Brought this up on the Drexel board

(09-16-2021 07:33 PM)DrachenFire Wrote:  I’ll preface this by saying I have no idea if they’d be interested or able, but their league has gone from 12 to 8 the past few years (3 leaving this year). They’re decent sized, perfectly situated within the footprint, top 100 in USNWR (for what they’re worth), R2 research university with $700+ million endowment and would bring hoops and football.

Would you take a leap of faith on Howard?

My thoughts here are that Howard gets picked up by CAA, which triggers the fall of the MEAC as they would be down to just:

Coppin St*
UMES*
Morgan St
Delaware St
Norfolk St
NC Central
SC St

Radford would be a nice pickup for non-football.

VMI, the Citadel for all sports.

With JMU leaving (?), I think CAA Football is much stronger than the CAA in general. Villanova, Delaware, New Hampshire and others still field strong teams most years. Richmond has a history.

I don't think Howard jumps. They've got no urgency because they know they have a spot reserved in the NEC if it ever becomes necessary, and supposedly they don't want to be the school that causes the MEAC to come undone.

What are the chances that the AE decides they want football to fall under their umbrella? I know they haven't in the past, but football is where brands get built, and JMU leaving definitely changes the calculus.

(10-21-2021 11:36 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 11:38 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 05:24 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  If the CAA wanted to add teams (and they may eventually choose not to), the choices are either in the Patriot, MEAC, or Monmouth.

I bet we could get Campbell of the Big South

Yea, with absolutely zero inside information, purely looking at things online, it seems like Campbell and Monmouth would be the two likeliest candidates.

This is what happens when fcs football drives a conference. No appeal to me as a UNCW fan whatsoever.

(10-23-2021 01:58 PM)Dukes94 Wrote:  With JMU leaving (?), I think CAA Football is much stronger than the CAA in general. Villanova, Delaware, New Hampshire and others still field strong teams most years. Richmond has a history.

Agreed which is why I think the CAA take a full member that plays football.

(10-23-2021 06:58 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  What are the chances that the AE decides they want football to fall under their umbrella? I know they haven't in the past, but football is where brands get built, and JMU leaving definitely changes the calculus.

The AE could sponsor football tomorrow. It just wouldn’t include Delaware, Villanova, Towson, W&M, Richmond or Elon. And I would bet Stony Brook might even consider dumping the AE to join this CAA flank,

(10-24-2021 12:35 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(10-21-2021 11:36 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 11:38 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 05:24 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  If the CAA wanted to add teams (and they may eventually choose not to), the choices are either in the Patriot, MEAC, or Monmouth.

I bet we could get Campbell of the Big South

Yea, with absolutely zero inside information, purely looking at things online, it seems like Campbell and Monmouth would be the two likeliest candidates.

This is what happens when fcs football drives a conference. No appeal to me as a UNCW fan whatsoever.

UNCW needs to find a place you are happy with your basketball. You’re not going to convince Delaware, W&M, Elon and Towson that we should just all be happy as a basketball league. And I don’t think you really care that much for the basketball only schools of Drexel, Hofstra and Northeastern. So no offense but why should the CAA follow your advice?

I like UNCW but not if their aim is to just try and turn the CAA into a southern basketball conference. Would be great if you would actually sponsor a football program and join the fun!

Nobody seems to have an appetite for the CAA anymore, but what are the other options for all the schools involved?

For the non football schools the options are extremely limited since every conference is trying to add football schools if anything. That leaves UNCW and CofC in a bad spot in the south. And where do NU, Hofstra and Drexel go for a basketball only conference up north? The real problem is a lack of southern based football schools. If the conference moves north, there is no reason for CofC and UNCW to stay and maybe even William and Mary.

If you look at schools on the east coast without football that can bring quality to a conference, and aren't in the A10, there aren't many. Certainly not enough to build a non football conference a level below the A!0. So that leaves adding schools that have and want to improve in FCS football and keep basketball strong.

Here is a CAA conference N/S split that might fly. 14 schools for full membership and football. We have 9 full when JMU leaves and 11 in football. So we need to add three additional schools with football that aren't already in the CAA and two more schools for full membership that are either already in CAA football or are non-football schools.

Full membership:

South - CofC, UNCW, Elon, William and Mary, Campbell(new, football), VMI(new, football), Wofford(new, football)

North - Drexel, Hofstra, NU, Towson, Delaware, Stony Brook(already CAA football), UMBC(non football).

CAA football

South - W&M, Elon, Richmond, Towson, Campbell(full football), VMI(full football), Wofford(full football)
North - Delaware, Albany, Stony Brook, Villanova, Rhode Island, Maine, New Hampshire

This is the best CAA scenario I could come up with for a N/S CAA division setup. It keeps football and basketball strong and brings in good baseball as well. Campbell, Wofford and VMI all step up to a stronger football conference, stay in a strong basketball conference, help with CAA baseball, and stay in a tight geographical area.

That still strikes me as two conferences masquerading as one. If that's the best scenario.... maybe it's just better to blow the whole thing up.

(10-24-2021 09:45 PM)jcohen42 Wrote:  That still strikes me as two conferences masquerading as one. If that's the best scenario.... maybe it's just better to blow the whole thing up.

It is to a certain extent. However, CAA football has been different than CAA full membership for quite some time. This scenario allows for geographical divisions for both football and basketball and keeps both strong. Like ir or not, the CAA non football schools are also the best basketball schools in the CAA as a whole. The proposed CAA North baskeball conference is stronger than any conference the current schools could join. Same for the CAA south. And divisions allow for only seven teams in each division.

The top three teams from the previous year could play each other home and home, creating a 10 team in conference slate. Football could do something similar. Then, the conference basketball tournament could include the top five finishers from each division, assuring a strong tournament slate to further enhance RPI. Also gives an incentive to finish in the top five in each division.

(10-24-2021 08:47 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(10-24-2021 12:35 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(10-21-2021 11:36 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 11:38 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(10-20-2021 05:24 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  If the CAA wanted to add teams (and they may eventually choose not to), the choices are either in the Patriot, MEAC, or Monmouth.

I bet we could get Campbell of the Big South

Yea, with absolutely zero inside information, purely looking at things online, it seems like Campbell and Monmouth would be the two likeliest candidates.

This is what happens when fcs football drives a conference. No appeal to me as a UNCW fan whatsoever.

UNCW needs to find a place you are happy with your basketball. You’re not going to convince Delaware, W&M, Elon and Towson that we should just all be happy as a basketball league. And I don’t think you really care that much for the basketball only schools of Drexel, Hofstra and Northeastern. So no offense but why should the CAA follow your advice?

I like UNCW but not if their aim is to just try and turn the CAA into a southern basketball conference. Would be great if you would actually sponsor a football program and join the fun!

Would William and Mary be happy as an fcs football school in a crappy basketball conference? And if UNCW did add football, the SoCon is likely where we would go. Where will Towson, William and Mary and Delaware land if the CAA blows up that's anywhere close to what the CAA can be in basketball or fcs football? Seems to me a whole lot of your fans are leaning towards basketball as the real future for the Tribe. So why not try to get the best of both worlds?

No one complains about the CAA more than the UNCW fans that I see. Never hear any such complaints from Charleston, Elon, Delaware, Towson, Hofstra or Northeastern, just to name a few. Occasionally you get a complaint from Drexel fans but that had more to do with the tournament being played in Richmond every year.

So why do you stay? Seriously, you should consider going So Con or Big South if the bulk of your fan base feels that way.

(10-25-2021 08:50 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  No one complains about the CAA more than the UNCW fans that I see. Never hear any such complaints from Charleston, Elon, Delaware, Towson, Hofstra or Northeastern, just to name a few. Occasionally you get a complaint from Drexel fans but that had more to do with the tournament being played in Richmond every year.

So why do you stay? Seriously, you should consider going So Con or Big South if the bulk of your fan base feels that way.

UNCW was a founding member of the CAA, that's why. I was a student when it happened, and it happened for a reason. We were already the most southern school at the time, but then ECU and Richmond left the conference leaving the remaining Virginia schools as our closest conference mates. Then ODU, VCU, GMU all left leaving JMU and William and Mary in Virginia. Elon and CofC were added to keep some schools in the south. If we wanted to be in the SoCon or Big South, we could have done that a long time ago. Seriously, what is appealing about the CAA as it is to William and Mary?

Do you have any comment on the expansion I posted with divisions or do you think the CAA will simply replace JMU? And if that happens, would that make sense for William and Mary?

(10-25-2021 08:50 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  No one complains about the CAA more than the UNCW fans that I see. Never hear any such complaints from Charleston, Elon, Delaware, Towson, Hofstra or Northeastern, just to name a few. Occasionally you get a complaint from Drexel fans but that had more to do with the tournament being played in Richmond every year.

So why do you stay? Seriously, you should consider going So Con or Big South if the bulk of your fan base feels that way.

Where are you looking? If you're just looking here, all of those except Northeastern have zero activity. JMU sure did their fair share of complaining about the CAA. With UNCW being the largest non-JMU fanbase on here, and with the CAA being in its current state, can you really blame them?

Is W&M happy with the current state of the CAA? The SoCon is a better basketball conference than the CAA, and without JMU, their football isn't too far behind either. Not to mention, it'll actually have a full-sports member located in Virginia. Is it really better to try to stick it out with the far-flung mess of the CAA?

(10-25-2021 09:16 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 08:50 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  No one complains about the CAA more than the UNCW fans that I see. Never hear any such complaints from Charleston, Elon, Delaware, Towson, Hofstra or Northeastern, just to name a few. Occasionally you get a complaint from Drexel fans but that had more to do with the tournament being played in Richmond every year.

So why do you stay? Seriously, you should consider going So Con or Big South if the bulk of your fan base feels that way.

Where are you looking? If you're just looking here, all of those except Northeastern have zero activity. JMU sure did their fair share of complaining about the CAA. With UNCW being the largest non-JMU fanbase on here, and with the CAA being in its current state, can you really blame them?

Is W&M happy with the current state of the CAA? The SoCon is a better basketball conference than the CAA, and without JMU, their football isn't too far behind either. Not to mention, it'll actually have a full-sports member located in Virginia. Is it really better to try to stick it out with the far-flung mess of the CAA?

They all have their own boards in addition to any comments people make on these boards. You can easily google them. Not sure where you just assume no one is overall pleased with the CAA other than a few UNCW posters and posters whose team isn’t even a full CAA member or affiliate.

I wouldn’t speak for all Tribe fans though I think the consensus is the CAA is the best option out there for W&M. It’s all sports for us. In football it includes some of our biggest rivals, Richmond and Delaware, and the basketball is competitive. I actually like being in a league with good schools up/down the eastern seaboard. For our alums, there are chances to watch us play at least once in Boston, NYC, Philly, Baltimore, Raleigh and SC. We have a lot of alums spread through there. Periodically people might bring up the Patriot or So Con though they are just less attractive overall.

The eastern seaboard is really what the CAA is offering. If you feel that’s “a far flung mess”, I’m not sure any conference would meet your approval. As I said, if you want a more regional conference, go for it. I would assume if your school admins wanted out, they would do something about it. It’s not like UNCW and Drexel don’t have other options. The So Con and MAAC seem to fit your respective issues better.

(10-25-2021 09:16 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 08:50 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  No one complains about the CAA more than the UNCW fans that I see. Never hear any such complaints from Charleston, Elon, Delaware, Towson, Hofstra or Northeastern, just to name a few. Occasionally you get a complaint from Drexel fans but that had more to do with the tournament being played in Richmond every year.

So why do you stay? Seriously, you should consider going So Con or Big South if the bulk of your fan base feels that way.

Where are you looking? If you're just looking here, all of those except Northeastern have zero activity. JMU sure did their fair share of complaining about the CAA. With UNCW being the largest non-JMU fanbase on here, and with the CAA being in its current state, can you really blame them?

Is W&M happy with the current state of the CAA? The SoCon is a better basketball conference than the CAA, and without JMU, their football isn't too far behind either. Not to mention, it'll actually have a full-sports member located in Virginia. Is it really better to try to stick it out with the far-flung mess of the CAA?

With the right additions, and moving to a N/S division setup, I do like keeping the CAA together. If we just add a bunch of schools that bring nothing to the table, then there is no reason.

If we could add Campbell, VMI, Wofford and Stony Brook as full members, then go to a N/S division, it would be a really good setup with good future potential.

(10-25-2021 09:07 AM)82hawk Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 08:50 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  No one complains about the CAA more than the UNCW fans that I see. Never hear any such complaints from Charleston, Elon, Delaware, Towson, Hofstra or Northeastern, just to name a few. Occasionally you get a complaint from Drexel fans but that had more to do with the tournament being played in Richmond every year.

So why do you stay? Seriously, you should consider going So Con or Big South if the bulk of your fan base feels that way.

UNCW was a founding member of the CAA, that's why. I was a student when it happened, and it happened for a reason. We were already the most southern school at the time, but then ECU and Richmond left the conference leaving the remaining Virginia schools as our closest conference mates. Then ODU, VCU, GMU all left leaving JMU and William and Mary in Virginia. Elon and CofC were added to keep some schools in the south. If we wanted to be in the SoCon or Big South, we could have done that a long time ago. Seriously, what is appealing about the CAA as it is to William and Mary?

Do you have any comment on the expansion I posted with divisions or do you think the CAA will simply replace JMU? And if that happens, would that make sense for William and Mary?

I get the history but you don’t seem the least bit happy with it anymore. I get it, things change and you don’t offer football. If you don’t like it, then go for another option.

On a replacement, I think the CAA will have a number of options to look at. I would prefer they bring in a decent academic member that plays football from anywhere between Boston and Charleston SC. There are lists everywhere and any preferences I would list would just be personal. I tend to favor more traditional schools with some decent history in both sports.

(10-25-2021 09:57 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 09:16 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  

(10-25-2021 08:50 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  No one complains about the CAA more than the UNCW fans that I see. Never hear any such complaints from Charleston, Elon, Delaware, Towson, Hofstra or Northeastern, just to name a few. Occasionally you get a complaint from Drexel fans but that had more to do with the tournament being played in Richmond every year.

So why do you stay? Seriously, you should consider going So Con or Big South if the bulk of your fan base feels that way.

Where are you looking? If you're just looking here, all of those except Northeastern have zero activity. JMU sure did their fair share of complaining about the CAA. With UNCW being the largest non-JMU fanbase on here, and with the CAA being in its current state, can you really blame them?

Is W&M happy with the current state of the CAA? The SoCon is a better basketball conference than the CAA, and without JMU, their football isn't too far behind either. Not to mention, it'll actually have a full-sports member located in Virginia. Is it really better to try to stick it out with the far-flung mess of the CAA?

They all have their own boards in addition to any comments people make on these boards. You can easily google them. Not sure where you just assume no one is overall pleased with the CAA other than a few UNCW posters and posters whose team isn’t even a full CAA member or affiliate.

I wouldn’t speak for all Tribe fans though I think the consensus is the CAA is the best option out there for W&M. It’s all sports for us. In football it includes some of our biggest rivals, Richmond and Delaware, and the basketball is competitive. I actually like being in a league with good schools up/down the eastern seaboard. For our alums, there are chances to watch us play at least once in Boston, NYC, Philly, Baltimore, Raleigh and SC. We have a lot of alums spread through there. Periodically people might bring up the Patriot or So Con though they are just less attractive overall.

The eastern seaboard is really what the CAA is offering. If you feel that’s “a far flung mess”, I’m not sure any conference would meet your approval. As I said, if you want a more regional conference, go for it. I would assume if your school admins wanted out, they would do something about it. It’s not like UNCW and Drexel don’t have other options. The So Con and MAAC seem to fit your respective issues better.

I am of the opinion that Drexel should aim to rejoin the America East, but I control exactly 0% of the athletic department's decision-making.