(02-26-2022 03:16 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

Both of these guys are holding Javelin launchers.

If this ends up not going ell for Putin, we can all thank Trump for sending those javelins over there back in 2018.

(02-26-2022 04:12 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 03:16 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

Both of these guys are holding Javelin launchers.

If this ends up not going ell for Putin, we can all thank Trump for sending those javelins over there back in 2018.

NATO was stuffing Ukraine full of anti-tank missiles prior the invasion. Javalins were coming from allies too. The Brits also sent a bunch of NLAWS which is a darn solid anti-tank missile. A rarely mentioned fact---the Ukrainians manufacture the home grown "Stugna-P" anti-tank missile. Its almost as good as the Javelin (has a top attack mode)---and they delivered over 2500 of them to the Ukrainian army in the very first year of manufacturing them in 2018. They no doubt have delivered many more since then---so Ukraine literally has thousands of those Stugna-P anti-tank missiles.

One more little known fact about the Javelin---if you turn off the "top attack" mode and fire it in direct attack mode, the Javelin becomes a very effective guided anti-aircraft weapon against helicopters. The Stugna-P supposedly has this capability as well.

Javelins are bad mo fos. The ILNLAWS are the Toyota to the Lexus but they are dang good as well. Thank you Raytheon for both.

Those may actually be NLAWS. I had thought that I could tell the difference from the endcap shapes, but maybe not. The launchers look quite similar.

You have to be a lot closer to use the NLAWS than a javelin. But since many previously purchased NLAWS are nearing their end of life, countries may be willing to part with most of them and let Ukrain have their stockpiles, especially if they can restock with javelins or another more recent upgrade.

(02-26-2022 05:59 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Those may actually be NLAWS. I had thought that I could tell the difference from the endcap shapes, but maybe not. The launchers look quite similar.

You have to be a lot closer to use the NLAWS than a javelin. But since many previously purchased NLAWS are nearing their end of life, countries may be willing to part with most of them and let Ukrain have their stockpiles, especially if they can restock with javelins or another more recent upgrade.

I read something similar about the Stinger inventories. The Stinger came out in the 80's---so my understanding is we are in the process of developing a next-gen replacement for the Stinger.

"I read something similar about the Stinger inventories. The Stinger came out in the 80's---so my understanding is we are in the process of developing a next-gen replacement for the Stinger."

I hope so, we might need them soon ourselves. *sigh*

Thank you to THE SOB for his incompetence who might bring us into another war because of his weakness. Go take a nap you old buffoon, nighty night.

(02-26-2022 02:54 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

They were within miles of Kiev when they started.

In WWII Patton sometimes went 30 miles a day. But then they would pull fuel from him to avoid him embarrassing Montgomery.

(02-26-2022 08:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 02:54 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

They were within miles of Kiev when they started.

In WWII Patton sometimes went 30 miles a day. But then they would pull fuel from him to avoid him embarrassing Montgomery.

I just saw a retired US general state that Putin doesn’t want to destroy Kyiv as it’s an important Russian city and is also the key Russian Orthodox Christianity center and destroying it would turn his own supporters against him; so he’s just sitting outside the city to squeeze them into negotiations. Thinks that negotiations are already happening but the Ukrainian govt is saving face for as long as they can

(02-26-2022 09:44 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 08:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 02:54 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

They were within miles of Kiev when they started.

In WWII Patton sometimes went 30 miles a day. But then they would pull fuel from him to avoid him embarrassing Montgomery.

I just saw a retired US general state that Putin doesn’t want to destroy Kyiv as it’s an important Russian city and is also the key Russian Orthodox Christianity center and destroying it would turn his own supporters against him; so he’s just sitting outside the city to squeeze them into negotiations. Thinks that negotiations are already happening but the Ukrainian govt is saving face for as long as they can

lulz, so Putin did a very-multi-headed raid into Ukraine, but all he wants to do is negotiate?

If Putin is wanting to negotiate now, it means he is getting his ass handed to him both in Ukraine and back home.

(02-26-2022 09:44 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 08:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 02:54 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

They were within miles of Kiev when they started.

In WWII Patton sometimes went 30 miles a day. But then they would pull fuel from him to avoid him embarrassing Montgomery.

I just saw a retired US general state that Putin doesn’t want to destroy Kyiv as it’s an important Russian city and is also the key Russian Orthodox Christianity center and destroying it would turn his own supporters against him; so he’s just sitting outside the city to squeeze them into negotiations. Thinks that negotiations are already happening but the Ukrainian govt is saving face for as long as they can

take a wild guess who goes down if the Ukraine goes down (hint: laptop boy & corp) ...

it's not just Zelenskyy ... his best move is to die in battle vs. any other alternative....

lmmao at former general's rhetoric ...

@par=par

Putin is torchin' y'all's arse inside and out ... ya wanna know why ..... b/c the mothertrucker can with malice and a cheshire .... that's why!

if it was me ... I'd do the same goddammed thingy in his position....

(02-26-2022 09:51 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  If Putin is wanting to negotiate now, it means he is getting his ass handed to him both in Ukraine and back home.

I think that's a pretty accurate assessment. Russia has a big army, but they're not very good. Back in the 1970s, NATO very much overstated the USSR's capabilities. When the Berlin Wall fell, we found out how much we had overestimated them. I don't think they've fixed their problems, and they're working with a much smaller personnel pool.

Former top official at Russia's Central Bank stated that "There's going to be a catastrophe on the Russian currency market on Monday"

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

(02-26-2022 09:51 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:44 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 08:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 02:54 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

They were within miles of Kiev when they started.

In WWII Patton sometimes went 30 miles a day. But then they would pull fuel from him to avoid him embarrassing Montgomery.

I just saw a retired US general state that Putin doesn’t want to destroy Kyiv as it’s an important Russian city and is also the key Russian Orthodox Christianity center and destroying it would turn his own supporters against him; so he’s just sitting outside the city to squeeze them into negotiations. Thinks that negotiations are already happening but the Ukrainian govt is saving face for as long as they can

lulz, so Putin did a very-multi-headed raid into Ukraine, but all he wants to do is negotiate?

If Putin is wanting to negotiate now, it means he is getting his ass handed to him both in Ukraine and back home.

I think the point he’s saying is that Putin has the upper hand wants to get what he wants without having to destroy Kyiv entirely

(02-26-2022 10:07 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:51 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:44 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 08:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 02:54 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

They were within miles of Kiev when they started.

In WWII Patton sometimes went 30 miles a day. But then they would pull fuel from him to avoid him embarrassing Montgomery.

I just saw a retired US general state that Putin doesn’t want to destroy Kyiv as it’s an important Russian city and is also the key Russian Orthodox Christianity center and destroying it would turn his own supporters against him; so he’s just sitting outside the city to squeeze them into negotiations. Thinks that negotiations are already happening but the Ukrainian govt is saving face for as long as they can

lulz, so Putin did a very-multi-headed raid into Ukraine, but all he wants to do is negotiate?

If Putin is wanting to negotiate now, it means he is getting his ass handed to him both in Ukraine and back home.

I think the point he’s saying is that Putin has the upper hand wants to get what he wants without having to destroy Kyiv entirely

I think it's a good point, and one I'd overlooked previously. Just listen to how much Putin talked about history in his unhinged speech, he isn't likely to want to level the historic birthplace of the Russian nation. I fear their special forces are gonna get in and take out Zelensky though.

(02-26-2022 10:07 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:51 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:44 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 08:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 02:54 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

They were within miles of Kiev when they started.

In WWII Patton sometimes went 30 miles a day. But then they would pull fuel from him to avoid him embarrassing Montgomery.

I just saw a retired US general state that Putin doesn’t want to destroy Kyiv as it’s an important Russian city and is also the key Russian Orthodox Christianity center and destroying it would turn his own supporters against him; so he’s just sitting outside the city to squeeze them into negotiations. Thinks that negotiations are already happening but the Ukrainian govt is saving face for as long as they can

lulz, so Putin did a very-multi-headed raid into Ukraine, but all he wants to do is negotiate?

If Putin is wanting to negotiate now, it means he is getting his ass handed to him both in Ukraine and back home.

I think the point he’s saying is that Putin has the upper hand wants to get what he wants without having to destroy Kyiv entirely

Thats not exactly matching reality though. Russia announced that they had knocked out Ukraines air defense systems within hours of the attack, only to be humiliated on the world stage when it was clearly not the case. Russia also took over the Kyiv airport, only to lose it, only to regain it back, only to lose it again.

This is looking more like a quagmire than Russia having the upper hand. And when the oligarchs start having their yachts, mansions, and money taken away, there will be hell to pay.

(02-26-2022 10:19 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 10:07 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:51 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:44 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 08:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  They were within miles of Kiev when they started.

In WWII Patton sometimes went 30 miles a day. But then they would pull fuel from him to avoid him embarrassing Montgomery.

I just saw a retired US general state that Putin doesn’t want to destroy Kyiv as it’s an important Russian city and is also the key Russian Orthodox Christianity center and destroying it would turn his own supporters against him; so he’s just sitting outside the city to squeeze them into negotiations. Thinks that negotiations are already happening but the Ukrainian govt is saving face for as long as they can

lulz, so Putin did a very-multi-headed raid into Ukraine, but all he wants to do is negotiate?

If Putin is wanting to negotiate now, it means he is getting his ass handed to him both in Ukraine and back home.

I think the point he’s saying is that Putin has the upper hand wants to get what he wants without having to destroy Kyiv entirely

I think it's a good point, and one I'd overlooked previously. Just listen to how much Putin talked about history in his unhinged speech, he isn't likely to want to level the historic birthplace of the Russian nation. I fear their special forces are gonna get in and take out Zelensky though.

After the coup, neither him or Poroshenko have been considered legitimate by a large portion of the country. Funny man cashed in on his TV game but is in over his head, and taking orders from Washington and Saakashvili is probably the quickest way to get taken out. I would expect Russia to take him to Moscow for a war crimes trial for his crimes against civilians in Donbas however.

(02-26-2022 10:33 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 10:07 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:51 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:44 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 08:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  They were within miles of Kiev when they started.

In WWII Patton sometimes went 30 miles a day. But then they would pull fuel from him to avoid him embarrassing Montgomery.

I just saw a retired US general state that Putin doesn’t want to destroy Kyiv as it’s an important Russian city and is also the key Russian Orthodox Christianity center and destroying it would turn his own supporters against him; so he’s just sitting outside the city to squeeze them into negotiations. Thinks that negotiations are already happening but the Ukrainian govt is saving face for as long as they can

lulz, so Putin did a very-multi-headed raid into Ukraine, but all he wants to do is negotiate?

If Putin is wanting to negotiate now, it means he is getting his ass handed to him both in Ukraine and back home.

I think the point he’s saying is that Putin has the upper hand wants to get what he wants without having to destroy Kyiv entirely

Thats not exactly matching reality though. Russia announced that they had knocked out Ukraines air defense systems within hours of the attack, only to be humiliated on the world stage when it was clearly not the case. Russia also took over the Kyiv airport, only to lose it, only to regain it back, only to lose it again.

This is looking more like a quagmire than Russia having the upper hand. And when the oligarchs start having their yachts, mansions, and money taken away, there will be hell to pay.

A quagmire after 3 days. You’re killing me man. In a way, I get because Ukraine is both broke and a joke, but they aren’t a preindustrial society lol.

(02-26-2022 10:38 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 10:33 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 10:07 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:51 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:44 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  I just saw a retired US general state that Putin doesn’t want to destroy Kyiv as it’s an important Russian city and is also the key Russian Orthodox Christianity center and destroying it would turn his own supporters against him; so he’s just sitting outside the city to squeeze them into negotiations. Thinks that negotiations are already happening but the Ukrainian govt is saving face for as long as they can

lulz, so Putin did a very-multi-headed raid into Ukraine, but all he wants to do is negotiate?

If Putin is wanting to negotiate now, it means he is getting his ass handed to him both in Ukraine and back home.

I think the point he’s saying is that Putin has the upper hand wants to get what he wants without having to destroy Kyiv entirely

Thats not exactly matching reality though. Russia announced that they had knocked out Ukraines air defense systems within hours of the attack, only to be humiliated on the world stage when it was clearly not the case. Russia also took over the Kyiv airport, only to lose it, only to regain it back, only to lose it again.

This is looking more like a quagmire than Russia having the upper hand. And when the oligarchs start having their yachts, mansions, and money taken away, there will be hell to pay.

A quagmire after 3 days. You’re killing me man. In a way, I get because Ukraine is both broke and a joke, but they aren’t a preindustrial society lol.

How long of a quagmire do you think Putin can stand? This goes on 2 weeks, and he's dead meat. He's having his cargo ships seized, many oil transport ships wont ship his oil because the companies are afraid it will get confiscated due to upcoming sanctions, and his soldiers will starve in a couple of weeks. Also, he will be lucky to have any tanks remaining in 14 days at the rate they are getting blown apart.

(02-26-2022 10:47 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 10:38 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 10:33 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 10:07 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:51 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  lulz, so Putin did a very-multi-headed raid into Ukraine, but all he wants to do is negotiate?

If Putin is wanting to negotiate now, it means he is getting his ass handed to him both in Ukraine and back home.

I think the point he’s saying is that Putin has the upper hand wants to get what he wants without having to destroy Kyiv entirely

Thats not exactly matching reality though. Russia announced that they had knocked out Ukraines air defense systems within hours of the attack, only to be humiliated on the world stage when it was clearly not the case. Russia also took over the Kyiv airport, only to lose it, only to regain it back, only to lose it again.

This is looking more like a quagmire than Russia having the upper hand. And when the oligarchs start having their yachts, mansions, and money taken away, there will be hell to pay.

A quagmire after 3 days. You’re killing me man. In a way, I get because Ukraine is both broke and a joke, but they aren’t a preindustrial society lol.

How long of a quagmire do you think Putin can stand? This goes on 2 weeks, and he's dead meat. He's having his cargo ships seized, many oil transport ships wont ship his oil because the companies are afraid it will get confiscated due to upcoming sanctions, and his soldiers will starve in a couple of weeks. Also, he will be lucky to have any tanks remaining in 14 days at the rate they are getting blown apart.

tell me why the Ukraine is more important than muh pooty poot rooskies ... I still don't get why this bs matters in scope...

now, if you're buying into the whole NATO bs msm blah ble blah ... then, okay ...

TELL ME WHY I, OR ANY AMERICAN SHOULD GIVE TWO FKS (unless you're buying what the msm is selling with that red button thingy)

#allEars

(02-26-2022 10:47 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 10:38 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 10:33 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 10:07 PM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  

(02-26-2022 09:51 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  lulz, so Putin did a very-multi-headed raid into Ukraine, but all he wants to do is negotiate?

If Putin is wanting to negotiate now, it means he is getting his ass handed to him both in Ukraine and back home.

I think the point he’s saying is that Putin has the upper hand wants to get what he wants without having to destroy Kyiv entirely

Thats not exactly matching reality though. Russia announced that they had knocked out Ukraines air defense systems within hours of the attack, only to be humiliated on the world stage when it was clearly not the case. Russia also took over the Kyiv airport, only to lose it, only to regain it back, only to lose it again.

This is looking more like a quagmire than Russia having the upper hand. And when the oligarchs start having their yachts, mansions, and money taken away, there will be hell to pay.

A quagmire after 3 days. You’re killing me man. In a way, I get because Ukraine is both broke and a joke, but they aren’t a preindustrial society lol.

How long of a quagmire do you think Putin can stand? This goes on 2 weeks, and he's dead meat. He's having his cargo ships seized, many oil transport ships wont ship his oil because the companies are afraid it will get confiscated due to upcoming sanctions, and his soldiers will starve in a couple of weeks. Also, he will be lucky to have any tanks remaining in 14 days at the rate they are getting blown apart.

I agree domestic pressure for Putin will grow, but it's also not the immediate problem it would be here or in Western Europe. The Russian people are, sadly, somewhat accustomed to suffering if they were around in the 90s or earlier. They're not nearly as spoiled & soft as our populace. There is also a fatalism to the Russian psyche which has helped them survive hard times in many different eras. I am encouraged by the protests we've seen so far in Russia this early on before the body bags even start coming home, but I think he has significantly more time than 2 weeks. And while I'm thrilled to see how many tanks Ukraine has taken out, I fear they will ultimately be overwhelmed by sheer numbers. The latest numbers I've seen say the Russians have still only sent half of the forces amassed on the border into Ukraine.