(07-01-2020 01:41 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I'm sure that the SEC, the Big Ten, the Big 12, the ACC, and the PAC 12 would love it if their more hoops-focused teams would only be in their conferences for basketball and rest of the Olympic sports, but have their football teams in another conference entirely different. Like say having Cincy as a football only member of the Big Ten, and IU Hoosier football in the American conference. The Big Ten would still have the Hoosiers for basketball and all other sports, while the Bearcats would still be in the American for basketball and all other sports.

I would bet that this is completely untrue, and that the B1G is glad to have Indiana in football and all other sports and not Cincy.

(07-01-2020 01:41 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I'm sure that the SEC, the Big Ten, the Big 12, the ACC, and the PAC 12 would love it if their more hoops-focused teams would only be in their conferences for basketball and rest of the Olympic sports, but have their football teams in another conference entirely different. Like say having Cincy as a football only member of the Big Ten, and IU Hoosier football in the American conference. The Big Ten would still have the Hoosiers for basketball and all other sports, while the Bearcats would still be in the American for basketball and all other sports.

No the B10 would not want UC in the conference for FB. It’s not entirely on OSU either, the issue is the rest of the conference relies heavily on Ohio for recruiting. If you put UC in the conference the second tier schools would take a recruiting hit (UC is already competing and often bearing several B10 schools for recruits).

As a long-time Indiana and Vanderbilt fan, I can say that — from what I've heard from many folks who know this stuff — the Big Ten and the SEC, respectively, are pleased to have the Hoosier and Commodore programs (athletics and academics both) as members.

Again, we have to look beyond football. There are so many elements (including intangible considerations) that allow for a university to "make sense" for its current conference home. Something as seemingly minor as a school's location — either in relation to the locales of its league brethren or the town/city specifically in which it is located — is hugely important.

Vanderbilt does not directly help the SEC in football. But it gives many SEC fan bases a chance to travel to a city they enjoy (Nashville) for a weekend visit.

Beyond football (and I'm biased, true), VU brings significant positives to the SEC table. AAU membership alone counts for something. I could list other elements but don't want to bore you folks.

Look at it this way - Everyone likes playing Vanderbilt. Why would schools voluntarily give up what is historically an easy win and also the best destination city in the conference?

(07-01-2020 08:41 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As a long-time Indiana and Vanderbilt fan, I can say that — from what I've heard from many folks who know this stuff — the Big Ten and the SEC, respectively, are pleased to have the Hoosier and Commodore programs (athletics and academics both) as members.

Again, we have to look beyond football.

Yes, the notion that the B1G would like to trade Indy for Cincy is ludicrous. Indiana is a state flagship right in the middle of B1G country. The whole idea is silly.

(07-01-2020 09:10 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 08:41 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As a long-time Indiana and Vanderbilt fan, I can say that — from what I've heard from many folks who know this stuff — the Big Ten and the SEC, respectively, are pleased to have the Hoosier and Commodore programs (athletics and academics both) as members.

Again, we have to look beyond football.

Yes, the notion that the B1G would like to trade Indy for Cincy is ludicrous. Indiana is a state flagship right in the middle of B1G country. The whole idea is silly.

Agree fully. And on top of that: the Big Ten offers no urban universities with a UC model. It would be odd for the two entities to "marry."

(07-01-2020 09:05 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  Look at it this way - Everyone likes playing Vanderbilt. Why would schools voluntarily give up what is historically an easy win and also the best destination city in the conference?

Agree. I actually like having the SEC fans visit us here in Nashville. They spend a lot of money in our city. Some are tacky, bombastic drunks. But most are fine.

I thought it would be interesting to look at deadweight as not having won a major conference football title in X years (ie Big East counts). These are schools who have not won in over 25 years and the SEC lead in deadweight with half the conference.

North Carolina St.
North Carolina
Duke

Texas Tech
Iowa St.
Kansas

Utah
Arizona

Vanderbilt
South Carolina
Arkansas
Kentucky
Ole Miss
Mississippi St.
Missouri

Minnesota
Indiana

If you go 15 years (my first cut), its interesting to see some of the names added to the list:

Miami
Boston College
Virginia

Oregon St.
Washington St.
UCLA
Colorado

Tennessee
Texas A&M

Nebraska
Maryland
Iowa
Michigan
Illinois
Purdue
Northwestern

This is the date of the last major conference title in football:

Vanderbilt never
Utah never *(ranked #2 with MWC 2008)
Iowa St. 1912
Mississippi St. 1941
Ole Miss 1963
Minnesota 1967
Indiana 1967
Kansas 1968
South Carolina 1969
Missouri 1969
Kentucky 1976
North Carolina St. 1979
North Carolina 1980
Duke 1989
Arkansas 1989
Arizona 1993
Texas Tech 1994

(07-01-2020 09:38 AM)bullet Wrote:  If you go 15 years (my first cut), its interesting to see some of the names added to the list:

Miami
Boston College
Virginia

Oregon St.
Washington St.
UCLA
Colorado

Tennessee
Texas A&M

Nebraska
Maryland
Iowa
Michigan
Illinois
Purdue
Northwestern

It's really, really hard to win the SEC unfortunately. There are just so many teams that recruit and compete at an elite level that it's exceptionally difficult for a middling or worse team to have an occasional breakthrough win

(06-30-2020 09:41 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 07:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 12:47 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  How would you move the P5 dead weight to a reasonable G5 conference? I'd move WSU and OSU to the MWC
ISU and Northwestern to the MAC
can't decide any more, mostly because they don't have G5 homes readily available

Maybe the Big Ten doesn't consider Northwestern to be dead weight.
Iowa State has the third or 4th best football attendance in the Big 12, very competitive basketball and colorful uniforms....their dead weight?

This debate about who is dead weight and who is not is interesting. Iowa State has great attendance in both football and basketball. But is that a standard for dead weight? Iowa State has not won a conference championship in football since 1912. That seems like a long time. Oregon State was co-conference champions in the Pac-12 in 2000. They crushed Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl and ended up the No. 4 ranked team in the nation. Yet they are considered "dead weight." Iowa State basketball is good, but they lost to Oregon State this past season. In the past 12 years, Iowa State has had 7 players drafted into the NFL. Oregon State over the past 12 years has had 27 players drafted into the NFL. Oregon State, as we know, has one of the top college baseball programs in the nation.

Indiana and Minnesota have not won a conference championship in football since 1967, when they were co-champions of the Big Ten. Northwestern won three Big Ten conference championships in football (1995,1996,2000). Indiana and Minnesota have better basketball programs than Northwestern. But they have not won a Big Ten Championship recently and Northwestern has. So who is the dead weight in the Big 10?

especially Iowa St

A funny stat about Indiana football... the Hoosiers are 75-12 against Ohio State, and half of those wins were before WWII. I am guessing there are a lot of other instances of in-conference imbalance (Oklahoma-Kansas, etc), but I am guessing there are a lot of programs out there would could have won more than 12 games in 87 tries in conference against a team.

(07-01-2020 09:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  This is the date of the last major conference title in football:

Vanderbilt never
Utah never *(ranked #2 with MWC 2008)
Iowa St. 1912
Mississippi St. 1941
Ole Miss 1963
Minnesota 1967
Indiana 1967
Kansas 1968
South Carolina 1969
Missouri 1969
Kentucky 1976
North Carolina St. 1979
North Carolina 1980
Duke 1989
Arkansas 1989
Arizona 1993
Texas Tech 1994

As a long-time Vandy fan, I shall have made a T-shirt that offers an anchor and the words: The Nation's Only True 'Never'

(07-01-2020 06:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 10:03 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Wake Forest and Boston College would probably not get invited into the ACC again if there was a do-over.

But in the real world, there ain't gonna be a do-over.

Based on the premise of this thread (not on real life), I'd say Wake Forest would end up in either the AAC (w/ ECU) or the Sun Belt (w/ App State), while Duke would end up in the Big East (w/ UConn). Boston College might be relegated as well - probably to the AAC (to replace UConn). I'm thinking Syracuse might be safe(?).

These kind of comments completely blow my mind. Boston College has been in the ACC for 15 years. For FB - in those 15 years, they have made it to 12 bowl games. So only 3 seasons with losing RS records. I won't dispute that their performance in recent years under SA had been mediocre (that's about to change!). But the premise of this post was about "dead weights". In the only sport that really matters, BC has hardly been a "dead weight".

I think your premise is absurd.

I do chuckle at the UVA fan above who voiced similar sentiments (talking about "value"). Over the same last 15-year period, the Cavaliers have only made 6 bowls! Dead weight indeed!

(BTW, SU's record in their 7 years in the ACC - only 2 winning seasons/bowl years. Yet, according to you, they "might be safe" and BC is deadweight? Really?)

(07-01-2020 11:11 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 09:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  This is the date of the last major conference title in football:

Vanderbilt never
Utah never *(ranked #2 with MWC 2008)
Iowa St. 1912
Mississippi St. 1941
Ole Miss 1963
Minnesota 1967
Indiana 1967
Kansas 1968
South Carolina 1969
Missouri 1969
Kentucky 1976
North Carolina St. 1979
North Carolina 1980
Duke 1989
Arkansas 1989
Arizona 1993
Texas Tech 1994

As a long-time Vandy fan, I shall have made a T-shirt that offers an anchor and the words: The Nation's Only True 'Never'

Well Emory University actually does have a Tshirt that says they have never lost a football game.

(07-01-2020 11:51 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 06:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 10:03 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Wake Forest and Boston College would probably not get invited into the ACC again if there was a do-over.

But in the real world, there ain't gonna be a do-over.

Based on the premise of this thread (not on real life), I'd say Wake Forest would end up in either the AAC (w/ ECU) or the Sun Belt (w/ App State), while Duke would end up in the Big East (w/ UConn). Boston College might be relegated as well - probably to the AAC (to replace UConn). I'm thinking Syracuse might be safe(?).

These kind of comments completely blow my mind. Boston College has been in the ACC for 15 years. For FB - in those 15 years, they have made it to 12 bowl games. So only 3 seasons with losing RS records. I won't dispute that their performance in recent years under SA had been mediocre (that's about to change!). But the premise of this post was about "dead weights". In the only sport that really matters, BC has hardly been a "dead weight".

I think your premise is absurd.

I do chuckle at the UVA fan above who voiced similar sentiments (talking about "value"). Over the same last 15-year period, the Cavaliers have only made 6 bowls! Dead weight indeed!

(BTW, SU's record in their 7 years in the ACC - only 2 winning seasons/bowl years. Yet, according to you, they "might be safe" and BC is deadweight? Really?)

BC gets the treatment the rest of the Big 12 besides Texas and OU get. BC hasn't won the ACC, but they've been to the title game twice. They are one of only 5 teams in the ACC who has done that, Clemson (7), Virginia Tech (6), FSU (5) and Georgia Tech (4) are the only others.

(07-01-2020 12:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 11:51 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 06:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 10:03 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Wake Forest and Boston College would probably not get invited into the ACC again if there was a do-over.

But in the real world, there ain't gonna be a do-over.

Based on the premise of this thread (not on real life), I'd say Wake Forest would end up in either the AAC (w/ ECU) or the Sun Belt (w/ App State), while Duke would end up in the Big East (w/ UConn). Boston College might be relegated as well - probably to the AAC (to replace UConn). I'm thinking Syracuse might be safe(?).

These kind of comments completely blow my mind. Boston College has been in the ACC for 15 years. For FB - in those 15 years, they have made it to 12 bowl games. So only 3 seasons with losing RS records. I won't dispute that their performance in recent years under SA had been mediocre (that's about to change!). But the premise of this post was about "dead weights". In the only sport that really matters, BC has hardly been a "dead weight".

I think your premise is absurd.

I do chuckle at the UVA fan above who voiced similar sentiments (talking about "value"). Over the same last 15-year period, the Cavaliers have only made 6 bowls! Dead weight indeed!

(BTW, SU's record in their 7 years in the ACC - only 2 winning seasons/bowl years. Yet, according to you, they "might be safe" and BC is deadweight? Really?)

BC gets the treatment the rest of the Big 12 besides Texas and OU get. BC hasn't won the ACC, but they've been to the title game twice. They are one of only 5 teams in the ACC who has done that, Clemson (7), Virginia Tech (6), FSU (5) and Georgia Tech (4) are the only others.

Thanks for recognizing this, bullet. I think you are correct.

Again, it just blows my mind. Since joining the ACC, BC has been a solid addition. The record speaks for itself - 12 bowl seasons out of 15 in the ACC. And I might add BC has the toughest ACC schedule year-in and year-out. Every year they play Clemson, FSU, and VT.

It also doesn't hurt that they play in the largest DMA in the ACC (#9 Nationally).

(07-01-2020 12:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 11:11 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 09:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  This is the date of the last major conference title in football:

Vanderbilt never
Utah never *(ranked #2 with MWC 2008)
Iowa St. 1912
Mississippi St. 1941
Ole Miss 1963
Minnesota 1967
Indiana 1967
Kansas 1968
South Carolina 1969
Missouri 1969
Kentucky 1976
North Carolina St. 1979
North Carolina 1980
Duke 1989
Arkansas 1989
Arizona 1993
Texas Tech 1994

As a long-time Vandy fan, I shall have made a T-shirt that offers an anchor and the words: The Nation's Only True 'Never'

Well Emory University actually does have a Tshirt that says they have never lost a football game.

I didn't know but seeing now. Genius. I love it.

(07-01-2020 12:55 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 12:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 11:51 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(07-01-2020 06:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-30-2020 10:03 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Wake Forest and Boston College would probably not get invited into the ACC again if there was a do-over.

But in the real world, there ain't gonna be a do-over.

Based on the premise of this thread (not on real life), I'd say Wake Forest would end up in either the AAC (w/ ECU) or the Sun Belt (w/ App State), while Duke would end up in the Big East (w/ UConn). Boston College might be relegated as well - probably to the AAC (to replace UConn). I'm thinking Syracuse might be safe(?).

These kind of comments completely blow my mind. Boston College has been in the ACC for 15 years. For FB - in those 15 years, they have made it to 12 bowl games. So only 3 seasons with losing RS records. I won't dispute that their performance in recent years under SA had been mediocre (that's about to change!). But the premise of this post was about "dead weights". In the only sport that really matters, BC has hardly been a "dead weight".

I think your premise is absurd.

I do chuckle at the UVA fan above who voiced similar sentiments (talking about "value"). Over the same last 15-year period, the Cavaliers have only made 6 bowls! Dead weight indeed!

(BTW, SU's record in their 7 years in the ACC - only 2 winning seasons/bowl years. Yet, according to you, they "might be safe" and BC is deadweight? Really?)

BC gets the treatment the rest of the Big 12 besides Texas and OU get. BC hasn't won the ACC, but they've been to the title game twice. They are one of only 5 teams in the ACC who has done that, Clemson (7), Virginia Tech (6), FSU (5) and Georgia Tech (4) are the only others.

Thanks for recognizing this, bullet. I think you are correct.

Again, it just blows my mind. Since joining the ACC, BC has been a solid addition. The record speaks for itself - 12 bowl seasons out of 15 in the ACC. And I might add BC has the toughest ACC schedule year-in and year-out. Every year they play Clemson, FSU, and VT.

It also doesn't hurt that they play in the largest DMA in the ACC (#9 Nationally).

BC is a fine member of the ACC. I like having them in the league.