(05-02-2020 08:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 04:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 02:16 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-02-2020 10:59 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  It's not happening, folks. Too many governors are trying to extend this as long as possible, power hungry & out of control. Thankfully I think we're getting closer & closer to the point where courts are going to have to start ruling.

You’re only looking at it from the government orders versus civil liberties perspective, though. The other side of it (and what many businesses are MUCH more worried about as I can tell you as a corporate lawyer) would be the civil liability from opening up too fast and being the site of a new outbreak among employees and/or customers. No one gets immunity (in the legal sense) from wrongful death suits and bodily injury claims just because some state governments feel that it’s politically expedient to open up.

Plus, get ready for years of fights about insurance policies (and I’m not talking about health insurance, but rather commercial general liability and workers comp insurance). Virtually no business with sizable assets is going to open up unless they know that they are fully insured. I can pretty much guarantee you that every insurer out there is going to say that they will only cover a business going forward under a very specific set of circumstances with specific precautions in place regardless of what the government says. For instance, the Governor of Florida can tell that the state can open back up all that he wants for political purposes, but if Disney World and Universal Studios wouldn’t be insured if they open back up, then they’re not opening back up.

That’s not to say that things must be closed any longer than necessary... but the definition of “necessary” is going to look very different to an insurance company (which in turn businesses *really* depend upon in order to feel safe to open) than politicians that just want to magically wish away a public health crisis based on the political whims of their supporters.

The problem with any liability case will be causation. With non-symptomatic transmission and the ability of the virus to survive on surfaces (or even in the air)---literally any case could have been contracted literally anywhere. Proving where the infection originated will be next to impossible. That wont stop cases from being filed---but no idea how you could prove for sure the source of any one case.

That never stopped a tort lawyer.

Of course. They just won’t win very often.

I agree: it'd be impossible to tell where someone contacted the virus - especially if it can be up to 14 days before you show symptoms - and more and more places open up. We'll see how states like Georgia - although Georgia certainly isn't the only one. South Dakota never even shut down.

Out side of New York, new cases are going up 17% a week. We have not yet peaked.

(05-03-2020 03:23 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Out side of New York, new cases are going up 17% a week. We have not yet peaked.

I haven't followed closely the last couple of weeks. Has testing improved? Better testing is likely to uncover more new cases.

Where are we with rate of new hospitalizations and new deaths? Seems like the growth rates for those important stats has decelerated.

Testing is improving, but slowly. California we are still well below 40,000 per day. We have to hit 60,000 per day to lift. So shelter in place was extended to May 31st from May 4th yesterday. California actually has specific targets to lift, because the idea is to lift and not have to retract that. I strongly suspect most of the States opening up will have to close back down as their hospital's ICU beds start to head toward capacity.

I'm in the Bay Area and we are doing better than most of the country, and the suspected to confirmed ratio is narrowing. But the rate of new cases going down is damn slow. Hopefully in a month it'll drop significantly.

We have a great tracking system in the State, and the counties deserve a lot of the credit (Counties in California are very large and actually matter, allowing multiple cities into the millions to have a common control). The SF Chronicle has a great tracking website:

https://projects.sfchronicle.com/2020/coronavirus-map/