs without BYU, TCU and Utah in it.

Will ESPN drop them entirely in the next TV deal with its new investment in the AAC? That would be my biggest question right now.

The MWC provides late time slot live events for ESPN networks. Most Tuesdays and Wednesdays they have a 10 or 11 pm EST tip off. How many AAC teams will have tip offs that late every week?

That has been the MWC's traditional niche.

But what if the AAC with its central timezone teams could offer 9pm tip offs CST? It might not be quite the same time coverage as the MWC but could partially fill.

The ESPN can fill with the later hours with world's strongest man competitions or international tennis if it wanted to over second half MWC action.


Nobody in the west cares abou or would watch midwestern AAC teams. Just like nobody in the east cares about MWC teams. ESPN ratings in the west would fall

I think the only exceptions could be BYU and Boise State.
03-07-2019 10:34 PM
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Sactowndog Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-04-2019 11:55 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(03-04-2019 03:55 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(03-02-2019 01:38 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You cannot boot an equity member of your company. And that is basically what conferences are these days.

This BTW is exactly why your stupid conference expansion ideas are terrible. You are stuck with schools for the next 100 years, or until the decide to leave. So never add a bottom dweller.

As for my old school, either the CSU charter is amended to allow freedom to be selective on admission and to have more rigorous specialties, or you will see San Jose State drop football and out of the MWC in the next 5 to 10 years -- lack of strong residential students lead to poor alumni interest. Fresno State is also in steep decline, faces similar and perhaps worse demographic trends, but they peaked a decade after us (we peaked late 80s they peaked a decade or so later), so their curve is a decade behind ours but not good either.

In a way these are survivors of the CSU collapse in the 90s, when Long Beach and Fullerton dropped 1-A football, and several D-II schools dropped Football and moved athletics to irrelevance. SJSU looks like it is just a few years away from that decision, Fresno State marching down that same road, but still has a small fire burning. IMO it's almost irreversible.

Bottom line, come 2025 the MWC wont have to do anything, SJSU will have made the decision for them. The death watch will shift to Fresno.

IMO it's the same forces of slow starvation at work in the CSU schools which have basically destroyed the MVC directional schools.

When will the governor of California quit kissing UC Berkeley’s butt and shift his attention to making the CSU schools more competitive, Stugray?? It seems like to me that the California state government treats UC system a lot like how the Alabama state government treats the U of A system; they get preferential treatment, IMO. End the preferential treatment and things might improve. Don’t do squat and it’s Long Beach State all over again, and more middle class flight from the state of California.

Never? The CSU system was built to be an undergraduate system (essentially to train teachers), and has evolved into one with just a few graduate programs, while the UC system was intended to be the comprehensive research-intensive universities. See, for example:

https://www.imperial.edu/ivc/files/WHAT_...FORNIA.pdf

Spending dwindling state resources to duplicate all of the infrastructure required to "(make) the CSU schools more competitive" would, by definition, have to come at the expense of the system set up to do this already.

USFFan

Your link is a plan that was created in the 50’s. It’s an obsolete plan in a global economy where IP is critical to success. A modern plan would have the UC’s focused on pure sciences and research while the Cal States focused on applied research.
03-08-2019 12:08 AM
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Sactowndog Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-07-2019 02:18 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 08:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The citizens of CA need another in state option than what amounts to commuter schools and I agree--5 campuses for the new "middle ground" system feel about right, maybe 6. San Diego St, San Jose St, Fresno St, Cal Poly, and one other make the most sense. Probably a school in the LA area.

There's no point in rebranding just for the sake of rebranding. There's already, essentially, a pecking order that students understand. You can see by looking at the percentage of applicants offered admission at each Cal State campus:

Cal Poly San Luis Obispo: 31%
San Diego State: 34%
Long Beach State: 36%
Cal Poly Pomona: 39%
Cal State Fullerton: 42%
Cal State Northridge: 45%

Or you can use test scores if you like, which gives you a slightly different ranking -- top five in average test scores, in order, are Cal Poly-SLO, San Diego State, Cal Poly-Pomona, San Jose State, and Long Beach State.

Again this highlights while CA needs to split in 2. What is common about those schools is they are in the major coastal population centers.
03-08-2019 12:11 AM
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Post: #74
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-07-2019 08:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(03-07-2019 02:18 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-06-2019 08:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The citizens of CA need another in state option than what amounts to commuter schools and I agree--5 campuses for the new "middle ground" system feel about right, maybe 6. San Diego St, San Jose St, Fresno St, Cal Poly, and one other make the most sense. Probably a school in the LA area.

There's no point in rebranding just for the sake of rebranding. There's already, essentially, a pecking order that students understand. You can see by looking at the percentage of applicants offered admission at each Cal State campus:

Cal Poly San Luis Obispo: 31%
San Diego State: 34%
Long Beach State: 36%
Cal Poly Pomona: 39%
Cal State Fullerton: 42%
Cal State Northridge: 45%

Or you can use test scores if you like, which gives you a slightly different ranking -- top five in average test scores, in order, are Cal Poly-SLO, San Diego State, Cal Poly-Pomona, San Jose State, and Long Beach State.

Maybe it's not a new system per say but instead the top 6 or so Cal St's become more residential in nature and are given the freedom to issue masters and doctorates and can be more selective with admissions than their Cal St brethren.

Those campuses are already more selective than the others, and are far more selective than the newest handful of Cal State campuses.

Cal Poly SLO, Cal Poly Pomona, and SDSU already require (single, under-21) first-year students to live on campus, and IIRC Cal Poly SLO has a pretty decent supply of student housing for upperclassmen as well. Most of the others listed above don't have available land to add significant student housing to what they already have.
03-08-2019 01:52 AM
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AuzGrams Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
Giving San Jose State the boot would make sense if they booted another team to go down to 10 for football, but no other team is going to be booted either. They provide a decent recruiting base and good TV market to stay in the league.

Occasionally the football program has a decent season or 2. They've had a 9-4, 11-2, and 6-7 seasons since 2006 so the football program isn't completely bad.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2019 01:58 AM by AuzGrams.)
03-08-2019 01:55 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
Here is a question. What if Fullerton State and Long Beach State kept football? Who would be number 12? Which 2 would be stuck in the WAC for all sports?

I would have chosen Fullerton State over San Jose State.
Long Beach State and San Jose State would be stuck as independent FBS members just like New Mexico State. Those 3 and Idaho could rebuild the WAC for FBS.
03-08-2019 02:47 PM
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DawgNBama Online
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Post: #77
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
Poor choice, IMO, DavidSt. SJSU is the oldest of the Cal State schools (even predating UCLA!!, according to what I read on one internet article) and is still devoted in to football. Fullerton State, not so much, and Fullerton State is more of a commuter school too.
03-08-2019 08:58 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #78
RE: Time For MWC To Boot San Jose State?
(03-08-2019 02:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Here is a question. What if Fullerton State and Long Beach State kept football? Who would be number 12? Which 2 would be stuck in the WAC for all sports?

I would have chosen Fullerton State over San Jose State.
Long Beach State and San Jose State would be stuck as independent FBS members just like New Mexico State. Those 3 and Idaho could rebuild the WAC for FBS.

If those two never drop football then they are both still in the WAC and it still has FBS football.

Idaho
NMSU
Cal St Fullerton
Long Beach St
Cal Poly
Sac St
UC Davis
Montana
Montana St
03-08-2019 09:11 PM
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