Interesting tid bit:

Mick says the coaches player of the year picks were due to be submitted BEFORE Sunday’s game. At least he submitted his that way and that’s the way he understood it.

Mick Voted for Davis.

I’d think Sampson voted for Cumberland. So they’d cancel each other out.

The AAC is really stupid if the submission was due the day before the last game


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Because of jarron’s late season skid, id vote for the best player on the best team.

But I also don’t think Corey Davis is the best player. He has so much help that you can’t pay too much attention to him especially with Jarreau on the floor.

UC’s roster is mostly jarron and the role players. I think if you removed jarron from cincinnati and added Corey Davis, that cincinnati would win 25 games. The same goes for Martin.

Add in that Jarron is just a JR, I think he is the best player in the league. That said, his skid hurts him. And I’m perfectly fine giving it to a player on the winner of the league.





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(03-12-2019 04:05 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  Interesting tid bit:

Mick says the coaches player of the year picks were due to be submitted BEFORE Sunday’s game. At least he submitted his that way and that’s the way he understood it.

Mick Voted for Davis.

I’d think Sampson voted for Cumberland. So they’d cancel each other out.

The AAC is really stupid if the submission was due the day before the last game


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They had to submit their pick by the end of day Sunday. Your little leprechaun is a liarface.

HuskyU is the AAC POY (Poster of the Year)

She deserves it...

(03-12-2019 01:24 PM)tccoog10 Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 12:59 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 12:00 PM)tccoog10 Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 11:31 AM)TripleA Wrote:  This is Player of the Year, not Most Valuable. That to me points more to individual stats than to team performance.

Fair enough, but it's not "Offensive Player of the Year", either. Corey impacts winning on both ends of the court more than any other player in this conference, and the stats show that.

How's that considering Martin is the only one on the statistical board among the 3 considered in steals?

Seriously? There are WAY more important metrics to evaluate a player's impact defensively than just looking at steals. James Harden is 2nd in the NBA in steals. Do you think he's a good defensive player simply because of that?

As I said before in this post, there is only one player in the conference in the Top 6 in both Offensive and Defensive Win Shares, and its Corey Davis. He also is #1 in the AAC in Total Win Shares.

Basically, Win Shares, both Offensive and Defensive, calculate how much a players points produced/allowed per possession affected the outcomes for his team. That, to me, is way more important than just looking at who had the most steals, blocks, etc.

Especially on defense that is a VERY subjective & possibly irrelevant stat, it could simply mean Davis plays the weakest opponent to achieve the high rating (not saying he does but the stat is that subjective).

(03-12-2019 04:09 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  Because of jarron’s late season skid, id vote for the best player on the best team.

But I also don’t think Corey Davis is the best player. He has so much help that you can’t pay too much attention to him especially with Jarreau on the floor.

UC’s roster is mostly jarron and the role players. I think if you removed jarron from Cincinnati and added Corey Davis, that Cincinnati wouldn't win 25 games. The same goes for Martin.

Add in that Jarron is just a JR, I think he is the best player in the league. That said, his skid hurts him. And I’m perfectly fine giving it to a player on the winner of the league.





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i dont think corey davis is the most talented player, i dont even think he is the most talented on our roster..
but he is playing the best

*including defense* i dont think anyone is playing the best ball in the aac..he isnt just "the best player on the best team"
and the dejon part is weak as dejon only came alive 7/8 games ago....corey has been our leading scorer all season..and defenses are focused on stopping corey not dejon..

also i think you meant "wouldnt" not would....and i disagree ..you have elite post defense..imagine posting corey davis next to Keith Williams on the perimeter also...who is scoring on cincy?? and skip the Cumberland can play defense as good argument, your head coach 2 days ago said he was playing horrible defense, and insinuated houston was targeting him on switches..

hot take:...i think cincy is just as talented as houston: Sampson is just better at developing offense ....
dejon couldnt hit a contested layup at the start of the season/preseason ...Sampson talked about how he had to develop his form and how he finishes ..now he's auto
dejon also started 1-9 from 3 to start the season (11%)..he is now showing gone 11-20 since (55%)

mick insinuated this game was kind of lucky break for houston that hinton is 28% 3point shooter and went 4 for 4...ignoring hinton is 17 of his last 33 3s (51%).
this is literally from yesterday in a funny moment from UHs coaches show: "when Hinton came here, he was a shooter.. not a maker..we developed him into a good shooter, but still has ways to go before we even touch his ceiling"

mick in the UC coaches show yesterday (Logan johnson and Kieth Williams are not very good in non transition offense): he said what Johnson needed to work on this offseason is "decision making" and Kieth Williams "better assist to turnover ratio".. i dont think mick develops offense, i think he works with what you have coming in and just adds muscle to it

(03-12-2019 04:36 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 01:24 PM)tccoog10 Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 12:59 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 12:00 PM)tccoog10 Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 11:31 AM)TripleA Wrote:  This is Player of the Year, not Most Valuable. That to me points more to individual stats than to team performance.

Fair enough, but it's not "Offensive Player of the Year", either. Corey impacts winning on both ends of the court more than any other player in this conference, and the stats show that.

How's that considering Martin is the only one on the statistical board among the 3 considered in steals?

Seriously? There are WAY more important metrics to evaluate a player's impact defensively than just looking at steals. James Harden is 2nd in the NBA in steals. Do you think he's a good defensive player simply because of that?

As I said before in this post, there is only one player in the conference in the Top 6 in both Offensive and Defensive Win Shares, and its Corey Davis. He also is #1 in the AAC in Total Win Shares.

Basically, Win Shares, both Offensive and Defensive, calculate how much a players points produced/allowed per possession affected the outcomes for his team. That, to me, is way more important than just looking at who had the most steals, blocks, etc.

Especially on defense that is a VERY subjective & possibly irrelevant stat, it could simply mean Davis plays the weakest opponent to achieve the high rating (not saying he does but the stat is that subjective).

im guessing you havent watched houston play much this year... corey has been put on the top scorer of every opposing team this year..

galen robinson, laquincy rideau & corey davis...are in a league of there own in perimeter defense in the aac

with kieth williams and christian vital are in the tier just below
*in how they are playing right now ..not talking future potential

here is a mini clip of Corey playing defense ..note the guy the announcer say "they feel sorry for" , Sam Merrill..just won the MWC player of the year (over the nba nevada twins)
https://streamable.com/cjgwu

(03-12-2019 05:23 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 04:09 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  Because of jarron’s late season skid, id vote for the best player on the best team.

But I also don’t think Corey Davis is the best player. He has so much help that you can’t pay too much attention to him especially with Jarreau on the floor.

UC’s roster is mostly jarron and the role players. I think if you removed jarron from cincinnati and added Corey Davis, that cincinnati wouldn't win 25 games. The same goes for Martin.

Add in that Jarron is just a JR, I think he is the best player in the league. That said, his skid hurts him. And I’m perfectly fine giving it to a player on the winner of the league.





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i dont think corey davis is the most talented player, i dont even think he is the most talented on our roster..
but he is playing the best

*including defense* i dont think anyone is playing the best ball in the aac..he isnt just "the best player on the best team"
and the dejon part is weak as dejon only came alive 7/8 games ago....corey has been our leading scorer all season..and defenses are focused on stopping corey not dejon..

also i think you meant "wouldnt" not would....and i disagree ..you have elite post defense..imagine posting corey davis next to Keith Williams on the perimeter also...who is scoring on cincy?? and skip the Cumberland can play defense as good argument, your head coach 2 days ago said he was playing horrible defense, and insinuated houston was targeting him on switches..

hot take:...i think cincy is just as talented as houston: Sampson is just better at developing offense ....
dejon couldnt hit a contested layup at the start of the season/preseason ...sampson talked about how he had to develop him form and how he finishes ..now he's auto
dejon also started 1-9 from 3 to start the season (11%)..he is now showing gone 11-20 since (55%)

mick insinuated this game was kind of lucky break for houston that hinton is 28% 3point shooter and went 4 for 4...ignoring hinton is 17 of his last 33 3s (51%).
this is literally from yesterday in a funny moment from UHs coaches show: "when hinton came here, he was a shooter.. not a maker..we developed him into a good shooter, but still has ways to go before we even touch his ceiling"

mick in the UC coaches show yesterday (Logan johnson and Kieth Williams are not very good in non transition offense): he said what Johnson needed to work on this offseason is "decision making" and Kieth Williams "better assist to turnover ratio".. i dont think mick develops offense, i think he works with what you have coming in and just adds muscle to it

That’s a hot take if I ever heard one.

Houston brings an NBA player off its bench. Galen Robinson is a ball stopper on defense. Uc has no one who shoots nearly as well as Armoni Brooks.


Uc has Jarron. And the. Gets various support from different guys each night.

Corey Davis has Jarreau, Brooks, and then a penetrating guard like Robinson.

Offensively Houston has much more talent and fire power.

I think Keith Williams could become an all league guy next season but this season, he’s struggled with consistently being good. And that’s expected from a guy playing spot minutes to being a starter.

Our two PG’s wouldn’t start on even USF’s roster.

Now, had UC returned Jacob Evans like he built this team around then I’d say it’s a little closer but imo Houston is far and away more offensively talent and most importantly, experienced.


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(03-12-2019 05:23 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 04:09 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  Because of jarron’s late season skid, id vote for the best player on the best team.

But I also don’t think Corey Davis is the best player. He has so much help that you can’t pay too much attention to him especially with Jarreau on the floor.

UC’s roster is mostly jarron and the role players. I think if you removed jarron from Cincinnati and added Corey Davis, that Cincinnati wouldn't win 25 games. The same goes for Martin.

Add in that Jarron is just a JR, I think he is the best player in the league. That said, his skid hurts him. And I’m perfectly fine giving it to a player on the winner of the league.





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i dont think corey davis is the most talented player, i dont even think he is the most talented on our roster..
but he is playing the best

*including defense* i dont think anyone is playing the best ball in the aac..he isnt just "the best player on the best team"
and the dejon part is weak as dejon only came alive 7/8 games ago....corey has been our leading scorer all season..and defenses are focused on stopping corey not dejon..

also i think you meant "wouldnt" not would....and i disagree ..you have elite post defense..imagine posting corey davis next to Keith Williams on the perimeter also...who is scoring on cincy?? and skip the Cumberland can play defense as good argument, your head coach 2 days ago said he was playing horrible defense, and insinuated houston was targeting him on switches..

hot take:...i think cincy is just as talented as houston: Sampson is just better at developing offense ....
dejon couldnt hit a contested layup at the start of the season/preseason ...Sampson talked about how he had to develop his form and how he finishes ..now he's auto
dejon also started 1-9 from 3 to start the season (11%)..he is now showing gone 11-20 since (55%)

mick insinuated this game was kind of lucky break for houston that hinton is 28% 3point shooter and went 4 for 4...ignoring hinton is 17 of his last 33 3s (51%).
this is literally from yesterday in a funny moment from UHs coaches show: "when Hinton came here, he was a shooter.. not a maker..we developed him into a good shooter, but still has ways to go before we even touch his ceiling"

mick in the UC coaches show yesterday (Logan johnson and Kieth Williams are not very good in non transition offense): he said what Johnson needed to work on this offseason is "decision making" and Kieth Williams "better assist to turnover ratio".. i dont think mick develops offense, i think he works with what you have coming in and just adds muscle to it

Lol. Do you realize that Justin jenifer was one of the most turnover prone guards in his class before coming to Uc. Do you realize his shot was also listed as a “knuckleball”


Do you realize that Tre Scott was never ever ever expected to have a face up mid range game. Brian Snow even said before the season That he thought he was never going to be a guy who could score, and then he drops 20 something on UCF, a feat Houston bigs had no luck with.


Add in that Sean kilpatrick developed into an absolute monster after being a 3 star recruit after a ref shirt year in cincinnati.

Jacob Evans was not ever expected to be an NBA player and yet after 3 years at cincinnati he was.

Is Mick great at offensive system? No that’s not his strength. But at the same time; to say guys don’t develop under Cronin is literally just stupid.


How have we made the tourney 9 years in a row and yet have not had a single 1 and done. And only 1 guy was actually drafted in that time span.


Come on man. You guys beat us. But don’t be stupid with these dumb takes.


Lol for mick being a guy who can’t develop talent, it’s sure weird how good we’ve been.




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(03-12-2019 05:41 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  That’s a hot take if I ever heard one.

Houston brings an NBA player off its bench. Galen Robinson is a ball stopper on defense. Uc has no one who shoots nearly as well as Armoni Brooks.


Uc has Jarron. And the. Gets various support from different guys each night.

Corey Davis has Jarreau, Brooks, and then a penetrating guard like Robinson.

Offensively Houston has much more talent and fire power.

I think Keith Williams could become an all league guy next season but this season, he’s struggled with consistently being good. And that’s expected from a guy playing spot minutes to being a starter.

Our two PG’s wouldn’t start on even USF’s roster.

Now, had UC returned Jacob Evans like he built this team around then I’d say it’s a little closer but imo Houston is far and away more offensively talent and most importantly, experienced.


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you are missing my point that sampson is better at developing players on offense....
as far as "raw talent" its the same or close imo

ie. trevor moore= undeveloped armoni
cane broome ..not even kinda touching his offensive potential
Rashawn Fredericks was averaging a double double in juco as a juco all american (like corey)...

you have better offensive bigs......we have a 6'5 power forwards

IMO put an offense on Kieth Williams, a legitimate one and he is all-league, player of the year type with his physical dominance and length ..i see him as an undeveloped Jarrett Culver (texas tech/ big 12 POY)..i believe both can do the same things, identical measurements, same recruiting class...Williams was higher touted

it is Williams 1st year starting but he is 2 years in the cronin system....hinton who came in as a bad shooter has developed more of an offensive in his 5 months

my point: trevor moor came into UC as good shooter, and is currently a subpar one
dejon came in a horrible shooter, who hadnt played a basketball in a 1.5 years., started 10% from 3, is now shooting 60% from 3

cronin= only cares about defense

(03-12-2019 05:50 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  Lol for mick being a guy who can’t develop talent, it’s sure weird how good we’ve been.

i didnt say he doesnt develop at all.. i said he cant develop you on offense...

he has developed an elite level defense...that an undeniable truth

also being less turnover prove doesnt mean you are developed on offense, it could even mean the opposite...sampson says he has no interest in taking away dejons turnovers as that he would kill offensive potency

in his words dejon is a qb that throws 6tds a game but then also has 2 ints every game.. you dont take away the 6tds, to limit the 2 ints

also i just googled scott he was an elite scorer in high school (breaking school records)..and the first highlight i see of him he is shooting the ball for all over the court..while facing opponents
https://www.hudl.com/video/3/1874171/572...1f809e7245

Kirkpatrick was an elite scorer in highschool doing 30pts a game, shattering numerous records, cumberland was an elite scorer in high school..jacob evans wasnt drafted for elite offense
none of the guys you mentioned were offensive projects..

in comparison rob scored more in houston that his jc/high school..were he was only a spot shooter

my hot take wasnt that he doesnt develop at all... i said he develops but focuses on defense, aswell as making drastic body improvements ... but doesnt on offense..i said he works with what you can in with

I would vote for Corey but a lot of that is based off him giving Cincy the business Sunday. Definitely understand the argument for Martin and Cumberland is a stud as well. You really can't go wrong with either three. At the end of the day its a MEANINGLESS award. Its obviously fun to debate the contributions of each player but the award itself is doesnt matter. All three guys were unanimous 1st team selections. I imagine it'll be a pretty split vote.

(03-12-2019 08:16 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  I would vote for Corey but a lot of that is based off him giving Cincy the business Sunday. Definitely understand the argument for Martin and Cumberland is a stud as well. You really can't go wrong with either three. At the end of the day its a MEANINGLESS award. Its obviously fun to debate the contributions of each player but the award itself is doesnt matter. All three guys were unanimous 1st team selections. I imagine it'll be a pretty split vote.

that label will be carried with them for life and something that will be used as a deciding factor in things like jersey retirements...

it isnt meaningless

(03-12-2019 08:28 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:16 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  I would vote for Corey but a lot of that is based off him giving Cincy the business Sunday. Definitely understand the argument for Martin and Cumberland is a stud as well. You really can't go wrong with either three. At the end of the day its a MEANINGLESS award. Its obviously fun to debate the contributions of each player but the award itself is doesnt matter. All three guys were unanimous 1st team selections. I imagine it'll be a pretty split vote.

that label will be carried with them for life and something that will be used as a deciding factor in things like jersey retirements...

it isnt meaningless

Corey's greatness and legacy at UH won't be diminished one iota if he doesn't win conference player of the year. People will remember he was the best player on a 29-2 team. They'll remember the 31 he dropped on the Bearcats in Cincy to win the conference. Hopefully they'll go on a run in the NCAAT so we can remember that as well. POY is a cool distinction but in the larger scheme of things it doesn't matter at all. Rob never won a POY but if he had it wouldn't change how I remember him.

(03-12-2019 08:28 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:16 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  I would vote for Corey but a lot of that is based off him giving Cincy the business Sunday. Definitely understand the argument for Martin and Cumberland is a stud as well. You really can't go wrong with either three. At the end of the day its a MEANINGLESS award. Its obviously fun to debate the contributions of each player but the award itself is doesnt matter. All three guys were unanimous 1st team selections. I imagine it'll be a pretty split vote.

that label will be carried with them for life and something that will be used as a deciding factor in things like jersey retirements...

it isnt meaningless

Conference POY being the criteria for jersey retirements???

(03-12-2019 08:45 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:28 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:16 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  I would vote for Corey but a lot of that is based off him giving Cincy the business Sunday. Definitely understand the argument for Martin and Cumberland is a stud as well. You really can't go wrong with either three. At the end of the day its a MEANINGLESS award. Its obviously fun to debate the contributions of each player but the award itself is doesnt matter. All three guys were unanimous 1st team selections. I imagine it'll be a pretty split vote.

that label will be carried with them for life and something that will be used as a deciding factor in things like jersey retirements...

it isnt meaningless

Corey's greatness and legacy at UH won't be diminished one iota if he doesn't win conference player of the year. People will remember he was the best player on a 29-2 team. They'll remember the 31 he dropped on the Bearcats in Cincy to win the conference. Hopefully they'll go on a run in the NCAAT so we can remember that as well. POY is a cool distinction but in the larger scheme of things it doesn't matter at all. Rob never won a POY but if he had it wouldn't change how I remember him.

not winning doesnt diminish...winning it dramatically boosts
there are players from the 70's still recognized by their conference awards

in our games today they still talk about hollis price being an all-american

marcus sasser's head coach/uncle jason sasser is still referenced for his swc player of the year award..
if we arent in the final 4, "poy" will take him further than a tourney run especially if for some reason his pro career doesnt go how he wants and he is trying to transition into a coaching gig or sports media gig....

also rob legacy is pushed by our media department as being the2 time conference leading scorer (which isnt even an award) but you dont think we would have propped him even more for POY?

(03-12-2019 08:55 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:28 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:16 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  I would vote for Corey but a lot of that is based off him giving Cincy the business Sunday. Definitely understand the argument for Martin and Cumberland is a stud as well. You really can't go wrong with either three. At the end of the day its a MEANINGLESS award. Its obviously fun to debate the contributions of each player but the award itself is doesnt matter. All three guys were unanimous 1st team selections. I imagine it'll be a pretty split vote.

that label will be carried with them for life and something that will be used as a deciding factor in things like jersey retirements...

it isnt meaningless

Conference POY being the criteria for jersey retirements???

not a criteria, but a resume addition..and yes it is..

(03-12-2019 06:38 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 05:50 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  Lol for mick being a guy who can’t develop talent, it’s sure weird how good we’ve been.

i didnt say he doesnt develop at all.. i said he cant develop you on offense...

he has developed an elite level defense...that an undeniable truth

also being less turnover prove doesnt mean you are developed on offense, it could even mean the opposite...sampson says he has no interest in taking away dejons turnovers as that he would kill offensive potency

in his words dejon is a qb that throws 6tds a game but then also has 2 ints every game.. you dont take away the 6tds, to limit the 2 ints

also i just googled scott he was an elite scorer in high school (breaking school records)..and the first highlight i see of him he is shooting the ball for all over the court..while facing opponents
https://www.hudl.com/video/3/1874171/572...1f809e7245

Kirkpatrick was an elite scorer in highschool doing 30pts a game, shattering numerous records, cumberland was an elite scorer in high school..jacob evans wasnt drafted for elite offense
none of the guys you mentioned were offensive projects..

in comparison rob scored more in houston that his jc/high school..were he was only a spot shooter

my hot take wasnt that he doesnt develop at all... i said he develops but focuses on defense, aswell as making drastic body improvements ... but doesnt on offense..i said he works with what you can in with

Dude.

You cannot go off of high school numbers. It has to be AAU.

Tre Scott was hugely under recruited, and didn’t play good competition in high school. When your 6’8 and the best player on your team, it’s easy to score 30.

But in AAU, against other elite talent, not so much.

Plus... Scott’s evaluation is coming from Brian Snow, who is literally the best Scout in the business. He said he never expected any offense from Scott.

I mean, for real. Your making it sound as if it SK, Tre Scott, Trevor Moore, Jacob Evans and others were all 5 star recruits.


Gary Clark was not a stretch 4 when he came to cincinnati. Yet, in his 3rd and 4th year, he became a great stretch 4 and now all he shoots is 3’s for the rockets.


Same for Tre Scott, he never took jumpers or shot at all his first 2 years, now he has a good mid range game. My guess is that next year he shoot 35% from 3.


But I also think you confuse offensive development with micks defense first mentality.



Mick won’t recruit if you can’t defend
Mick won’t play you if you can’t defend

Look at Keith Williams. His defense sucked last year. So he didn’t play. He fixed those issues and now he plays.

Mick doesn’t sacrifice on two things: Turnovers and defense.

And look at how Houston lost to UC in the aac finals last year. On a turnover.


Add in that: Sampson gives his players more offensive freedom, but I think mick is the better defensive coach and has a better long term system for defense.

The cornerstone of Houston’s defense relies on outstanding perimeter ball pressure from Davis and Robinson. But that same pressure cant just be done by anyone. It takes the perfect players for it.

Literally mick can grab a few guys off the street and in 6 months can coach them how to defend.





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(03-12-2019 09:02 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:55 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:28 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:16 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  I would vote for Corey but a lot of that is based off him giving Cincy the business Sunday. Definitely understand the argument for Martin and Cumberland is a stud as well. You really can't go wrong with either three. At the end of the day its a MEANINGLESS award. Its obviously fun to debate the contributions of each player but the award itself is doesnt matter. All three guys were unanimous 1st team selections. I imagine it'll be a pretty split vote.

that label will be carried with them for life and something that will be used as a deciding factor in things like jersey retirements...

it isnt meaningless

Conference POY being the criteria for jersey retirements???

not a criteria, but a resume addition..and yes it is..

Resume for what? Corey Davis isn’t getting drafted. He might be an elite Europe guy but he isn’t an nba guy.

He’s a 6’1 shooting guard who struggles to guard longer more athletic wings... which is everyone in the nba.


I’d think your history has to be pretty bad to retire Corey Davis Jersey. Maybe if they make the final four or something, but if they drop out before the first weekend, I don’t think he gets his number retired


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The victor goes the spoils.

Davis it is.