The SEC will be moving to a 16-team conference while other FBS conferences could consider such a move.

How does scheduling work for such a configuration with four 4-team pods and what are the advantages of a 16-team conference compared to a 14-team conference with two 7-team divisions or a 12-team conference with two 6-team divisions?

Do two pods make up an 8-team division or is it organized more like the National Football Conference with four 4-team divisions?

(09-17-2021 08:52 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  The SEC will be moving to a 16-team conference while other FBS conferences could consider such a move.

How does scheduling work for such a configuration with four 4-team pods and what are the advantages of a 16-team conference compared to a 14-team conference with two 7-team divisions or a 12-team conference with two 6-team divisions?

Do two pods make up an 8-team division or is it organized more like the National Football Conference with four 4-team divisions?

Current rules would call for them to rotate amongst 2 divisions but when people talk about pods in general it is typically as each pod being it’s own division

They may try and market it like 4 divisions (copying the NFL directional names). Divisions WILL be paired for scheduling purposes (as, also, the NFL does). And, if current rules prevail, winners of those paired divisions will meet in the SEC Championship.

The base schedule will be your 3 pod rivals and 4 games against teams from the paired pod (pairings are on a 3-year rotation). That is 7 games. The 8th (and potentially 9th) game will be for Auburn-Georgia and/or other top-vs-top games.

Commentary from coaches on 8-team vs 4-team divisions is that they need to drop the number of permanent rivals... so 4-team divisions are more likely than not.

(09-17-2021 09:42 PM)Crayton Wrote:  They may try and market it like 4 divisions (copying the NFL directional names). Divisions WILL be paired for scheduling purposes (as, also, the NFL does). And, if current rules prevail, winners of those paired divisions will meet in the SEC Championship.

The base schedule will be your 3 pod rivals and 4 games against teams from the paired pod (pairings are on a 3-year rotation). That is 7 games. The 8th (and potentially 9th) game will be for Auburn-Georgia and/or other top-vs-top games.

Commentary from coaches on 8-team vs 4-team divisions is that they need to drop the number of permanent rivals... so 4-team divisions are more likely than not.

It will more likely be 3-2-2-2.
Alabama, auburn, Georgia, TN
Florida, South Carolina, Vandy, KY
Texas A&M, Miss St. OLe.Miss, LSU
Texas, OK, Arkansas, Missouri

(I think the network proposed:
Alabama, Auburn, TN, Vandy

But this keeps the Georgia-Auburn game permanent.

(09-17-2021 10:47 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(09-17-2021 09:42 PM)Crayton Wrote:  They may try and market it like 4 divisions (copying the NFL directional names). Divisions WILL be paired for scheduling purposes (as, also, the NFL does). And, if current rules prevail, winners of those paired divisions will meet in the SEC Championship.

The base schedule will be your 3 pod rivals and 4 games against teams from the paired pod (pairings are on a 3-year rotation). That is 7 games. The 8th (and potentially 9th) game will be for Auburn-Georgia and/or other top-vs-top games.

Commentary from coaches on 8-team vs 4-team divisions is that they need to drop the number of permanent rivals... so 4-team divisions are more likely than not.

It will more likely be 3-2-2-2.
Alabama, auburn, Georgia, TN
Florida, South Carolina, Vandy, KY
Texas A&M, Miss St. OLe.Miss, LSU
Texas, OK, Arkansas, Missouri

(I think the network proposed:
Alabama, Auburn, TN, Vandy

But this keeps the Georgia-Auburn game permanent.

What about Florida-Georgia? No matter how they’re split, pods will not maintain all rivalries within the pods.

(09-17-2021 11:02 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(09-17-2021 10:47 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(09-17-2021 09:42 PM)Crayton Wrote:  They may try and market it like 4 divisions (copying the NFL directional names). Divisions WILL be paired for scheduling purposes (as, also, the NFL does). And, if current rules prevail, winners of those paired divisions will meet in the SEC Championship.

The base schedule will be your 3 pod rivals and 4 games against teams from the paired pod (pairings are on a 3-year rotation). That is 7 games. The 8th (and potentially 9th) game will be for Auburn-Georgia and/or other top-vs-top games.

Commentary from coaches on 8-team vs 4-team divisions is that they need to drop the number of permanent rivals... so 4-team divisions are more likely than not.

It will more likely be 3-2-2-2.
Alabama, auburn, Georgia, TN
Florida, South Carolina, Vandy, KY
Texas A&M, Miss St. OLe.Miss, LSU
Texas, OK, Arkansas, Missouri

(I think the network proposed:
Alabama, Auburn, TN, Vandy

But this keeps the Georgia-Auburn game permanent.

What about Florida-Georgia? No matter how they’re split, pods will not maintain all rivalries within the pods.

Go to a 3-3-3 format
You play all 3 schools in your pod
You get 1 annually protected "rival" game against each of the 3 pods to protect all the core rivalries UF/Tenn, Bama/LSU, UGA/Aub, etc...
Then with the remaining 3 games you rotate the remaining 3 schools in each pod on your schedule so you play them all H&H over a 6 year period.

(09-17-2021 08:58 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  

(09-17-2021 08:52 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  The SEC will be moving to a 16-team conference while other FBS conferences could consider such a move.

How does scheduling work for such a configuration with four 4-team pods and what are the advantages of a 16-team conference compared to a 14-team conference with two 7-team divisions or a 12-team conference with two 6-team divisions?

Do two pods make up an 8-team division or is it organized more like the National Football Conference with four 4-team divisions?

Current rules would call for them to rotate amongst 2 divisions but when people talk about pods in general it is typically as each pod being it’s own division

I never know what people mean by "pods" without context. If they mean "semi-divisions" why not just call them that? If they mean "divisions" why not call them divisions?

And here is an example of people calling a divisionless system with multiple permanent opponents for 14-team conferences a "pod system." Makes no sense :)

my humble opinion of pods

There are no pods I think that all 16 SEC teams (or at least enough of the A list teams) can agree on. I've discussed this very simply before. Add two teams to a pod with Alabama and Auburn. Alabama wants Tennessee, Auburn wants Georgia. If your pod is those four schools, what about Georgia-Florida?

Ironically in the SEC's case, the East-West divisions work better in terms of protecting desirable annual matchups. LSU is the biggest loser as they lose Alabama but they get to keep Texas A&M and gain Texas and Oklahoma as annual matchups. Alabama loses LSU but gains Florida and Georgia every year while Alabama-Tennessee becomes a divisional game.

The SEC's best interest IMO is to campaign to get rid of the division rule and go to either a 9 game schedule with 3 permanent rivals or if they must keep an 8 game schedule, 1 permanent rival (Ala/Aub, Fla/Ga, Tex/Okl, Miss/MissSt, A&M/LSU, Ark/Mo, Tenn/Vbilt, Ky/SC (sorry, they're stuck with each other)). You want to play other teams more than once? Man up and get rid of Alabama/New Mexico State and Florida/Sanford. Alabama/Florida should be playing on Nov. 13 when both teams are 9-0, not Sept. 18 when both teams are 2-0 and Florida (I mean the loser) is out of the Playoff before October.

I think the 4-team structure outlined in the second post explains quite well how Auburn-Georgia (and A&M-Texas, LSU-‘Bama, etc) survive being in separate divisions.

Coaches (who, true, are not primary decision makers) want the 4-team structure and will not want divisionless where their schedules may be much more difficult than another’s when trying to get a CCG berth in a given year.

Just about the only thing going for the 3-2-2-2 scheduling model is that the SEC Network posted a scenario with it that first week. Here are a few of its flaws compared to rotating pairs.

1) division mates play up to 6 un-common opponents.
2) top teams play <50% of their games against Top teams. (TV)
3) it is, currently, against the rules.
4) you lose cross-division rivalries. (Aub-Geo, LSU-Ala, A&M-Tex, etc)
5) it only works if the conference goes to 9 games.
6) okay, a pro, it requires 4 unique schedules not 6.

Rotating pairs is how the NFL schedules and how the SEC will schedule 4-team divisions.

The SEC going to 9 conference games will be no adjustment for Texas and Oklahoma because the Big 12 does that now. I could see the SEC making that change to try the leverage the increased value of the additional inventory.

If there's no relief on the division rules - although the ACC and new-look Big 12 would likely support it - I could see this setup:

A - Oklahoma, Texas, Mississippi, Mississippi State
B - Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Tennessee
C - Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri
D - Vanderbilt, Kentucky, South Carolina, Florida

Pods A&B are in a division in Years 1-2, A&C are in a division in Years 3-4, and A&D are in a division in Years 5-6.

As an example, here is Texas with an 8 (9) conference game schedule:

2025 - Pod A, Pod B, @Texas A&M, (Vanderbilt)
2026 - Pod A, Pod B, Texas A&M, (@Vanderbilt)
2027 - Pod A, Pod C, @Auburn, (Florida)
2028 - Pod A, Pod C, Auburn, (@Florida)
2029 - Pod A, Pod D, @Texas A&M, (Georgia)
2030 - Pod A, Pod D, Texas A&M, (@Georgia)

I think even if division rules were relaxed, the SEC would prefer divisions for competitive reasons. There is not much extra that divisionless can give you... except allowing Alabama-Auburn to play two weeks in a row. If I were doing divisions I'd prioritize making all 4 of even strength. Here are teams ranked by conference record over the last decade:

A: Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Georgia
B: Florida, Auburn, Texas A&M, Texas
C: South Carolina, Missouri, Kentucky, Ole Miss
D: Miss St, Arkansas, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

That breaks down into 4 neat divisions:
EAST: Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Vanderbilt
NORTH: Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Tennessee
SOUTH: LSU, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, Miss St
WEST: Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, Arkansas

I might consider switching Vanderbilt and Kentucky for season-end rivalries and timezone reasons (plus, maybe we should pretend Tennessee is still a C-grade team while Kentucky is a D). Because "North" and "West" seem out-of-place in a South East Conference, I'd consider "Central" and "Plains" or similar monikers.

Again, a rotation takes up only 7 games each year. A team's 8th cross-over game would be A/B vs. A/B or C/D vs. C/D. This could include: Auburn-Georgia, A&M-Texas, Vandy-Ole Miss(or UT), Kentucky-MSU(or UT), LSU-'Bama, Columbia-Columbia, Florida-OU, Arkansas-the other MS school. As said in the previous thread, I'd be a fan of some of these being split so that certain sets of teams could play one another 2 out of 3 years (like UF, 'Bama, OU, and LSU).

(09-18-2021 07:45 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  The SEC going to 9 conference games will be no adjustment for Texas and Oklahoma because the Big 12 does that now. I could see the SEC making that change to try the leverage the increased value of the additional inventory.

I was thinking the SEC's strategy could be to stay at 8 games for the short team and get mega bucks for Texas and Oklahoma joining. Then down the road, move to 9 conference games to get more money out of the networks for that additional inventory. If they go to 9 now, they don't have many cards to play down the road short of inviting more teams or moving to 10 conference games. I would think they'd want to be paid for every step along the way. Of course, their may be no way around 9 games with 16 teams...

(09-19-2021 03:49 PM)Crayton Wrote:  I think even if division rules were relaxed, the SEC would prefer divisions for competitive reasons. There is not much extra that divisionless can give you... except allowing Alabama-Auburn to play two weeks in a row. If I were doing divisions I'd prioritize making all 4 of even strength. Here are teams ranked by conference record over the last decade:

A: Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma, Georgia
B: Florida, Auburn, Texas A&M, Texas
C: South Carolina, Missouri, Kentucky, Ole Miss
D: Miss St, Arkansas, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

That breaks down into 4 neat divisions:
EAST: Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Vanderbilt
NORTH: Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Tennessee
SOUTH: LSU, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, Miss St
WEST: Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, Arkansas

I might consider switching Vanderbilt and Kentucky for season-end rivalries and timezone reasons (plus, maybe we should pretend Tennessee is still a C-grade team while Kentucky is a D). Because "North" and "West" seem out-of-place in a South East Conference, I'd consider "Central" and "Plains" or similar monikers.

Again, a rotation takes up only 7 games each year. A team's 8th cross-over game would be A/B vs. A/B or C/D vs. C/D. This could include: Auburn-Georgia, A&M-Texas, Vandy-Ole Miss(or UT), Kentucky-MSU(or UT), LSU-'Bama, Columbia-Columbia, Florida-OU, Arkansas-the other MS school. As said in the previous thread, I'd be a fan of some of these being split so that certain sets of teams could play one another 2 out of 3 years (like UF, 'Bama, OU, and LSU).

I don't like anything where the divisions are set up "according to strength" unless that makeup of each group changes. You looked at the records over the last decade, but what about 2000-2009, 1990-1999, etc. What's accurate for today isn't necessary accurate for tomorrow. Alabama isn't always going to be at the top. Florida was a sleeping giant until the 1990's. Tennessee was once a national powerhouse but is now in your last group. For that reason, I think the pods would have to be based off geography.

SEC is going to 9. Their 10 game 2020 experience showed how much more valuable SEC games were than OOC as fan experience and draws. The Florida-Alabama game was a show case of that value. The pretty much have to with Texas and Oklahoma joining. They could even go to 10 games.

The Alliance is in reaction, the recognition that games like Penn State vs Auburn will become fewer, while games like Oregon vs Ohio State will become more common, with the dates spread over the calendar year more, not just in September.

The SEC is not super interested in schedule balance, but in getting the key match ups in and a quality CCG. The whole pod concept is based on the concepts of fairness and minimal travel. Schedule balance may matter to pro sports, and travel concerns to small budget FCS and G5 programs, but this is the SEC, this is big time and it just doesn't matter. Maybe you care for women's Volleyball and Soccer, but otherwise it's balderdash. In basketball you play 20 games, 1 against everyone for 15 and 5 others as the TV networks demand, not geography or "balance and fairness."

Pods are for suckers.

No divisions, three perma rivals.

(09-19-2021 04:33 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  SEC is going to 9. Their 10 game 2020 experience showed how much more valuable SEC games were than OOC as fan experience and draws. The Florida-Alabama game was a show case of that value. The pretty much have to with Texas and Oklahoma joining. They could even go to 10 games.

The Alliance is in reaction, the recognition that games like Penn State vs Auburn will become fewer, while games like Oregon vs Ohio State will become more common, with the dates spread over the calendar year more, not just in September.

The SEC is not super interested in schedule balance, but in getting the key match ups in and a quality CCG. The whole pod concept is based on the concepts of fairness and minimal travel. Schedule balance may matter to pro sports, and travel concerns to small budget FCS and G5 programs, but this is the SEC, this is big time and it just doesn't matter. Maybe you care for women's Volleyball and Soccer, but otherwise it's balderdash. In basketball you play 20 games, 1 against everyone for 15 and 5 others as the TV networks demand, not geography or "balance and fairness."

Pods are for suckers.

Did the SEC really learn anything last year? If the SEC really cared about quality games last year, they would've given us Alabama/Florida and Georgia/LSU instead of making sure Missouri and Arkansas played the top teams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYkc72gqCCM

I'll believe the SEC cares about quality matchups when I see it. I'll believe they'll go to a 9 game conference schedule when I see it.

As long as you call the one with Alabama in it the Tide Pod then I don't give a hoot in hell who's in them

The pods that were proposed can work with either an 8- or 9-game schedule. If you have an 8-game schedule wherein the pods rotate between two 8-team divisions in a 3-year cycle, then in each column, the pair of teams with the same color play every year, while the pair of teams with the same font style (bold or normal) play every 2 years out of 3. If you have a 9-game scheduled with rotating pods, then all the schools in the same column play each other every year.