Might be a lengthy post...

Fully acknowledging that this season has been highly disappointing, I have to say that I feel a lot better about the team than I did 3-4 weeks ago. Somewhere in there, I think we halfway turned the corner. I don't think it's a stretch to say that we're a better basketball team than our record indicates. I wouldn't have said that 3-4 weeks ago.

Here's what I'm basing my opinion on:

1) Last 6 games - we're 3-3 including some games against the best teams in the league. We beat Rice (15-5) on national TV, and they're tied for 1st right now. Of course, we just lost in double OT to the other team tied for first, Hawaii (15-4). Our other two losses during this stretch were on the road to two teams only 1 game back of first place (Nevada and Fresno), both by single digits. Even backing up one more game to our last seven, we're 3-4 with a 3 point loss to UTEP (15-4), who's also only one game out of first place.

Bottom line: lately, we are competing with the best teams in the conference and beating the rest. I guarantee you that if we were playing this well 6-8 weeks ago, we would've beat SMU and La Tech on the road.


2) Player development - the season begins and ends with the fact that of the 8 guys in our rotation, 6 of them are playing their first real season of D-I ball. I know Price and Collins are sophomores, but you can't count last year when they would come in for 3 minutes to give the seniors a rest. They didn't have to contribute last year, just hold their own for a few minutes. Now they have to contribute and win games.

But the new guys have stepped up in recent weeks:

Price - better and better every game. Becoming a force in the post. At times, the other team can't stop him. Putting up double figures in scoring almost every game. Next year he'll be our leading scorer, you watch. He's even starting to make a free throw or two. And hustles like hell on both ends of the floor.

Tiechmann - still tentative on offense, but coming out of his shell a little bit. Over the past 8-10 games he's been our best rebounder. Solid defensive player. Looks more confident every game. Remember, his first year of D-I ball. It took Tony Heard half a season to get going, too.

Collins - stopped settling for jump shots and started taking it to the rim. Totally changed his game. Now teams have to respect him off the dribble. Streaky from the 3 point line, but dangerous if he's hot. Getting better defensively and starting to crash the boards. Becoming a well-rounded player.

Kelley - accepted his role as 6th man and plays with a lot of energy. Lots of upside to his game. Now that he's familiar with the defensive assignments in the flow of the game, he's starting to make plays on defense. Not afraid to score either. Very solid player for a true freshman.

Ramsdell - quietly having a solid season as another true freshman (from small-ball Kingfisher). Has a knack for getting offensive rebounds and putbacks. When Tiechmann got in foul trouble Saturday, Ramsdell filled in and did a fine job. Not once did I say "oh boy, they're really picking on Ramsdell." Just executed his assignments and played hard for over 30 minutes. Just needs a little more bulk.

Cardwell - before he got hurt, he picked up his game a lot. Started blocking shots like a man possessed. And we have him for 3 more years.

Bottom line: This is a good young nucleus we can build around for the next 2-3 years. They're competing now... they'll start winning soon enough.


3) Not far off from predicted finish - I hate to bring this up, but we were picked to finish 5th in the league. Right now, we're one game back of 6th. That's where I predict we'll finish - the 6 seed in the WAC tourney. Down the strech we play San Jose and Boise on the road (already beat them once), and close with La Tech and SMU at home. I think we sweep those 4 games and wind up ahead of those teams with just another 1 or 2 more WAC wins along the way.

Bottom line: if UTEP weren't having a surprise season, we'd be playing for 5th instead of 6th... just as predicted. Don't you think there are plenty of coaches in the league who hope to avoid us the first round of the WAC tourney as a 6 seed?


Based on all of the above, I'm a lot more encouraged than I was a few weeks ago. I think the year will end up as two seasons in one, the 4-8 start and a better than .500 finish. It's been damn frustrating to watch :bang: but I honestly believe we'll win a lot more games next year.

Well said cane! Who knows luck what could happen with a little luck come WAC tourney time.

Ditto on the excellent post, Cane Man!

Oh, how I wish a bunch of posters on the "other" board could see what you have seen! You have, without saying those words, brought out the fact we are extraordinarily young and that it takes time to develop youth.

I agree with your assessment, except I think we have a good shot at beating all remaining opponents, not just the ones lower than us in the standings. I know that Wallace does not want to face us in the tourney.

At the risk of repeating myself :D , this might be a truly awesome March team!

excellent post...........i agree with all points......same with catbird's comments.....we could win out still....

You have no idea how refreshing it is to not have people bag a positive post.

Youse guys is awwww-right.

Cane Gang Wrote:Might be a lengthy post...

Fully acknowledging that this season has been highly disappointing, I have to say that I feel a lot better about the team than I did 3-4 weeks ago. Somewhere in there, I think we halfway turned the corner. I don't think it's a stretch to say that we're a better basketball team than our record indicates. I wouldn't have said that 3-4 weeks ago.

Here's what I'm basing my opinion on:

1) Last 6 games - we're 3-3 including some games against the best teams in the league. We beat Rice (15-5) on national TV, and they're tied for 1st right now. Of course, we just lost in double OT to the other team tied for first, Hawaii (15-4). Our other two losses during this stretch were on the road to two teams only 1 game back of first place (Nevada and Fresno), both by single digits. Even backing up one more game to our last seven, we're 3-4 with a 3 point loss to UTEP (15-4), who's also only one game out of first place.

Bottom line: lately, we are competing with the best teams in the conference and beating the rest. I guarantee you that if we were playing this well 6-8 weeks ago, we would've beat SMU and La Tech on the road.


2) Player development - the season begins and ends with the fact that of the 8 guys in our rotation, 6 of them are playing their first real season of D-I ball. I know Price and Collins are sophomores, but you can't count last year when they would come in for 3 minutes to give the seniors a rest. They didn't have to contribute last year, just hold their own for a few minutes. Now they have to contribute and win games.

But the new guys have stepped up in recent weeks:

Price - better and better every game. Becoming a force in the post. At times, the other team can't stop him. Putting up double figures in scoring almost every game. Next year he'll be our leading scorer, you watch. He's even starting to make a free throw or two. And hustles like hell on both ends of the floor.

Tiechmann - still tentative on offense, but coming out of his shell a little bit. Over the past 8-10 games he's been our best rebounder. Solid defensive player. Looks more confident every game. Remember, his first year of D-I ball. It took Tony Heard half a season to get going, too.

Collins - stopped settling for jump shots and started taking it to the rim. Totally changed his game. Now teams have to respect him off the dribble. Streaky from the 3 point line, but dangerous if he's hot. Getting better defensively and starting to crash the boards. Becoming a well-rounded player.

Kelley - accepted his role as 6th man and plays with a lot of energy. Lots of upside to his game. Now that he's familiar with the defensive assignments in the flow of the game, he's starting to make plays on defense. Not afraid to score either. Very solid player for a true freshman.

Ramsdell - quietly having a solid season as another true freshman (from small-ball Kingfisher). Has a knack for getting offensive rebounds and putbacks. When Tiechmann got in foul trouble Saturday, Ramsdell filled in and did a fine job. Not once did I say "oh boy, they're really picking on Ramsdell." Just executed his assignments and played hard for over 30 minutes. Just needs a little more bulk.

Cardwell - before he got hurt, he picked up his game a lot. Started blocking shots like a man possessed. And we have him for 3 more years.

Bottom line: This is a good young nucleus we can build around for the next 2-3 years. They're competing now... they'll start winning soon enough.


3) Not far off from predicted finish - I hate to bring this up, but we were picked to finish 5th in the league. Right now, we're one game back of 6th. That's where I predict we'll finish - the 6 seed in the WAC tourney. Down the strech we play San Jose and Boise on the road (already beat them once), and close with La Tech and SMU at home. I think we sweep those 4 games and wind up ahead of those teams with just another 1 or 2 more WAC wins along the way.

Bottom line: if UTEP weren't having a surprise season, we'd be playing for 5th instead of 6th... just as predicted. Don't you think there are plenty of coaches in the league who hope to avoid us the first round of the WAC tourney as a 6 seed?


Based on all of the above, I'm a lot more encouraged than I was a few weeks ago. I think the year will end up as two seasons in one, the 4-8 start and a better than .500 finish. It's been damn frustrating to watch :bang: but I honestly believe we'll win a lot more games next year.

I agree with most of what you said, but feel very strongly that we need some major JUCO help to help stabilize our youth for next season. If we miraculously win the tournament and make the NCAA, great! I'm all for it regardless of our record. There is no way the NIT would take us. I'm basically writing off this year to youth and inexperience (which was my take before the season even started) and hoping for the best next season. We really need some JUCO studs to fill the holes.

I agree with the juco help and the heck with a PG. You have to get the ball before the PG can do anything, so find the two best rebounding JUCO's in the country and guarantee them starting positions. Nothing good can happen until you have the ball period!!!!! :bang:

I'd like to think we'll be better at rebounding next year with Gonzalez being eligible to join Price, Cardwell, Tiechmann and Ramsdell. Lots of height there.

I agree Gonzales should help, not much could hurt, but this year we start a 6'9", 6'8"(it equals out all teams lie about height) and a powerful 6'6" small forward and we are one of the worse rebounding teams in D-1----in all of D-1, not just the 10 biggest conferences. Some how Tulsa's teams have to develop some meanness, not just get rebounds that come to them!! I saw some of these guys play in high school and they were studs with the attitude of a winner. They just need to get that back!!!!

I listened to most of the Nevada game on the radio and it sounded like a good game to the 1st half especially when Kelley hit the prayer shot. I was only able to watch the end of the game on TV. And it didn't look good! Nevada was coming down and without effort making baskets. Snyder and Hill Thomas scoring at will from anywhere it seemed. Once they took control, TU went to catch up mode and panicked, threw up shots without anyone in position for rebounds and it was one and out. With our rebounding problems how can this happen time and again??? No one is there for an offensive board. It's no wonder we don't get any!!! JP's intellegenic stare is setting in with the rest of the team. Not a good omen!
With the way Glenn has played the last 4-5 games he wilted when he knew Parker was a nonfactor being guarded by Snyder and his play was suffering, again. Without Glenns' tenacity this team loses its glue. He is as frustrated as I have seen him. Much is riding on his shoulders and he's let it get to the better of him. Who wouldn't?
I really hope this team can someway enjoy the rest of this waning season, playing the game they love with fun and passion. As long as there is a small chance to win the WAC Tourney there's the possibility of some hope. I have mine. Does the Team have theirs? Thats another Hope I have.
GO TU!!!

I think this is one of those "darkest before the dawn" things. Kind of like an addict having to hit absolute bottom before he can get well.

On the future note, Brett McDade is exactly the type of player who can become an outstanding point guard for TU, even if he's being converted from a two. He is extremely intelligent (close to a 4.0 student IIRC), and seems modest and unselfish. And, at 5'10" (my guess), he's not worried about his numbers taking him to "the league", so he's going to play for the team regardless.

On the court, he is sensationally quick and athletic. When he dunks, he does so without any apparent extra effort - it's as casual as a layup is for a 7-footer. I couldn't be more excited about a player if you paid me.

I think having a point guard with the right personality and mentality is going to do wonders for the entire team. Not taking anything away from Parker or Kelly (who are *natural* twos), I think having someone actually run the offense is going to help put people in position to be there for rebounds and put-backs. Post players can't do their jobs without effective *natural* guard play.

Agreed on all. I'm still amazed by that McDade dunk in the B/G game. I'd sure like to see a "windex man" get signed. I'd take a 10 rebound a game guy if he couldn's shoot a lick. But who knows, Cardwell may well develop into that guy by next year.

TUPikeAlum Wrote:I'd take a 10 rebound a game guy if he couldn's shoot a lick. But who knows, Cardwell may well develop into that guy by next year.

That's Gonzalez. Rebounding fiend... not much offense. I'm sure it blindsided Phillips when he was ruled ineligible before the season, because I'm sure he was counting on him to control the glass.

btw, I don't think he's the second coming or anything. I only keep bringing him up because it's painful to watch us give up so many offensive rebounds with a 6'10" widebody juco transfer sitting on the bench in street clothes...

I would like to think that Cardwell could be a heck of a rebounder. He looks like he could. I guess if you're away from basketball completely for a number of years, it's takes awhile to get back in a basketball frame of mind. Gonzales appears to be primarily a rebounder, YEAH-YEAH, but I wouldn't mind seeing Cardwell, Price and Gonzales go to MEAN school this off season!!!!!!

I have to admit I skimmed some of the posts in this thread, that attention deficit thing again, but I basically agree with most posts. I think this team has a lot of talent that just needs to learn to work together and keep their poise. I have been tremendously impressed with Kenneth Kelley as a true freshman and I think Price will be all C-USA before he's done. I'm really looking forward to the addition of McDade, Gonzales, and Belt next year as well as an extra year of the current guys playing together. I think we will be a force to deal with next year in the WAC and a title contender the next year in C-USA.

One place where I disagree with some of the posters is the need for another JUCO infusion. I think we should sign the best high school players we can and build for the future. If you start signing JUCO players each year, or two years in a row, you are mortgaging you future and putting all your chips on one throw of the dice. If that throw doesn't come up 7 then you are in for a long stretch of bad times. We have an excellent core of players that will get better, lets sign high school talent and build for the long run.

I think if everyone believed these exact same players plus Gonzo would turn into a rebounding machine next year, there wouldn't be any talk of a Juco. So I think what you are seeing is a certain amount of doubt in some people's mind this is going to turn into a rebounding machine without some infusion of new blood. Besides we have 3 schollies, one could surely go to one of the top 10 rebounders in Juco ball IF we could get one of them???? You are going to win very few game when you give up 20 offensive rebounds, no matter how good you're shooting!! Past behavior predicts future behavior-------with that in mind a rebounder couldn't hurt Tulsa!!!!!!!!!!!

Nevadanatural Wrote:One place where I disagree with some of the posters is the need for another JUCO infusion. I think we should sign the best high school players we can and build for the future. If you start signing JUCO players each year, or two years in a row, you are mortgaging you future and putting all your chips on one throw of the dice. If that throw doesn't come up 7 then you are in for a long stretch of bad times. We have an excellent core of players that will get better, lets sign high school talent and build for the long run.

Natural - great point on JUCO recruiting.