If WVU, Louisville, Syracuse and Pittsburgh didn't join ACC and remained in the Big East or American Athletic now, will we remain the best College Basketball Conference and remain a P5 Conference?

As a UCF fan, if the old Big East didn't fall apart, will the current American + old Big East Programs I mentioned be a better conference than the new Big 12?

Should UCF pay 10M in exit fees and join the new Big 12 then?

Cincy's mission ends tonight. It is obvious we still have lots of work to do.

To be honest, I am not a big fan of the new Big 12 and want American to stay intact.

But it is what it is. I am just thinking: If the Old Big East didn't fall apart

(12-31-2021 07:46 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  If WVU, Louisville, Syracuse and Pittsburgh didn't join ACC and remained in the Big East or American Athletic now, will we remain the best College Basketball Conference and remain a P5 Conference?

As a UCF fan, if the old Big East didn't fall apart, will the new American be a better conference than the new Big 12?

Should UCF pay 10M in exit fees and join the new Big 12 then?

Cincy's mission ends tonight. It is obvious we still have lots of work to do.

To be honest, I am not a big fan of the new Big 12 and want American to stay intact.

But it is what it is. I am just thinking: If the Old Big East didn't fall apart

The new Big 12 will be one of the best if not best basketball conferences.

(12-31-2021 07:46 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  If WVU, Louisville, Syracuse and Pittsburgh didn't join ACC and remained in the Big East or American Athletic now, will we remain the best College Basketball Conference and remain a P5 Conference?

As a UCF fan, if the old Big East didn't fall apart, will the new American be a better conference than the new Big 12?

If you're talking about the "new American" (as in the AAC with the 6 incoming CUSA teams), I would say no, it wouldn't be a better conference than the new Big 12, even if all the old Big East teams were to rejoin the conference, and even if OU and UT were to be in the SEC.

.

However, if you're asking if the current American would be stronger if the old Big East teams were to join the current American teams, to answer this, we would have to go back in time to 2011, before WVU joined the Big 12.

Big 12:..............Big East:............Big East FB+
........................(FB & MBB).........AAC teams

Baylor................Cincinnati...........Cincinnati
Iowa St..............Connecticut........Connecticut
Kansas...............Louisville............Louisville
Kansas St...........Pittsburgh..........Pittsburgh
Missouri.............Providence..........SMU
Oklahoma...........Syracuse............Syracuse
Oklahoma St.......Seton Hall..........Wichita State
Texas.................WVU..................WVU
Texas A&M..........Villanova............Houston
Texas Tech..........St. John's...........Memphis
.........................Marquette..........UCF
.........................Rutgers.............Rutgers
.........................DePaul..............Temple
.........................Georgetown.......Tulsa
.........................Notre Dame.......Tulane
.........................USF...................USF
.................................................ECU


The top 10 (2011) Big East and combined Big East/AAC teams would be very competitive with today's Big 12, but the Big 12 would probably be considered strongest, from top to bottom.


New Big 12:........Big East:............New AAC
........................(FB & MBB).........+ BE FB teams

Houston.............WVU..................WVU
Kansas...............Louisville............Louisville
Kansas St...........Pittsburgh..........Pittsburgh
Texas Tech..........St. John's...........Memphis
Cincinnati...........Syracuse............Syracuse
Baylor................Cincinnati...........Wichita State
Iowa St..............Connecticut........Connecticut
Oklahoma St.......Seton Hall..........SMU
Texas A&M..........Villanova............Tulane
Missouri.............Providence..........Temple
UCF....................Marquette..........UAB
BYU...................Rutgers.............Rutgers
.........................DePaul..............Rice
.........................Georgetown.......Tulsa
.........................USF...................USF
.........................Notre Dame.......North Texas
.................................................ECU
.................................................UTSA
.................................................Charlotte
.................................................FAU

The new Big 12 would probably be strongest from top to bottom (since 2011 BE had DePaul, Rutgers, & USF), and the new AAC with the old BE FB teams would be the weakest and least competitive (due to the 6-7 lowest quality BB programs in the new American).

(12-31-2021 08:13 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(12-31-2021 07:46 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  If WVU, Louisville, Syracuse and Pittsburgh didn't join ACC and remained in the Big East or American Athletic now, will we remain the best College Basketball Conference and remain a P5 Conference?

As a UCF fan, if the old Big East didn't fall apart, will the new American be a better conference than the new Big 12?

If you're talking about the "new American" (as in the AAC with the 6 incoming CUSA teams), I would say no, it wouldn't be a better conference than the new Big 12, even if all the old Big East teams were to rejoin the conference, and even if OU and UT were to be in the SEC.



.

However, if you're asking if the current American would be stronger if the old Big East teams were to join the current American teams, to answer this, we would have to go back in time to 2011, before WVU joined the Big 12.

Big 12:..............Big East:............Big East FB+
........................(FB & MBB).........AAC teams

Baylor................Cincinnati...........Cincinnati
Iowa St..............Connecticut........Connecticut
Kansas...............Louisville............Louisville
Kansas St...........Pittsburgh..........Pittsburgh
Missouri.............Providence..........SMU
Oklahoma...........Syracuse............Syracuse
Oklahoma St.......Seton Hall..........Wichita State
Texas.................WVU..................WVU
Texas A&M..........Villanova............Houston
Texas Tech..........St. John's...........Memphis
.........................Marquette..........UCF
.........................Rutgers.............Rutgers
.........................DePaul..............Temple
.........................Georgetown.......Tulsa
.........................Notre Dame.......Tulane
.........................USF...................USF
.................................................ECU


The top 10 (2011) Big East and combined Big East/AAC teams would be very competitive with today's Big 12, but the Big 12 would probably be considered strongest, from top to bottom.


New Big 12:........Big East:............New AAC
........................(FB & MBB).........+ BE FB teams

Houston.............WVU..................WVU
Kansas...............Louisville............Louisville
Kansas St...........Pittsburgh..........Pittsburgh
Texas Tech..........St. John's...........Memphis
Cincinnati...........Syracuse............Syracuse
Baylor................Cincinnati...........Wichita State
Iowa St..............Connecticut........Connecticut
Oklahoma St.......Seton Hall..........SMU
Texas A&M..........Villanova............Tulane
Missouri.............Providence..........Temple
UCF....................Marquette..........UAB
BYU...................Rutgers.............Rutgers
.........................DePaul..............Rice
.........................Georgetown.......Tulsa
.........................USF...................USF
.........................Notre Dame.......North Texas
.................................................ECU
.................................................UTSA
.................................................Charlotte
.................................................FAU

The new Big 12 would probably be strongest from top to bottom (since 2011 BE had DePaul, Rutgers, & USF), and the new AAC with the old BE FB teams would be the weakest and least competitive (due to the 6-7 lowest quality BB programs in the new American).

I am sorry. I have to make it clear. I am not talking about the new 6 members that are going to join.

I am talking the Big East 2011 when UCF, SMU, Houston, Memphis joined before WVU, Louisville, Syracuse and Pitts left. And if they didn't join the ACC.

Syracuse
Pitts
Louisville
WVU
UCF
USF
Temple
Tulane
Memphis
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
ECU
Cincy

Could this conference be better than the New Big 12 that is with UCF, Houston, and Cincy?

The whole reason I brought this up is the fact that my school is on verge of joining Big 12 and today everyone saw how Cincy struggled with Alabama. That is a lot of work to do as we are in the same conference. But Cincy has made history in American.

I just came up with this thinking of the old Big East as the NO.1 College Basketball Conference in the country even without the Catholic 7

I know this is just hypothetical thinking. But as a fan, I like it.

(12-31-2021 08:54 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  

(12-31-2021 08:13 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(12-31-2021 07:46 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  If WVU, Louisville, Syracuse and Pittsburgh didn't join ACC and remained in the Big East or American Athletic now, will we remain the best College Basketball Conference and remain a P5 Conference?

As a UCF fan, if the old Big East didn't fall apart, will the new American be a better conference than the new Big 12?

If you're talking about the "new American" (as in the AAC with the 6 incoming CUSA teams), I would say no, it wouldn't be a better conference than the new Big 12, even if all the old Big East teams were to rejoin the conference, and even if OU and UT were to be in the SEC.



.

However, if you're asking if the current American would be stronger if the old Big East teams were to join the current American teams, to answer this, we would have to go back in time to 2011, before WVU joined the Big 12.

Big 12:..............Big East:............Big East FB+
........................(FB & MBB).........AAC teams

Baylor................Cincinnati...........Cincinnati
Iowa St..............Connecticut........Connecticut
Kansas...............Louisville............Louisville
Kansas St...........Pittsburgh..........Pittsburgh
Missouri.............Providence..........SMU
Oklahoma...........Syracuse............Syracuse
Oklahoma St.......Seton Hall..........Wichita State
Texas.................WVU..................WVU
Texas A&M..........Villanova............Houston
Texas Tech..........St. John's...........Memphis
.........................Marquette..........UCF
.........................Rutgers.............Rutgers
.........................DePaul..............Temple
.........................Georgetown.......Tulsa
.........................Notre Dame.......Tulane
.........................USF...................USF
.................................................ECU


The top 10 (2011) Big East and combined Big East/AAC teams would be very competitive with today's Big 12, but the Big 12 would probably be considered strongest, from top to bottom.


New Big 12:........Big East:............New AAC
........................(FB & MBB).........+ BE FB teams

Houston.............WVU..................WVU
Kansas...............Louisville............Louisville
Kansas St...........Pittsburgh..........Pittsburgh
Texas Tech..........St. John's...........Memphis
Cincinnati...........Syracuse............Syracuse
Baylor................Cincinnati...........Wichita State
Iowa St..............Connecticut........Connecticut
Oklahoma St.......Seton Hall..........SMU
Texas A&M..........Villanova............Tulane
Missouri.............Providence..........Temple
UCF....................Marquette..........UAB
BYU...................Rutgers.............Rutgers
.........................DePaul..............Rice
.........................Georgetown.......Tulsa
.........................USF...................USF
.........................Notre Dame.......North Texas
.................................................ECU
.................................................UTSA
.................................................Charlotte
.................................................FAU

The new Big 12 would probably be strongest from top to bottom (since 2011 BE had DePaul, Rutgers, & USF), and the new AAC with the old BE FB teams would be the weakest and least competitive (due to the 6-7 lowest quality BB programs in the new American).

I am sorry. I have to make it clear. I am not talking about the new 6 members that are going to join.

I am talking the Big East 2011 when UCF, SMU, Houston, Memphis joined before WVU, Louisville, Syracuse and Pitts left. And if they didn't join the ACC.

Syracuse
Pitts
Louisville
WVU
UCF
USF
Temple
Tulane
Memphis
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
ECU
Cincy

Could this conference be better than the New Big 12 that is with UCF, Houston, and Cincy?

The whole reason I brought this up is the fact that my school is on verge of joining Big 12 and today everyone saw how Cincy struggled with Alabama. That is a lot of work to do as we are in the same conference. But Cincy has made history in American.

I just came up with this thinking of the old Big East as the NO.1 College Basketball Conference in the country even without the Catholic 7

I know this is just hypothetical thinking. But as a fan, I like it.

Rearranging these a bit...

Houston
Cincy
Syracuse
Pitts
Louisville
WVU
UCF
Memphis
SMU
Tulsa
Temple
ECU
...................
Tulane
USF

The main comparison would be with the 12 teams above the dotted line.

If we're going on kenpom, NET, or Massey Composite rankings, I think the New Big 12 would come out ahead, because all 10 Big 12 teams are currently ranked #85th or higher in the Massey Composite.

(12-31-2021 08:54 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  

(12-31-2021 08:13 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(12-31-2021 07:46 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  If WVU, Louisville, Syracuse and Pittsburgh didn't join ACC and remained in the Big East or American Athletic now, will we remain the best College Basketball Conference and remain a P5 Conference?

As a UCF fan, if the old Big East didn't fall apart, will the new American be a better conference than the new Big 12?

If you're talking about the "new American" (as in the AAC with the 6 incoming CUSA teams), I would say no, it wouldn't be a better conference than the new Big 12, even if all the old Big East teams were to rejoin the conference, and even if OU and UT were to be in the SEC.



.

However, if you're asking if the current American would be stronger if the old Big East teams were to join the current American teams, to answer this, we would have to go back in time to 2011, before WVU joined the Big 12.

Big 12:..............Big East:............Big East FB+
........................(FB & MBB).........AAC teams

Baylor................Cincinnati...........Cincinnati
Iowa St..............Connecticut........Connecticut
Kansas...............Louisville............Louisville
Kansas St...........Pittsburgh..........Pittsburgh
Missouri.............Providence..........SMU
Oklahoma...........Syracuse............Syracuse
Oklahoma St.......Seton Hall..........Wichita State
Texas.................WVU..................WVU
Texas A&M..........Villanova............Houston
Texas Tech..........St. John's...........Memphis
.........................Marquette..........UCF
.........................Rutgers.............Rutgers
.........................DePaul..............Temple
.........................Georgetown.......Tulsa
.........................Notre Dame.......Tulane
.........................USF...................USF
.................................................ECU


The top 10 (2011) Big East and combined Big East/AAC teams would be very competitive with today's Big 12, but the Big 12 would probably be considered strongest, from top to bottom.


New Big 12:........Big East:............New AAC
........................(FB & MBB).........+ BE FB teams

Houston.............WVU..................WVU
Kansas...............Louisville............Louisville
Kansas St...........Pittsburgh..........Pittsburgh
Texas Tech..........St. John's...........Memphis
Cincinnati...........Syracuse............Syracuse
Baylor................Cincinnati...........Wichita State
Iowa St..............Connecticut........Connecticut
Oklahoma St.......Seton Hall..........SMU
Texas A&M..........Villanova............Tulane
Missouri.............Providence..........Temple
UCF....................Marquette..........UAB
BYU...................Rutgers.............Rutgers
.........................DePaul..............Rice
.........................Georgetown.......Tulsa
.........................USF...................USF
.........................Notre Dame.......North Texas
.................................................ECU
.................................................UTSA
.................................................Charlotte
.................................................FAU

The new Big 12 would probably be strongest from top to bottom (since 2011 BE had DePaul, Rutgers, & USF), and the new AAC with the old BE FB teams would be the weakest and least competitive (due to the 6-7 lowest quality BB programs in the new American).

I am sorry. I have to make it clear. I am not talking about the new 6 members that are going to join.

I am talking the Big East 2011 when UCF, SMU, Houston, Memphis joined before WVU, Louisville, Syracuse and Pitts left. And if they didn't join the ACC.

Syracuse
Pitts
Louisville
WVU
UCF
USF
Temple
Tulane
Memphis
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
ECU
Cincy

Could this conference be better than the New Big 12 that is with UCF, Houston, and Cincy?

The whole reason I brought this up is the fact that my school is on verge of joining Big 12 and today everyone saw how Cincy struggled with Alabama. That is a lot of work to do as we are in the same conference. But Cincy has made history in American.

I just came up with this thinking of the old Big East as the NO.1 College Basketball Conference in the country even without the Catholic 7

I know this is just hypothetical thinking. But as a fan, I like it.

Gonna nitpick a little. That lineup never really existed, even as a potential lineup. The CUSA and MWC callups were in response to Pitt and Syracuse announcing their move in September of 2011. TCU then reversed course from the Big East to Big 12 in October as a result and WVU also accepted the Big 12 invite. The Big East didn't invite Boise, SDSU, UCF, SMU, and Houston until December 2011. The only Big East teams that announced moves after the CUSA/MWC wave were Rutgers and Louisville in late 2012.

(12-31-2021 08:54 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  

(12-31-2021 08:13 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(12-31-2021 07:46 PM)Knightrogen Wrote:  If WVU, Louisville, Syracuse and Pittsburgh didn't join ACC and remained in the Big East or American Athletic now, will we remain the best College Basketball Conference and remain a P5 Conference?

As a UCF fan, if the old Big East didn't fall apart, will the new American be a better conference than the new Big 12?

If you're talking about the "new American" (as in the AAC with the 6 incoming CUSA teams), I would say no, it wouldn't be a better conference than the new Big 12, even if all the old Big East teams were to rejoin the conference, and even if OU and UT were to be in the SEC.



.

However, if you're asking if the current American would be stronger if the old Big East teams were to join the current American teams, to answer this, we would have to go back in time to 2011, before WVU joined the Big 12.

Big 12:..............Big East:............Big East FB+
........................(FB & MBB).........AAC teams

Baylor................Cincinnati...........Cincinnati
Iowa St..............Connecticut........Connecticut
Kansas...............Louisville............Louisville
Kansas St...........Pittsburgh..........Pittsburgh
Missouri.............Providence..........SMU
Oklahoma...........Syracuse............Syracuse
Oklahoma St.......Seton Hall..........Wichita State
Texas.................WVU..................WVU
Texas A&M..........Villanova............Houston
Texas Tech..........St. John's...........Memphis
.........................Marquette..........UCF
.........................Rutgers.............Rutgers
.........................DePaul..............Temple
.........................Georgetown.......Tulsa
.........................Notre Dame.......Tulane
.........................USF...................USF
.................................................ECU


The top 10 (2011) Big East and combined Big East/AAC teams would be very competitive with today's Big 12, but the Big 12 would probably be considered strongest, from top to bottom.


New Big 12:........Big East:............New AAC
........................(FB & MBB).........+ BE FB teams

Houston.............WVU..................WVU
Kansas...............Louisville............Louisville
Kansas St...........Pittsburgh..........Pittsburgh
Texas Tech..........St. John's...........Memphis
Cincinnati...........Syracuse............Syracuse
Baylor................Cincinnati...........Wichita State
Iowa St..............Connecticut........Connecticut
Oklahoma St.......Seton Hall..........SMU
Texas A&M..........Villanova............Tulane
Missouri.............Providence..........Temple
UCF....................Marquette..........UAB
BYU...................Rutgers.............Rutgers
.........................DePaul..............Rice
.........................Georgetown.......Tulsa
.........................USF...................USF
.........................Notre Dame.......North Texas
.................................................ECU
.................................................UTSA
.................................................Charlotte
.................................................FAU

The new Big 12 would probably be strongest from top to bottom (since 2011 BE had DePaul, Rutgers, & USF), and the new AAC with the old BE FB teams would be the weakest and least competitive (due to the 6-7 lowest quality BB programs in the new American).

I am sorry. I have to make it clear. I am not talking about the new 6 members that are going to join.

I am talking the Big East 2011 when UCF, SMU, Houston, Memphis joined before WVU, Louisville, Syracuse and Pitts left. And if they didn't join the ACC.

Syracuse
Pitts
Louisville
WVU
UCF
USF
Temple
Tulane
Memphis
SMU
Houston
Tulsa
ECU
Cincy

Could this conference be better than the New Big 12 that is with UCF, Houston, and Cincy?

The whole reason I brought this up is the fact that my school is on verge of joining Big 12 and today everyone saw how Cincy struggled with Alabama. That is a lot of work to do as we are in the same conference. But Cincy has made history in American.

I just came up with this thinking of the old Big East as the NO.1 College Basketball Conference in the country even without the Catholic 7

I know this is just hypothetical thinking. But as a fan, I like it.

if that's why you brought this up then you're concerning yourself with the wrong things. the big 12 is not the top of the sec. what does michigan's struggle with georgia (the team bama beat) say about the big 10?

This is just a hypothetical thinking. I am just thinking what if Old Big East didn't reject ESPN's offer and signed the media right with ESPN, would the Big East remain until today? Bad leadership. If Big East didn't die, UCF could probably already in a Power conference in Big East and Syracuse, Pitts and Louisville won't leave Big East. Even the Catholic 7 might left, we are still the best College basketball Conference

Just sayin'... If the Old Big East didn't die, there is no way in hell ECU, Tulsa, Tenple, or UCF ever get into the conference.

TCU and Boise State would have been in.

This is an impossibility at this point but would make much more sense than what actually happened in the last reshuffle.

Syracuse
Pitt
West Virginia
Rutgers
UConn
Temple
Louisville
Cincinnati
Memphis
UCF
USF
Navy/Notre Dame

SMU
TCU
Houston
Baylor
Texas Tech
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Colorado State
BYU
Boise State

(01-01-2022 01:33 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  Just sayin'... If the Old Big East didn't die, there is no way in hell ECU, Tulsa, Tenple, or UCF ever get into the conference.

TCU and Boise State would have been in.

This. These guys don't get it. The old guard Big East (Syracuse, Pitt, Georgetown, etc.) would have never, ever associate with most (if any) of the schools that were added after the defections/split. They are first and foremost snobs. Heck, they didn't even like West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati being in the conference. There is a reason why they never expanded before-- despite how well your time did on the field, they looked at you as the type of university they did not want to be accused of consorting with.

(01-01-2022 10:50 AM)mustangxc Wrote:  This is an impossibility at this point but would make much more sense than what actually happened in the last reshuffle.

Syracuse
Pitt
West Virginia
Rutgers
UConn
Temple
Louisville
Cincinnati
Memphis
UCF
USF
Navy/Notre Dame (i.e., Navy FB - - Notre Dame BB/olympic sports)

SMU
TCU
Houston
Baylor
Texas Tech
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Colorado State
BYU
Boise State

Spot on - - that would have been great!

I think the OP is an improbable scenario—the Big 12 needed a 10th and, with the loss of Maryland, the ACC would also be stuck with an odd number. The Big East simply wasn’t going to keep the 2005 line up past 2011.

If the last round of realignment hadn’t split the basketball faction from the football faction, surely this latest one would have.

(01-01-2022 01:13 AM)Knightrogen Wrote:  This is just a hypothetical thinking. I am just thinking what if Old Big East didn't reject ESPN's offer and signed the media right with ESPN, would the Big East remain until today? Bad leadership. If Big East didn't die, UCF could probably already in a Power conference in Big East and Syracuse, Pitts and Louisville won't leave Big East. Even the Catholic 7 might left, we are still the best College basketball Conference

Now the signing of that deal does make for an interesting question.

I’m not sure the timing of when ESPN signed their deal with the ACC. If if ESPN has the Big East signed on the cheap, then maybe it’s the ACC that the Mouse tears apart for spare parts with elements potentially going to the SEC, Big East, and possibly Big 12 and/or Big 10.

Maybe as many as 6 go to the SEC (depending on how aggressive they are feeling), the Big East gets 4. Maybe, the Big 10 snags 2-4 AAU schools.