This is an idea I support. The people sitting in jail currently doing nothing productive have the time to spend studying. Jail is supposed to rehabilitate people, and education is a good way to do that. Also, people in jail involved with "betterment" programs of any tend to be better behaved, easier to work with for the staff etc.

Of course, it feels like we're just giving away free education to the least deserving in some ways, but I'd counter that argument with figures on how much incarceration costs already, with fairly high recidivism. Reducing numbers of people who end up back in jail could make it pay for itself.

One other thing I like is that it utilizes an existing structure that is already in place, without creating a whole new department to oversee. The education provided will have some cost involved, and it would probably be about the same if it was administered thru the Pell Grant system or another way, so I'm fine with Pell.

I don't know what the exact qualifications are, but I am sure not everyone can qualify. And plenty of people in prisons would have absolutely no interest in studying. But for those that do, it seems like a reasonable cost to possibly get a big benefit from.

Jail is supposed to be punishment for a-holes that commit crimes.

It's not meant for rehabilitation. It's supposed to be a deterrent from committing crime again.

(06-21-2021 07:43 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Jail is supposed to be punishment for a-holes that commit crimes.

It's not meant for rehabilitation. It's supposed to be a deterrent from committing crime again.

While I agree to an extent that's a bit simplistic. If only it worked that way. What about the kid who commits a stupid crime and spends 20 years of his life behind bars doing nothing to create some value for himself? He gets out and 20 years have passed him by, he has NO skills on which to count, how long before he's right back in jail?

If you can rehab a person to become a productive member of society it's insane to argue against it IMO.

(06-21-2021 07:43 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Jail is supposed to be punishment for a-holes that commit crimes.

It's not meant for rehabilitation. It's supposed to be a deterrent from committing crime again.

I think you might need to do some research on the purpose of jails.. rehabilitation is part of that.

Honestly, wouldnt you consider it stupid AF to just "house" criminals until their sentence is up so they go right back out and rob people again?

Jail is to keep bad people away from good people.

All for it if they have some sort of buy in and have to work a portion off after reintroduced into society.

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(06-21-2021 11:04 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Jail is to keep bad people away from good people.

so you think once that bad person is released he is all of a sudden a good person? because if he is still a bad person, then why would he be released since jail is to keep bad people away from good people?

(06-21-2021 11:16 AM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(06-21-2021 11:04 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Jail is to keep bad people away from good people.

so you think once that bad person is released he is all of a sudden a good person? because if he is still a bad person, then why would he be released since jail is to keep bad people away from good people?

Did I say they should be released?

(06-21-2021 10:57 AM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(06-21-2021 07:43 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Jail is supposed to be punishment for a-holes that commit crimes.

It's not meant for rehabilitation. It's supposed to be a deterrent from committing crime again.

I think you might need to do some research on the purpose of jails.. rehabilitation is part of that.

Honestly, wouldnt you consider it stupid AF to just "house" criminals until their sentence is up so they go right back out and rob people again?

Yeah, rehabilitation in the form of "get your head out of your a$$ or you'll be right back in here again". It's called accountability.

I think it's stupid AF to think that you can change... rehabilitate, if you will... a person that doesn't care to change themselves.

Hands from everyone one that would hire an ex-con that has been in prison for twenty years that got his/her degree in the clink as opposed to someone who has not.

(06-21-2021 11:16 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-21-2021 11:16 AM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(06-21-2021 11:04 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Jail is to keep bad people away from good people.

so you think once that bad person is released he is all of a sudden a good person? because if he is still a bad person, then why would he be released since jail is to keep bad people away from good people?

Did I say they should be released?

Are you telling us you never broke the law, in your life? Or is jail for those that only get caught?

I’m not talking about speeding or smoking pot. There are a certain percentage of our number that is unable to function in polite society, never will be able to, and should be separated from it.

(06-21-2021 11:33 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Hands from everyone one that would hire an ex-con that has been in prison for twenty years that got his/her degree in the clink as opposed to someone who has not.

Over the 40 years that I owned a number of businesses (started my first as a Sr in high school) I've hired a lot of felons. Some of the best damn workers (and people) I ever been around. People that have made mistakes and ready correct them and turn their life around....

usually are better/harder workers

(06-21-2021 11:39 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(06-21-2021 11:33 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Hands from everyone one that would hire an ex-con that has been in prison for twenty years that got his/her degree in the clink as opposed to someone who has not.

Over the 40 years that I owned a number of businesses (started my first as a Sr in high school) I've hired a lot of felons. Some of the best damn workers (and people) I ever been around. People that have made mistakes and ready correct them and turn their life around....

usually are better/harder workers

So. You are saying you hired college graduates that got their degrees in the slammer from tax payer money over non-felons who got their degrees by either EARNING a scholarship or from a student loan. Because that is what this thread is about. No one is referring to hiring people to do pshit that ONLY folks with bad pasts will take. Spin.

(06-21-2021 11:38 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I’m not talking about speeding or smoking pot. There are a certain percentage of our number that is unable to function in polite society, never will be able to, and should be separated from it.

So you want to decide what laws a person can and cannot break? What about drunk driving, you ever do that? Not what you think you can handle and drive but the law? Ever punch a loud mouth in the face? You committed assault. Ever try to feel up a girl as a horny 18 years old? Sexual assault, unless you asked her first. Once more you ever cheated on your taxes? Everyone has but its still breaking federal laws.

Just because you never was charged with any of those you committed....

doesnt mean you never committed the crime

(06-21-2021 11:38 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I’m not talking about speeding or smoking pot. There are a certain percentage of our number that is unable to function in polite society, never will be able to, and should be separated from it.

If only those people were in jail, you would have a point. Sure, there are people that will never be more than what they are and need to be removed from society. It is all the others that I am talking about.

There are way too many stupid laws and way too many different penalties for the same thing in different states.

A group of college students from Colorado go to Florida for spring break. They each take a vape pen. They are not smoking while they drive.

Completely legal in Colorado.

Arkansas= misdemeanor up to 25 grams, 250 dollar fine.

Louisiana- misdeamor up to 400 grams, 150 dollar fine.

Mississippi- automatic felony .01-1 gram 1 year mandatory minimum. 1.1-2 grams 2 years mandatory minimum.
2.1-30 grams 3 year mandatory minimum.
30.1+ 30 years mandatory minimum.


now, in comparison, do you see how ridiculous that is? What is completely legal in one state is an automatic 1+ years in jail mandatory minimum in another state. Nothing anyone can do about it. No plea deals, no time off for good behavior, you go to jail.


(Mississippi dropped the mandatory minimum 2 years ago because so many people were getting caught with vape pens and gummies and other mainstream concentrates) but it is still an automatic felony and that doesnt just go away.

(06-21-2021 11:44 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(06-21-2021 11:39 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(06-21-2021 11:33 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Hands from everyone one that would hire an ex-con that has been in prison for twenty years that got his/her degree in the clink as opposed to someone who has not.

Over the 40 years that I owned a number of businesses (started my first as a Sr in high school) I've hired a lot of felons. Some of the best damn workers (and people) I ever been around. People that have made mistakes and ready correct them and turn their life around....

usually are better/harder workers

So. You are saying you hired college graduates that got their degrees in the slammer from tax payer money over non-felons who got their degrees by either EARNING a scholarship or from a student loan. Because that is what this thread is about. No one is referring to hiring people to do pshit that ONLY folks with bad pasts will take. Spin.

You are assuming a lot in this post. When I retired at the age of 52(almost 10 years ago) the average wage we were paying was $38,000 a year. Unskilled labor started at $10 an hour and skilled at $15 an hour. And with in two years you would not be making less than $15. After a year you would also have profit sharing...not included in that average.

Had a lot of non criminal college students to work for me. Most did not last because they felt they were owed something. I personally believe in second chances as long as someone is willing to improve their life with it. Believe it or not....

most people dont want to go back to jail/prison and if you treat them like you want to be treated, pay a wage they can live on (according to their skill). In my experience you will find a hardass worker that's going to give you the same respect because they dont want to f'up. I've also hired a large number of addicts and those wanting the change but didn't have the structure to turn their life around. Turned it around. Those that never wanted it in the first place...didnt.

I see what a college degree can do for you....

hell we have a few of those spending 6 to 7 of their 8 hour work day. On the internet. If I caught a person loafing like that on my dime, college, felon, drug head, family. They wouldnt get a third chance

I have no real problem with it as long as people who are, you know in prion that may need a Pell Grant don’t get negatively impacted.

(06-21-2021 11:45 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(06-21-2021 11:38 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I’m not talking about speeding or smoking pot. There are a certain percentage of our number that is unable to function in polite society, never will be able to, and should be separated from it.

So you want to decide what laws a person can and cannot break? What about drunk driving, you ever do that? Not what you think you can handle and drive but the law? Ever punch a loud mouth in the face? You committed assault. Ever try to feel up a girl as a horny 18 years old? Sexual assault, unless you asked her first. Once more you ever cheated on your taxes? Everyone has but its still breaking federal laws.

Just because you never was charged with any of those you committed....

doesnt mean you never committed the crime

Just because you’re a criminal doesn’t mean everyone is.

I may be in the minority, on this, but I am a big believer in the transformative power of the educational process. Sometimes what you're learning can be secondary to the process of getting your mind working, thinking of new ideas, and yes, maybe even inspiring some people. Maybe dreaming a little, when they hadn't before.

If they get a degree or not, there is still a lot of potential for gain. I know its an intangible, but I believe its real.

And who knows, being around even 1 inmate is is transformed, inspired, optimistic, can change others as well. We all know that some come out even worse than they go in, maybe this could counter act that at least a little.

The cost of prisons is just so high. I won't even get into the debate of why people are in, who should be in or for how long, but the current system is sucking us dry.