FloSports article:
https://www.flofootball.com/articles/648...ubdivision

Hard to argue with those facts.

I believed that in the 2000's. That is not the case now in my opinion.

(05-17-2019 05:31 AM)Dukester Wrote:  I believed that in the 2000's. That is not the case now in my opinion.

If the national champion is the only metric used, then sure, you’re right.

(05-17-2019 05:59 AM)Potomac Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:31 AM)Dukester Wrote:  I believed that in the 2000's. That is not the case now in my opinion.

If the national champion is the only metric used, then sure, you’re right.

Fair Enough.

One of the Metrics I use is the Sagarin Ratings.
- The last 8 years the MVC has been the top rated conference every year
- While the MVC has obviously averaged 1, the last 8 years the CAA's average FCS ranking has been 3.25
- The MVC frequentely, if not usually, ranks about CUSA & the Sunbelt. Not the case with the CAA.

Potomac, what is your metric you us to believe the CAA is the best FCS conference?

(05-17-2019 07:15 AM)Dukester Wrote:  Potomac, what is your metric you us to believe the CAA is the best FCS conference?

the Dukes are in it, obv

(05-17-2019 07:57 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 07:15 AM)Dukester Wrote:  Potomac, what is your metric you us to believe the CAA is the best FCS conference?

the Dukes are in it, obv

Yep - well I agree with that.

(05-17-2019 05:31 AM)Dukester Wrote:  I believed that in the 2000's. That is not the case now in my opinion.

2000s? Of course there is history cited in the article. The success of the CAA isn’t a recent phenomenon, but the number of teams making the playoff and their deep runs are also part of the article, as are the citations showing comparative numbers of playoff teams and their success from other leagues.

Admit it, for some reason you just don’t like the article’s conclusions, but the facts are incontrovertible.

Why would a University like James Madison be in the CAA?

(05-17-2019 08:51 AM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  Why would a University like James Madison be in the CAA?

Because they feel they don't have a better option?

Low hanging fruit.

(05-17-2019 07:15 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:59 AM)Potomac Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:31 AM)Dukester Wrote:  I believed that in the 2000's. That is not the case now in my opinion.

If the national champion is the only metric used, then sure, you’re right.

Fair Enough.

One of the Metrics I use is the Sagarin Ratings.
- The last 8 years the MVC has been the top rated conference every year
- While the MVC has obviously averaged 1, the last 8 years the CAA's average FCS ranking has been 3.25
- The MVC frequentely, if not usually, ranks about CUSA & the Sunbelt. Not the case with the CAA.

Potomac, what is your metric you us to believe the CAA is the best FCS conference?

NDSU has been dominant but no other MVC team has won a NC since YSU in 1997. Since that time, five CAA schools have been national champions with JMU winning two. If you want to say the MVC is better, that is your opinion but remove JMU and NDSU from the discussion and the CAA is clearly the winner.

(05-17-2019 11:26 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 07:15 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:59 AM)Potomac Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:31 AM)Dukester Wrote:  I believed that in the 2000's. That is not the case now in my opinion.

If the national champion is the only metric used, then sure, you’re right.

Fair Enough.

One of the Metrics I use is the Sagarin Ratings.
- The last 8 years the MVC has been the top rated conference every year
- While the MVC has obviously averaged 1, the last 8 years the CAA's average FCS ranking has been 3.25
- The MVC frequentely, if not usually, ranks about CUSA & the Sunbelt. Not the case with the CAA.

Potomac, what is your metric you us to believe the CAA is the best FCS conference?

NDSU has been dominant but no other MVC team has won a NC since YSU in 1997. Since that time, five CAA schools have been national champions with JMU winning two. If you want to say the MVC is better, that is your opinion but remove JMU and NDSU from the discussion and the CAA is clearly the winner.

Dukester is in love with Sagarin (which is the #26 performing rating system, and correct an astounding 73% of the time). Actual playoff wins and losses apparently matter less to him than what the "computer" says. Thankfully the rest of the world measures success based on real outcomes.

(05-18-2019 08:02 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 11:26 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 07:15 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:59 AM)Potomac Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:31 AM)Dukester Wrote:  I believed that in the 2000's. That is not the case now in my opinion.

If the national champion is the only metric used, then sure, you’re right.

Fair Enough.

One of the Metrics I use is the Sagarin Ratings.
- The last 8 years the MVC has been the top rated conference every year
- While the MVC has obviously averaged 1, the last 8 years the CAA's average FCS ranking has been 3.25
- The MVC frequentely, if not usually, ranks about CUSA & the Sunbelt. Not the case with the CAA.

Potomac, what is your metric you us to believe the CAA is the best FCS conference?

NDSU has been dominant but no other MVC team has won a NC since YSU in 1997. Since that time, five CAA schools have been national champions with JMU winning two. If you want to say the MVC is better, that is your opinion but remove JMU and NDSU from the discussion and the CAA is clearly the winner.

Dukester is in love with Sagarin (which is the #26 performing rating system, and correct an astounding 73% of the time). Actual playoff wins and losses apparently matter less to him than what the "computer" says. Thankfully the rest of the world measures success based on real outcomes.

Yes Rocks - I do look for unbiased objective ratings to back my opinion/reasoning. Logic makes sense to me as an accountant and helps form my opinions. Look at the 11 posts on this thread. There is one post on this that actually shows backup to support their belief. I don't see a single post that shows complete objective reasoning.

As wacky as you may say the the Sagarins are, show me another rating system that more closely compares to las vegas lines, that also shows CAA Football as better than the MVC the last 8 years.


Nation at least tried, although he had to go all the way back to the 1990's to indicate the CAA is currently better. I have already said in this thread I believed in the 2000's I think the CAA was the best, but the last 8 years, which I think are relevant years for "is", the MVC has easily been the best FCS conference. The MVC regularly finished above FSC leagues (probably about 20 times in the last 8 years) and the CAA has not I believe even once.

Rocks - show/provide the backup for your belief. To me the continued the "that's stupid? /"I now you are but what am I posts" shows/provides nothing to the discussion but on a message board all thoughts are appreciated.

(05-18-2019 08:33 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 08:02 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 11:26 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 07:15 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:59 AM)Potomac Wrote:  If the national champion is the only metric used, then sure, you’re right.

Fair Enough.

One of the Metrics I use is the Sagarin Ratings.
- The last 8 years the MVC has been the top rated conference every year
- While the MVC has obviously averaged 1, the last 8 years the CAA's average FCS ranking has been 3.25
- The MVC frequentely, if not usually, ranks about CUSA & the Sunbelt. Not the case with the CAA.

Potomac, what is your metric you us to believe the CAA is the best FCS conference?

NDSU has been dominant but no other MVC team has won a NC since YSU in 1997. Since that time, five CAA schools have been national champions with JMU winning two. If you want to say the MVC is better, that is your opinion but remove JMU and NDSU from the discussion and the CAA is clearly the winner.

Dukester is in love with Sagarin (which is the #26 performing rating system, and correct an astounding 73% of the time). Actual playoff wins and losses apparently matter less to him than what the "computer" says. Thankfully the rest of the world measures success based on real outcomes.

Yes Rocks - I do look for unbiased objective ratings to back my opinion/reasoning. Logic makes sense to me as an accountant and helps form my opinions. Look at the 11 posts on this thread. There is one post on this that actually shows backup to support their belief. I don't see a single post that shows complete objective reasoning.

As wacky as you may say the the Sagarins are, show me another rating system that more closely compares to las vegas lines, that also shows CAA Football as better than the MVC the last 8 years.


Nation at least tried, although he had to go all the way back to the 1990's to indicate the CAA is currently better. I have already said in this thread I believed in the 2000's I think the CAA was the best, but the last 8 years, which I think are relevant years for "is", the MVC has easily been the best FCS conference. The MVC regularly finished above FSC leagues (probably about 20 times in the last 8 years) and the CAA has not I believe even once.

Rocks - show/provide the backup for your belief. To me the continued the "that's stupid? /"I now you are but what am I posts" shows/provides nothing to the discussion but on a message board all thoughts are appreciated.

The MVC finished above based on some rating system, as opposed to other tangible results? Well, I suppose you are at least admitting it. Take NDSU success out of the MVC’s RPI rating equation and what do you have? A different (and much lower) ranking for that conference to be sure.

I’ll stick with overall real world events.

(05-17-2019 11:26 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  NDSU has been dominant but no other MVC team has won a NC since YSU in 1997. Since that time, five CAA schools have been national champions with JMU winning two. If you want to say the MVC is better, that is your opinion but remove JMU and NDSU from the discussion and the CAA is clearly the winner.

Then Illinois St. wins in 2014 and YSU (or SDSU) wins in 2016. Towson wins in 2013, but maybe SDSU wins in 2017. Ends up fairly even from a championship perspective (with a lot of assumptions about how things might play out).

Best way, IMO, is to look at the non-conference FCS playoff results over whatever time period makes sense. Can look at overall results or CAA vs. MVC only. Both have had enough playoff participants to provide a decent sample set. I'd hypothesize that MVC will come out ahead in that comparison, but compiling that information is more effort than I care to do at the moment.

(05-18-2019 08:57 AM)DooX Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 11:26 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  NDSU has been dominant but no other MVC team has won a NC since YSU in 1997. Since that time, five CAA schools have been national champions with JMU winning two. If you want to say the MVC is better, that is your opinion but remove JMU and NDSU from the discussion and the CAA is clearly the winner.

Then Illinois St. wins in 2014 and YSU (or SDSU) wins in 2016. Towson wins in 2013, but maybe SDSU wins in 2017. Ends up fairly even from a championship perspective (with a lot of assumptions about how things might play out).

Best way, IMO, is to look at the non-conference FCS playoff results over whatever time period makes sense. Can look at overall results or CAA vs. MVC only. Both have had enough playoff participants to provide a decent sample set. I'd hypothesize that MVC will come out ahead in that comparison, but compiling that information is more effort than I care to do at the moment.

Yep. The CAA was clearly superior up until 2010. But We’re talking this decade (the last 8 seasons since 2011). If you remove NDSU and JMU from the equation, and look at the other 9 MVFC and 11 CAA teams in regards to OOC playoff records (excluding vs NDSU and JMU) (there’s a lot more MVFC vs MVFC in the playoffs than CAA vs CAA)

2011 (20 teams)
CAA 2-4
MVFC 1-1
1st Rd: ODUH beat NSU.
Rd of 16: ODUH lost GSU; UNH lost MT St; TU lost to Lehigh; Maine beat App St; UNI beat Wofford.
Qtrfinals: Maine lost GSU; UNI lost to Montana.

2012 (20 teams)
CAA 1-3
MVFC: 2-1
1st Rd: VU lost to Big South SBU; SDSU beat EIU.
Rd of 16: UNH lost to Wofford; ODU beat CCU; ILSU beat App St (SDSU lost NDSU).
Qtrfinals: ODU lost to GSU; ILSU lost to EWU.

2013 (24 teams)
CAA: 5-0
MVFC: 1-1
1st Rd: UNH beat Lafayette; SDSU beat NAU.
Rd of 16: TU beat Fordham; SDSU lost EWU (UNH beat Maine)
Qtr finals: UNH beat SELA; TU beat EIU.
Semis: TU beat EWU (UNH crushed by NDSU).
(NC game TU crushed by NDSU).

2014
CAA: 4-3
MVFC: 5-1
1st Rd: RU beat Morgan St; Ind St beat EKU; UNI beat SFA; SDSU beat MT St;
Rd of 16: UNH beat Fordham; VU beat Liberty; CCU beat RU; Ind St lost UTC (ILSU beat UNI & NDSU beat SDSU 27-24).
Qtr finals: UNH beat UTC; VU lost SHSU; ILSU beat EWU.
Semis: *ILSU beat UNH.
(NC game NDSU beat ILSU 29-27).

2015
CAA: 2-1
MVFC: 4-1
1st Rd: Colgate beat UNH; W&M beat Duquesne; WIU beat Dayton; SDSU beat MT; UNI beat EIU.
Rd of 16: UNI beat PSU (ILSU beat WIU; RU beat W&M).
Qtr finals: *RU beat ILSU (NDSU beat UNI).

2016
CAA: 4-2
MVFC: 4-1
1st Rd: VU beat STFU; UNH beat Lehigh; RU beat NC A&T; YSU beat Samford; ILSU lost UCA.
Rd of 16: *VU lost SDSU; RU beat ND; YSU beat Jacksonville (JMU beat UNH).
Qtr finals: RU lost EWU; YSU beat Wofford (NDSU beat SDSU)
Semis: YSU beat EWU.

2017
CAA: 3-2
MVFC: 3-2
1st Rd: SBU beat Lehigh; UNH beat CCSU; Elon lost Furman; UNI beat Monmouth; SD beat Nichols; ILSU lost Weber.
Rd of 16: UNH beat UCA; SD lost SHSU (JMU beat SBU; SDSU beat UNI).
Qtrfinals: *UNH crushed by SDSU.

2018
CAA: 2-5
MVFC: 3-1
1st Rd: Elon lost Wofford; TU lost Duquesne; SBU lost SEMO; UNI beat Lamar (JMU beat UD).
Rd of 16: Maine beat JSU; JMU lost Colgate; SDSU beat Duquesne; UNI lost UC Davis.
Qtr finals: Maine beat Weber; SDSU beat KSU.
Semis: Maine lost EWU (NDSU beat SDSU).

2011-2018 OOC playoff record of the CAA & MVFC, excluding NDSU & JMU & games played vs NDSU & JMU:
CAA: 23-20
MVFC: 22-8

Head to head: MVFC 3, CAA 1

I bet if you use regular season OOC 2011-2018 the MVFC is ahead of the CAA, including or excluding NDSU & JMU.

(05-17-2019 11:26 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 07:15 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:59 AM)Potomac Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:31 AM)Dukester Wrote:  I believed that in the 2000's. That is not the case now in my opinion.

If the national champion is the only metric used, then sure, you’re right.

Fair Enough.

One of the Metrics I use is the Sagarin Ratings.
- The last 8 years the MVC has been the top rated conference every year
- While the MVC has obviously averaged 1, the last 8 years the CAA's average FCS ranking has been 3.25
- The MVC frequentely, if not usually, ranks about CUSA & the Sunbelt. Not the case with the CAA.

Potomac, what is your metric you us to believe the CAA is the best FCS conference?

NDSU has been dominant but no other MVC team has won a NC since YSU in 1997. Since that time, five CAA schools have been national champions with JMU winning two. If you want to say the MVC is better, that is your opinion but remove JMU and NDSU from the discussion and the CAA is clearly the winner.

Sure if you want to go back to the 90s through the last decade (2010), but we’re talking now (this decade).
2011-2018 the MVFC is clearly the winner, whether you remove NDSU & JMU or not. Not based on opinions but facts. There’s not a single metric, Sagarin, Massey, playoffs, regular season OOC, etc, that says otherwise.

(05-18-2019 08:44 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 08:33 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 08:02 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 11:26 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 07:15 AM)Dukester Wrote:  Fair Enough.

One of the Metrics I use is the Sagarin Ratings.
- The last 8 years the MVC has been the top rated conference every year
- While the MVC has obviously averaged 1, the last 8 years the CAA's average FCS ranking has been 3.25
- The MVC frequentely, if not usually, ranks about CUSA & the Sunbelt. Not the case with the CAA.

Potomac, what is your metric you us to believe the CAA is the best FCS conference?

NDSU has been dominant but no other MVC team has won a NC since YSU in 1997. Since that time, five CAA schools have been national champions with JMU winning two. If you want to say the MVC is better, that is your opinion but remove JMU and NDSU from the discussion and the CAA is clearly the winner.

Dukester is in love with Sagarin (which is the #26 performing rating system, and correct an astounding 73% of the time). Actual playoff wins and losses apparently matter less to him than what the "computer" says. Thankfully the rest of the world measures success based on real outcomes.

Yes Rocks - I do look for unbiased objective ratings to back my opinion/reasoning. Logic makes sense to me as an accountant and helps form my opinions. Look at the 11 posts on this thread. There is one post on this that actually shows backup to support their belief. I don't see a single post that shows complete objective reasoning.

As wacky as you may say the the Sagarins are, show me another rating system that more closely compares to las vegas lines, that also shows CAA Football as better than the MVC the last 8 years.


Nation at least tried, although he had to go all the way back to the 1990's to indicate the CAA is currently better. I have already said in this thread I believed in the 2000's I think the CAA was the best, but the last 8 years, which I think are relevant years for "is", the MVC has easily been the best FCS conference. The MVC regularly finished above FSC leagues (probably about 20 times in the last 8 years) and the CAA has not I believe even once.

Rocks - show/provide the backup for your belief. To me the continued the "that's stupid? /"I now you are but what am I posts" shows/provides nothing to the discussion but on a message board all thoughts are appreciated.

The MVC finished above based on some rating system, as opposed to other tangible results? Well, I suppose you are at least admitting it. Take NDSU success out of the MVC’s RPI rating equation and what do you have? A different (and much lower) ranking for that conference to be sure.

I’ll stick with overall real world events.

“The overall real world results”. There’s some objective reasoning.

The title of this thread did not indicate a timeframe. In the last 8 years the MVC is likely a little better but it is hard to say. The CAA teams were pretty beat up last year come playoff time. Don’t know if the MVC was or not.

I feel the CAA is getting weaker. JMU sure seems to have more conference blow outs than they did in the previous decade.

(05-18-2019 07:50 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  The title of this thread did not indicate a timeframe. In the last 8 years the MVC is likely a little better but it is hard to say. The CAA teams were pretty beat up last year come playoff time. Don’t know if the MVC was or not.

I feel the CAA is getting weaker. JMU sure seems to have more conference blow outs than they did in the previous decade.

Is that because the other teams are getting weaker or JMU getting stronger?