(06-06-2020 07:31 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  The SWC and Big East never should have been broken up, and the Big 8 was a great conference.

There should be 7 or 8 ten-team power conferences, not 5:

ACC (add two schools)
Big Ten
Big Eight (add two schools)
Original Big East (add two schools)
Original CUSA (now AAC)
PAC-10
SEC
SWC (add two schools)

I could get on board with that...

(06-06-2020 06:25 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  

(06-06-2020 02:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  UMBC beat #1 seed Virginia in the NCAA tournament; that doesn't mean UMBC belongs in the ACC or the Big East.

UMBC is a geographic misfit in the America East; they're 250 miles from their nearest conference opponent.

I suspect adding them was admitting they missed being in that region, like when Towson and Delaware were in it. Problem for AmEast was, they never filled the gap between the SUNY’s and UMBC. NJIT could have been a starting point. Monmouth might help even.

+1’s to those who said Chicago State and the WAC (or D1 in general) and Fordham in the A10.

I think it’s crap Northeastern and Hofstra kept their CAA spots after dumping football. Those guys should still be in AmEast.

(06-06-2020 07:31 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  The SWC and Big East never should have been broken up, and the Big 8 was a great conference.

There should be 7 or 8 ten-team power conferences, not 5:

ACC (add two schools)
Big Ten
Big Eight (add two schools)
Original Big East (add two schools)
Original CUSA (now AAC)
PAC-10
SEC
SWC (add two schools)

YES! Eight 10 team power conferences that make geographic sense and the 8 champs make up the playoff field. Will never happen but would be awesome.

(06-06-2020 01:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  In G5 the list is rather long. Too many schools were added to make some mythical number rather than actually meeting the standards. Tulsa, Tulane and ECU in the American; San Jose State in Olympic Sports in the MWC; UTEP, UTSA, WKU, FAI, FIU in C-USA; Buffalo in the MAC. ULM even being in FBS.

I'm not seeing Buffalo is an add to make some mythical number ... every since the mid-70's, the MAC has been adding schools outside of Ohio / Michigan in a deliberate effort to broaden the footprint ... of the seven adds since the "Michigan Directionals" became a trio, only one was in Ohio/Michigan. It's just that of the seven, all were footloose except for Ball State and Buffalo.

A school based in a Lake Erie city really isn't out of place in a conference where five of the eleven other schools are based around Lake Erie.

(06-07-2020 08:02 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-06-2020 01:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  In G5 the list is rather long. Too many schools were added to make some mythical number rather than actually meeting the standards. Tulsa, Tulane and ECU in the American; San Jose State in Olympic Sports in the MWC; UTEP, UTSA, WKU, FAI, FIU in C-USA; Buffalo in the MAC. ULM even being in FBS.

I'm not seeing Buffalo is an add to make some mythical number ... every since the mid-70's, the MAC has been adding schools outside of Ohio / Michigan in a deliberate effort to broaden the footprint ... of the seven adds since the "Michigan Directionals" became a trio, only one was in Ohio/Michigan. It's just that of the seven, all were footloose except for Ball State and Buffalo.

A school based in a Lake Erie city really isn't out of place in a conference where five of the eleven other schools are based around Lake Erie.

So there's hope for RIT, UWGB, and Oswego (if they add football) or Brockport joining the MAC based on that standard?

(06-07-2020 08:02 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(06-06-2020 01:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  In G5 the list is rather long. Too many schools were added to make some mythical number rather than actually meeting the standards. Tulsa, Tulane and ECU in the American; San Jose State in Olympic Sports in the MWC; UTEP, UTSA, WKU, FAI, FIU in C-USA; Buffalo in the MAC. ULM even being in FBS.

I'm not seeing Buffalo is an add to make some mythical number ... every since the mid-70's, the MAC has been adding schools outside of Ohio / Michigan in a deliberate effort to broaden the footprint ... of the seven adds since the "Michigan Directionals" became a trio, only one was in Ohio/Michigan. It's just that of the seven, all were footloose except for Ball State and Buffalo.

A school based in a Lake Erie city really isn't out of place in a conference where five of the eleven other schools are based around Lake Erie.

I agree. UCF in the MAC on the other hand...

Marshall fit, and they’re not on the Great Lakes.

Saint Louis in the A10. If you think WVU in the Big XII is bad geographically, SLU in the A10 deserves to be in the same conversation. Culturally, they kinda fit, but geographically, it's as bad as WVU in the Big XII.

Somewhat controversial here, but I'm going to say Georgetown in the Patriot League and the Big East. Yes, they have done exceptionally well in both leagues, but I feel like Georgetown deserves an Ivy League spot. Yes, it's true that the vast majority of the Ivy League was founded back when the USA was the thirteen colonies, but, in Georgetown's defense, Cornell was founded long after America's colonial period(more like during the war between the states) and there's not too many years separating Penn from Georgetown.

(06-07-2020 12:38 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Saint Louis in the A10. If you think WVU in the Big XII is bad geographically, SLU in the A10 deserves to be in the same conversation. Culturally, they kinda fit, but geographically, it's as bad as WVU in the Big XII.

Somewhat controversial here, but I'm going to say Georgetown in the Patriot League and the Big East. Yes, they have done exceptionally well in both leagues, but I feel like Georgetown deserves an Ivy League spot. Yes, it's true that the vast majority of the Ivy League was founded back when the USA was the thirteen colonies, but, in Georgetown's defense, Cornell was founded long after America's colonial period(more like during the war between the states) and there's not too many years separating Penn from Georgetown.

Except that Cornell had exceptional football to go with the academics at the time and Georgetown was in what was considered the backwater South back then.

(06-07-2020 12:05 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(06-06-2020 06:25 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  

(06-06-2020 02:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  UMBC beat #1 seed Virginia in the NCAA tournament; that doesn't mean UMBC belongs in the ACC or the Big East.

UMBC is a geographic misfit in the America East; they're 250 miles from their nearest conference opponent.

I suspect adding them was admitting they missed being in that region, like when Towson and Delaware were in it. Problem for AmEast was, they never filled the gap between the SUNY’s and UMBC. NJIT could have been a starting point. Monmouth might help even.

+1’s to those who said Chicago State and the WAC (or D1 in general) and Fordham in the A10.

I think it’s crap Northeastern and Hofstra kept their CAA spots after dumping football. Those guys should still be in AmEast.

Yup. Northeastern would be a much better fit to put their basketball there than in the CAA. Their basketball program has been to the NCAAs twice in the last 6 years, and lost in the conference finals 2 other times, and they struggle to break four figures attendance a game.

Hofstra at least has a decent fan base and provides an avenue into the NY market. Before the pandemic they would have had some following in this year’s tourney.

Somebody like Stony Brook or Albany would be a good add to the league. Personally I’d go south and pick up someone like North Florida or UNCG, but I’m not the commissioner.

I would argue that FAU and FIU shouldn't be in CUSA. They should be at best independents. UTEP and UTSA should be in the MWC, not CUSA. Marshall should be in the MAC. ODU should be an independent in football and in the A-10 for all of their other sports.

(06-07-2020 01:49 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  I would argue that FAU and FIU shouldn't be in CUSA. They should be at best independents. UTEP and UTSA should be in the MWC, not CUSA. Marshall should be in the MAC. ODU should be an independent in football and in the A-10 for all of their other sports.

“At best independents” ummm FAU has won CUSA twice in the past 3 years.

(06-07-2020 01:56 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 01:49 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  I would argue that FAU and FIU shouldn't be in CUSA. They should be at best independents. UTEP and UTSA should be in the MWC, not CUSA. Marshall should be in the MAC. ODU should be an independent in football and in the A-10 for all of their other sports.

“At best independents” ummm FAU has won CUSA twice in the past 3 years.

Never said they weren't good enough to be in CUSA. They are not a good geographical fit.

(06-06-2020 04:36 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(06-06-2020 03:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-06-2020 01:11 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  ULM belongs on the Southland. They are arguably the least successful FCS-to-FBS move-up in history. I mean, I hate to rag on a Sun Belt member, but they just cannot compete. They have the FBS's lowest budget. They play only five home games every year. They can't pay for a coach competitively at the SB/C-USA level. They have extremely low attendance. Their facilities, including their stadium, are badly outdated.

They do at times punch above their weight. It's impressive that they went 5-7 last year and 6-6 in '18. They did once beat Alabama in Saban's first year, and they beat Arkansas in the early 2010's. But the highlights are few and far between. Dare I say, the SB would be better off without them.

I might lose rep points from Warhawks fan, but I'm just telling the truth.

I gave you -1 for ignorance while claiming to tell the truth.

ULM is not doing well now. They belong in FCS with their current budgets. But they started off pretty well in FBS, much better than average. Its recent years when they have slid.

And there are a number of schools that actually have started off very poorly. Akron and Buffalo both were laughing stocks at the start. Georgia St. was really, really bad for a few years.

ULM has had one winning season and three 6-6 seasons since moving up to 1-AA/FBS in 1994. The first 6-6 season was not until 2007. First and only winning FBS season was not until 2012.

EDIT: Maybe I would have been clearer had I said "least successful former FCS/1-AA program" rather than "move-up." I guess move-up implies the early years after a transition. I was referring to their entire tenure in 1-A/FBS, which has been over .500 once in 26 seasons. Even Buffalo, bad as they were to start in FBS in 1999, won the MAC by 2008.

That's a different discussion. I wouldn't agree, but its arguable. I do think they are the school that most needs to go back to FCS, but that has to do with school size, in-state competition and budget in addition to on the field success. If on the field success is the only criteria, then Eastern Michigan and San Jose St. are your top candidates. Both have had rare good years, but are typically horrible. ULM is usually competitive with the rest of their conference.

ULM has had at least 4 wins in 19 of their 26 years since they moved up. They had 2 and 3 wins in their first two years. They had a bad spell from 2000-2003 with 7 wins in 4 years. In 2015 they had 2 wins. So they have had at least 4 wins all but 1 of the last 17 years.

San Jose by comparison has had 13 seasons with 4 or more wins in the last 26 years, 3 of those years being exactly 4. They have had frequent 1 and 2 win seasons and only 3 winning seasons.

Eastern Michigan has had 11 seasons with 4 or more wins in those 26 years (5 of those with 4 wins). They also have had 3 winning seasons.

Someone above mentioned ULM's SEC victories. There may have been some, but I can't think of any San Jose or EMU wins over major football programs.

(06-07-2020 02:55 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 01:56 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 01:49 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  I would argue that FAU and FIU shouldn't be in CUSA. They should be at best independents. UTEP and UTSA should be in the MWC, not CUSA. Marshall should be in the MAC. ODU should be an independent in football and in the A-10 for all of their other sports.

“At best independents” ummm FAU has won CUSA twice in the past 3 years.

Never said they weren't good enough to be in CUSA. They are not a good geographical fit.

They have some of the strongest football programs in CUSA, they aren’t going anywhere. It would make more sense to realign CUSA/SB into an eastern and a western conference. Would help the geography a lot. That being said, I don’t think any teams in CUSA have a problem with getting access to Florida recruits and exposure.

(06-07-2020 03:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  ULM has had at least 4 wins in 19 of their 26 years since they moved up. They had 2 and 3 wins in their first two years. They had a bad spell from 2000-2003 with 7 wins in 4 years. In 2015 they had 2 wins. So they have had at least 4 wins all but 1 of the last 17 years.

San Jose by comparison has had 13 seasons with 4 or more wins in the last 26 years, 3 of those years being exactly 4. They have had frequent 1 and 2 win seasons and only 3 winning seasons.

Eastern Michigan has had 11 seasons with 4 or more wins in those 26 years (5 of those with 4 wins). They also have had 3 winning seasons.

Someone above mentioned ULM's SEC victories. There may have been some, but I can't think of any San Jose or EMU wins over major football programs.

San Jose St beat Arkansas in Fayetteville last season.

(06-07-2020 03:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  ULM has had at least 4 wins in 19 of their 26 years since they moved up. They had 2 and 3 wins in their first two years. They had a bad spell from 2000-2003 with 7 wins in 4 years. In 2015 they had 2 wins. So they have had at least 4 wins all but 1 of the last 17 years.

San Jose by comparison has had 13 seasons with 4 or more wins in the last 26 years, 3 of those years being exactly 4. They have had frequent 1 and 2 win seasons and only 3 winning seasons.

Eastern Michigan has had 11 seasons with 4 or more wins in those 26 years (5 of those with 4 wins). They also have had 3 winning seasons.

Someone above mentioned ULM's SEC victories. There may have been some, but I can't think of any San Jose or EMU wins over major football programs.

I will not argue that SJSU has been mostly competitive over the last few decades but they beat Arkansas on the road just last season. In 2012 they finished 11-2 and were ranked 21st in the final AP poll. They have wins over PAC 12 teams Stanford, Cal, ASU, WSU, UO, and OSU. They have beat B12 teams Baylor, KSU, and TTU. They have beaten Illinois and Minnesota. Some of these wins were some time ago, but there was a time when the Spartans were competitive back in their PCAA days. They do have a dismal budget (by MWC standards) and poor fan support. Their administration appears generally indifferent to their fate and they have considerable competition in the region. I wish them well.

(06-07-2020 03:56 PM)C00G Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 03:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  ULM has had at least 4 wins in 19 of their 26 years since they moved up. They had 2 and 3 wins in their first two years. They had a bad spell from 2000-2003 with 7 wins in 4 years. In 2015 they had 2 wins. So they have had at least 4 wins all but 1 of the last 17 years.

San Jose by comparison has had 13 seasons with 4 or more wins in the last 26 years, 3 of those years being exactly 4. They have had frequent 1 and 2 win seasons and only 3 winning seasons.

Eastern Michigan has had 11 seasons with 4 or more wins in those 26 years (5 of those with 4 wins). They also have had 3 winning seasons.

Someone above mentioned ULM's SEC victories. There may have been some, but I can't think of any San Jose or EMU wins over major football programs.

San Jose St beat Arkansas in Fayetteville last season.

And EMU’s won 3 straight over B1G teams in 3 seasons.

(06-07-2020 03:48 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 02:55 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 01:56 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  

(06-07-2020 01:49 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  I would argue that FAU and FIU shouldn't be in CUSA. They should be at best independents. UTEP and UTSA should be in the MWC, not CUSA. Marshall should be in the MAC. ODU should be an independent in football and in the A-10 for all of their other sports.

“At best independents” ummm FAU has won CUSA twice in the past 3 years.

Never said they weren't good enough to be in CUSA. They are not a good geographical fit.

They have some of the strongest football programs in CUSA, they aren’t going anywhere.

The title of this thread is "Teams that really shouldn't be in the conference they're in." You are getting off track and going in some other direction. You millennials tend to do this at times. Who said anything about them going anywhere? Who said they were not good programs? Whether are not they are a good program isn't the point. They are still a bad geographical fit for CUSA. You do know the meaning of geographical right? Hint, it has nothing to do with how good something or someone is.

(06-07-2020 12:38 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Saint Louis in the A10. If you think WVU in the Big XII is bad geographically, SLU in the A10 deserves to be in the same conversation. Culturally, they kinda fit, but geographically, it's as bad as WVU in the Big XII.

Eh, as long as the A-10 generally remains a multi-bid conference I'd exempt Saint Louis from this discussion just due to a lack of viable alternatives. Them and Dayton are kind of in the same boat where most of the best basketball schools in the Midwest got vacuumed up by the Big East and they're still in the on-deck circle.