Quote:Where are those who said TU could never win?

Oh yeah. Helping coach losers at Alabama. 

This was on TUfan's signature block. I remember that it comes from the pickers section of the paper, but I don't understand it. Are they talking about Rader? I can't believe that he ever said that TU could never win. Or else they are talking about someone else. Anyone know?

richardm Wrote:

Quote:Where are those who said TU could never win?

Oh yeah. Helping coach losers at Alabama. 

This was on TUfan's signature block. I remember that it comes from the pickers section of the paper, but I don't understand it. Are they talking about Rader? I can't believe that he ever said that TU could never win. Or else they are talking about someone else. Anyone know?

He (Rader) stated that no one would/could win at TU because of the academics and lack of support (not to mention a whole pile of other excuses). Apparently he was mistaken.

Under the conditions he had to work with he was probably correct in his statment. Since his departure there has been a renewed commitiment to football by the university along with some academic program changes that should benefit football.

3forTU Wrote:Under the conditions he had to work with he was probably correct in his statment. Since his departure there has been a renewed commitiment to football by the university along with some academic program changes that should benefit football.

LOL! You do realize that those Academic changes didn't really change anything? Any person could have done the same thing under the "old" programs-- they just slapped a new name on it, combined some exising classes/programs and gave it a new name.

10 years of losing makes it hard to have much of a financial commitment. The money has to come from somewhere and donations can only carry you so far...especially while losing (which generates less money).

Personally, I'm glad he's gone. Some of my friends played for him, and the things that went on weren't kosher in my book (not rules violations-- just how he ran the program).

Any changes in the ciriculum that helps bring in athletes is better than the help that Rader got.

3forTU Wrote:Any changes in the ciriculum that helps bring in athletes is better than the help that Rader got.

Ah, but they weren't really changes. The programs existed while he was there. A new name, isn't a program change. Same classes. Same requirements. New name. That doesn't bring athletes in. That's just a new name to an old program. :rolleyes: Basically a marketing ploy used by the administration. However the ploy isn't new-- coaches were selling it for what it is prior to the name change.

TUfan Wrote:

3forTU Wrote:Any changes in the ciriculum that helps bring in athletes is better than the help that Rader got.

Ah, but they weren't really changes. The programs existed while he was there. A new name, isn't a program change. Same classes. Same requirements. New name. That doesn't bring athletes in. That's just a new name to an old program. :rolleyes:

There is a new Teacher Certification in the Exercise and Sports Sciences Program that is coordinated with the education department. Take a look at the requirements, not the same as it is for Exercise and Sports Sciences.

<a href='http://www.cba.utulsa.edu/depts/exercise/certification/Requirements/' target='_blank'>http://www.cba.utulsa.edu/depts/exercise/c...n/Requirements/</a>

I think that is more than a name change.

3forTU Wrote:

TUfan Wrote:

3forTU Wrote:Any changes in the ciriculum that helps bring in athletes is better than the help that Rader got.

Ah, but they weren't really changes. The programs existed while he was there. A new name, isn't a program change. Same classes. Same requirements. New name. That doesn't bring athletes in. That's just a new name to an old program. :rolleyes:

There is a new Teacher Certification in the Exercise and Sports Sciences Program that is coordinated with the education department. Take a look at the requirements, not the same as it is for Exercise and Sports Sciences.

<a href='http://www.cba.utulsa.edu/depts/exercise/certification/Requirements/' target='_blank'>http://www.cba.utulsa.edu/depts/exercise/c...n/Requirements/</a>

I think that is more than a name change.

Prior to the "change" you could earn an education degree with a coaching certification. I wasn't referring to exercise science.

They eliminated HYPER in what 91 or so. Until the new specialization there has not been a program that combined education and exercise/health curriculum.

3forTU Wrote:They eliminated HYPER in what 91 or so. Until the new specialization there has not been a program that combined education and exercise/health curriculum.

Education + coaching was there when I started in 98.

Coaching???? No such degree area at TU since they droped HYPER long ago. You can not major in Coaching, you can major in elementary education, or double major in Secondary Education and something else like history, math, science, english and the list goes on, but not coaching. Now we have a specific degree track that upholds academic integrity of the university while giving student athletes a program that can help prepare them for a career in physical education.

The Exercise and Sports Science program was instituted during Raders tenure, but has only recently has been adjusted to offer an education specalization.

3forTU Wrote:Coaching????&nbsp; No such degree area at TU since they droped HYPER long ago.&nbsp; You can not major in Coaching, you can major in elementary education, or double major in Secondary Education and something else like history, math, science, english and the list goes on, but not coaching.&nbsp; Now we have a specific degree track that upholds academic integrity of the university while giving student athletes a program that can help prepare them for a career in physical education.&nbsp;

The Exercise and Sports Science program was instituted during Raders tenure, but has only recently has been adjusted to offer an education specalization.

Coaching is the certification/certificate that can replace the Education Major's minor. It's been there for more quite some time now (prior to 98 that's for sure). I wouldn't know about it either, but I looked in to getting it. However, seeing as I was not an education major (or exercise science for that matter), it would have pushed back my graduation to my regularily scheduled date, and I wanted to graduate early.

Round and round we go. Where we stop nobody knows.

If you are on the Secondary Education is a double major so. With the new program you can come in a major in exercise and sports sciences and get a the education major.

"Upon completion of the degree requirements, graduates receive a Bachelor of Science in Exercise and Sports Science as their first major and Education as their second major. They also receive an endorsement from the School of Education recommending Initial Licensure for Physical Education/Health/Safety through the Oklahoma State Department of Education."

I agree with TUFAN on this one. I've had season tickets since the late 80s & was a Rader supporter till the end. However, I saw him building more & more excuses in the last few years that covered his recruiting deficiencies more than addressed a real problem. He left in a very bitter way & I believe he was wrong in doing this. He failed to recruit African-American athletes in any real way. The Lockett brothers & Rod Humphery were good student athletes that later said they wanted to go to TU, but were not recruited. Rod's father, Al, a former TU All American was quoted the next day in the Tulsa World as being upset that his school did not recruit his son & Rod ended up signing with Pitt of the Big East. I still think Dave is a great person & hope he has great success in all his future coaching positions. I do agree he was wrong with his "Bear Bryant couldn't win here speech". Anyway, even if it were the schools fault, he could have left in a classier way.

I just thought it hard to believe that Dave would say something like that, but apparently he did. I still think the world of Coach Rader. This Coach Kragethorpe really is too good to be true. There has to be a fly in the ointment somewhere. I think we should fire him before we get burnt.

Rader was both blessed and cursed by timing. Honestly, he should have been fired around 1995. Four straight losing seasons should've been enough. But a new president was coming on board soon, so there were bigger issues to deal with. And since we were joining the WAC, the thought was that ol' Dave should have the chance to recruit with the benefit of conference affiliation instead of independent status. So he stayed.

Then of course, it was going to take a few years to adjust to the level of competition. That bought him a few more seasons. So he should've been canned in after the '97 or '98 season. Then the whole academic issue came up and a whole litany of excuses. Blah, blah, blah... buys him another year or two.

It was mismanagement, plain and simple. We won't repeat that mistake again.