For those of us who are long time fans or former students, the atmosphere at Trask is well known and well remembered. Voted "toughest place to play" in the CAA, it's an amazing place for fans and an intimidating place for opponents. Siddle has said it's the best atmosphere in America and it's hard to disagree.

When I was a student we had the bleachers on both sides of the court. Today, the students have the bleachers behind the bench of the opposing team and most of the way down to the other end of the court. When those fill up the students are sent upstairs behind the opposing bench as well as on the same side, upstairs behind the basket. The bleachers on the other side of the court have been converted into "luxury" seats.

The atmosphere is still great, but the students upstairs are nowhere near as rowdy and loud as those in the bleachers. And the fans in the "luxury" seats are mostly donors, mostly older, and they are not likley to get loud and rowdy much at all. So this leads me to a few observations/questions/possible solutions.

1. First and foremost, should we keep Trask or replace it?

A. Replace Trask - That's a real question on the table at the administrative level of UNCW today. There has been a desire/goal to build a new arena that holds more fans, has legitimate luxury seating/boxes, and a much better layout to allow fans to gather, get food/beer, and still be in a position to see the game while doing so. Elon, Campell and High Point have built new arenas with those features. High Point, of course, built a Trump like arena that isn't really big, but it's over the top in grandiose architecture while Elon and Campbell are more modest. I haven't been to those arenas, so i'm curious about the thoughts of those who have?
My primary focus is the "intimidation factor". It's easy to build an arena with luxury items for fans, but it's far more difficult to keep the "magic of Trask" for students and fans to get the place rocking. And if I were involved in the design my number one requirement for student seating would be bleachers. I know it sounds crazy, but there is something about the free movement and primitive setup for students you get in bleachers that disappears with individual seating. The foot stomping, pounding on the wood bleachers, and "bouncing" of the bleachers sound/movement you get when the students are at full throttle is the intimdation factor at Trask. And you lose that with individual seating. It's the difference between a mosh pit and a movie theater, and I don't want us to lose that. If we could build a fancy new arena and keep that, i'm down.

B. Upgrade Trask - This, of course, has been discussed as well. Not much you can do with the interior of the court and seating area that I know of. This limits the ability to generate revenue with luxury boxes and more seating. I think our capacity is 5,200. Not large compared to some of the other schools, but not small either. And I have no idea if seating could be increased or how. What I do know is that from the basic fan perspective of watching a game, there isn't a bad seat in the house. From a student perspective today the bleachers are the place to be and they wish there was more room. And from a players and coaches perspective, it's an awesome place to play.

Upgrade discussions have mostly been about the entrance area at the front, expanding towards the street with an atrium type setup. There could be a food court, a huge gathering area, a beer garden, and a fully stocked place for fans to buy UNCW gear.

So here are my plus/minus observations for both.

New arena -

Positives - More capacity, more fan friendly design, more potential revenue, multi use capability.
Negatives - Loss of the "magic" of Trask and the "toughest place to play" atmosphere for vistors. Likely loss of the bleacher "mosh pit" for students

Upgrade Trask -

Positives - Keeps the Trask intimidation factor alive and keeps the student mosh pit bleachers intacts. Creates a gathering area to improve the fan experience and generate more revenue.
Negatives - Can't increase seating capacity much, if at all. Can't create an upper level gathering area where fans can watch the game while getting food, drinks, etc. Less potential revenue.

For me, i'd vote to upgrade Trask. In the end this is about the students and players and their limited time at UNCW. It's their experience that matters. And if it's good for them, they will make it good for everyone who comes to games. The students will get loud and have a blast, and when they are doing that, we all enjoy the game. The players will perform better with the intimidating atmosphere at Trask. It doesn't matter to them if there are 5.200 people or 10,000 people as long as the craziness is there. And I just don't see that the powers that be would/could build a new arena that could replicate what we have at Trask. It's the bleachers filled with students that makes Cameron and Trask what they are, and I don't want us to lose that.

Bottom line, i'd rather watch a game at a Cameron Indoor stadium than the Dean Dome. And that's the choice we're making.

Your thoughts?

(02-02-2022 05:17 AM)82hawk Wrote:  For those of us who are long time fans or former students, the atmosphere at Trask is well known and well remembered. Voted "toughest place to play" in the CAA, it's an amazing place for fans and an intimidating place for opponents. Siddle has said it's the best atmosphere in America and it's hard to disagree.

When I was a student we had the bleachers on both sides of the court. Today, the students have the bleachers behind the bench of the opposing team and most of the way down to the other end of the court. When those fill up the students are sent upstairs behind the opposing bench as well as on the same side, upstairs behind the basket. The bleachers on the other side of the court have been converted into "luxury" seats.

The atmosphere is still great, but the students upstairs are nowhere near as rowdy and loud as those in the bleachers. And the fans in the "luxury" seats are mostly donors, mostly older, and they are not likley to get loud and rowdy much at all. So this leads me to a few observations/questions/possible solutions.

1. First and foremost, should we keep Trask or replace it?

A. Replace Trask - That's a real question on the table at the administrative level of UNCW today. There has been a desire/goal to build a new arena that holds more fans, has legitimate luxury seating/boxes, and a much better layout to allow fans to gather, get food/beer, and still be in a position to see the game while doing so. Elon, Campell and High Point have built new arenas with those features. High Point, of course, built a Trump like arena that isn't really big, but it's over the top in grandiose architecture while Elon and Campbell are more modest. I haven't been to those arenas, so i'm curious about the thoughts of those who have?
My primary focus is the "intimidation factor". It's easy to build an arena with luxury items for fans, but it's far more difficult to keep the "magic of Trask" for students and fans to get the place rocking. And if I were involved in the design my number one requirement for student seating would be bleachers. I know it sounds crazy, but there is something about the free movement and primitive setup for students you get in bleachers that disappears with individual seating. The foot stomping, pounding on the wood bleachers, and "bouncing" of the bleachers sound/movement you get when the students are at full throttle is the intimdation factor at Trask. And you lose that with individual seating. It's the difference between a mosh pit and a movie theater, and I don't want us to lose that. If we could build a fancy new arena and keep that, i'm down.

B. Upgrade Trask - This, of course, has been discussed as well. Not much you can do with the interior of the court and seating area that I know of. This limits the ability to generate revenue with luxury boxes and more seating. I think our capacity is 5,200. Not large compared to some of the other schools, but not small either. And I have no idea if seating could be increased or how. What I do know is that from the basic fan perspective of watching a game, there isn't a bad seat in the house. From a student perspective today the bleachers are the place to be and they wish there was more room. And from a players and coaches perspective, it's an awesome place to play.

Upgrade discussions have mostly been about the entrance area at the front, expanding towards the street with an atrium type setup. There could be a food court, a huge gathering area, a beer garden, and a fully stocked place for fans to buy UNCW gear.

So here are my plus/minus observations for both.

New arena -

Positives - More capacity, more fan friendly design, more potential revenue, multi use capability.
Negatives - Loss of the "magic" of Trask and the "toughest place to play" atmosphere for vistors. Likely loss of the bleacher "mosh pit" for students

Upgrade Trask -

Positives - Keeps the Trask intimidation factor alive and keeps the student mosh pit bleachers intacts. Creates a gathering area to improve the fan experience and generate more revenue.
Negatives - Can't increase seating capacity much, if at all. Can't create an upper level gathering area where fans can watch the game while getting food, drinks, etc. Less potential revenue.

For me, i'd vote to upgrade Trask. In the end this is about the students and players and their limited time at UNCW. It's their experience that matters. And if it's good for them, they will make it good for everyone who comes to games. The students will get loud and have a blast, and when they are doing that, we all enjoy the game. The players will perform better with the intimidating atmosphere at Trask. It doesn't matter to them if there are 5.200 people or 10,000 people as long as the craziness is there. And I just don't see that the powers that be would/could build a new arena that could replicate what we have at Trask. It's the bleachers filled with students that makes Cameron and Trask what they are, and I don't want us to lose that.

Bottom line, i'd rather watch a game at a Cameron Indoor stadium than the Dean Dome. And that's the choice we're making.

Your thoughts?

Our options aren't Cameron vs Dean Dome. The Dean Dome is 36 years old and lacked vision. As you've pointed out, the students being close to the floor is what matters. Some of the more recent new arenas have figured out how to accomplish luxury seating without sacrificing students being close to the floor.

The concourse at Trask needs improvement, and we've talked before about basics such as merchandise not being available as issues. My opinion is that we need to figure out a way to improve that, but the experience inside the gym only needs tweaks. I don't think we need to tear it down for something new and shiny. Upgrade the experience outside the gym, but keep gym close to what it is.

(02-02-2022 08:16 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 05:17 AM)82hawk Wrote:  For those of us who are long time fans or former students, the atmosphere at Trask is well known and well remembered. Voted "toughest place to play" in the CAA, it's an amazing place for fans and an intimidating place for opponents. Siddle has said it's the best atmosphere in America and it's hard to disagree.

When I was a student we had the bleachers on both sides of the court. Today, the students have the bleachers behind the bench of the opposing team and most of the way down to the other end of the court. When those fill up the students are sent upstairs behind the opposing bench as well as on the same side, upstairs behind the basket. The bleachers on the other side of the court have been converted into "luxury" seats.

The atmosphere is still great, but the students upstairs are nowhere near as rowdy and loud as those in the bleachers. And the fans in the "luxury" seats are mostly donors, mostly older, and they are not likley to get loud and rowdy much at all. So this leads me to a few observations/questions/possible solutions.

1. First and foremost, should we keep Trask or replace it?

A. Replace Trask - That's a real question on the table at the administrative level of UNCW today. There has been a desire/goal to build a new arena that holds more fans, has legitimate luxury seating/boxes, and a much better layout to allow fans to gather, get food/beer, and still be in a position to see the game while doing so. Elon, Campell and High Point have built new arenas with those features. High Point, of course, built a Trump like arena that isn't really big, but it's over the top in grandiose architecture while Elon and Campbell are more modest. I haven't been to those arenas, so i'm curious about the thoughts of those who have?
My primary focus is the "intimidation factor". It's easy to build an arena with luxury items for fans, but it's far more difficult to keep the "magic of Trask" for students and fans to get the place rocking. And if I were involved in the design my number one requirement for student seating would be bleachers. I know it sounds crazy, but there is something about the free movement and primitive setup for students you get in bleachers that disappears with individual seating. The foot stomping, pounding on the wood bleachers, and "bouncing" of the bleachers sound/movement you get when the students are at full throttle is the intimdation factor at Trask. And you lose that with individual seating. It's the difference between a mosh pit and a movie theater, and I don't want us to lose that. If we could build a fancy new arena and keep that, i'm down.

B. Upgrade Trask - This, of course, has been discussed as well. Not much you can do with the interior of the court and seating area that I know of. This limits the ability to generate revenue with luxury boxes and more seating. I think our capacity is 5,200. Not large compared to some of the other schools, but not small either. And I have no idea if seating could be increased or how. What I do know is that from the basic fan perspective of watching a game, there isn't a bad seat in the house. From a student perspective today the bleachers are the place to be and they wish there was more room. And from a players and coaches perspective, it's an awesome place to play.

Upgrade discussions have mostly been about the entrance area at the front, expanding towards the street with an atrium type setup. There could be a food court, a huge gathering area, a beer garden, and a fully stocked place for fans to buy UNCW gear.

So here are my plus/minus observations for both.

New arena -

Positives - More capacity, more fan friendly design, more potential revenue, multi use capability.
Negatives - Loss of the "magic" of Trask and the "toughest place to play" atmosphere for vistors. Likely loss of the bleacher "mosh pit" for students

Upgrade Trask -

Positives - Keeps the Trask intimidation factor alive and keeps the student mosh pit bleachers intacts. Creates a gathering area to improve the fan experience and generate more revenue.
Negatives - Can't increase seating capacity much, if at all. Can't create an upper level gathering area where fans can watch the game while getting food, drinks, etc. Less potential revenue.

For me, i'd vote to upgrade Trask. In the end this is about the students and players and their limited time at UNCW. It's their experience that matters. And if it's good for them, they will make it good for everyone who comes to games. The students will get loud and have a blast, and when they are doing that, we all enjoy the game. The players will perform better with the intimidating atmosphere at Trask. It doesn't matter to them if there are 5.200 people or 10,000 people as long as the craziness is there. And I just don't see that the powers that be would/could build a new arena that could replicate what we have at Trask. It's the bleachers filled with students that makes Cameron and Trask what they are, and I don't want us to lose that.

Bottom line, i'd rather watch a game at a Cameron Indoor stadium than the Dean Dome. And that's the choice we're making.

Your thoughts?

Our options aren't Cameron vs Dean Dome. The Dean Dome is 36 years old and lacked vision. As you've pointed out, the students being close to the floor is what matters. Some of the more recent new arenas have figured out how to accomplish luxury seating without sacrificing students being close to the floor.

The concourse at Trask needs improvement, and we've talked before about basics such as merchandise not being available as issues. My opinion is that we need to figure out a way to improve that, but the experience inside the gym only needs tweaks. I don't think we need to tear it down for something new and shiny. Upgrade the experience outside the gym, but keep gym close to what it is.

I went to see UNCW at the new Campbell arena a few years ago. While it's nice, i really wasn't blown away. I do like the open concourse, so it's easy to keep watching the game while going to grab a bite or a drink.
I'm with Bricks, i think upgrade some of the things that you can to improve fan experience but i really don't think we need a new arena. Sometimes when you go for shiny and new, you lose the fan experience. Being a Yankee fan i can speak to that first hand. Sure the new Yankee Stadium is pretty great, but it lacks the atmosphere the old one had. I'd hate to go new and lose the atmosphere.

In the past I would have said 100% renovate Trask

Now, I think it would be wise to build something new. It is of the utmost importance that we maintain the mosh pit atmosphere in the lower bowl for the students, but I would love to see a new 8000 seat arena on that plot of land where the abandoned Kmart currently resides.

It would send a statement that UNCW is no longer a program running on a shoe string budget, and it would be a large enough venue where events could be hosted helping the university recoup its investment.

I see no non financial reason why a new arena cannot be created maintaining what makes the court special while providing spectators things like larger concession and bathroom area and a beverage and merchandising concourse

(02-02-2022 08:48 AM)solohawks Wrote:  In the past I would have said 100% renovate Trask

Now, I think it would be wise to build something new. It is of the utmost importance that we maintain the mosh pit atmosphere in the lower bowl for the students, but I would love to see a new 8000 seat arena on that plot of land where the abandoned Kmart currently resides.

It would send a statement that UNCW is no longer a program running on a shoe string budget, and it would be a large enough venue where events could be hosted helping the university recoup its investment.

I see no non financial reason why a new arena cannot be created maintaining what makes the court special while providing spectators things like larger concession and bathroom area and a beverage and merchandising concourse

I'm not in favor of taking it off campus. The old Kmart is not far away, but it's far enough away to keep students walking to the game.

(02-02-2022 09:38 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 08:48 AM)solohawks Wrote:  In the past I would have said 100% renovate Trask

Now, I think it would be wise to build something new. It is of the utmost importance that we maintain the mosh pit atmosphere in the lower bowl for the students, but I would love to see a new 8000 seat arena on that plot of land where the abandoned Kmart currently resides.

It would send a statement that UNCW is no longer a program running on a shoe string budget, and it would be a large enough venue where events could be hosted helping the university recoup its investment.

I see no non financial reason why a new arena cannot be created maintaining what makes the court special while providing spectators things like larger concession and bathroom area and a beverage and merchandising concourse

I'm not in favor of taking it off campus. The old Kmart is not far away, but it's far enough away to keep students walking to the game.

It's right beside the cookout. They walk to cookout all the time

Trask has not been maintained at all but the building itself seems to be in decent shape and it is always cheaper to remodel/upfit over a new building type deal . Couple that with the fact that UNCW has no money to build a new building and the Kmart property is still a lease/hold with Kmart -so you have to negotiate a deal with them or whoever is representing them . The Honda dealer property is listed at $9.5 million . I just don't see it happening for either property at this time.
Basketball at UNCW while still a good draw is a business I would not put much money in with the way kids are and they are the future fans . They don't go to high school games and they don't watch sports on TV-that has to be considered going forward. I would go for the remodel and we all it is past due for that.

They could put it on the new parking lot in front of track field and use k mart for parking.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

(02-02-2022 11:52 AM)tke75hawk Wrote:  They could put it on the new parking lot in front of track field and use k mart for parking.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

That is a very expensive parking lot but UNCW has been known for it's savy real estate deals going back to the parking lot on Oleander Dr across the street from Romanelli's .Considering they paid $2.5 for it and sold it 15 years later for $2 million -not to mention the yearly expenses of over $200K I would say real estate deals should be left to somebody else. It was Carmike Cinemas before UNCW decided they had to have it . They also overpaid for the buildings directly across College Road from Trask-another series of mind boggling purchases for something they didn't need at all .
Trask is a good building to rehab and maybe even consider painting it every 50 years or so .

(02-02-2022 02:23 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 11:52 AM)tke75hawk Wrote:  They could put it on the new parking lot in front of track field and use k mart for parking.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

That is a very expensive parking lot but UNCW has been known for it's savy real estate deals going back to the parking lot on Oleander Dr across the street from Romanelli's .Considering they paid $2.5 for it and sold it 15 years later for $2 million -not to mention the yearly expenses of over $200K I would say real estate deals should be left to somebody else. It was Carmike Cinemas before UNCW decided they had to have it . They also overpaid for the buildings directly across College Road from Trask-another series of mind boggling purchases for something they didn't need at all .
Trask is a good building to rehab and maybe even consider painting it every 50 years or so .

This is certainly a time where you wish the city of Wilmington had a shared arena. In order to do a meaningful renovation, they would have to be out of Trask for at least one season one would think.

(02-02-2022 08:48 AM)solohawks Wrote:  In the past I would have said 100% renovate Trask

Now, I think it would be wise to build something new. It is of the utmost importance that we maintain the mosh pit atmosphere in the lower bowl for the students, but I would love to see a new 8000 seat arena on that plot of land where the abandoned Kmart currently resides.

It would send a statement that UNCW is no longer a program running on a shoe string budget, and it would be a large enough venue where events could be hosted helping the university recoup its investment.

I see no non financial reason why a new arena cannot be created maintaining what makes the court special while providing spectators things like larger concession and bathroom area and a beverage and merchandising concourse

My only hesitation for a new arena is losing the crazy atmosphere you get in a place like Trask. If that could be maintained, or even made better, i'd be in favor of a new arena. The one bad thing about Trask is the small amount of seating for students courtside. If we could double the capacity for students, the atmosphere could actually be better.

(02-02-2022 02:33 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 08:48 AM)solohawks Wrote:  In the past I would have said 100% renovate Trask

Now, I think it would be wise to build something new. It is of the utmost importance that we maintain the mosh pit atmosphere in the lower bowl for the students, but I would love to see a new 8000 seat arena on that plot of land where the abandoned Kmart currently resides.

It would send a statement that UNCW is no longer a program running on a shoe string budget, and it would be a large enough venue where events could be hosted helping the university recoup its investment.

I see no non financial reason why a new arena cannot be created maintaining what makes the court special while providing spectators things like larger concession and bathroom area and a beverage and merchandising concourse

My only hesitation for a new arena is losing the crazy atmosphere you get in a place like Trask. If that could be maintained, or even made better, i'd be in favor of a new arena. The one bad thing about Trask is the small amount of seating for students courtside. If we could double the capacity for students, the atmosphere could actually be better.

The seating for a new arena on campus would have to go down not up IMO . There is just no call for another building that sits empty 90% of the time . Trask is a good place for basketball and with some real plans it could be an absolute gem but I don't trust UNCW to do anything right when it comes to things like this . The crowds lately have been great for basketball but most of the time there are plenty of empty seats and that is not going to change much in the future . The last upgrade was a joke with the big kiss cam scoreboard and the cheap seating that replaced the awesome bleachers . There is just no way I would trust those same bozos to do it next time . The band is upstairs,cheerleaders are in no mans land behind the damn basket along with the dance team while the other side is used for a handicap area now but was not intended to be that . It's just a hot mess and don't forget the concessions which are not as good as some middle schools I have seen .

(02-02-2022 02:50 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 02:33 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 08:48 AM)solohawks Wrote:  In the past I would have said 100% renovate Trask

Now, I think it would be wise to build something new. It is of the utmost importance that we maintain the mosh pit atmosphere in the lower bowl for the students, but I would love to see a new 8000 seat arena on that plot of land where the abandoned Kmart currently resides.

It would send a statement that UNCW is no longer a program running on a shoe string budget, and it would be a large enough venue where events could be hosted helping the university recoup its investment.

I see no non financial reason why a new arena cannot be created maintaining what makes the court special while providing spectators things like larger concession and bathroom area and a beverage and merchandising concourse

My only hesitation for a new arena is losing the crazy atmosphere you get in a place like Trask. If that could be maintained, or even made better, i'd be in favor of a new arena. The one bad thing about Trask is the small amount of seating for students courtside. If we could double the capacity for students, the atmosphere could actually be better.

The seating for a new arena on campus would have to go down not up IMO . There is just no call for another building that sits empty 90% of the time . Trask is a good place for basketball and with some real plans it could be an absolute gem but I don't trust UNCW to do anything right when it comes to things like this . The crowds lately have been great for basketball but most of the time there are plenty of empty seats and that is not going to change much in the future . The last upgrade was a joke with the big kiss cam scoreboard and the cheap seating that replaced the awesome bleachers . There is just no way I would trust those same bozos to do it next time . The band is upstairs,cheerleaders are in no mans land behind the damn basket along with the dance team while the other side is used for a handicap area now but was not intended to be that . It's just a hot mess and don't forget the concessions which are not as good as some middle schools I have seen .

How would your renovated Trask look?

(02-02-2022 03:14 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 02:50 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 02:33 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(02-02-2022 08:48 AM)solohawks Wrote:  In the past I would have said 100% renovate Trask

Now, I think it would be wise to build something new. It is of the utmost importance that we maintain the mosh pit atmosphere in the lower bowl for the students, but I would love to see a new 8000 seat arena on that plot of land where the abandoned Kmart currently resides.

It would send a statement that UNCW is no longer a program running on a shoe string budget, and it would be a large enough venue where events could be hosted helping the university recoup its investment.

I see no non financial reason why a new arena cannot be created maintaining what makes the court special while providing spectators things like larger concession and bathroom area and a beverage and merchandising concourse

My only hesitation for a new arena is losing the crazy atmosphere you get in a place like Trask. If that could be maintained, or even made better, i'd be in favor of a new arena. The one bad thing about Trask is the small amount of seating for students courtside. If we could double the capacity for students, the atmosphere could actually be better.

The seating for a new arena on campus would have to go down not up IMO . There is just no call for another building that sits empty 90% of the time . Trask is a good place for basketball and with some real plans it could be an absolute gem but I don't trust UNCW to do anything right when it comes to things like this . The crowds lately have been great for basketball but most of the time there are plenty of empty seats and that is not going to change much in the future . The last upgrade was a joke with the big kiss cam scoreboard and the cheap seating that replaced the awesome bleachers . There is just no way I would trust those same bozos to do it next time . The band is upstairs,cheerleaders are in no mans land behind the damn basket along with the dance team while the other side is used for a handicap area now but was not intended to be that . It's just a hot mess and don't forget the concessions which are not as good as some middle schools I have seen .

How would your renovated Trask look?

I would hire a professional company that has a track record with this and not depend on the vision of the AD or a coach . Sometimes less is more in this type deal in regards to the huge,useless score board and bad courtside signage . The bleachers could be put back in behind the baskets for more room for students -moving them upstairs and the band is just not how it should be for these kids . Cameron Indoor is about as good as it gets for these type buildings IMO and something along those lines would be great . Trask is a huge building with a lot of hall space and big stairwells to take care of moving crowds but I think the space could be better used . Plenty of room there to work with !