(07-06-2020 10:50 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: (Lee's) view of being Virginian above and beyond being American is what led him to be in charge of the Confederate forces.
That doesn't square with the oath he took upon commissioning in 1829:
I, Robert Edward Lee, appointed a lieutenant in the Army of the United States, do solemnly swear, or affirm, that I will bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and that I will serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever, and observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the rules and articles for the government of the Armies of the United States.
The bolded segments don't have an asterisk; there is no exception for loyalty to a state above the nation. Lee's post-facto rationalization is irrelevant. Winning battles (while losing the war) and behaving in a courtly manner does not obviate this basic truth: Lee was an oathbreaker and a traitor by definition, a man without honor.
Look, oaths are hard. They're supposed to be hard. If you can't abide by their terms, then don't raise your hand and swear to them.
The justification was that the United States had exceeded it's authority by violating state sovereignty, thus invalidating the Constitution. Keep in mind, Virginia was one of the last states to join the CSA and only did so after Ft. Sumter was shelled.
That's a stretch that even Roger Taney didn't attempt: the Supreme Court, the only body capable of sch a statement, never made it. Lee was never released from his oath.
That he broke his oath after the traitors opened fire on United States forces doesn't mitigate the act; if anything it makes it worse. He joined what was already an armed rebellion.
Going by Confederate legal standards, George Pickett ordered the hanging of North Carolina boys in New Bern because they had enrolled in Union service and therefore were traitors to North Carolina. These were not commissioned officers who broke an oath. By their own standards, the Confederate generals earned hanging (except Jackson, who, had he survived, had earned commitment to a lunatic asylum along with several barrels of lemons, for Americans are a generous people).
I agree with you that it is a stretch. But I really don’t see any other thought process that would allow Generals like Lee and others to justify their defection to the CSA. And you stated, states might have been more important to the masses, but many of these military men swore an oath the the nation.
Duh! Their state was no longer in the USA. They were defending their nation. The Confederacy was not trying to overthrow the US government. Simply leave.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2020 07:10 PM by bullet.)
This is a work of art like it or not, sorry for those who find it offensive, but the National Endowment for the Arts funds offensive art every year, Mapplethorpe ring a bell. Stone Mountain must be protected and preserved.
(07-06-2020 07:16 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote: This is a work of art like it or not, sorry for those who find it offensive, but the National Endowment for the Arts funds offensive art every year, Mapplethorpe ring a bell. Stone Mountain must be protected and preserved.
That is a great point of very as well. As far as Bas relief sculptures go, you’d be hard pressed to find a better one.
Nothing scarier than a fat tub of goo who buys clothes a size too small carrying a .22 LR that because of the cheap ass drum magazine he bought for it because it looks cool is now jammed likely due to a failure to feed, rendering the rifle non-functional. At least he's wearing black so it will be harder to see the urine he'd release when there's a manic yell around him and the trees start shooting his way because there's no way in hell he's going to be able to run.
Tony Montana has put on a few pounds as well.
And where are his shoes? Those two are going to get themselves killed.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2020 07:41 PM by cb4029.)
Nothing scarier than a fat tub of goo who buys clothes a size too small carrying a .22 LR that because of the cheap ass drum magazine he bought for it because it looks cool is now jammed likely due to a failure to feed, rendering the rifle non-functional. At least he's wearing black so it will be harder to see the urine he'd release when there's a manic yell around him and the trees start shooting his way because there's no way in hell he's going to be able to run.
The black beret is kinda cute. If a handful of firecrackers went off they'd decimate each other.
Nothing scarier than a fat tub of goo who buys clothes a size too small carrying a .22 LR that because of the cheap ass drum magazine he bought for it because it looks cool is now jammed likely due to a failure to feed, rendering the rifle non-functional. At least he's wearing black so it will be harder to see the urine he'd release when there's a manic yell around him and the trees start shooting his way because there's no way in hell he's going to be able to run.
Tony Montana has put on a few pounds as well.
And where are his shoes? Those two are going to get themselves killed.
At least suburban commando has a firearm that will actually function. Black Rambo is holding a very expensive club. He should have saved the money he wasted on that POS drum magazine and put it towards clothes that fit.
Nothing scarier than a fat tub of goo who buys clothes a size too small carrying a .22 LR that because of the cheap ass drum magazine he bought for it because it looks cool is now jammed likely due to a failure to feed, rendering the rifle non-functional. At least he's wearing black so it will be harder to see the urine he'd release when there's a manic yell around him and the trees start shooting his way because there's no way in hell he's going to be able to run.
Tony Montana has put on a few pounds as well.
And where are his shoes? Those two are going to get themselves killed.
At least suburban commando has a firearm that will actually function. Black Rambo is holding a very expensive club. He should have saved the money he wasted on that POS drum magazine and put it towards clothes that fit.
Her: “Honey, they’re through the gate and are outside our house!”
Him: “Be right there. I’m going upstairs to find some shoes.”
(07-06-2020 01:35 PM)olliebaba Wrote: If you buy a slave and then have them work off the purchase price and then set them free ... are you really a slave master? History could still correctly regard you as a slave owner for doing so ... but are the negative connotations that come with that appropriate for Stonewall? Not from what I've seen and read.
Paying off your servitude is no different than what White people who signed up to come to the US and working for a certain time to pay off their trip is like what this guy did. He just wanted his money back and it's a fair deal.
If you hire a landscaper he'll do the work because he knows he'll get paid. Isn't buying a slave and then allowing him to pay off what the buyer paid with his sweat the same thing.
[/quote]
Whaaaa? The landscaper can go home at night and decide he's not gonna come back tomorrow because his kid got sick or his wife wanted to jump his bones.
If you buy people and they are your slave, you are a slave master. If you buy some chickens, aren't you a keeper of chickens?
Quote:Would you say I have a plethora of piñatas?
A what?
A plethora.
Oh yes, you have a plethora.
Hefe, what is a plethora?
Why, El Guapo?
Well, you told me I have a plethora. And I just would like to know if you know what a plethora is. I would not like to think that a person would tell someone he has a plethora, and then find out that that person has *no idea* what it means to have a plethora.
Forgive me, El Guapo. I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education. But could it be that once again, you are angry at something else, and are looking to take it out on me?
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2020 10:57 PM by king king.)
Nothing scarier than a fat tub of goo who buys clothes a size too small carrying a .22 LR that because of the cheap ass drum magazine he bought for it because it looks cool is now jammed likely due to a failure to feed, rendering the rifle non-functional. At least he's wearing black so it will be harder to see the urine he'd release when there's a manic yell around him and the trees start shooting his way because there's no way in hell he's going to be able to run.
Nothing scarier than a fat tub of goo who buys clothes a size too small carrying a .22 LR that because of the cheap ass drum magazine he bought for it because it looks cool is now jammed likely due to a failure to feed, rendering the rifle non-functional. At least he's wearing black so it will be harder to see the urine he'd release when there's a manic yell around him and the trees start shooting his way because there's no way in hell he's going to be able to run.
Nothing scarier than a fat tub of goo who buys clothes a size too small carrying a .22 LR that because of the cheap ass drum magazine he bought for it because it looks cool is now jammed likely due to a failure to feed, rendering the rifle non-functional. At least he's wearing black so it will be harder to see the urine he'd release when there's a manic yell around him and the trees start shooting his way because there's no way in hell he's going to be able to run.