(08-07-2020 06:31 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(08-06-2020 11:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  finding a new player is easy.

Sure, and people will pay to watch sub-par performance, because players are a dime a dozen. It’s that talent, however...

I just wish people would stop equating the deal as the kids getting a free education. This assumes the players have the same luxuries someone has on campus with academic scholarships, and they don’t. Same institutional commitment, and they don’t. Same ability to access all courses and services, which they don’t/can’t.

It used to be like that, and is at other non-FBS levels. It used to be that recruitment meant commitment, too, so that pact between student athlete and program had meaning to it. D1 FBS is practically a factory now.

It also used to be that schools had more awareness of the risk in taking student athletes. That schools had higher standards and could walk away from those they sensed would not succeed at the institution, even with other perks and safety nets. Now, schools let coaches just gobble talent and let their programs do the enforcement of “fit.” And it almost feels like the school/program leverages the high cost as control mechanism for those who come from absolute poverty. And the schools don’t own that part of itself.

People will watch subpar talent at the college level because they already do. College is a joke compared to the NFL. Heck, of the 13-14K FBS players, only 256 will even be worth a draft pick to an NFL team. Thats between 1 and 2 percent of the players--the rest are not NFL quality. College football is about the name on the FRONT of the jersey---not the name on the back.

(08-07-2020 10:26 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 06:31 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(08-06-2020 11:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  finding a new player is easy.

Sure, and people will pay to watch sub-par performance, because players are a dime a dozen. It’s that talent, however...

I just wish people would stop equating the deal as the kids getting a free education. This assumes the players have the same luxuries someone has on campus with academic scholarships, and they don’t. Same institutional commitment, and they don’t. Same ability to access all courses and services, which they don’t/can’t.

It used to be like that, and is at other non-FBS levels. It used to be that recruitment meant commitment, too, so that pact between student athlete and program had meaning to it. D1 FBS is practically a factory now.

It also used to be that schools had more awareness of the risk in taking student athletes. That schools had higher standards and could walk away from those they sensed would not succeed at the institution, even with other perks and safety nets. Now, schools let coaches just gobble talent and let their programs do the enforcement of “fit.” And it almost feels like the school/program leverages the high cost as control mechanism for those who come from absolute poverty. And the schools don’t own that part of itself.

What are you talking about? Are you travelling backwards in time?

Schools would take 100 freshmen and drop most of them. That's why we have scholarship limits. Dexter Manley? Literal illiterates were recruited. Players have it much better than they did in the past. And the tutoring resources are phenomenal. Coordinators, counselors, tutors by course, note takers,...

I would say that players had it best 20-25 years ago, when you had the limits imposed, still had some of these exclusive resources, had the money game running underneath before exposure (payments), and you didn’t have the insanity of operations today where it’s win at all costs year after year. The scope and reach for television money wasn’t as present as it is today. Cable and nationalization blew it all to heck on campus.

The resources today are unmatched, but I don’t envy the players today. I did when I was an undergrad.

(08-07-2020 07:34 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 06:51 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 06:31 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(08-06-2020 11:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  finding a new player is easy.

Sure, and people will pay to watch sub-par performance, because players are a dime a dozen. It’s that talent, however...

I just wish people would stop equating the deal as the kids getting a free education. This assumes the players have the same luxuries someone has on campus with academic scholarships, and they don’t. Same institutional commitment, and they don’t. Same ability to access all courses and services, which they don’t/can’t.

It used to be like that, and is at other non-FBS levels. It used to be that recruitment meant commitment, too, so that pact between student athlete and program had meaning to it. D1 FBS is practically a factory now.

It also used to be that schools had more awareness of the risk in taking student athletes. That schools had higher standards and could walk away from those they sensed would not succeed at the institution, even with other perks and safety nets. Now, schools let coaches just gobble talent and let their programs do the enforcement of “fit.” And it almost feels like the school/program leverages the high cost as control mechanism for those who come from absolute poverty. And the schools don’t own that part of itself.

ummm....the kids on academic scholarships all have access to this sort of luxury?

https://www.businessinsider.com/louisian...ity-2019-8

their own pool...a movie theater....better food....entertainment center....their own studying center.


yep. this isn't a luxury at all. EVERYONE at LSU gets this.

So, their spot is safe from signing day? If on an academic scholarship, are you applying for your spot at the school every semester of every year, even if you make the academic grades just because the next class comes along?

I’m well aware of the study centers. I mean, with the regimine these guys now have to put in, classes are delievered in a very unique way. Regular students don’t necessarily have this kind of stuff, but then, they’re actually students?

Students that have to work 30 hours a week to pay for their tuition, rent, utilities, books, parking and food? Those students?

(08-07-2020 12:30 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 07:34 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 06:51 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(08-07-2020 06:31 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(08-06-2020 11:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  finding a new player is easy.

Sure, and people will pay to watch sub-par performance, because players are a dime a dozen. It’s that talent, however...

I just wish people would stop equating the deal as the kids getting a free education. This assumes the players have the same luxuries someone has on campus with academic scholarships, and they don’t. Same institutional commitment, and they don’t. Same ability to access all courses and services, which they don’t/can’t.

It used to be like that, and is at other non-FBS levels. It used to be that recruitment meant commitment, too, so that pact between student athlete and program had meaning to it. D1 FBS is practically a factory now.

It also used to be that schools had more awareness of the risk in taking student athletes. That schools had higher standards and could walk away from those they sensed would not succeed at the institution, even with other perks and safety nets. Now, schools let coaches just gobble talent and let their programs do the enforcement of “fit.” And it almost feels like the school/program leverages the high cost as control mechanism for those who come from absolute poverty. And the schools don’t own that part of itself.

ummm....the kids on academic scholarships all have access to this sort of luxury?

https://www.businessinsider.com/louisian...ity-2019-8

their own pool...a movie theater....better food....entertainment center....their own studying center.


yep. this isn't a luxury at all. EVERYONE at LSU gets this.

So, their spot is safe from signing day? If on an academic scholarship, are you applying for your spot at the school every semester of every year, even if you make the academic grades just because the next class comes along?

I’m well aware of the study centers. I mean, with the regimine these guys now have to put in, classes are delievered in a very unique way. Regular students don’t necessarily have this kind of stuff, but then, they’re actually students?

Students that have to work 30 hours a week to pay for their tuition, rent, utilities, books, parking and food? Those students?

Exactly---and lets not forget the students that have to work 10 to 20 years to pay off their student debt...

Look---bottom line, its an amateur league. Everyone knows its scholarship only when they sign---yet there is waiting line at the door. If there are tons of other US citizens willing to take that opportunity, then the marketplace is saying its not an unreasonable deal. Its only a loser for the 256 kids that could make an NFL roster....and lets not forget than any kid can quit and go to the NFL as soon as the NFL makes it clear they think he is draftable.

The biggest stink bomb FBS could deliver is to simply drop all compensation including scholarships and become a true totally amateur "walk ons only" league. At that point, there would be no viable case for the players. For the schools, that approach makes 100 times more economic sense than entering into a employer/employee relationship with the players that gobbles up 50% of the revenue (especially considering we are talking about a "business" that is drowning in red ink even when its keeping 100% of the revenue). It makes no sense for administrators to keep covering the athletic department red ink when paying players half the revenue suddenly doubles or triples (or more) the losses overnight. Cutting ALL scholarships basically slices a massive cost from the budget and solves most everyones Title-9 athletics related issues in a single bold stroke.

That would save the character of the college game, but the current and future players would pay a massive price. Hopefully someone with some common sense can get all these parties together and come to reasonable agreement. The problem is at this point, the lawyers only make money if they win a big judgement---so they could care less about the game traditions and history----and they have zero incentive to come to a reasonable common sense agreement that is best for everyone.

AttackCoog is right. If the players are going to gripe and threaten not to play all the schools have to do is opt for the Ivy League model.

The athletic scholarship has been a ticket to an education for many a poor and underprivileged kid. These selfish twerps should not be jeopardize their existence for those who come after them.

Fans will still come to see their favorite school play.

AAC players are organizing as well, it seems:

They are seeking, among other things, "hazard pay" and 20% of AAC revenues.


https://www.si.com/college/2020/08/08/aa...ip-revenue

Something I hope that comes from this is the removal of athletic scholarships. I think that universities should have stopped doing this a long time ago.

If someone does well in school and does well in Sports get him an academic scholarship. And hold him to the same standards you hold every other student too. I would be totally okay with 5 Star recruits going to a NFL D-League rather than going to a college they never should have known to to begin with.

(08-04-2020 07:03 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-03-2020 09:28 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(08-03-2020 08:37 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  While I know this board trends very conservative, I'm still somewhat surprised that the general opinion here seems to be "f*ck the students; just shut up and play football."

For anyone who had to pay their way through college, a free full ride sounds like a hell of a deal. The same goes for those who grew up poor. A college education from a great school can be a pathway to a lifetime of financial security and stability and yet for these ungrateful little turds that’s not enough. It’s like chasing after a dead great aunt’s cash but tossing the Renoir painting above her couch in the dumpster.

For those of us who played sports in high school (maybe there are some here who played collegiately ?) we played because we loved the game. There was no expectation of quid pro quo or compensation. The thought that kids fortunate enough to play football at the level are crying oppression seems insulting to the fans who support them.

I grew up pretty poor. My Dad, grandfather, uncles, cousins were all coal miners.

I had to work my way first through undergrad and then law school.

The only resource or cash I had when I began law school was a $5,000 Guaranteed Student Loan. I went to LSU Law School from Pennsylvania because it had cheap law school tuition in 1983 due to the oil boom. ($2,300/yr. for out of state, as I recall. That left about $2,700 for books, rent, food, etc...).

I could not afford the tuition at most law schools, so Baton Rouge it was, sight unseen.

I lived pretty rough that first year of law school (not allowed to work the first year) until I could get two jobs, one as a law clerk for a local lawyer and the other opening and locking the law school in the morning and night for minimum wage.

I had to extend my student loan payoff and took almost 20 years to pay that sucker off.

That said, I am usually going to favor the players over the school just like I usually favor the worker over management/ownership.

(I do not trend very conservative)

These kids are the ones playing for our entertainment, the ones getting ACL tears and other injuries for our amusement, the modern day gladiators.

Athletic Directors, coaches, assistant coaches, trainers, support staff, etc..all get paychecks from college football, some of them very large ones.

The only guys who don't get paid are the kids. Don't give me the scholarship bull****. End all athletic scholarships then try to field a team for nothing. See what you get.

Scholarships are not some wonderful, benevolent, charitable endowment bestowed by a charitable school. It is the bare requirement of the school to field a team.

Are some of the Pac 12 player demands from left field ? Sure, but in a time when millions are being shelled out by schools for stadiums, locker rooms, Jumbotrons, etc, I say to the players "get as much as you can, that opportunity will be gone in four years."

Put some of that money in the players' hands.

I walked onto our football team and I respectfully disagree.

There were at least 50 other people who attended the walk-on tryouts with me and they all would have liked the opportunity to play scholarship or not.

I'm black and growing up I played football for fun. It was just something that I in the other boys in my neighborhood did every day almost.

And again if we're going to be frank going into college I knew that I was never going to be able to compete with those five star recruits. I wasn't bad but I just wasn't as good as they were. But the thought of every girl at the school wanting to have sex with me, being able to travel to places I had never been to for free, and all of the academic resources that came from being on the team was a very appealing. As a college athlete I was literally first in line to register for classes, I had a private tutor, we had a private library with computers the nobody but athletes could use, I seriously had it made. I could do to anybody until the girl I was on the football team and she would instantly get the hots for me.

But there is one thing I was always clear about. I was a student first. And after graduate school I was in thousands of dollars of debt. So Cry Me a River these guys thinks it scholarship isn't pay. I would have happily have taken their scholarship.

(08-09-2020 08:18 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Something I hope that comes from this is the removal of athletic scholarships. I think that universities should have stopped doing this a long time ago.

If someone does well in school and does well in Sports get him an academic scholarship. And hold him to the same standards you hold every other student too. I would be totally okay with 5 Star recruits going to a NFL D-League rather than going to a college they never should have known to to begin with.

Totally agree. And some of this, maybe a lot of this, falls on the NFL for failing to develop this developmental or minor league level so that it weighs on the collegiate level to fill in certain gaps that, really, it shouldn't fill.

It's too business-like now, which these schools aren't. And it shows in the iniquity.

I buy season tickets and donate to my university because of the name on the front of the jersey not the name on the back.

(08-09-2020 08:54 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I buy season tickets and donate to my university because of the name in the front of the jersey not the name on the back.

Ditto.

I would be perfectly fine with an Ivy League model.
I would gladly trade playing ability on the field for players that truly wanted to be there because they wanted to compete and play the game.

(08-09-2020 09:07 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-09-2020 08:54 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I buy season tickets and donate to my university because of the name in the front of the jersey not the name on the back.

Ditto.

I would be perfectly fine with an Ivy League model.
I would gladly trade playing ability on the field for players that truly wanted to be there because they wanted to compete and play the game.

Not to mention watching players that truly care about the university and who aren’t trading away the CCG rings for cash and causing the program to run afoul of the NCAA.