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What the heck is wrong with BYU?
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C2__ Offline
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What the heck is wrong with BYU?
They did way better in the MWC than WCC despite the step down in competition.
03-10-2019 04:00 AM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #2
RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
BYU under Dave Rose
[MWC]
20-9
25-9
27-8
25-8
30-6 (Jimmer)
32-5 (Jimmer)
[WCC]
26-9
24-12
23-12
25-10
26-11
22-12
24-11
19-12

You know what happened? Gonzaga and Saint Mary’s happened. BYU averaged 8/9 losses (Jimmer chopped off 2/3), joined the WCC, and Gonzaga/Saint Mary’s added another 2/3 losses.
03-10-2019 04:19 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
Because they had one "down" season (19 wins) in the last 14 years? Maybe you could cut them a little slack. And I don't think everybody would accept the premise that the WCC is a step down. It's not like the MWC has been racking up a lot of at-large bids lately.

This year, the WCC had four quality teams: Gonzaga, St Mary's, BYU and San Fransisco. The Cougars were only 1-5 against the other three, and they also had losses to Nevada, Houston and Mississippi State - none of them slouches.
03-10-2019 07:46 AM
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CoastalVANDAL Offline
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
Without looking it up I bet the WCC has had more bids since adding BYU.
The top of the WCC has been better than the top of the MWC.
03-10-2019 08:16 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
(03-10-2019 08:16 AM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Without looking it up I bet the WCC has had more bids since adding BYU.
The top of the WCC has been better than the top of the MWC.

Well, Gonzaga has pretty much been at or above the best the MWC has had in the last 10-15 years. SMC is more like a consistent threat in the conference, but not top-tier for MWC.

Try as the tabernacle might, you can’t brainwash the kind of athletes you used to get in WAC/MWC when it was clear the conference was still one of the better ones in the country. Gonzaga is elite, don’t get me wrong, but I doubt you can thrill recruits with the rest of that schedule.

And, let’s be quite honest about this. BYU thought it was better than the MWC, and only their fans believe that. Them leaving was about money, not competitive program advancement. That becomes much easier to recruit against...that it was about money and perceived greatness and not about actual winning (which shows in both basketball and football now).
03-10-2019 09:09 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #6
RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
BYU just lost in their first round conference tourney game to San Diego.

Reality is biting them playing in the WCC. They have never finish above third in that conference.
03-10-2019 09:55 AM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Post: #7
What the heck is wrong with BYU?
They did not just lose, they got crushed 46-19 at half.


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03-10-2019 10:51 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
(03-10-2019 09:09 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(03-10-2019 08:16 AM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  Without looking it up I bet the WCC has had more bids since adding BYU.
The top of the WCC has been better than the top of the MWC.

Well, Gonzaga has pretty much been at or above the best the MWC has had in the last 10-15 years. SMC is more like a consistent threat in the conference, but not top-tier for MWC.

Try as the tabernacle might, you can’t brainwash the kind of athletes you used to get in WAC/MWC when it was clear the conference was still one of the better ones in the country. Gonzaga is elite, don’t get me wrong, but I doubt you can thrill recruits with the rest of that schedule.

And, let’s be quite honest about this. BYU thought it was better than the MWC, and only their fans believe that. Them leaving was about money, not competitive program advancement. That becomes much easier to recruit against...that it was about money and perceived greatness and not about actual winning (which shows in both basketball and football now).

To be fair—BYU willingly left the Mountain West in football. BYU was basically kicked out of the Mountain West for Olympic sports. BYU would have preferred to leave thier Olympic sports in the MW, but the MW refused to allow that.
03-10-2019 11:00 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
Well, for a while San Diego State, Boise State and Colorado State had the most 20 + wins in the same year between 2010 to 2016. Wyoming and UNR have been surprising at times. You never think UNR be better in basketball than UNLV. Thrust Gonzaga, BYU and Saint Mary's into the MWC and see them get crushed with more loses. MWC is better than WCC in men's basketball.
03-10-2019 11:13 AM
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Post: #10
RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
(03-10-2019 09:09 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  And, let’s be quite honest about this. BYU thought it was better than the MWC, and only their fans believe that. Them leaving was about money, not competitive program advancement. That becomes much easier to recruit against...that it was about money and perceived greatness and not about actual winning (which shows in both basketball and football now).

To be fair to BYU’s fan base, it’s really just the segment of 40-60 year olds who grew up during the Lavell Edwards era and were blissfully unaware of what came before and are equally resistant to grasping what’s happening after. That entitled segment gives the rest a bad name. Granted that demographic makes up almost the entire BYU fan base because BYU had no fan base before Edwards and has diminishingly few in the under 40 age group. But still, many of the younger fans would love to be in a conference but moving east with Boise and friends seems to be the preference.
03-10-2019 11:58 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
Still probably one of the dumbest and avoidable mistakes made by emotion rather than logic during that stretch. To think what would be the current MWC and possibly the WAC had the Cougs just weathered through all of that crazy.

I’m not convinced Gonzaga stays with the WCC. When BYU will then have to face the music of what only a few think was a good decision.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2019 02:13 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
03-10-2019 02:13 PM
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oliveandblue Offline
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Post: #12
RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
(03-10-2019 02:13 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Still probably one of the dumbest and avoidable mistakes made by emotion rather than logic during that stretch. To think what would be the current MWC and possibly the WAC had the Cougs just weathered through all of that crazy.

I’m not convinced Gonzaga stays with the WCC. When BYU will then have to face the music of what only a few think was a good decision.

...and go where, exactly? Back to the MW?
03-10-2019 02:44 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Post: #13
What the heck is wrong with BYU?
In response to the opening question what is wrong with BYU, my answer is absolutely nothing. They need to just ke doing what they do,


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03-10-2019 03:12 PM
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C2__ Offline
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
(03-10-2019 07:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  Because they had one "down" season (19 wins) in the last 14 years? Maybe you could cut them a little slack. And I don't think everybody would accept the premise that the WCC is a step down. It's not like the MWC has been racking up a lot of at-large bids lately.

This year, the WCC had four quality teams: Gonzaga, St Mary's, BYU and San Fransisco. The Cougars were only 1-5 against the other three, and they also had losses to Nevada, Houston and Mississippi State - none of them slouches.

No because they've struggled in WCC, even outside Gonzaga and SMC. They're not and have rarely been clearly better than their WCC brethern.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2019 05:41 PM by C2__.)
03-10-2019 05:35 PM
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C2__ Offline
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
(03-10-2019 09:55 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  BYU just lost in their first round conference tourney game to San Diego.

Reality is biting them playing in the WCC. They have never finish above third in that conference.

Yep, that was my point. They have way more resources than anyone in that league, yet are usually only above average.
03-10-2019 05:38 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
(03-10-2019 05:35 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(03-10-2019 07:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  Because they had one "down" season (19 wins) in the last 14 years? Maybe you could cut them a little slack. And I don't think everybody would accept the premise that the WCC is a step down. It's not like the MWC has been racking up a lot of at-large bids lately.

This year, the WCC had four quality teams: Gonzaga, St Mary's, BYU and San Fransisco. The Cougars were only 1-5 against the other three, and they also had losses to Nevada, Houston and Mississippi State - none of them slouches.

No because they've struggled in WCC, even outside Gonzaga and SMC. They're not and have rarely been clearly better than their WCC brethern.

Maybe that's just a case for arguing that the WCC is a tougher conference than the MWC.
03-10-2019 07:57 PM
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C2__ Offline
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
It's not, there are factors that lead to these type of scenarios. If BYU won like they did in the old MWC, why not in the WCC outside Gonzaga.
03-10-2019 09:29 PM
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Todor Offline
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
According to RPI rankings, the WCC is considerably higher than the Mountain West right now, so that alone might be your explanation.
03-10-2019 09:38 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
(03-10-2019 09:29 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  It's not, there are factors that lead to these type of scenarios. If BYU won like they did in the old MWC, why not in the WCC outside Gonzaga.

They’ve finished 3rd 6x and 2nd twice. It’s the same program (sans Jimmer). Just Gonzaga and Saint Mary’s thrown in the mix.
03-10-2019 10:06 PM
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RE: What the heck is wrong with BYU?
BYU never had any degree of athletic success until they formed the WAC and left USU behind. That move propelled BYU ahead of USU and gave them a platform from which to reach higher. Now that BYU is back on par with USU from a conference perception standpoint, the power structure is shifting back to the pre-WAC dynamic. That's good news for USU and bad news for BYU.

BYU vs USU by era
Pre-WAC: 13-21-3
WAC: 23-12
MWC: 7-1
Indy: 5-3 (lost last two 24-40, 20-45)

BYU vs Utah by era
Pre-WAC: 2-32-4
WAC: 24-13
MWC: 5-7
Indy: 0-7

Utah vs USU by era
Pre-WAC: 44-13-4
WAC: 22-15
MWC: 11-0
PAC: 2-1
03-11-2019 12:42 AM
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