In January the Blues sat in dead last of 31 NHL teams past the midpoint of the season. Per The Athletic, they even agreed to send Schenn to the Bruins and were working on a firesale. Ownership tabled the deal for a week, and 5 months later...

...the Blues won their 1st Stanley Cup tonight - against the Bruins.

It isn’t possible in football but who’s the closest comparable in college sports?

1983 NC State basketball was the first thing that came to mind. Not sure how comparable the two are?

Not the same level of success, but the 2006 Rice Owls had not been to a bowl in 40 years and started the season a typical 0-4. After a win vs Army and a loss to Tulane by 2TD, they sat at 1-5 midway through the season.

Rice caught fire and won each of its next six games to clinch its first bowl in two generations.

The winning streak started with an improbable win vs. UAB where the last minute comeback drive was halted by a UAB interception. Rather than take a knee to end the game, the defender tried to run and was stripped of the ball. Two plays later Rice won just its second game of the year and would win five more. Only the 40-29 win against UCF was by more than a TD.
Two 4th down conversions were needed on the final drive to beat ECU including a phenomenal leap by Jarrett Dillard to convert 4th and 18.
The final game of the year against SMU was a winner-take-all tilt for respectability as SMU was working on their own 20-something year bowl drought. Both teams tried to choke the thing away but Rice was the last one standing.

Like I said, not the same level of success, but probably the single most remarkable in-season turnaround I’ve ever witnessed in sports.

(06-12-2019 10:25 PM)cubucks Wrote:  1983 NC State basketball was the first thing that came to mind. Not sure how comparable the two are?

I would say not very. NC State's "david" status is exaggerated retrospectively. In fact, they were ranked in the top 20 that year for about two months, before falling out shortly before the ACC tournament. Then when they won the ACC tournament, they came back in before the NCAA tournament.

When folks say that NC State needed to win the ACC title to make the tourney, that's true, but only because the tournament was a much more restrictive size of 52 teams. Today, they probably would have needed one win in the ACC tourney to get an at-large bid.

And in the NHL, IIRC, regular season records seem to have the least to do with who wins the Stanley Cup than any other sport, so this result isn't all that surprising either.

2011 UConn basketball finished 9th in the Big East and then won the Big East Tournament and National Title.

It would be impossible for such a scenario to occur in college football. If a team were 3-3 at the mid way point, it could not qualify for the CFP, even if it ran the table against top 10 teams to finish the season. It could happen, I suppose, in a CFP with conference champion autobids.

With respect to St. Louis, by the end of the season, the Blues were in a pack of about 12 teams behind Tampa Bay all within 9 points of each other and had been hot the second half of the season. There was incredible parity below Tampa Bay. It is therefore not all that unexpected that they won the Stanley Cup. Someone had too. Their story is about how hot they got after a very mediocre first half.

Reminds me a little of the 1988 "Morgan Magic" Boston Red Sox, who went on a tear at mid season, winning 12 in a row to come from 9 games back to win the division. The Blues won 11 in a row at mid season. The Sox didn't make the World Series, though.

(06-13-2019 10:04 AM)orangefan Wrote:  It would be impossible for such a scenario to occur in college football. If a team were 3-3 at the mid way point, it could not qualify for the CFP, even if it ran the table against top 10 teams to finish the season. It could happen, I suppose, in a CFP with conference champion autobids.

With respect to St. Louis, by the end of the season, the Blues were in a pack of about 12 teams behind Tampa Bay all within 9 points of each other and had been hot the second half of the season. There was incredible parity below Tampa Bay. It is therefore not all that unexpected that they won the Stanley Cup. Someone had too. Their story is about how hot they got after a very mediocre first half.

Reminds me a little of the 1988 "Morgan Magic" Boston Red Sox, who went on a tear at mid season, winning 12 in a row to come from 9 games back to win the division. The Blues won 11 in a row at mid season. The Sox didn't make the World Series, though.

Under the current setup I could see 2-2 maybe. Definitely not 3-3 though.

(06-13-2019 09:45 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  2011 UConn basketball finished 9th in the Big East and then won the Big East Tournament and National Title.

Right, that's one of the two I thought of.

The other one was 2008 Fresno State baseball, 33-27 in the regular season, had to win their conference tournament to get into the NCAA tournament, got one of the lowest seeds in the tournament (seeded 4th in a 4-team regional), and won the national title.

(06-13-2019 10:04 AM)orangefan Wrote:  It would be impossible for such a scenario to occur in college football. If a team were 3-3 at the mid way point, it could not qualify for the CFP, even if it ran the table against top 10 teams to finish the season. It could happen, I suppose, in a CFP with conference champion autobids.

With respect to St. Louis, by the end of the season, the Blues were in a pack of about 12 teams behind Tampa Bay all within 9 points of each other and had been hot the second half of the season. There was incredible parity below Tampa Bay. It is therefore not all that unexpected that they won the Stanley Cup. Someone had too. Their story is about how hot they got after a very mediocre first half.

Reminds me a little of the 1988 "Morgan Magic" Boston Red Sox, who went on a tear at mid season, winning 12 in a row to come from 9 games back to win the division. The Blues won 11 in a row at mid season. The Sox didn't make the World Series, though.

This is why there has never been a true college NC at the top level. Even when it was just the polls, it reflects a full season performance, not how you are doing at the end. It doesn't allow for a team to improve as the season goes on and still compete for a title.

(06-13-2019 09:45 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  2011 UConn basketball finished 9th in the Big East and then won the Big East Tournament and National Title.

Good one!

(06-13-2019 09:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 10:25 PM)cubucks Wrote:  1983 NC State basketball was the first thing that came to mind. Not sure how comparable the two are?

I would say not very. NC State's "david" status is exaggerated retrospectively. In fact, they were ranked in the top 20 that year for about two months, before falling out shortly before the ACC tournament. Then when they won the ACC tournament, they came back in before the NCAA tournament.

When folks say that NC State needed to win the ACC title to make the tourney, that's true, but only because the tournament was a much more restrictive size of 52 teams. Today, they probably would have needed one win in the ACC tourney to get an at-large bid.

And in the NHL, IIRC, regular season records seem to have the least to do with who wins the Stanley Cup than any other sport, so this result isn't all that surprising either.

Great points!

(06-13-2019 10:46 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 09:45 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  2011 UConn basketball finished 9th in the Big East and then won the Big East Tournament and National Title.

Right, that's one of the two I thought of.

The other one was 2008 Fresno State baseball, 33-27 in the regular season, had to win their conference tournament to get into the NCAA tournament, got one of the lowest seeds in the tournament (seeded 4th in a 4-team regional), and won the national title.

Forgot about them, that's a great one too.

UCSB men's soccer was 7-6 halfway through the 2006 season. Went 10-1-1 after that to close the season and win the national championship.

(06-13-2019 09:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-12-2019 10:25 PM)cubucks Wrote:  1983 NC State basketball was the first thing that came to mind. Not sure how comparable the two are?

I would say not very. NC State's "david" status is exaggerated retrospectively. In fact, they were ranked in the top 20 that year for about two months, before falling out shortly before the ACC tournament. Then when they won the ACC tournament, they came back in before the NCAA tournament.

When folks say that NC State needed to win the ACC title to make the tourney, that's true, but only because the tournament was a much more restrictive size of 52 teams. Today, they probably would have needed one win in the ACC tourney to get an at-large bid.

And in the NHL, IIRC, regular season records seem to have the least to do with who wins the Stanley Cup than any other sport, so this result isn't all that surprising either.

As is Houston's status as a Goliath. They were amazingly exciting but not really all that much better than the elite teams of that era. They beat up on a weak SWC, which rarely made noise in March and never won a national title (and mostly sucked outside of Arkansas that year). Louisville had them on the ropes before the altitude got to them. Virginia beat them by 9 without Ralph Sampson. Carolina could have beaten them had it come to that, as could UNLV have done the same. And considering the fact that the title game was in Albuquerque and the altitude was a factor, many more teams could done what NC State did (the game exposed PSJ's lack of depth).

Long story short, it's overrated as an upset (though still enormous, both in-game and in the grand scheme of things).

(06-13-2019 12:43 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-13-2019 10:04 AM)orangefan Wrote:  It would be impossible for such a scenario to occur in college football. If a team were 3-3 at the mid way point, it could not qualify for the CFP, even if it ran the table against top 10 teams to finish the season. It could happen, I suppose, in a CFP with conference champion autobids.

With respect to St. Louis, by the end of the season, the Blues were in a pack of about 12 teams behind Tampa Bay all within 9 points of each other and had been hot the second half of the season. There was incredible parity below Tampa Bay. It is therefore not all that unexpected that they won the Stanley Cup. Someone had too. Their story is about how hot they got after a very mediocre first half.

Reminds me a little of the 1988 "Morgan Magic" Boston Red Sox, who went on a tear at mid season, winning 12 in a row to come from 9 games back to win the division. The Blues won 11 in a row at mid season. The Sox didn't make the World Series, though.

This is why there has never been a true college NC at the top level. Even when it was just the polls, it reflects a full season performance, not how you are doing at the end. It doesn't allow for a team to improve as the season goes on and still compete for a title.

IMO that's not a good reason for saying there has never been a true college NC. Why should a team be allowed to "improve", which is just a way of saying disregard its earlier games? A "full season of performance" makes the most sense because it disregards nothing. The best teams win start to finish, like the way baseball pennants were decided before divisional play.

One could argue that the NHL and other leagues have playoffs that are way too expansive, that allow undeserving teams, teams that didn't prove it over a whole season, to get in and then get flukey wins over better teams in the playoffs.

The best college equivalent would be Fresno State winning the CWS a decade or so ago - they were a 4 seed, which is very lightly regarded and blasted their way to the championship. In basketball, I'd go with Villanova beating G'town in 1985. And in football, I'd go with Utah beating Bama in the Sugar Bowl after the 2008 season, finishing as the only undefeated team but not winning the BCS and finishing #1 because of the structural discrimination. There was a move by many AP voters to vote them #1 anyway, but it just fell short.

It's really hard to make the CFP if you start off with multiple losses. I think the closest analogy to the 18-19 Blues would have to be a team that performed poorly the season prior only to turn it around the following year.

(06-13-2019 05:22 PM)Jared7 Wrote:  The best college equivalent would be Fresno State winning the CWS a decade or so ago - they were a 4 seed, which is very lightly regarded and blasted their way to the championship. In basketball, I'd go with Villanova beating G'town in 1985. And in football, I'd go with Utah beating Bama in the Sugar Bowl after the 2008 season, finishing as the only undefeated team but not winning the BCS and finishing #1 because of the structural discrimination. There was a move by many AP voters to vote them #1 anyway, but it just fell short.

Yes, if by "just fell short" you mean Florida got 48 votes and Utah got 16 votes, sure, LOL.

You can't compare Utah's season to Florida's. Florida played a far harder schedule, including beating Alabama when Alabama was undefeated and had everything to play for, in contrast to Utah beating Alabama after all their dreams of an SEC and national title had been dashed.

IIRC, the coaches poll had Utah #4.

Nobody had Utah #1, and for good reason. Florida played 6 teams that finished ranked in the polls and beat them all by double-digits. Utah just didn't face anything like that competition.

Sure you can compare Utah's 2008 season to Florida's. Utah played 4 teams that finished ranked in the AP and Florida played 5. And, importantly, Utah finished undefeated and Florida didn't, after losing at home to Mississippi. Strength of schedule is usually used as a tiebreaker to determine differences between teams with the same record. Utah had a better record than Florida did. When a team finishes undefeated and has a better record than another team, a comparison can certainly be made. To argue that "you can't compare" them is ludicrous. Why "can't you compare" them? Is there some special rule that says fans must remain silent and ignore the difference between an undefeated team and one with a loss? Where is this rule written? Is it a rule on this board that comparisons can't be made? Please cite it. Are comparisons between teams and their records somehow out of bounds on this forum? LOL

(06-12-2019 11:26 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  Not the same level of success, but the 2006 Rice Owls had not been to a bowl in 40 years and started the season a typical 0-4. After a win vs Army and a loss to Tulane by 2TD, they sat at 1-5 midway through the season.

Rice caught fire and won each of its next six games to clinch its first bowl in two generations.

The winning streak started with an improbable win vs. UAB where the last minute comeback drive was halted by a UAB interception. Rather than take a knee to end the game, the defender tried to run and was stripped of the ball. Two plays later Rice won just its second game of the year and would win five more. Only the 40-29 win against UCF was by more than a TD.
Two 4th down conversions were needed on the final drive to beat ECU including a phenomenal leap by Jarrett Dillard to convert 4th and 18.
The final game of the year against SMU was a winner-take-all tilt for respectability as SMU was working on their own 20-something year bowl drought. Both teams tried to choke the thing away but Rice was the last one standing.

Like I said, not the same level of success, but probably the single most remarkable in-season turnaround I’ve ever witnessed in sports.

That was a fun moment when they won the SMU game. We were there with some friends, one of whom was an athlete at Rice. Everyone went down on the field. Had my daughter on my shoulders and she was high fiving the players, "Great Game!!!"