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12 team model being discussed
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ren.hoek Offline
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12 team model being discussed
06-08-2021 06:31 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #2
RE: 12 team model being discussed
This changes everything.
06-08-2021 08:48 AM
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bluesox Offline
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RE: 12 team model being discussed
12 team playoff model will make conference title games useless
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2021 10:24 AM by bluesox.)
06-08-2021 10:24 AM
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random asian guy Offline
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RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 10:24 AM)bluesox Wrote:  12 team playoff model will make conference title games useless

Yeah. It will definitely dilute the regular season and potentially conference title games.
06-08-2021 10:57 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 10:24 AM)bluesox Wrote:  12 team playoff model will make conference title games useless

I think it will make the CCG even more valuable; the winner of the CCGs in the P5 will get the automatic bid to the CFP.
06-08-2021 11:10 AM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #6
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 10:24 AM)bluesox Wrote:  12 team playoff model will make conference title games useless

So don't have a title game. Send two teams every year. 04-deal
06-08-2021 11:49 AM
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Post: #7
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 11:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 10:24 AM)bluesox Wrote:  12 team playoff model will make conference title games useless

I think it will make the CCG even more valuable; the winner of the CCGs in the P5 will get the automatic bid to the CFP.

I agree. You are still going to have to win regular season games to get to the championship game. Then win your ccg to get to the playoffs. If anything, the regular season will not diminish but the playoff season would seem to garner even more interest, especially if the best of the G5 is involved
06-08-2021 12:05 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #8
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 10:24 AM)bluesox Wrote:  12 team playoff model will make conference title games useless PLAY-IN games.

FIFY
06-08-2021 01:01 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #9
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 11:49 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 10:24 AM)bluesox Wrote:  12 team playoff model will make conference title games useless

So don't have a title game. Send two teams every year. 04-deal

In recent years, Clemson was going to the playoffs no matter what, and their Coastal division opponent was NOT going to the playoffs, no matter what. In other words, recent ACC CGs have been meaningless.

With this arrangement, a Clemson loss results in 2 ACC teams going to the playoffs... unless too many P5 regular season champs mail-in their CCGs, in which case the committee will have to decide not to reward the CCG losers.

Still, if we assume no one intentionally throws the CCG, this would make it an automatic play-in game (which Phillips and Co. should find a way to negotiate with ESPN for mo' money)
06-08-2021 01:05 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: 12 team model being discussed
Any automatic berth to the CFP will help the value of the Conference Championship Game. A 12-team playoff means that the G5 are adamant that they also need an automatic berth (I thought that all P5 conferences could justify auto-berths with an 8 team CFP, but the best G5 generally averages about #12 in the final rankings by the CFP committee).

It's interesting that the group is mentioning a 10-team CFP as their fall-back position. The P5 would lose access for their higher quality members, but it reduces the need for extra games (in case the academics are concerned about the physical toll on players).
06-08-2021 01:16 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #11
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 01:16 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Any automatic berth to the CFP will help the value of the Conference Championship Game. A 12-team playoff means that the G5 are adamant that they also need an automatic berth (I thought that all P5 conferences could justify auto-berths with an 8 team CFP, but the best G5 generally averages about #12 in the final rankings by the CFP committee).

It's interesting that the group is mentioning a 10-team CFP as their fall-back position. The P5 would lose access for their higher quality members, but it reduces the need for extra games (in case the academics are concerned about the physical toll on players).

It's Yahoo! When it comes to sports info they have not been remotely close to reality, ever. The talking heads, Finebaum included, say the P5 presidents are not enthused and that if expansion of the CFP were to happen 8 would likely be the number. That said Sankey sees no need to expand.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2021 01:37 PM by JRsec.)
06-08-2021 01:36 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #12
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 12:05 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 11:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 10:24 AM)bluesox Wrote:  12 team playoff model will make conference title games useless

I think it will make the CCG even more valuable; the winner of the CCGs in the P5 will get the automatic bid to the CFP.

I agree. You are still going to have to win regular season games to get to the championship game. Then win your ccg to get to the playoffs. If anything, the regular season will not diminish but the playoff season would seem to garner even more interest, especially if the best of the G5 is involved

The question is the 5-1-2 vs the 5-1-6.

What you said regarding the regular season and the conference championship games is true for the 8 team playoff.

With the 12 team playoff, expect a three loss SEC / Big Ten team to get an at large berth.
06-08-2021 01:58 PM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #13
RE: 12 team model being discussed
My model =

8 team playoff

5 auto bids to conference title winners of the p5
3 at large bids with 1 to highest ranked non p5
06-08-2021 03:08 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #14
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 01:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 01:16 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Any automatic berth to the CFP will help the value of the Conference Championship Game. A 12-team playoff means that the G5 are adamant that they also need an automatic berth (I thought that all P5 conferences could justify auto-berths with an 8 team CFP, but the best G5 generally averages about #12 in the final rankings by the CFP committee).

It's interesting that the group is mentioning a 10-team CFP as their fall-back position. The P5 would lose access for their higher quality members, but it reduces the need for extra games (in case the academics are concerned about the physical toll on players).

It's Yahoo! When it comes to sports info they have not been remotely close to reality, ever. The talking heads, Finebaum included, say the P5 presidents are not enthused and that if expansion of the CFP were to happen 8 would likely be the number. That said Sankey sees no need to expand.

It's not JUST Yahoo.

Momentum rapidly growing for College Football Playoff expansion to eight or more teams
Quote:Expansion will likely be agreed upon soon, but it will not be put in place for a couple years... College Football Playoff expansion discussions are moving faster than anyone initially thought. Doubling the CFP field to eight teams is all but assumed at this point, but expansion may not stop there, multiple industry sources tell CBS Sports...
06-08-2021 04:27 PM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 04:27 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 01:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 01:16 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Any automatic berth to the CFP will help the value of the Conference Championship Game. A 12-team playoff means that the G5 are adamant that they also need an automatic berth (I thought that all P5 conferences could justify auto-berths with an 8 team CFP, but the best G5 generally averages about #12 in the final rankings by the CFP committee).

It's interesting that the group is mentioning a 10-team CFP as their fall-back position. The P5 would lose access for their higher quality members, but it reduces the need for extra games (in case the academics are concerned about the physical toll on players).

It's Yahoo! When it comes to sports info they have not been remotely close to reality, ever. The talking heads, Finebaum included, say the P5 presidents are not enthused and that if expansion of the CFP were to happen 8 would likely be the number. That said Sankey sees no need to expand.

It's not JUST Yahoo.

Momentum rapidly growing for College Football Playoff expansion to eight or more teams
Quote:Expansion will likely be agreed upon soon, but it will not be put in place for a couple years... College Football Playoff expansion discussions are moving faster than anyone initially thought. Doubling the CFP field to eight teams is all but assumed at this point, but expansion may not stop there, multiple industry sources tell CBS Sports...

The Yahoo! article is mainly speculative (without substantive on-record quotes). Interesting how Sankey is depicted as the voice of authority; while Warren, Phillips and Kliavkoff learn the ropes.

What I get out of the CBS Sports article is that an automatic berth for a G5 team is the current “tipping point”. The MAC commissioner goes on record demanding some form of guaranteed G5 access.

Heather Dinich’s (ESPN) article skips the speculation and just confirms the participants for key meetings that are now scheduled.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...ayoff-size
06-08-2021 04:55 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #16
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 04:27 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 01:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 01:16 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Any automatic berth to the CFP will help the value of the Conference Championship Game. A 12-team playoff means that the G5 are adamant that they also need an automatic berth (I thought that all P5 conferences could justify auto-berths with an 8 team CFP, but the best G5 generally averages about #12 in the final rankings by the CFP committee).

It's interesting that the group is mentioning a 10-team CFP as their fall-back position. The P5 would lose access for their higher quality members, but it reduces the need for extra games (in case the academics are concerned about the physical toll on players).

It's Yahoo! When it comes to sports info they have not been remotely close to reality, ever. The talking heads, Finebaum included, say the P5 presidents are not enthused and that if expansion of the CFP were to happen 8 would likely be the number. That said Sankey sees no need to expand.

It's not JUST Yahoo.

Momentum rapidly growing for College Football Playoff expansion to eight or more teams
Quote:Expansion will likely be agreed upon soon, but it will not be put in place for a couple years... College Football Playoff expansion discussions are moving faster than anyone initially thought. Doubling the CFP field to eight teams is all but assumed at this point, but expansion may not stop there, multiple industry sources tell CBS Sports...

Mark, what else is there to talk about after June when the CWS is over? Sankey spoke on this 2 weeks ago. This is not being driven by the Presidents or AD's. It's wholly being driven by ESPN and media pundits. The reason for the pundits is clear. They need hits and sold articles and it is why ESPN leaks these stories that serve only their interests. They are after a very profitable first weekend in December when the SEC / B1G / ACC / and B12 and a lesser extent in the PAC all have their CCG's which they own and ESPN can't make much on other than a portion of advertising. They don't get the 50/50 split of the profits they get on the rest of the games.

This allows ESPN to let a lot of their also ran minor bowl contracts to lapse when they desire, it starts the demise of the CCG's, and it gives them even more control over our conferences. The NCAA when they have total control over the hoops tourney pockets 70 million a year to their endowment accounts (2) and pays tourney creds out over 3 years and pockets the interest (low right now but with intentional inflation coming).

If you think a bloated NCAA is rotten with skimming revenue from the main producers (many ACC schools) and socializes the revenue to buy control you ain't seen nothing yet when a major international conglomerate like Disney has that leverage over football. Keep in mind that the CCG revenue was always in your conferences control. Once those are gone we all get whatever Disney says they'll pay and the dangling carrot amount they offer today isn't guaranteed tomorrow.

So again the power of media is being used to make it seem that this is a done deal when nobody at the schools is anxious to jump, unless of course you are a G5.

Expansion of playoffs will detract in a major way from the regular season. Just look at what happens to hoops numbers in attendance, donations, and tv ratings for non tourney games. In football gate, donations, ratings, and concessions are greater than media revenue. Do we really want to let ESPN's snake oil salesmen promise us more money for a playoff expansion that multiplies their profits for what looks like an attractive increase in media money they can adjust later, in exchange for diminishing our regular season at the expense of losses in gate, donations, concessions, and ratings which then are used to justify lower payouts? I sure don't!

Why do they really want to expand the playoffs? It sure isn't to find the best team as the BCS got that right 95% of the time. It is because ESPN doesn't want a champs only format determined on the field because then they don't have a committee they sponsor to pick the schools with the best market reach. In other words they have to take the winners and not their best money makers. A 12 or 8 team playoff gives them so many more angles to exploit and at the expense of the game, the players, the schools and conferences and you won't hear on their media any point of view contrary to their point of view.

Today on Finebaum he's interrupting any caller who points out the flaws and redirecting to the networks selling points.

The importance and finality of each regular season game is what makes football ticket sales successful. Sales decline when fans are turned off by do-overs. Last year the do over for Clemson diminished Notre Dame's season. Auburn beat Georgia only having to play them again in 2 weeks. It ruined the season whether we get into CFP or not. You win a season defining game and 2 weeks later your rival gets a do-over? That's not life and it's not football. In life you own what happens. That is why champions lay it on the line every week. Now with expanded playoffs key players may sit out season ending games if their team is a lock for the CFP anyway and who is cheated? Fans who pay to see the best each week and players who learn a crappy life lesson of dogging it if it isn't crucial or if it doesn't suit you.

Personally I hate what it will do to the game, to players, and to each of our schools profits.
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2021 05:43 PM by JRsec.)
06-08-2021 05:39 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #17
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 05:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 04:27 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 01:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 01:16 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Any automatic berth to the CFP will help the value of the Conference Championship Game. A 12-team playoff means that the G5 are adamant that they also need an automatic berth (I thought that all P5 conferences could justify auto-berths with an 8 team CFP, but the best G5 generally averages about #12 in the final rankings by the CFP committee).

It's interesting that the group is mentioning a 10-team CFP as their fall-back position. The P5 would lose access for their higher quality members, but it reduces the need for extra games (in case the academics are concerned about the physical toll on players).

It's Yahoo! When it comes to sports info they have not been remotely close to reality, ever. The talking heads, Finebaum included, say the P5 presidents are not enthused and that if expansion of the CFP were to happen 8 would likely be the number. That said Sankey sees no need to expand.

It's not JUST Yahoo.

Momentum rapidly growing for College Football Playoff expansion to eight or more teams
Quote:Expansion will likely be agreed upon soon, but it will not be put in place for a couple years... College Football Playoff expansion discussions are moving faster than anyone initially thought. Doubling the CFP field to eight teams is all but assumed at this point, but expansion may not stop there, multiple industry sources tell CBS Sports...

Mark, what else is there to talk about after June when the CWS is over? Sankey spoke on this 2 weeks ago. This is not being driven by the Presidents or AD's. It's wholly being driven by ESPN and media pundits. The reason for the pundits is clear. They need hits and sold articles and it is why ESPN leaks these stories that serve only their interests. They are after a very profitable first weekend in December when the SEC / B1G / ACC / and B12 and a lesser extent in the PAC all have their CCG's which they own and ESPN can't make much on other than a portion of advertising. They don't get the 50/50 split of the profits they get on the rest of the games.

This allows ESPN to let a lot of their also ran minor bowl contracts to lapse when they desire, it starts the demise of the CCG's, and it gives them even more control over our conferences. The NCAA when they have total control over the hoops tourney pockets 70 million a year to their endowment accounts (2) and pays tourney creds out over 3 years and pockets the interest (low right now but with intentional inflation coming).

If you think a bloated NCAA is rotten with skimming revenue from the main producers (many ACC schools) and socializes the revenue to buy control you ain't seen nothing yet when a major international conglomerate like Disney has that leverage over football. Keep in mind that the CCG revenue was always in your conferences control. Once those are gone we all get whatever Disney says they'll pay and the dangling carrot amount they offer today isn't guaranteed tomorrow.

So again the power of media is being used to make it seem that this is a done deal when nobody at the schools is anxious to jump, unless of course you are a G5.

Expansion of playoffs will detract in a major way from the regular season. Just look at what happens to hoops numbers in attendance, donations, and tv ratings for non tourney games. In football gate, donations, ratings, and concessions are greater than media revenue. Do we really want to let ESPN's snake oil salesmen promise us more money for a playoff expansion that multiplies their profits for what looks like an attractive increase in media money they can adjust later, in exchange for diminishing our regular season at the expense of losses in gate, donations, concessions, and ratings which then are used to justify lower payouts? I sure don't!

Why do they really want to expand the playoffs? It sure isn't to find the best team as the BCS got that right 95% of the time. It is because ESPN doesn't want a champs only format determined on the field because then they don't have a committee they sponsor to pick the schools with the best market reach. In other words they have to take the winners and not their best money makers. A 12 or 8 team playoff gives them so many more angles to exploit and at the expense of the game, the players, the schools and conferences and you won't hear on their media any point of view contrary to their point of view.

Today on Finebaum he's interrupting any caller who points out the flaws and redirecting to the networks selling points.

The importance and finality of each regular season game is what makes football ticket sales successful. Sales decline when fans are turned off by do-overs. Last year the do over for Clemson diminished Notre Dame's season. Auburn beat Georgia only having to play them again in 2 weeks. It ruined the season whether we get into CFP or not. You win a season defining game and 2 weeks later your rival gets a do-over? That's not life and it's not football. In life you own what happens. That is why champions lay it on the line every week. Now with expanded playoffs key players may sit out season ending games if their team is a lock for the CFP anyway and who is cheated? Fans who pay to see the best each week and players who learn a crappy life lesson of dogging it if it isn't crucial or if it doesn't suit you.

Personally I hate what it will do to the game, to players, and to each of our schools profits.

The reason you and I disagree on this mainly comes down to one difference of opinion: you think the CCGs will be eliminated, whereas I do not.
06-08-2021 06:07 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #18
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 06:07 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 05:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 04:27 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 01:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-08-2021 01:16 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Any automatic berth to the CFP will help the value of the Conference Championship Game. A 12-team playoff means that the G5 are adamant that they also need an automatic berth (I thought that all P5 conferences could justify auto-berths with an 8 team CFP, but the best G5 generally averages about #12 in the final rankings by the CFP committee).

It's interesting that the group is mentioning a 10-team CFP as their fall-back position. The P5 would lose access for their higher quality members, but it reduces the need for extra games (in case the academics are concerned about the physical toll on players).

It's Yahoo! When it comes to sports info they have not been remotely close to reality, ever. The talking heads, Finebaum included, say the P5 presidents are not enthused and that if expansion of the CFP were to happen 8 would likely be the number. That said Sankey sees no need to expand.

It's not JUST Yahoo.

Momentum rapidly growing for College Football Playoff expansion to eight or more teams
Quote:Expansion will likely be agreed upon soon, but it will not be put in place for a couple years... College Football Playoff expansion discussions are moving faster than anyone initially thought. Doubling the CFP field to eight teams is all but assumed at this point, but expansion may not stop there, multiple industry sources tell CBS Sports...

Mark, what else is there to talk about after June when the CWS is over? Sankey spoke on this 2 weeks ago. This is not being driven by the Presidents or AD's. It's wholly being driven by ESPN and media pundits. The reason for the pundits is clear. They need hits and sold articles and it is why ESPN leaks these stories that serve only their interests. They are after a very profitable first weekend in December when the SEC / B1G / ACC / and B12 and a lesser extent in the PAC all have their CCG's which they own and ESPN can't make much on other than a portion of advertising. They don't get the 50/50 split of the profits they get on the rest of the games.

This allows ESPN to let a lot of their also ran minor bowl contracts to lapse when they desire, it starts the demise of the CCG's, and it gives them even more control over our conferences. The NCAA when they have total control over the hoops tourney pockets 70 million a year to their endowment accounts (2) and pays tourney creds out over 3 years and pockets the interest (low right now but with intentional inflation coming).

If you think a bloated NCAA is rotten with skimming revenue from the main producers (many ACC schools) and socializes the revenue to buy control you ain't seen nothing yet when a major international conglomerate like Disney has that leverage over football. Keep in mind that the CCG revenue was always in your conferences control. Once those are gone we all get whatever Disney says they'll pay and the dangling carrot amount they offer today isn't guaranteed tomorrow.

So again the power of media is being used to make it seem that this is a done deal when nobody at the schools is anxious to jump, unless of course you are a G5.

Expansion of playoffs will detract in a major way from the regular season. Just look at what happens to hoops numbers in attendance, donations, and tv ratings for non tourney games. In football gate, donations, ratings, and concessions are greater than media revenue. Do we really want to let ESPN's snake oil salesmen promise us more money for a playoff expansion that multiplies their profits for what looks like an attractive increase in media money they can adjust later, in exchange for diminishing our regular season at the expense of losses in gate, donations, concessions, and ratings which then are used to justify lower payouts? I sure don't!

Why do they really want to expand the playoffs? It sure isn't to find the best team as the BCS got that right 95% of the time. It is because ESPN doesn't want a champs only format determined on the field because then they don't have a committee they sponsor to pick the schools with the best market reach. In other words they have to take the winners and not their best money makers. A 12 or 8 team playoff gives them so many more angles to exploit and at the expense of the game, the players, the schools and conferences and you won't hear on their media any point of view contrary to their point of view.

Today on Finebaum he's interrupting any caller who points out the flaws and redirecting to the networks selling points.

The importance and finality of each regular season game is what makes football ticket sales successful. Sales decline when fans are turned off by do-overs. Last year the do over for Clemson diminished Notre Dame's season. Auburn beat Georgia only having to play them again in 2 weeks. It ruined the season whether we get into CFP or not. You win a season defining game and 2 weeks later your rival gets a do-over? That's not life and it's not football. In life you own what happens. That is why champions lay it on the line every week. Now with expanded playoffs key players may sit out season ending games if their team is a lock for the CFP anyway and who is cheated? Fans who pay to see the best each week and players who learn a crappy life lesson of dogging it if it isn't crucial or if it doesn't suit you.

Personally I hate what it will do to the game, to players, and to each of our schools profits.

The reason you and I disagree on this mainly comes down to one difference of opinion: you think the CCGs will be eliminated, whereas I do not.

It will vanish if we move to more than 6 places in the CFP. I could do 6. Give #1 and #2 a bye and it doesn't alter things. By no means of logic do CCG's remain if we goo bigger. Why would any power conference want to diminish 1 of a certain 2 entrants? It may take a year or two but the would surely die. Risk aversion rules the day in corporate thinking and the CCGs will become a risk with more downside than upside.

But that's certainly not my only concern. I'd say the importance of the regular season is #1. There is much truth in the belief that the more we become like the NFL the more support we will lose. Pay for play is already a major risk in that regard making holding onto college football's uniqueness all the more important.
06-08-2021 06:19 PM
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Post: #19
RE: 12 team model being discussed
Quote: working group made up of Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby, Mountain West commissioner Craig Thompson, SEC commissioner Greg Sankey and Notre Dame AD Jack Swarbrick -- chairman of the group

My favorite part of the article.
06-08-2021 06:40 PM
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Post: #20
RE: 12 team model being discussed
(06-08-2021 06:40 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  
Quote: working group made up of Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby, Mountain West commissioner Craig Thompson, SEC commissioner Greg Sankey and Notre Dame AD Jack Swarbrick -- chairman of the group

My favorite part of the article.

I predict two things:

1) An 8 team playoff;

2) ND football stays independent.
06-09-2021 12:48 AM
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