Blog Article Out of Denver U. About Augustana


Key factors here.
1.All conference championship games could go to Sioux Falls.
2.Denver wants D2 schools from Minnesota and Wisconsin to move up first.
3.Dakotas could get too much voting powers which do not help Denver or other schools not in the Dakotas.
4.Summit is now being called the Sanford League.
5.Summit's commish is friends to Sanford Health that is spearheading Augustana to join the Summit.
6.November 4th meeting could vote to allow Augustana to join the Summit League.

Denver seems to be not too happy right now. They could rejoin the WAC where they could host championship games which CSU could be gone.

Would the football schools be unhappy if Augustana to join where they get Youngstown State and the MVC football members agree to form a new conference which all of the members except for North Dakota have played each other for 7 plus years with each other which would give them a waiver from the NCAA to be qualified for post season play by renaming MVFC to a new name.

Augusata, UMKC, Oral Roberts and Omaha would be left. They could get St. Thomas as number 5. Summit could get a waiver to allow more than 2 D2 call ups. Would the MVC add the 4 Summit members and St. Thomas? Would the new D1 conference send an invite to Central Oklahoma to make number 12?

"Denver wants D2 schools from Minnesota and Wisconsin to move up first."

There is one D-2 school in Wisconsin, UW-Parkside. No way it could up to D-1. Whitewater is probably the only school in Wisconsin that could move up to play D-1. But given its enormous success at D-3, it doesn't seem to have any interested whatsoever in moving up.

I think the real question here is "Does Bruno Mars is gay?"

(08-15-2019 04:56 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I think the real question here is "Does Bruno Mars is gay?"

That makes as much sense as the OP

The article did not say Denver wants D2 schools from MN and WI to move up. It did speculate on the idea.

Quote:Surely, there must be other universities in Minnesota or Wisconsin who are better prepared to make the jump to Division I.

With a whopping 9 "COULD"s including the title in the OP we all COULD use some counseling to find out why we continue to read and respond to David's fantasy threads.

Now a fan blog that gets less than 10 comments per post is source material for Davey.

I see the vote going 5-4 against and the Dakota 4 can say well, we tried.

Article also says 'a 6th school from the Dakotas may be too many,' but the Summit is only at 4 right now. Not really a reliable source

(08-15-2019 06:11 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Now a fan blog that gets less than 10 comments per post is source material for Davey.

Not gonna knock the blog. The guy's a pretty prominent Denver hockey fan. I want to say he posts here too. From what I saw he's pretty vocally anti-Augustana on Twitter.

Quote:According to KELO, South Dakota athletic director David Herbster said, as of now, “everybody would probably say ‘no,'” Herbster said. “The only reason I say that is right now, I might know enough about Augustana, but probably other members in the league right now don’t know anything about Augustana — the athletic department, their profile, even the university. So, as part of that process, whether it is a campus visit or different things like that, when Augustana gets to the point where they feel like they can start to have those conversations, then they reach out.”

Half the Summit shared a conference with Augustana for 40+ years. I'm pretty sure they're familiar with how the university's profiled.

That being said, if Augie got the call up, it'd scream of Sanford. The one that would be the most against it would be SDSU, because they wouldn't be the league's darlings anymore. I know the fanbases in Omaha and Denver would not be happy, and they'd start to press their ADs to start exploring options, but I don't know what options would be out there for either of them.

And if any of you say the WAC, no, that's a downgrade and a bad fit for both schools.

I'm feeling kind of resigned to it. I think the wheels are turning and they turn on Sanford grease.
(And every school would be happy to take a big can of Sanford grease $$.)

(08-15-2019 08:15 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(08-15-2019 06:11 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Now a fan blog that gets less than 10 comments per post is source material for Davey.

Not gonna knock the blog. The guy's a pretty prominent Denver hockey fan. I want to say he posts here too. From what I saw he's pretty vocally anti-Augustana on Twitter.

Quote:According to KELO, South Dakota athletic director David Herbster said, as of now, “everybody would probably say ‘no,'” Herbster said. “The only reason I say that is right now, I might know enough about Augustana, but probably other members in the league right now don’t know anything about Augustana — the athletic department, their profile, even the university. So, as part of that process, whether it is a campus visit or different things like that, when Augustana gets to the point where they feel like they can start to have those conversations, then they reach out.”

Half the Summit shared a conference with Augustana for 40+ years. I'm pretty sure they're familiar with how the university's profiled.

That being said, if Augie got the call up, it'd scream of Sanford. The one that would be the most against it would be SDSU, because they wouldn't be the league's darlings anymore. I know the fanbases in Omaha and Denver would not be happy, and they'd start to press their ADs to start exploring options, but I don't know what options would be out there for either of them.

And if any of you say the WAC, no, that's a downgrade and a bad fit for both schools.

The WAC is better in men’s basketball, men’s soccer and baseball than the Summit. With the WAC being a western conference with headquarters in Denver, it seems like the better fit for Denver.

(08-15-2019 09:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-15-2019 08:15 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(08-15-2019 06:11 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Now a fan blog that gets less than 10 comments per post is source material for Davey.

Not gonna knock the blog. The guy's a pretty prominent Denver hockey fan. I want to say he posts here too. From what I saw he's pretty vocally anti-Augustana on Twitter.

Quote:According to KELO, South Dakota athletic director David Herbster said, as of now, “everybody would probably say ‘no,'” Herbster said. “The only reason I say that is right now, I might know enough about Augustana, but probably other members in the league right now don’t know anything about Augustana — the athletic department, their profile, even the university. So, as part of that process, whether it is a campus visit or different things like that, when Augustana gets to the point where they feel like they can start to have those conversations, then they reach out.”

Half the Summit shared a conference with Augustana for 40+ years. I'm pretty sure they're familiar with how the university's profiled.

That being said, if Augie got the call up, it'd scream of Sanford. The one that would be the most against it would be SDSU, because they wouldn't be the league's darlings anymore. I know the fanbases in Omaha and Denver would not be happy, and they'd start to press their ADs to start exploring options, but I don't know what options would be out there for either of them.

And if any of you say the WAC, no, that's a downgrade and a bad fit for both schools.

The WAC is better in men’s basketball, men’s soccer and baseball than the Summit. With the WAC being a western conference with headquarters in Denver, it seems like the better fit for Denver.

Denver doesn't sponsor baseball and normally WAC basketball involves New Mexico State dragging the conference kicking and screaming out of the bottom 3 or 4 of the RPI. Denver's had a lot of soccer success at the Summit, and they don't have much competition to make the NCAAs. The only other school taking the sport seriously is Omaha.
What they have isn't a great fit but the WAC doesn't offer much better. It's still the Island of Misfit Toys.

(08-15-2019 09:59 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(08-15-2019 09:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-15-2019 08:15 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(08-15-2019 06:11 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Now a fan blog that gets less than 10 comments per post is source material for Davey.

Not gonna knock the blog. The guy's a pretty prominent Denver hockey fan. I want to say he posts here too. From what I saw he's pretty vocally anti-Augustana on Twitter.

Quote:According to KELO, South Dakota athletic director David Herbster said, as of now, “everybody would probably say ‘no,'” Herbster said. “The only reason I say that is right now, I might know enough about Augustana, but probably other members in the league right now don’t know anything about Augustana — the athletic department, their profile, even the university. So, as part of that process, whether it is a campus visit or different things like that, when Augustana gets to the point where they feel like they can start to have those conversations, then they reach out.”

Half the Summit shared a conference with Augustana for 40+ years. I'm pretty sure they're familiar with how the university's profiled.

That being said, if Augie got the call up, it'd scream of Sanford. The one that would be the most against it would be SDSU, because they wouldn't be the league's darlings anymore. I know the fanbases in Omaha and Denver would not be happy, and they'd start to press their ADs to start exploring options, but I don't know what options would be out there for either of them.

And if any of you say the WAC, no, that's a downgrade and a bad fit for both schools.

The WAC is better in men’s basketball, men’s soccer and baseball than the Summit. With the WAC being a western conference with headquarters in Denver, it seems like the better fit for Denver.

Denver doesn't sponsor baseball and normally WAC basketball involves New Mexico State dragging the conference kicking and screaming out of the bottom 3 or 4 of the RPI. Denver's had a lot of soccer success at the Summit, and they don't have much competition to make the NCAAs. The only other school taking the sport seriously is Omaha.
What they have isn't a great fit but the WAC doesn't offer much better. It's still the Island of Misfit Toys.

NMSU has monopolized the WAC's lone NCAA bid in basketball. That's the last thing Denver should want, to go back to being merely a minion of NMSU. And then there's that whole academic thing with Chicago State, Grand Canyon and Utah Valley.

They won't do it, but the Big West a better fit for Denver than the WAC. Much stronger academics. Traditionally better in volleyball and men's soccer. Since 2009, every single current BW member not named UC Riverside has made the NCAA Tournament in basketball at least once. With former member Pacific getting the bid in 2013, so that's 9 of 10 members having played in the NCAA's. Not to mention in four of the last six years BW reps Hawaii, UC Irvine, Cal Poly and UC Davis all won a tournament game which resulted in two extra credits each time (Cal Poly and UC Davis's First Four wins earned an extra credit, same as Hawaii and UC Irvine's Round of 64 wins). Much better from a competition angle.

Just saying...

(08-15-2019 10:06 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  NMSU has monopolized the WAC's lone NCAA bid in basketball. That's the last thing Denver should want, to go back to being merely a minion of NMSU. And then there's that whole academic thing with Chicago State, Grand Canyon and Utah Valley.

They won't do it, but the Big West a better fit for Denver than the WAC. Much stronger academics. Traditionally better in volleyball and men's soccer. Since 2009, every single current BW member not named UC Riverside has made the NCAA Tournament in basketball at least once. With former member Pacific getting the bid in 2013, so that's 9 of 10 members having played in the NCAA's. Not to mention in four of the last six years BW reps Hawaii, UC Irvine, Cal Poly and UC Davis all won a tournament game which resulted in two extra credits each time (Cal Poly and UC Davis's First Four wins earned an extra credit, same as Hawaii and UC Irvine's Round of 64 wins). Much better from a competition angle.

Just saying...

Your bus league charges a travel fee. Denver would be similar to Boise, which is with inflation $800K to $1M a year.

Just saying ...

Main takeaway here-- Denver is a misfit.

Yeah, Denver doesn't really fit great into any conference. Big Sky works geographically, but it's all public. WAC is unstable, they'd be hesitant to move there. WCC doesn't want them. Summit is scattered, but it works well enough. If they'd take them, Missouri Valley might be the next best options? Not really sure if that makes sense either.

(08-15-2019 11:57 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Yeah, Denver doesn't really fit great into any conference. Big Sky works geographically, but it's all public. WAC is unstable, they'd be hesitant to move there. WCC doesn't want them. Summit is scattered, but it works well enough. If they'd take them, Missouri Valley might be the next best options? Not really sure if that makes sense either.

WCC would be an amazing fit if they wanted them, but they don't. Big West is all So-Cal except for UC Davis and Hawaii so that wouldn't work. Barring the WCC, their best bet is sticking with other hockey-centered schools, which the Summit has a few of.

(08-15-2019 09:59 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(08-15-2019 09:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-15-2019 08:15 PM)Mav Wrote:  And if any of you say the WAC, no, that's a downgrade and a bad fit for both schools.

The WAC is better in men’s basketball, men’s soccer and baseball than the Summit. With the WAC being a western conference with headquarters in Denver, it seems like the better fit for Denver.

Denver doesn't sponsor baseball and normally WAC basketball involves New Mexico State dragging the conference kicking and screaming out of the bottom 3 or 4 of the RPI. Denver's had a lot of soccer success at the Summit, and they don't have much competition to make the NCAAs. The only other school taking the sport seriously is Omaha.
What they have isn't a great fit but the WAC doesn't offer much better. It's still the Island of Misfit Toys.

In basketball, by conference RPI in 2018-2019, the WAC was ranked #16 and the Summit #27 out of 32 conferences. The WAC won the head-to-head challenge with the Summit, 9-4. The WAC conference RPI ranking in 2017-2018 was #15 and in 2016-2017 was #17. So the conference has established in the past three seasons that it is about in the middle of the 32 conferences.

By Net ranking, NMSU was #40, UVU #90 and GCU #96 last season. The Summit did not have a school in the top 100. By RPI ranking, NMSU was # 43 and UVU #67. The Summit did not have a school in the top 100. Sure, the WAC has the benefit of having NMSU, but they also have the burden of Chicago State. Last season, Chicago State was ranked #353 in Net ranking, which was dead last in D1 college basketball.

Look at the upside of some of the programs in the WAC. There is nothing close to GCU in the Summit. GCU had a basketball budget of $5.3 million in 2017-2018. GCU averaged 7,170 fans per game in the 12th largest TV market in the country. Denver had the largest basketball expense budget in the Summit in 2017-2018 at $2.5 million. The only other school over $2 million in the Summit was Oral Roberts. Omaha had a basketball budget in 2017-2018 of $1.2 million.

CBU was the only school to beat NMSU in the WAC last season and they are only going to get better. They are the one school in the WAC that can keep up with GCU financially:

https://cbulancers.com/news/2019/7/9/gen...erway.aspx

"The APC will include a 10,800-square-foot weight room, the largest of the NCAA Division I non-football institutions in the state of California. The project will also include a dedicated nutrition space, a basketball practice court and a six-lane, 30-yard training area among other features." CBU has the advantage of being in the 2nd largest TV market in the country and in a market that is loaded with athletic talent.

Seattle is the school that is most like Denver in either conference. They had a $2.9 million basketball budget in 2017-2018. Both Denver and Seattle are highly rated academically, both are private, both have law schools. Seattle is in the #13 TV market in the country.

GCU, CBU and Seattle are private, western schools in big markets. Denver has the largest market in the Summit. They would be #5 in the WAC. Denver does not have anyone on their men's basketball roster from the west. No one from Colorado, California, Arizona, Washington. For a western school, that is ridiculous. Denver is not going to get into the WCC playing in the Summit. They need to recruit in the west and win in basketball. GCU, CBU and Seattle are all in a better position to get a bid an invite from the WCC, if one ever occurs. Denver has alumni chapters in Southern California, Phoenix and Seattle. The "Island of Misfit Toys" phrase really only applies to Chicago State and even Chicago has a alumni chapter for Denver.

As for men's soccer, the WAC has received two bids in the last in 3 of the last 4 seasons to the NCAA tournament. In 2017, Seattle and Air Force both went to the tournament. In 2018, GCU and Air Force were both invited. In 2015, Seattle won the WAC and UVU got an at-large bid to the tournament. UNLV won the title in 2016. Denver has a good men's soccer team but they would face tougher competition in the WAC, which would make the WAC and Denver better.

(08-16-2019 11:30 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  In basketball, by conference RPI in 2018-2019, the WAC was ranked #16 and the Summit #27 out of 32 conferences. The WAC won the head-to-head challenge with the Summit, 9-4. The WAC conference RPI ranking in 2017-2018 was #15 and in 2016-2017 was #17. So the conference has established in the past three seasons that it is about in the middle of the 32 conferences.

By Net ranking, NMSU was #40, UVU #90 and GCU #96 last season. The Summit did not have a school in the top 100. By RPI ranking, NMSU was # 43 and UVU #67. The Summit did not have a school in the top 100. Sure, the WAC has the benefit of having NMSU, but they also have the burden of Chicago State. Last season, Chicago State was ranked #353 in Net ranking, which was dead last in D1 college basketball.

Yes, they had a good year last year as a conference, while the Summit had a bad one. I don't think anyone can dispute that. Most of the time they're around the same level, and that's with the well-financed and well-supported FBS school the WAC gets.

Quote:Look at the upside of some of the programs in the WAC. There is nothing close to GCU in the Summit. GCU had a basketball budget of $5.3 million in 2017-2018. GCU averaged 7,170 fans per game in the 12th largest TV market in the country. Denver had the largest basketball expense budget in the Summit in 2017-2018 at $2.5 million. The only other school over $2 million in the Summit was Oral Roberts. Omaha had a basketball budget in 2017-2018 of $1.2 million.

Okay? Again, why would Denver want to compete with that? Their basketball program hasn't exactly been its strong suit, and GCU just came off of being a for-profit school. The city of Denver's not exactly known for its strong support of college teams, either.

Quote:CBU was the only school to beat NMSU in the WAC last season and they are only going to get better. They are the one school in the WAC that can keep up with GCU financially:

https://cbulancers.com/news/2019/7/9/gen...erway.aspx

"The APC will include a 10,800-square-foot weight room, the largest of the NCAA Division I non-football institutions in the state of California. The project will also include a dedicated nutrition space, a basketball practice court and a six-lane, 30-yard training area among other features." CBU has the advantage of being in the 2nd largest TV market in the country and in a market that is loaded with athletic talent.

Seattle is the school that is most like Denver in either conference. They had a $2.9 million basketball budget in 2017-2018. Both Denver and Seattle are highly rated academically, both are private, both have law schools. Seattle is in the #13 TV market in the country.

GCU, CBU and Seattle are private, western schools in big markets. Denver has the largest market in the Summit. They would be #5 in the WAC. Denver does not have anyone on their men's basketball roster from the west. No one from Colorado, California, Arizona, Washington. For a western school, that is ridiculous. Denver is not going to get into the WCC playing in the Summit. They need to recruit in the west and win in basketball. GCU, CBU and Seattle are all in a better position to get a bid an invite from the WCC, if one ever occurs. Denver has alumni chapters in Southern California, Phoenix and Seattle. The "Island of Misfit Toys" phrase really only applies to Chicago State and even Chicago has a alumni chapter for Denver.

If facilities meant wins Nebraska would have won a tournament game under Tim Miles, and markets don't matter at all at this level because neither conference will see any regular season games broadcast nationwide outside of ESPN3. You need a pre-built nationwide fanbase for markets to matter to you, like say, the Big Ten does. Otherwise market ratings are just meaningless numbers. I can guarantee that Washington State basketball gets more interest in the Seattle region than SU does, despite the campus being hundreds of miles away. I also wouldn't be surprised if a good portion of Seattle's basketball budget involved them having to fly down to the Mexican border for most of their conference away games.

Denver's bread and butter as an institution is being a prestigious pre-law and law school. They disproportionately serve the Northeast, which is why they've been able to have the lacrosse success they've had. The school itself generally doesn't look west for its student body, unlike the other schools in the area.

NMSU is a misfit because they're way too well-off and successful for their conference mates, and they really should be in the MWC, but politics are keeping them out. SU is a misfit because again, the WAC is a border-centric conference, and they're up by the wrong border. They should be WCC, but politics are keeping them out. UTRGV is basically on the Gulf Coast, stuck on a geographic island in the Central time zone. They'd be a better fit for the Southland, but the Southland's full, so they're stuck on an island. Again, a misfit. The WAC is still a conference of mismatched parts. There's more to it than Chicago State being a dumpster fire of an institution. I think there are the pieces for a cohesive conference here, GCU being a big one, but right now? It's not.

Quote:As for men's soccer, the WAC has received two bids in the last in 3 of the last 4 seasons to the NCAA tournament. In 2017, Seattle and Air Force both went to the tournament. In 2018, GCU and Air Force were both invited. In 2015, Seattle won the WAC and UVU got an at-large bid to the tournament. UNLV won the title in 2016. Denver has a good men's soccer team but they would face tougher competition in the WAC, which would make the WAC and Denver better.

Denver's a consistent top 25 team in soccer. They made the Sweet 16 in 2015 and the NCAA finals in 2016. They'll be fine wherever they go. Still, moving to a conference with steeper competition would be a bit of a dice roll. Right now they can make the NCAAs on an off year if Omaha doesn't field a good team either. They wouldn't get the same chance in the WAC.

Actually DU gets it's students from everywhere. And they do look west for many of them, Their top 10 Freshman class after Colorado:

519 46.4% Colorado

84 7.5% California
65 5.8% Illinois
49 4.4% Texas
48 4.3% Minnesota
27 2.4% Oregon
22 2.0% Massachusetts
21 1.9% Washington
17 1.5% Connecticut
17 1.5% Maryland
17 1.5% New York

The first three are no shock, as these are the highest per capita states to send kids out of state. Minnesota is a surprise 4th -- explains the Hockey program I guess. After that they get a few from every state.

The West is well represented, with 201 of 597 (33.7%) not from Colorado; additionally 142 (23.8%) are from the Great Lakes Midwest; 88 (14.7%) from Texas and the Plains States; 87 (14.6%) are from the Northeast; 70 (11.7%) from the South. Basically it's pretty evenly distributed. Weakest in the South, strongest in the West, solid in the Great Lakes. The Northeast is not as strongly recruited as Texas.

You could however lumping Maryland in with the Northeast and Great Lakes note that 22% come from that region, with 18% from the West and 46% from Colorado.

But this is not good picture, as there are also 902 International students making up 36.4% of the campus, and native Coloradans make up only 29.6% of the campus (!).

429 of the 902 (47.6%) are from China; 99 from Saudi Arabia, 81 from India. These three are 602 of 902 (67%). Of the rest, 22 from Canada (21 are listed on their sports teams), 13 Vietnam, 13 Taiwan, 13 Japan, 11 Iran, 10 Nigeria, 10 Norway . Everyone else is single digits. This looks like a cash cow, Asian elites, especially from China, and also Saudi oligarch's kids. Canadians are fewer than I expected. I found 21 of the 22 are listed on Athletic teams. All 3 Swedes, 2 of the 9 British, 3 of the 10 Norwegians are on sports teams (basically almost half the Europeans, plus Australia and South Americans). That paints a pretty clear picture of the International student recruiting. A few Athletes, and otherwise a cash cow from China and the Oligarchs kids of the developing world.

DU is an odd child. But to say they Lean East over West is not really accurate, unless by East you mean China.