(04-18-2020 09:07 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 05:40 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I hope so.

The game needs a return to the fundamentals. The lack of coaching in college by guys like Calipari has made the NBA almost unwatchable. How to shoot free throws and play defense with your feet instead of your hands need to be taught. I realize not everyone one can be Bob Knight, Dean Smith or Tony Bennett but come on. Simply rolling the ball out and trying to out athlete the other guy isn’t working.

Personally I would like to see freshman ruled ineligible again, across the board, in all intercollegiate athletics. That’s for a different conversation though.

Agree on the lack of fundamentals. One of the most glaring examples is when a player launches a three and just stands in place looking to see if the ball goes through the net. After you shoot, you do one of two things: follow your shot for the rebound or get your tail back down court to play D. Even the long-ball shooters for Belmont (a team I strongly root for here in Nashville) sometimes fail to do either. But the Bruin players DO move well without the ball (another fundamental that is lacking with many players).

Another thing that baffles me is how teams that are, for example, leading (even by only one point) with less than a minute to play will jack up a three. Instead, they should go down low for a high-percentage shot and to possibly draw a foul.

I'm old enough to remember many of the legendary old-school coaches from the 60s, 70s and 80s (most of them were hard-assed): Bob Knight, Al McGuire, Dean Smith, John Thompson, John Wooden, Denny Crum, Ray Meyer, etc. They seemingly were better teachers of the game than the elite coaches today. But maybe I'm just being a crusty old cuss who is biased toward a different era of college hoops than today's brand of ball.

Some great coaches you named there. Denny Crum used to tell stories about traveling up to Milwaukee to play the Warriors when Al was there. He said Al would tell him “stop by practice “ when you get to town. He didn’t worry about you seeing what he was doing. Denny said it was “organized chaos”. He said Al would say “guys I’ll be back“ and Denny said Al would say “let’s go get a beer”.

Your example of the three point Shot and what to do after the shot goes up is spot on what I was talking about. The shooter almost always knows where the rebound is going if it doesn’t go in. Failure to follow your shot would get you a spot on the bench next to the coach when I played.

My Dad used to play against a guy named John Havlicek in high school. When he was with the Celtics Dad would always point out that Hondo never stopped moving. He forced you to play defense the whole time his team had the ball. Dad said by the end of the 2nd half your legs were gone and Hondo was scoring at will. Dad said I know it works because he did it to me.

Great post Bill

(04-17-2020 07:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 02:13 PM)SouthernBoiNOLA Wrote:  on another note....no one can market the WNBA, cause there really ain't enough people out there that wanna see it.

College women's basketball, at least at the highest level, does well. I don't expect WNBA teams to replicate UConn or Tennessee attendance, but I think there's more of a market for high-grade professional women's basketball.

The WNBA's biggest problem is playing during the summer, after a long NBA season has tapped people's interest in basketball.

The WNBA has been around for 23 years now. It loses over $10 million a year. Silver recently said it has never lost less than that in any year. If fans really valued it, it would be making money.

The NBA keeps it going for PR purposes, and because there probably is a minor residual benefit in developing female fans of the game and thus of the NBA itself. But the WNBA basically exists for the same reason all G5 football programs exist - welfare transfers from a broader institution that is willing to keep it going.

College women's hoops is of course even worse. Maybe at UConn and Tennessee (still?) it makes money, everywhere else it is a big loser.

(04-17-2020 04:55 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Big cities that currently do not have NBA franchises like Seattle, Louisville, San Diego, Las Vegas, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Vancouver and Montreal could all be long-term NBA/G-League expansion cities.

I doubt you’ll ever see the NBA in Louisville. In the mid 80’s the NBA brought its summer league games to the city. I bet there weren’t 50 people at most of the games.

They held the games at the Louisville Gardens here in the city. The place only had 6,000 seats for basketball and it looked empty. That’s the size of a local high school gym here.

Louisville is a college sports town. Professional soccer has done well here but it doesn’t compete with UofL or UK. Professional basketball doesn’t stand a chance here.

(04-18-2020 11:07 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 09:07 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 05:40 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I hope so.

The game needs a return to the fundamentals. The lack of coaching in college by guys like Calipari has made the NBA almost unwatchable. How to shoot free throws and play defense with your feet instead of your hands need to be taught. I realize not everyone one can be Bob Knight, Dean Smith or Tony Bennett but come on. Simply rolling the ball out and trying to out athlete the other guy isn’t working.

Personally I would like to see freshman ruled ineligible again, across the board, in all intercollegiate athletics. That’s for a different conversation though.

Agree on the lack of fundamentals. One of the most glaring examples is when a player launches a three and just stands in place looking to see if the ball goes through the net. After you shoot, you do one of two things: follow your shot for the rebound or get your tail back down court to play D. Even the long-ball shooters for Belmont (a team I strongly root for here in Nashville) sometimes fail to do either. But the Bruin players DO move well without the ball (another fundamental that is lacking with many players).

Another thing that baffles me is how teams that are, for example, leading (even by only one point) with less than a minute to play will jack up a three. Instead, they should go down low for a high-percentage shot and to possibly draw a foul.

I'm old enough to remember many of the legendary old-school coaches from the 60s, 70s and 80s (most of them were hard-assed): Bob Knight, Al McGuire, Dean Smith, John Thompson, John Wooden, Denny Crum, Ray Meyer, etc. They seemingly were better teachers of the game than the elite coaches today. But maybe I'm just being a crusty old cuss who is biased toward a different era of college hoops than today's brand of ball.

Some great coaches you named there. Denny Crum used to tell stories about traveling up to Milwaukee to play the Warriors when Al was there. He said Al would tell him “stop by practice “ when you get to town. He didn’t worry about you seeing what he was doing. Denny said it was “organized chaos”. He said Al would say “guys I’ll be back“ and Denny said Al would say “let’s go get a beer”.

Your example of the three point Shot and what to do after the shot goes up is spot on what I was talking about. The shooter almost always knows where the rebound is going if it doesn’t go in. Failure to follow your shot would get you a spot on the bench next to the coach when I played.

My Dad used to play against a guy named John Havlicek in high school. When he was with the Celtics Dad would always point out that Hondo never stopped moving. He forced you to play defense the whole time his team had the ball. Dad said by the end of the 2nd half your legs were gone and Hondo was scoring at will. Dad said I know it works because he did it to me.

Great post Bill

I was a big fan of Hondo back in the day. Loved the Celtics of the 1970s and 80s. I somewhat romanticized the city of Boston as a kid and younger man, as I was starting to enjoy Celtic music at that time. The old Boston Garden was stellar. I enjoyed watching on TV in the 70s "Red on Roundball" with Red Auerbach smoking his cigar and offering coaching tips.

My father was an athletic trainer in the 1950s for what was then called Memphis State College. I recall in the late 1960s Pops and I talking about the Tigers and the rivalries with Louisville and Cincinnati. My brother enrolled at UC in 1998 (I had long followed UC and UL in the MVC and Metro) and I became an instant Bearcat fan. Then he married in 2009 a woman who is a Louisville grad and we now also root for the Cardinals. It's unusual to have a family that cheers for the Tigers, Cards and Bearcats — but we do.

I'm a big fan of the city of Louisville. Great town. Living in Nashville, I've been many times and love it.

Thanks for the response, Jim.

(04-18-2020 11:21 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 04:55 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Big cities that currently do not have NBA franchises like Seattle, Louisville, San Diego, Las Vegas, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Vancouver and Montreal could all be long-term NBA/G-League expansion cities.

I doubt you’ll ever see the NBA in Louisville. In the mid 80’s the NBA brought its summer league games to the city. I bet there weren’t 50 people at most of the games.

They held the games at the Louisville Gardens here in the city. The place only had 6,000 seats for basketball and it looked empty. That’s the size of a local high school gym here.

Louisville is a college sports town. Professional soccer has done well here but it doesn’t compete with UofL or UK. Professional basketball doesn’t stand a chance here.

C-Jim,

I recall the Kentucky Colonels of the old ABA drew fairly well in the 1970s. But maybe I'm wrong. I enjoyed watching Dan Issel and Louie Dampier on TV back then.

But I do agree that Louisville would not be particularly well suited for the NBA now. MLS ... maybe. We could have some good pro soccer rivalries with St. Louis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Nashville and Louisville.

(04-18-2020 11:23 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I was a big fan of Hondo back in the day.

Back in the 1970s, John Havlicek was a Super Star, a household name even to people who cared nothing about the NBA. He was as known as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or Joe Namath or Jack Nicklaus or Jimmy Connors. When he retired in 1978, it was Big Deal, and his final game was broadcast live on a Sunday afternoon, rare for the NBA back then. He was an icon, and deservedly so - an Iron Man who set records for games and minutes played while never taking a possession off in either direction, a star player over 16 seasons even his last one, great in the regular season, great in the post-season, a title winner 8/16 years, a great individual playmaker and team player. Basically nothing but superlatives about him and nary anything negative.

And I say all this as a Celtics "hater" of 45 years standing, who as a little boy rooted with fervor for my beloved Bullets against the Celtics teams of Hondo's last 5 or so years.

So what's astonishing to me is how his name almost never comes up these days. He's just never mentioned hardly at all.

(04-18-2020 12:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 11:23 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I was a big fan of Hondo back in the day.

Back in the 1970s, John Havlicek was a Super Star, a household name even to people who cared nothing about the NBA. He was as known as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or Joe Namath or Jack Nicklaus or Jimmy Connors. When he retired in 1978, it was Big Deal, and his final game was broadcast live on a Sunday afternoon, rare for the NBA back then. He was an icon, and deservedly so - an Iron Man who set records for games and minutes played while never taking a possession off in either direction, a star player over 16 seasons even his last one, great in the regular season, great in the post-season, a title winner 8/16 years, a great individual playmaker and team player. Basically nothing but superlatives about him and nary anything negative.

And I say all this as a Celtics "hater" of 45 years standing, who as a little boy rooted with fervor for my beloved Bullets against the Celtics teams of Hondo's last 5 or so years.

So what's astonishing to me is how his name almost never comes up these days. He's just never mentioned hardly at all.

Agree on everything you note about John H. He was an outstanding player. And you are correct about the lack of mention nowadays of his game and contributions. Unfortunate. I also strongly enjoyed watching Dave Cowans and Jo Jo White in the 1970s. Those men were fundamentally sound players. And then the Celtics transitioned in the 1980s to Robert Parrish, Keven McHale, the late and great Dennis Johnson and Larry Bird, also all strong with fundamentals. I would love to see Bob Parrish, Kevin McHale and Larry Legend school NBA big men today.

As to the Bullets, I always enjoyed Wes Unseld's game. The man was a beast down low. Check this write-up from Wiki (accurate, too):

"Famed for his rebounding, bone-jarring picks and ability to ignite a fast break with his crisp, accurate outlet passes, Unseld made up for his lack of size (i.e. height) with brute strength and sheer determination."

(04-18-2020 10:42 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 04:55 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Big cities that currently do not have NBA franchises like Seattle, Louisville, San Diego, Las Vegas, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Vancouver and Montreal could all be long-term NBA/G-League expansion cities.

Cities like Columbus with 1m+ population that don't have NBA, NFL or MLB teams seem like reasonable targets ... though offhand I don't know how many that would be.

Richmond Va, Providence, Rochester, NY, Austin, Norfolk, Grand Rapids, Mich, Hartford, Tuscon Az

(04-18-2020 05:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 10:42 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 04:55 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Big cities that currently do not have NBA franchises like Seattle, Louisville, San Diego, Las Vegas, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Vancouver and Montreal could all be long-term NBA/G-League expansion cities.

Cities like Columbus with 1m+ population that don't have NBA, NFL or MLB teams seem like reasonable targets ... though offhand I don't know how many that would be.

Richmond Va, Providence, Rochester, NY, Austin, Norfolk, Grand Rapids, Mich, Hartford, Tuscon Az

Good list of cities, cuseroc. Those cities would seemingly be targets. Of note: Grand Rapids is one of the nation's elite craft beer cities.

(04-18-2020 07:05 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 05:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 10:42 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 04:55 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Big cities that currently do not have NBA franchises like Seattle, Louisville, San Diego, Las Vegas, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Vancouver and Montreal could all be long-term NBA/G-League expansion cities.

Cities like Columbus with 1m+ population that don't have NBA, NFL or MLB teams seem like reasonable targets ... though offhand I don't know how many that would be.

Richmond Va, Providence, Rochester, NY, Austin, Norfolk, Grand Rapids, Mich, Hartford, Tuscon Az

Good list of cities, cuseroc. Those cities would seemingly be targets. Of note: Grand Rapids is one of the nation's elite craft beer cities.

I could not imagine the NBA ever expanding to those cities. Those are the kinds of cities it expanded *away* from in the 1960s as it grew into a major sports league.

The NBA will only expand to "big brand" cities. Las Vegas, maybe a return to Seattle or San Diego, cities like that.

If it is going to expand at all, which is unlikely. If one of those cities gets a team it will be more likely to come from movement from a weakly-supported city, such as New Orleans.

The NBA wants to move the Memphis and New Orleans franchise, but the owners have to want to do that.

Yes Las Vegas is the top choice. Seattle is possible, but less so. Mexico City is high on the League office targets. But Mexico City will probably get a G-League Academy team first. Which BTW increases the push to turn G-League teams into more of year round junior teams with some International play.

(04-18-2020 08:01 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The NBA wants to move the Memphis and New Orleans franchise, but the owners have to want to do that.

Yes Las Vegas is the top choice. Seattle is possible, but less so. Mexico City is high on the League office targets. But Mexico City will probably get a G-League Academy team first. Which BTW increases the push to turn G-League teams into more of year round junior teams with some International play.

NBA cannot move the New Orleans or Memphis markets because the Deep South has to have NBA.... the NBA learned that over the years the south viewers were not represented in The league... generations of kids were playing football and baseball to NBA loss of viewers... its a long view but the NBA cannot have a team in Houston and only Atlanta and think they cover the Deep South ... they are committed and I can speak for NOLA... New Orleans is a basketball town now because of the NBA in the city over the last 15 yrs...

The league should expand by 2 teams ... Seattle deserves one and I would say maybe Louisville! In the East

I hope the 1 and done is over too. It caused me to not to watch college basketball as much I used to when I was in high school and early part of college. I don't have a problem with a kid going pro after high school, but if you go to school you need to be there or at least try for an education. I would think it should be like go pro after high school or be there minimum 2 or 3 years. Way too many young players in the NBA that lack the basics. They can either shoot 3s from certain spots or dunk. There is no mid range jumper, no low post play, very few teams have ball movement.

(04-18-2020 08:01 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The NBA wants to move the Memphis and New Orleans franchise, but the owners have to want to do that.

Yes Las Vegas is the top choice. Seattle is possible, but less so. Mexico City is high on the League office targets. But Mexico City will probably get a G-League Academy team first. Which BTW increases the push to turn G-League teams into more of year round junior teams with some International play.

The NBA can cash in expansion fees to recoup lost COVID-19 revenues.

It seems logical for the NBA to expand in Vegas and Seattle for #31 and #32, which crazy enough, is exactly what the NHL just did.*

*- And Vegas has been a roaring success in selling out games, like Nashville, Tampa, etc.

(04-18-2020 07:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 07:05 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 05:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 10:42 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 04:55 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Big cities that currently do not have NBA franchises like Seattle, Louisville, San Diego, Las Vegas, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Vancouver and Montreal could all be long-term NBA/G-League expansion cities.

Cities like Columbus with 1m+ population that don't have NBA, NFL or MLB teams seem like reasonable targets ... though offhand I don't know how many that would be.

Richmond Va, Providence, Rochester, NY, Austin, Norfolk, Grand Rapids, Mich, Hartford, Tuscon Az

Good list of cities, cuseroc. Those cities would seemingly be targets. Of note: Grand Rapids is one of the nation's elite craft beer cities.

I could not imagine the NBA ever expanding to those cities. Those are the kinds of cities it expanded *away* from in the 1960s as it grew into a major sports league.

The NBA will only expand to "big brand" cities. Las Vegas, maybe a return to Seattle or San Diego, cities like that.

If it is going to expand at all, which is unlikely. If one of those cities gets a team it will be more likely to come from movement from a weakly-supported city, such as New Orleans.

Many of those cities are as large as some major league cities right now and with a larger corporate base that the major leagues like to see. Im not saying that any of these cities will get a major league team. Or even that they could support a major league team. Someone asked about cities over with populations over a million. All those cities have populations over a million.

(04-18-2020 09:13 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 07:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 07:05 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 05:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 10:42 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Cities like Columbus with 1m+ population that don't have NBA, NFL or MLB teams seem like reasonable targets ... though offhand I don't know how many that would be.

Richmond Va, Providence, Rochester, NY, Austin, Norfolk, Grand Rapids, Mich, Hartford, Tuscon Az

Good list of cities, cuseroc. Those cities would seemingly be targets. Of note: Grand Rapids is one of the nation's elite craft beer cities.

I could not imagine the NBA ever expanding to those cities. Those are the kinds of cities it expanded *away* from in the 1960s as it grew into a major sports league.

The NBA will only expand to "big brand" cities. Las Vegas, maybe a return to Seattle or San Diego, cities like that.

If it is going to expand at all, which is unlikely. If one of those cities gets a team it will be more likely to come from movement from a weakly-supported city, such as New Orleans.

Many of those cities are as large as some major league cities right now and with a larger corporate base that the major leagues like to see. Im not saying that any of these cities will get a major league team. Or even that they could support a major league team. Someone asked about cities over with populations over a million. All those cities have populations over a million.

And I was referencing (to GW11's point) cities with NBA/G-League expansion potential, not cities that would be NBA candidates.

Grand Rapids doesn't need the NBA (or the GLeague, for that matter) because it has lots of breweries!!!!

(04-18-2020 11:27 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 11:21 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 04:55 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Big cities that currently do not have NBA franchises like Seattle, Louisville, San Diego, Las Vegas, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Vancouver and Montreal could all be long-term NBA/G-League expansion cities.

I doubt you’ll ever see the NBA in Louisville. In the mid 80’s the NBA brought its summer league games to the city. I bet there weren’t 50 people at most of the games.

They held the games at the Louisville Gardens here in the city. The place only had 6,000 seats for basketball and it looked empty. That’s the size of a local high school gym here.

Louisville is a college sports town. Professional soccer has done well here but it doesn’t compete with UofL or UK. Professional basketball doesn’t stand a chance here.

C-Jim,

I recall the Kentucky Colonels of the old ABA drew fairly well in the 1970s. But maybe I'm wrong. I enjoyed watching Dan Issel and Louie Dampier on TV back then.

But I do agree that Louisville would not be particularly well suited for the NBA now. MLS ... maybe. We could have some good pro soccer rivalries with St. Louis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Nashville and Louisville.

Bill
My parents were season ticket holders. The Colonels led the ABA in attendance if I remember correctly. It’s my belief the city soured on professional basketball after John Y and Elle Brown refused to accept the NBA’s invitation to join the NBA for a 1 million dollar buy in and elected to part our team out player by player instead.

If the owners hadn’t done, Louisville would have been a pro basketball city and UofL would still be playing MVC or CUSA games in Freedom Hall. The way it worked out local business through their support behind UofL (and to some extent UK) and the rest is history.

I also remember the rivalry games with Memphis and Cincinnati. If we still played those games I would probably still watch college basketball.

I have been a season ticket holder for Louisville City for the last two seasons. We just finished our soccer specific stadium in February. We were supposed to play our first USL game there on April 11th. With Covid-19 shutting everything down that will have to wait.

Our name has showed up on MLS expansion lists but I don’t think there is a lot of interest for it in the city. MLS franchises are owned by the corporation, not local owners. That’s why we don’t have promotion and relegation which the MLS will need to become a true professional football league.

Thanks for your reply.

Momentum:

5 star just decommitted from UCLA for the G-League package



....

Comment: Corona virus might have kick started this, as the G-League is a lot more likely to play than college. And you can get real money at the same time. Timing could not be better for the NBA.

Likely lack of CFB this fall makes it conversely terrible for the NFL as the 2021 draft will be a complete crap shoot, and many top players will not come out early rather play in 2021 to get their draft stock up, making it super thin.

This is far more lucrative than the NCAA



https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/...9752462336

(04-18-2020 05:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-18-2020 10:42 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-17-2020 04:55 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Big cities that currently do not have NBA franchises like Seattle, Louisville, San Diego, Las Vegas, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Vancouver and Montreal could all be long-term NBA/G-League expansion cities.

Cities like Columbus with 1m+ population that don't have NBA, NFL or MLB teams seem like reasonable targets ... though offhand I don't know how many that would be.

Richmond Va, Providence, Rochester, NY, Austin, Norfolk, Grand Rapids, Mich, Hartford, Tuscon Az

Grand Rapids has a G-League team. They want to move it to Detroit. Seems silly to me as the city's AHL Griffins & Minor League Whitecaps do really well.