(11-10-2021 08:10 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 11:38 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 11:10 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 08:54 AM)pablowow Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 08:51 AM)BattleCougarRed_88 Wrote:  Just curious; has Rice ever entertained the thought of buying South Texas College of Law and make them part of their university to solve the dilemma of them not having a law school or create their own school of law?

Makes a lot of sense…

Yes... A&M iirc beat us to it.... plus, they aren't especially highly regarded so it wouldn't give the initial bump we were looking for. We instead offered $1byn plus all debt assumption for Baylor College of Medicine... and although it shares the name, most of the board is NOT Baylor people. The sale requires unanimous consent though and the Baylor members blocked it.

The better idea might be to start our own and find a niche like IP or something and try and dominate that area as we did our business school with entrepreneurship

A&M had an agreement with STCL to offer an A&M Law degree back in the day, but it was killed by the legislature and then A&M worked a deal with them for enrollment for A&M students that managed to escape the wrath of the legislature

A&M later on ended up buying Texas Wesleyan College of Law for $50 million and was going to rent their building, but then ended up paying more to buy the building as well

The Rice deal with Baylor College of Medicine was killed by Rice....at the time BCM had built a fancy new building, but when the stock market crashed they were short on cash and had to finish the shell of the building and some of the interior and then stop so they could shore up their endowment and raise more cash

Rice was concerned about the debt, the hit to the endowment, and the annual operating cost.....after Rice killed the deal the BCM raised cash and shored up their endowment while talking with BU, but decided to remain independent of BU as well

Law schools are dead ends right now I doubt Rice has any interest in STCL now even if they did in the past

Rice certainly had hesitancy, but the offer was extended. The BCM Board, more precisely the Baylor members of the Board of BCM, voted down the deal presented.

Rice did not attempt to redo the deal presented to try and sway them.

it has been a while since I read up on any of it, but what I remembered is that was Rice was the one to say no at the end

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010...erger-rice

reading this article we could both be somewhat right

Rice made an offer (based on BCM getting an agreement with an adult hospital) and BCM was unable to make a deal with Methodist or St. Lukes so Rice was not interested in moving forward.....even with one saying they would discuss an agreement after a merger

BCM now does have a deal with St. Lukes

I would prefer to see BCM remain independent or to merge back with BU, but I would also wish that Rice could start their own medical school, but that would probably take $1 billion or so to do so probably not workable

(11-10-2021 01:25 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(11-10-2021 08:10 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 11:38 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 11:10 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 08:54 AM)pablowow Wrote:  Makes a lot of sense…

Yes... A&M iirc beat us to it.... plus, they aren't especially highly regarded so it wouldn't give the initial bump we were looking for. We instead offered $1byn plus all debt assumption for Baylor College of Medicine... and although it shares the name, most of the board is NOT Baylor people. The sale requires unanimous consent though and the Baylor members blocked it.

The better idea might be to start our own and find a niche like IP or something and try and dominate that area as we did our business school with entrepreneurship

A&M had an agreement with STCL to offer an A&M Law degree back in the day, but it was killed by the legislature and then A&M worked a deal with them for enrollment for A&M students that managed to escape the wrath of the legislature

A&M later on ended up buying Texas Wesleyan College of Law for $50 million and was going to rent their building, but then ended up paying more to buy the building as well

The Rice deal with Baylor College of Medicine was killed by Rice....at the time BCM had built a fancy new building, but when the stock market crashed they were short on cash and had to finish the shell of the building and some of the interior and then stop so they could shore up their endowment and raise more cash

Rice was concerned about the debt, the hit to the endowment, and the annual operating cost.....after Rice killed the deal the BCM raised cash and shored up their endowment while talking with BU, but decided to remain independent of BU as well

Law schools are dead ends right now I doubt Rice has any interest in STCL now even if they did in the past

Rice certainly had hesitancy, but the offer was extended. The BCM Board, more precisely the Baylor members of the Board of BCM, voted down the deal presented.

Rice did not attempt to redo the deal presented to try and sway them.

it has been a while since I read up on any of it, but what I remembered is that was Rice was the one to say no at the end

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010...erger-rice

reading this article we could both be somewhat right

Rice made an offer (based on BCM getting an agreement with an adult hospital) and BCM was unable to make a deal with Methodist or St. Lukes so Rice was not interested in moving forward.....even with one saying they would discuss an agreement after a merger

BCM now does have a deal with St. Lukes

I would prefer to see BCM remain independent or to merge back with BU, but I would also wish that Rice could start their own medical school, but that would probably take $1 billion or so to do so probably not workable

I have had the advantage of about a half hour discussion on the topic with people who were Rice trustees during that time ---

not that I pal around with them (or many in that circle), but I found myself at an 'away from the crowd' weekend stay around a firepit with them. Naturally, being Rice alums around a fire pit -- we geeked out and talked Rice stuff.

Rice probably cannot start one from scratch. My understanding is that that would ruin a very close relationship with the Med Center (literally right across the street) that Rice has fostered for 60+ years.

Rice is stuck between a rock and a hard place to 'up their game' -- I would hazard that both a medical school and a law school from scratch are off the table (for different reasons), and the ability to 'step into' a medical school that is already running and nearby (i.e. the BCM deal) was probably a once in a lifetime opportunity.

(11-10-2021 08:04 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Speaking of the venue, when in the heck are you gonna come visit, Ham? (wink)

I sent you a PM. Did you get it?? I've lost my contacts (technology issues)

(11-10-2021 01:25 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  I would prefer to see BCM remain independent or to merge back with BU, but I would also wish that Rice could start their own medical school, but that would probably take $1 billion or so to do so probably not workable

Since we offered $1byn a few years ago (back when that was real money lol) for BCM, its not the dollar amount that is unworkable. I think we've added 2-3byn to our endowment since then. It's the cost and time of turning that new program into an asset in terms of rankings. You don't simply become a top tier medical school, even if you are 'Rice'. As was mentioned, Jones took 20+ years and it was spurred by a focus on a single niche arena (entrepreneurship) as a means of differentiation vs the established schools. I don't know how/if you could do that with a medical school... so we have the BRC, which has a lot of the advantages without the expense and liability of a 'teaching hospital' which was part of the big hurdle for the BCM acquisition.

BCM probably wouldn't want to be back as part of Baylor. Baylor is a fine school, but BCM is better regarded. As long as they can raise money, they would be fine all alone.

I agree with whomever said law schools were not a great idea. I think we will see expansion of our 'leadership' graduate program instead... and continued focuses on music, public policy and business (we recently added an undergrad business degree)

As a side note, Rice will announce a new president today.

https://news.rice.edu/news/2021/rice-uni...-president

(11-11-2021 09:03 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  As a side note, Rice will announce a new president today.

https://news.rice.edu/news/2021/rice-uni...-president

How long would it take Rice to replace the "UH dream" of being object
the PAC-14 incursion into Texas?

(11-11-2021 02:34 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 09:03 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  As a side note, Rice will announce a new president today.

https://news.rice.edu/news/2021/rice-uni...-president

How long would it take Rice to replace the "UH dream" of being object
the PCA-14 incursion into Texas?

New President is Reggie Deroches... former Provost. This is potentially HUGE for Rice Athletics. His daughter is on the soccer team. First non-white male. First immigrant President of Rice.

Rice is a better fit for the B1G or PAC than UH. UH is better suited to the SEC than either of those... but those are pipe dreams for us. We'd need to dominate the AAC for a while before we could even TALK about having enough fans to warrant that... and at this point, we aren't even competitive in CUSA... so.... sure, it's on the radar I suppose... but its a very faint blip at the edge of the screen.

(11-11-2021 04:06 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 02:34 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 09:03 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  As a side note, Rice will announce a new president today.

https://news.rice.edu/news/2021/rice-uni...-president

How long would it take Rice to replace the "UH dream" of being object
the PAC-14 incursion into Texas?

New President is Reggie Deroches... former Provost. This is potentially HUGE for Rice Athletics. His daughter is on the soccer team. First non-white male. First immigrant President of Rice.

Rice is a better fit for the B1G or PAC than UH. UH is better suited to the SEC than either of those... but those are pipe dreams for us. We'd need to dominate the AAC for a while before we could even TALK about having enough fans to warrant that... and at this point, we aren't even competitive in CUSA... so.... sure, it's on the radar I suppose... but its a very faint blip at the edge of the screen.

(11-10-2021 03:20 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(11-10-2021 01:25 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  I would prefer to see BCM remain independent or to merge back with BU, but I would also wish that Rice could start their own medical school, but that would probably take $1 billion or so to do so probably not workable

Since we offered $1byn a few years ago (back when that was real money lol) for BCM, its not the dollar amount that is unworkable. I think we've added 2-3byn to our endowment since then. It's the cost and time of turning that new program into an asset in terms of rankings. You don't simply become a top tier medical school, even if you are 'Rice'. As was mentioned, Jones took 20+ years and it was spurred by a focus on a single niche arena (entrepreneurship) as a means of differentiation vs the established schools. I don't know how/if you could do that with a medical school... so we have the BRC, which has a lot of the advantages without the expense and liability of a 'teaching hospital' which was part of the big hurdle for the BCM acquisition.

BCM probably wouldn't want to be back as part of Baylor. Baylor is a fine school, but BCM is better regarded. As long as they can raise money, they would be fine all alone.

I agree with whomever said law schools were not a great idea. I think we will see expansion of our 'leadership' graduate program instead... and continued focuses on music, public policy and business (we recently added an undergrad business degree)

the funny thing to me is the idea of "buying" a non-profit school or college

who gets the cash?......well the college that is being bought and merged into the other so there is just an electronic transfer of dollars that is meaningless

it would be the same in the case of STCL.......it is not like there are stockholders or investors or former students get a distribution check

Rice (or whomever) just writes a check to someone they are then going to own and control so they own and control the money they just spent

in the case of A&M and Texas Wesleyan that is different since the main university stayed as an entity and took the money to invest in those main campus programs (which is why they sold the law school in the first place to invest in the main university and none too soon on that sale considering what happened to the law school and legal market not long after)

(11-09-2021 02:47 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 01:14 PM)PSCNiner Wrote:  

(11-01-2021 03:29 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(11-01-2021 03:12 PM)Joprior23 Wrote:  Rice is the best add if they commit financially, and it’s not close.

Yup, just them deciding they are going to be serious about it pushes them past UAB. UTSA, UNT could turn out to be solid bets, FAU a lil below them. Charlotte is kind of the one that seems to just be a middle road add. UAB and Rice (with an athletic commitment) were the super easy adds, they come with academics and history with current members, as well as a geographic fit. UNT and UTSA cut off everybody but UTEP and Texas State from the MW and are probably the best bets of up and coming schools with large metro base and alum numbers.

Wow, what an un-educated comment. You just posted about how Rice is doing so great by trying to raise $100m for athletics, but Charlotte is a "middle of the road" add------Charlotte is in the middle of a $200m fund-raising campaign for athletic facilities. We had raised ~$50m well before Covid even hit.

I want you to look up how many pros in the four major sports are from Charlotte, then look at Houston. I want you to compare your current facilities to Rice. Then I want you to realize your 200m fund raising is great, but Rice is putting up 2B total and 100m of that is athletics. Charlotte is maxing out with its 200m and trying to catch up, in a smaller city, with less depth in talent, while Rice just kind of decided to pay attention. There is the difference

Actually, its clear that you are the one who needs to look closer. I'm guessing you have zero clue about Charlotte, the U or the city. Neither is lacking for much of anything and certainly doesn't need to "catch up" at all. Also, what part of $200M vs. $100M for athletics do you not understand?

(11-11-2021 02:34 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 09:03 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  As a side note, Rice will announce a new president today.

https://news.rice.edu/news/2021/rice-uni...-president

How long would it take Rice to replace the "UH dream" of being object
the PAC-14 incursion into Texas?

I would love to bring UH along as our travel partner to P12, since apparently UT is now off the table.

However they have to promise to be on their *very best behavior* and not embarrass everyone like that time we snuck them in to the SWC.

Really, taking SMU makes more sense for P12 though.

But yeah like Ham said… nothing like that is happening anytime soon. We got a lot of hard work ahead of us.

But today is another good day for Rice and for Rice Athletics.

(11-11-2021 08:31 PM)PSCNiner Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 02:47 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(11-09-2021 01:14 PM)PSCNiner Wrote:  

(11-01-2021 03:29 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(11-01-2021 03:12 PM)Joprior23 Wrote:  Rice is the best add if they commit financially, and it’s not close.

Yup, just them deciding they are going to be serious about it pushes them past UAB. UTSA, UNT could turn out to be solid bets, FAU a lil below them. Charlotte is kind of the one that seems to just be a middle road add. UAB and Rice (with an athletic commitment) were the super easy adds, they come with academics and history with current members, as well as a geographic fit. UNT and UTSA cut off everybody but UTEP and Texas State from the MW and are probably the best bets of up and coming schools with large metro base and alum numbers.

Wow, what an un-educated comment. You just posted about how Rice is doing so great by trying to raise $100m for athletics, but Charlotte is a "middle of the road" add------Charlotte is in the middle of a $200m fund-raising campaign for athletic facilities. We had raised ~$50m well before Covid even hit.

I want you to look up how many pros in the four major sports are from Charlotte, then look at Houston. I want you to compare your current facilities to Rice. Then I want you to realize your 200m fund raising is great, but Rice is putting up 2B total and 100m of that is athletics. Charlotte is maxing out with its 200m and trying to catch up, in a smaller city, with less depth in talent, while Rice just kind of decided to pay attention. There is the difference

Actually, its clear that you are the one who needs to look closer. I'm guessing you have zero clue about Charlotte, the U or the city. Neither is lacking for much of anything and certainly doesn't need to "catch up" at all. Also, what part of $200M vs. $100M for athletics do you not understand?

Go find a database and look up NFL players hometowns. Trust me Houston and Charlotte are not the same. A brand new FBS program might require some money just to catch up to a program with NY6 bowls and a stadium that has hosted a superbowl. UNC-Charlotte and Rice are not the same.

200M is what you have spent right now. Rice was playing big boy sports before you existed and their 100M is going on top of a good 50 year head start and who knows how much in todays dollars of Charlotte. You still got a ways to go to catch up and that 200m is maxing your capabilities, that 100m was an accidental after thought by Rice and isn't even them really trying. That's the difference, oh .....and several million people, the economic sponsorship opportunities, and NIL capabilities, facilities, history, etc, etc.

So good job. But yeah Rice is the one who any effort made will have the biggest upside and no it isn't close.

(11-11-2021 08:44 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 02:34 PM)GoOwls111 Wrote:  

(11-11-2021 09:03 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  As a side note, Rice will announce a new president today.

https://news.rice.edu/news/2021/rice-uni...-president

How long would it take Rice to replace the "UH dream" of being object
the PAC-14 incursion into Texas?

I would love to bring UH along as our travel partner to P12, since apparently UT is now off the table.

However they have to promise to be on their *very best behavior* and not embarrass everyone like that time we snuck them in to the SWC.

Really, taking SMU makes more sense for P12 though.

But yeah like Ham said… nothing like that is happening anytime soon. We got a lot of hard work ahead of us.

But today is another good day for Rice and for Rice Athletics.

I'll be rooting for Rice in the years ahead, and I wonder if they're really planning to put more effort into collegiate sports, or if it was just something they said they hope to do.

No one necessarily expects them to become a strong FB and BB program, but if they could be strong in FB OR BB, that would be a plus for their new conference, which is taking a hit and needs to get a boost from somewhere.

In football - to be able to do something like what Tulane has done, playing in a bowl game every year or two - or (not "and" - - FB "or" MBB would be great).

or in basketball - to finish over .500 most seasons and play in any of the post-season tournaments once every 2-4 years, even if its just the CIT.

If Rice could do either of those things, or some mixture (one bowl game and one CBI or CIT tournament bid every five years or twice per decade), it would be a great help to the conference.

(11-11-2021 07:42 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  the funny thing to me is the idea of "buying" a non-profit school or college

who gets the cash?......well the college that is being bought and merged into the other so there is just an electronic transfer of dollars that is meaningless

it would be the same in the case of STCL.......it is not like there are stockholders or investors or former students get a distribution check

Rice (or whomever) just writes a check to someone they are then going to own and control so they own and control the money they just spent

in the case of A&M and Texas Wesleyan that is different since the main university stayed as an entity and took the money to invest in those main campus programs (which is why they sold the law school in the first place to invest in the main university and none too soon on that sale considering what happened to the law school and legal market not long after)

Well, if nobody gets the cash, why don't we just spend a gajillion dollars??

The cash IS transferred from one entity to another. Typically it eliminates debts and makes investments in new initiatives.... so the cash goes to other entities, depending on what debts or investments are made... and the 'asset' becomes intrinsically more valuable. Yes, Rice would own the asset, but that doesn't mean that the asset isn't enhanced by the elimination of debt and/or purchase of additional assets that the entity itself couldn't justify or cover.

(11-12-2021 02:16 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  I'll be rooting for Rice in the years ahead, and I wonder if they're really planning to put more effort into collegiate sports, or if it was just something they said they hope to do.

No one necessarily expects them to become a strong FB and BB program, but if they could be strong in FB OR BB, that would be a plus for their new conference, which is taking a hit and needs to get a boost from somewhere.

In football - to be able to do something like what Tulane has done, playing in a bowl game every year or two - or (not "and" - - FB "or" MBB would be great).

or in basketball - to finish over .500 most seasons and play in any of the post-season tournaments once every 2-4 years, even if its just the CIT.

If Rice could do either of those things, or some mixture (one bowl game and one CBI or CIT tournament bid every five years or twice per decade), it would be a great help to the conference.

Rice should do well in non-rev sports. The value of the Rice scholarship is matched in few places... and there isn't generally a big pro contract awaiting them. For rev sports including baseball, it is tougher for a variety of reasons. Most especially that some schools (especially the really big dogs) don't really have the intention of graduating all of their players... They will turn pro early or just do enough to stay eligible, which is easier to do at a large state school with hundreds of classes and thousands of students than it is at a smaller school with fewer classes and a (last I checked) 8:1 student/teacher ratio. Lots of classes literally have 5 people in them. Pretty hard to 'hide' in there.... or skip classes, use a tutor and still do okay.

That said, we also have value as a destination for grad transfers... guys who maybe went p5 at an 'okay' academic school and are good, but not a sure-fire NFL or NBA talent and might like to have that Rice graduate degree. We're working hard on that. Again, the size is an issue.... but we're working on it.

Our goal I'm sure is to compete for championships. Our expenses were near the top of CUSA and I'd expect that we'd be financially competitive in AAC as well. We have to be. We just need to do a better job of hiring, firing and retaining coaches in MBB and FB. IMO, we've been 'too nice'.

This is the Rice I remember.

https://www.footballxos.com/download/ric...-hatfield/

(11-21-2021 03:26 PM)old salt Wrote:  This is the Rice I remember.

https://www.footballxos.com/download/ric...-hatfield/

I remember those Rice teams as well. Tulane and Rice played quite often when Ken Hatfied was their coach. Those games were usually close, decided by a few points either way, and were doozies.