(03-12-2019 10:38 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 09:02 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:55 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:28 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-12-2019 08:16 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  I would vote for Corey but a lot of that is based off him giving Cincy the business Sunday. Definitely understand the argument for Martin and Cumberland is a stud as well. You really can't go wrong with either three. At the end of the day its a MEANINGLESS award. Its obviously fun to debate the contributions of each player but the award itself is doesnt matter. All three guys were unanimous 1st team selections. I imagine it'll be a pretty split vote.

that label will be carried with them for life and something that will be used as a deciding factor in things like jersey retirements...

it isnt meaningless

Conference POY being the criteria for jersey retirements???

not a criteria, but a resume addition..and yes it is..

Resume for what? Corey Davis isn’t getting drafted. He might be an elite Europe guy but he isn’t an nba guy.

He’s a 6’1 shooting guard who struggles to guard longer more athletic wings... which is everyone in the nba.


I’d think your history has to be pretty bad to retire Corey Davis Jersey. Maybe if they make the final four or something, but if they drop out before the first weekend, I don’t think he gets his number retired


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i was talking about resume of things you did that might get your jersey hung..and what happens after your pro career...also we are 29-2 and seen as a final 4 treat...we have no clue what his career will finish like

also corey wont get drafted but he is guaranteed to get a two way contract...and corey doesnt struggle to guard tall guard..we had this discussion he struggles versus super tall guards when they get him in the paint..he shut down shamet, aubrey dawkins, sam merrill, david collins, nate pierre louis...who are all tall guards..

and when we say the word "struggle" its very relative.he struggle to 'his' standard... his struglge defense would still be elite to alot of nba guards...

Young Shizz

(03-12-2019 10:34 PM)justinhub2003 Wrote:  Dude.

You cannot go off of high school numbers. It has to be AAU.

Tre Scott was hugely under recruited, and didn’t play good competition in high school. When your 6’8 and the best player on your team, it’s easy to score 30.

But in AAU, against other elite talent, not so much.

Plus... Scott’s evaluation is coming from Brian Snow, who is literally the best Scout in the business. He said he never expected any offense from Scott.

I mean, for real. Your making it sound as if it SK, Tre Scott, Trevor Moore, Jacob Evans and others were all 5 star recruits.


Gary Clark was not a stretch 4 when he came to cincinnati. Yet, in his 3rd and 4th year, he became a great stretch 4 and now all he shoots is 3’s for the rockets.


Same for Tre Scott, he never took jumpers or shot at all his first 2 years, now he has a good mid range game. My guess is that next year he shoot 35% from 3.


But I also think you confuse offensive development with micks defense first mentality.



Mick won’t recruit if you can’t defend
Mick won’t play you if you can’t defend

Look at Keith Williams. His defense sucked last year. So he didn’t play. He fixed those issues and now he plays.

Mick doesn’t sacrifice on two things: Turnovers and defense.

And look at how Houston lost to UC in the aac finals last year. On a turnover.


Add in that: Sampson gives his players more offensive freedom, but I think mick is the better defensive coach and has a better long term system for defense.

The cornerstone of Houston’s defense relies on outstanding perimeter ball pressure from Davis and Robinson. But that same pressure cant just be done by anyone. It takes the perfect players for it.

Literally mick can grab a few guys off the street and in 6 months can coach them how to defend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1) brian snow is not the best scout in the industry...not kidding i got in twitter debate with him last week (about the aac vs big east)..he thinks
--the aac will be worse next year
--thinks memphis will be far worse
-- think wichita will be far worse
-- he thinks mcduffie is an elite player
--thinks only houston and cincy will be good...

(id like to point out after me and a few other twitter folks got on him, he backtracked) and just spoke of why the big east would be great

2) i cant find anything about scott aau team or even who he played for..but did find out he had a late growth spurt, that most of his high school career he was a Small forward...and loved to shoot the ball..so the idea that he was just a back to the basket big isnt accurate

4) talent and skill set are different things...you can be an elite scorer as a 3star .....aka samari curtis is a ELITE scorer..he is a composite 3star

5) i dont think mick is better defense coach...he coaches a system, sampson develops defensive players
we were just having a convo on the houston forum

mick recruits defensive players to fit his scheme ..sampson recruits potential and develops them into great offensive/defensive players...not one of our "great defensive players" we have was great at defense before houston...he called armoni one of the worst defenders he had ever seen but that he was super long and that galen bad at defense but was super fast..before he developed them (in a convo about what to expect from dejon & hinton in the future.) ..
mick is putting super athletic or tall players, who's highlight tape are mostly blocks, in a scheme...sampson is taking nothing and makings defensive players..sampson had been making elite defenses for 20 years before mick took his 1st job (sampson on really got into offense during his 5 year showcase and got to learn in the NBA)

6) my last point: we have both watched a lot of UC basketball the last few years: i have never seen 1 player develop into an top scorer who wasnt one before they came to UC

Ive seen players have their role expanded, or given more of a leash, maybe a slight improvement of what they already were ..ive never seen one transform into something they never were (on offense) i can say that about many of the players under other coaches

^Not sure I agree with your assessment 100% coach P....

(03-13-2019 08:57 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  ^Not sure I agree with your assessment 100% coach P....

Coach P was undefeated for most of the season, but didn't finish strong (multiple losses). It will be interesting to see how he performs in post-season play.

(03-13-2019 09:01 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 08:57 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  ^Not sure I agree with your assessment 100% coach P....

Coach P was undefeated for most of the season, but didn't finish strong (multiple losses). It will be interesting to see how he performs in post-season play.

I think he's gassed. Really faded down the stretch.

I on the other hand continue to climb both polls and my net has surged, bigly.

(03-13-2019 08:57 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  ^Not sure I agree with your assessment 100% coach P....

Yeah, I don't particularly want to get in a long discussion about it, but those were some takes for sure.

I think we all know Mick Cronin's deficiencies and his hard headed approach to defense. I think pesik is selling him quite a bit short though with some of the implications. We've had a few offense first recruits coming in the past few years. And while those guys are naturally gifted offensively, it takes a lot of coaching and development to make them cohesive parts of a team that can win, and not just a one man show free baller. Evans in particular wasn't really known for scoring on the AAU circuit or he would have been much higher ranked than he was.

The thing I question most about Cronin is his inability to get more consistent 4 stars in. There is no reason our program shouldn't be pulling in the back end Top 100 guys with regularity. That, more than anything, is what has our program somewhat stagnant IMO.

(03-13-2019 09:45 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 08:57 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  ^Not sure I agree with your assessment 100% coach P....

Yeah, I don't particularly want to get in a long discussion about it, but those were some takes for sure.

I think we all know Mick Cronin's deficiencies and his hard headed approach to defense. I think pesik is selling him quite a bit short though with some of the implications. We've had a few offense first recruits coming in the past few years. And while those guys are naturally gifted offensively, it takes a lot of coaching and development to make them cohesive parts of a team that can win, and not just a one man show free baller. Evans in particular wasn't really known for scoring on the AAU circuit or he would have been much higher ranked than he was.

The thing I question most about Cronin is his inability to get more consistent 4 stars in. There is no reason our program shouldn't be pulling in the back end Top 100 guys with regularity. That, more than anything, is what has our program somewhat stagnant IMO.

im not denying anything you said..i agree actually....

i said in my hot take: he works with what he has...that he takes what you have, dramatically improves your body and then fits you in into his machine in whatever best way he can

i think your last paragraph and my point overlap in different ways..you are saying he can land that he cant land guys....
my point is that he cant develop the guys he get into top guys offensively if they weren't already one
--we are both saying lack of offensive talent ...we just have different approaches on he he should get it

google videos of jarrett culver or zhaire smith...they were 3star players who will be or were lottery picks as underclassman..and tell me you dont think Kieth Williams could do the things those guys are doing (identically measurements)...
and ask your self if texas tech is just magically finding all the elite 3star wings, or they have a coach that develops them

(03-13-2019 11:34 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 09:45 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 08:57 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  ^Not sure I agree with your assessment 100% coach P....

Yeah, I don't particularly want to get in a long discussion about it, but those were some takes for sure.

I think we all know Mick Cronin's deficiencies and his hard headed approach to defense. I think pesik is selling him quite a bit short though with some of the implications. We've had a few offense first recruits coming in the past few years. And while those guys are naturally gifted offensively, it takes a lot of coaching and development to make them cohesive parts of a team that can win, and not just a one man show free baller. Evans in particular wasn't really known for scoring on the AAU circuit or he would have been much higher ranked than he was.

The thing I question most about Cronin is his inability to get more consistent 4 stars in. There is no reason our program shouldn't be pulling in the back end Top 100 guys with regularity. That, more than anything, is what has our program somewhat stagnant IMO.

im not denying anything you said..i agree actually....

i said in my hot take: he works with what he has...that he takes what you have, dramatically improves your body and then fits you in into his machine in whatever best way he can

i think your last paragraph and my point overlap in different ways..you are saying he can land that he cant land guys....
my point is that he cant develop the guys he get into top guys offensively if they weren't already one
--we are both saying lack of offensive talent ...we just have different approaches on he he should get it

google videos of jarrett culver or zhaire smith...they were 3star players who will be or were lottery picks as underclassman..and tell me you dont think Kieth Williams could do the things those guys are doing (identically measurements)...
and ask your self if texas tech is just magically finding all the elite 3star wings, or they have a coach that develops them

Sure, I mean I think I get what you are saying. But how many coaches can turn offensively limited guys into elite offensive threats?

Keith has made an incredible jump from last year to this year. If you go back and watch him last year, we had people in our fanbase saying this guy doesn't have a clue and is all athleticism and no skill. I think Keith is a good example of the kind of jump some guys have made. I suspect he is going to really surprise people again next year by getting even better (i.e. more consistent).

I thought Other had a real chance at the POY. He ended the season stronger than anyone else. Frankly, I'm pissed.

(03-13-2019 12:59 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 11:34 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 09:45 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(03-13-2019 08:57 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  ^Not sure I agree with your assessment 100% coach P....

Yeah, I don't particularly want to get in a long discussion about it, but those were some takes for sure.

I think we all know Mick Cronin's deficiencies and his hard headed approach to defense. I think pesik is selling him quite a bit short though with some of the implications. We've had a few offense first recruits coming in the past few years. And while those guys are naturally gifted offensively, it takes a lot of coaching and development to make them cohesive parts of a team that can win, and not just a one man show free baller. Evans in particular wasn't really known for scoring on the AAU circuit or he would have been much higher ranked than he was.

The thing I question most about Cronin is his inability to get more consistent 4 stars in. There is no reason our program shouldn't be pulling in the back end Top 100 guys with regularity. That, more than anything, is what has our program somewhat stagnant IMO.

im not denying anything you said..i agree actually....

i said in my hot take: he works with what he has...that he takes what you have, dramatically improves your body and then fits you in into his machine in whatever best way he can

i think your last paragraph and my point overlap in different ways..you are saying he can land that he cant land guys....
my point is that he cant develop the guys he get into top guys offensively if they weren't already one
--we are both saying lack of offensive talent ...we just have different approaches on he he should get it

google videos of jarrett culver or zhaire smith...they were 3star players who will be or were lottery picks as underclassman..and tell me you dont think Kieth Williams could do the things those guys are doing (identically measurements)...
and ask your self if texas tech is just magically finding all the elite 3star wings, or they have a coach that develops them

Sure, I mean I think I get what you are saying. But how many coaches can turn offensively limited guys into elite offensive threats?

Keith has made an incredible jump from last year to this year. If you go back and watch him last year, we had people in our fanbase saying this guy doesn't have a clue and is all athleticism and no skill. I think Keith is a good example of the kind of jump some guys have made. I suspect he is going to really surprise people again next year by getting even better (i.e. more consistent).

depends on how you define limited

imo Rashawn Fredericks (juco all american), cane broome, kieth williams, trevor moore, tre scott are no where where they should be offensively..and only one of them is a new player

i legitimately believe if you switched our rosters but had the same coaches, we'd be having this same debate.:
--dejon couldnt shoot or make contested layups a few months ago..he just had handles and athleticism
--hinton was a horrible shooter a few month ago
--literally 5 months ago UC fans were saying corey was just a spot shooter
--literally 5 months ago UC fans were saying galen robinson had no offensive capabilities
--when armoni came his handles were horrible

-- we have a transfer PF sitting out that took 13s total in his last 60 games at 20%..according to coach interviews they've developed him into one of the best 3 point shooters on the team

under cronin, i don't think any of those transformation happens
and i believe UC players would have had similar improvements in the reverse