(03-08-2022 09:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  Give it up, boy. Nobody cares what you think and it’s obviously another spin agenda. Maybe the old school ACC teams are just better than the noobs and the ACC was the tougher conference all along.

Kansas would take the first ticket offered out of your “best basketball conference”. Microcosm Boy, that’s your new nickname.

Kansas will take the first ticket to the Final Four. There isn't a league they can join that is rated higher.

Meanwhile, do you think more Syracuse fans will be tuned into MSG than wherever the ACC is right now? Syracuse fans are tired of being bad in the ACC, just like UConn was tired of being bad in the AAC.

(03-08-2022 09:12 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  Give it up, boy. Nobody cares what you think and it’s obviously another spin agenda. Maybe the old school ACC teams are just better than the noobs and the ACC was the tougher conference all along.

Kansas would take the first ticket offered out of your “best basketball conference”. Microcosm Boy, that’s your new nickname.

Kansas will take the first ticket to the Final Four. There isn't a league they can join that is rated higher.

Meanwhile, do you think more Syracuse fans will be tuned into MSG than wherever the ACC is right now? Syracuse fans are tired of being bad in the ACC, just like UConn was tired of being bad in the AAC.

Yeah, because Syracuse is only "bad" because they're in the ACC? They'd be Final Four bound in any other conference?

(03-08-2022 09:18 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:12 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  Give it up, boy. Nobody cares what you think and it’s obviously another spin agenda. Maybe the old school ACC teams are just better than the noobs and the ACC was the tougher conference all along.

Kansas would take the first ticket offered out of your “best basketball conference”. Microcosm Boy, that’s your new nickname.

Kansas will take the first ticket to the Final Four. There isn't a league they can join that is rated higher.

Meanwhile, do you think more Syracuse fans will be tuned into MSG than wherever the ACC is right now? Syracuse fans are tired of being bad in the ACC, just like UConn was tired of being bad in the AAC.

Yeah, because Syracuse is only "bad" because they're in the ACC? They'd be Final Four bound in any other conference?

Syracuse is playing "Daddy ball" while they are losing out on recruits to Nova, Seton Hall, UConn, et al.
It wasn't supposed to be that way. They share more competition for recruits in their own back yard than they bargained for when the ACC thought they were building a great hoops league.
Let's just leave it at this. ACC Football and Basketball have suffered from the same composition problems, and their killshot to the OBE didn't work out quite the way they had hoped. The ACC is the only autonomy league sharing significant recruiting ground with an Olympic-sports-only league that is eclipsing it.

(03-08-2022 09:12 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  Give it up, boy. Nobody cares what you think and it’s obviously another spin agenda. Maybe the old school ACC teams are just better than the noobs and the ACC was the tougher conference all along.

Kansas would take the first ticket offered out of your “best basketball conference”. Microcosm Boy, that’s your new nickname.

Kansas will take the first ticket to the Final Four. There isn't a league they can join that is rated higher.

Meanwhile, do you think more Syracuse fans will be tuned into MSG than wherever the ACC is right now? Syracuse fans are tired of being bad in the ACC, just like UConn was tired of being bad in the AAC.

The ACC is in Brooklyn this season, haha. I’m sure there will be a ton of orange in the crowd tomorrow. They have a tough FSU team on their plate, but if they get hot… watch out, sweetheart!!

(03-08-2022 09:21 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:18 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:12 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  Give it up, boy. Nobody cares what you think and it’s obviously another spin agenda. Maybe the old school ACC teams are just better than the noobs and the ACC was the tougher conference all along.

Kansas would take the first ticket offered out of your “best basketball conference”. Microcosm Boy, that’s your new nickname.

Kansas will take the first ticket to the Final Four. There isn't a league they can join that is rated higher.

Meanwhile, do you think more Syracuse fans will be tuned into MSG than wherever the ACC is right now? Syracuse fans are tired of being bad in the ACC, just like UConn was tired of being bad in the AAC.

Yeah, because Syracuse is only "bad" because they're in the ACC? They'd be Final Four bound in any other conference?

Syracuse is playing "Daddy ball" while they are losing out on recruits to Nova, Seton Hall, UConn, et al.
It wasn't supposed to be that way. They share more competition for recruits in their own back yard than they bargained for when the ACC thought they were building a great hoops league.
Let's just leave it at this. ACC Football and Basketball have suffered from the same composition problems, and their killshot to the OBE didn't work out quite the way they had hoped. The ACC is the only autonomy league sharing significant recruiting ground with an Olympic-sports-only league that is eclipsing it.

The ACC’s intent wasn’t to “kill” the Big East. If you follow basketball, you would know Villanova, Seton Hall, G’town, St. John’s etc, weren’t going anywhere. They were always going to put competitive teams on the floor. Look at their history, facilities, recruiting grounds.

Syracuse, Pitt, and BC wanted their football programs in the ACC since 1990 — when Penn State joined the Big Ten. But the ACC wasn’t interested in a hybrid model to house football teams. Miami and VaTech wanted ACC full membership since 1990 and the 1950’s, respectively.

So you can see the writing has been on the wall for a long time. Heck, even Louisville wanted to join the ACC and they’re not even on the coast, or really southern for that matter. FSU always wanted the SEC but they allowed Bowden to talk them into the ACC.

(03-08-2022 11:40 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:42 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I don’t think the new Big East really impacted the ACC differently. That league was reconstituted, but still a known quantity and long-time in-region competitor to the ACC.

However, the big change that the ACC has faced over the past decade is the presence of the Big Ten in the NYC and DMV markets, which are to basketball recruiting as Texas and Florida are to football recruiting. One of the most underrated effects of the Big Ten adding Maryland and Rutgers has been how the Big Ten has turned into the most consistently deep basketball league in the country since expanding directly into those top basketball recruiting regions. The direct Big Ten competition with their financial resources and TV deals is what is really relatively new for the ACC.

Now, that being said, I’m not going to just sleep on UNC getting back to top 10 form or schools like Syracuse getting back to historical levels. This year is more of an anomaly for the lack of ACC depth. To the extent that there’s a newer risk for the ACC, it would be the SEC leveraging their financial resources to becomes as consistently deep as the Big Ten (more years like the current one in the SEC). The SEC adding Texas and Oklahoma, which both have solid basketball histories and support, could impact the league’s hoops depth even beyond where it is now.

This.

I hate that DMV players like Victor Oladipo and Luke Garza went to Midwestern schools. Recruiting McDonalds all-Americans has always been national (e.g., Kevin Durant to Texas) but it’s becoming more common for the next level talent to go out of the ACC footprint. UMCP is really in the middle of a great basketball recruiting market.

The fact that the new Big East has an overlapping footprint with the Big Ten may also help make the Midwestern schools more appealing to kids in the entire DC-Philly-NYC corridor.

Also, I think that the expansion to a 20 game conference season has an impact on perceptions. There are fewer out of conference games and some tough losses carry more weight.

I think this year is a bit of an anomaly with Virginia, FSU, and Louisville having uncharacteristically bad seasons to a significant degree. It will be interesting to see how Duke and Carolina are doing in 3 years as they weather the coaching transitions. I also think the allure of B1G basketball to DMV/New York/Philly kids is overstated. Maryland needs to nail its current coaching search or they could continue to struggle and I don’t think Rutgers will ever be a regular tournament team. As for the Big XII, Baylor and Kansas are obviously elite and should remain that way, and Houston, Iowa State, K-State, and BYU usually good but I don’t see that league consistently putting more teams into the tournament than the ACC.

(03-08-2022 10:02 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 11:40 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:42 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I don’t think the new Big East really impacted the ACC differently. That league was reconstituted, but still a known quantity and long-time in-region competitor to the ACC.

However, the big change that the ACC has faced over the past decade is the presence of the Big Ten in the NYC and DMV markets, which are to basketball recruiting as Texas and Florida are to football recruiting. One of the most underrated effects of the Big Ten adding Maryland and Rutgers has been how the Big Ten has turned into the most consistently deep basketball league in the country since expanding directly into those top basketball recruiting regions. The direct Big Ten competition with their financial resources and TV deals is what is really relatively new for the ACC.

Now, that being said, I’m not going to just sleep on UNC getting back to top 10 form or schools like Syracuse getting back to historical levels. This year is more of an anomaly for the lack of ACC depth. To the extent that there’s a newer risk for the ACC, it would be the SEC leveraging their financial resources to becomes as consistently deep as the Big Ten (more years like the current one in the SEC). The SEC adding Texas and Oklahoma, which both have solid basketball histories and support, could impact the league’s hoops depth even beyond where it is now.

This.

I hate that DMV players like Victor Oladipo and Luke Garza went to Midwestern schools. Recruiting McDonalds all-Americans has always been national (e.g., Kevin Durant to Texas) but it’s becoming more common for the next level talent to go out of the ACC footprint. UMCP is really in the middle of a great basketball recruiting market.

The fact that the new Big East has an overlapping footprint with the Big Ten may also help make the Midwestern schools more appealing to kids in the entire DC-Philly-NYC corridor.

Also, I think that the expansion to a 20 game conference season has an impact on perceptions. There are fewer out of conference games and some tough losses carry more weight.

I think this year is a bit of an anomaly with Virginia, FSU, and Louisville having uncharacteristically bad seasons to a significant degree. It will be interesting to see how Duke and Carolina are doing in 3 years as they weather the coaching transitions. I also think the allure of B1G basketball to DMV/New York/Philly kids is overstated. Maryland needs to nail its current coaching search or they could continue to struggle and I don’t think Rutgers will ever be a regular tournament team. As for the Big XII, Baylor and Kansas are obviously elite and should remain that way, and Houston, Iowa State, K-State, and BYU usually good but I don’t see that league consistently putting more teams into the tournament than the ACC.

The latest conference power rankings as determined by our own Haslametrics.com performance rankings. Over the last couple weeks, the SEC has jumped past the Big East and the Pac-12 has jumped back ahead of the Mountain West.

Replacing two teams from this season’s best conference by the numbers with three teams from the 8th best and one from the 10th best.

Got it. Maybe you should worry about the Pac 12.

(03-08-2022 09:42 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:12 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  Give it up, boy. Nobody cares what you think and it’s obviously another spin agenda. Maybe the old school ACC teams are just better than the noobs and the ACC was the tougher conference all along.

Kansas would take the first ticket offered out of your “best basketball conference”. Microcosm Boy, that’s your new nickname.

Kansas will take the first ticket to the Final Four. There isn't a league they can join that is rated higher.

Meanwhile, do you think more Syracuse fans will be tuned into MSG than wherever the ACC is right now? Syracuse fans are tired of being bad in the ACC, just like UConn was tired of being bad in the AAC.

The ACC is in Brooklyn this season, haha. I’m sure there will be a ton of orange in the crowd tomorrow. They have a tough FSU team on their plate, but if they get hot… watch out, sweetheart!!

Which IMO makes zero sense.

Yeah, back when Maryland was in the ACC, I was one of the DMVers who complained that the tourney seemed to be held in Greensboro or Charlotte every year. So I'm not against moving it around the core footprint a bit.

But Brooklyn? That is just plain dumb, IMO. Brooklyn has about as much ACC content as does New Orleans. Would be like the SEC playing its tournament in, I don't know, Dallas. Or Chicago.

Just doesn't fit.

(03-09-2022 08:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:42 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:12 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  Give it up, boy. Nobody cares what you think and it’s obviously another spin agenda. Maybe the old school ACC teams are just better than the noobs and the ACC was the tougher conference all along.

Kansas would take the first ticket offered out of your “best basketball conference”. Microcosm Boy, that’s your new nickname.

Kansas will take the first ticket to the Final Four. There isn't a league they can join that is rated higher.

Meanwhile, do you think more Syracuse fans will be tuned into MSG than wherever the ACC is right now? Syracuse fans are tired of being bad in the ACC, just like UConn was tired of being bad in the AAC.

The ACC is in Brooklyn this season, haha. I’m sure there will be a ton of orange in the crowd tomorrow. They have a tough FSU team on their plate, but if they get hot… watch out, sweetheart!!

Which IMO makes zero sense.

Yeah, back when Maryland was in the ACC, I was one of the DMVers who complained that the tourney seemed to be held in Greensboro or Charlotte every year. So I'm not against moving it around the core footprint a bit.

But Brooklyn? That is just plain dumb, IMO. Brooklyn has about as much ACC content as does New Orleans. Would be like the SEC playing its tournament in, I don't know, Dallas. Or Chicago.

Just doesn't fit.

I wouldn't go that far - Syracuse arguably has the largest basketball fan base of any school in NYC and, as I've shown in other threads, Duke actually sends its grads to the NYC market on par as the typical state flagship sends it grads to its largest in-state market (e.g. Illinois grads to Chicago, UGA grads to Atlanta, Maryland grads to DC). Notre Dame, BC, Pitt, Miami and even core ACC schools like UVA and UNC send many more grads to NYC than any ACC market outside of their respective home states. Whether we'll ever get used to it or not, the ACC considers the NYC market to be a core part of its footprint just as the Big Ten does.

So, it's not like the SEC playing its tournament in Chicago (where there's absolutely no connection), but you actually give a good example of where this is akin to the SEC playing its tournament in Dallas. That prospect may sound weird now, but in the *new* SEC with Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Arkansas, playing a tournament in Dallas is actually quite reasonable and, in fact, I'd be surprised if the SEC *didn't* hold its tournament there or in other Texas markets like Houston and San Antonio regularly going forward. Conference realignment means breaking through our old notions of what the "key markets" are for different conferences.

The president of the company for which I work is a Duke grad (he's about 65) and is very connected to the university and its men's hoops program. He said Duke offers a significant number of graduates living in the NYC area. So does UNC, for that matter.

New York seems like a very solid location for the ACC tourney.

(03-09-2022 08:45 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-09-2022 08:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:42 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:12 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  Give it up, boy. Nobody cares what you think and it’s obviously another spin agenda. Maybe the old school ACC teams are just better than the noobs and the ACC was the tougher conference all along.

Kansas would take the first ticket offered out of your “best basketball conference”. Microcosm Boy, that’s your new nickname.

Kansas will take the first ticket to the Final Four. There isn't a league they can join that is rated higher.

Meanwhile, do you think more Syracuse fans will be tuned into MSG than wherever the ACC is right now? Syracuse fans are tired of being bad in the ACC, just like UConn was tired of being bad in the AAC.

The ACC is in Brooklyn this season, haha. I’m sure there will be a ton of orange in the crowd tomorrow. They have a tough FSU team on their plate, but if they get hot… watch out, sweetheart!!

Which IMO makes zero sense.

Yeah, back when Maryland was in the ACC, I was one of the DMVers who complained that the tourney seemed to be held in Greensboro or Charlotte every year. So I'm not against moving it around the core footprint a bit.

But Brooklyn? That is just plain dumb, IMO. Brooklyn has about as much ACC content as does New Orleans. Would be like the SEC playing its tournament in, I don't know, Dallas. Or Chicago.

Just doesn't fit.

I wouldn't go that far - Syracuse arguably has the largest basketball fan base of any school in NYC and, as I've shown in other threads, Duke actually sends its grads to the NYC market on par as the typical state flagship sends it grads to its largest in-state market (e.g. Illinois grads to Chicago, UGA grads to Atlanta, Maryland grads to DC). Notre Dame, BC, Pitt, Miami and even core ACC schools like UVA and UNC send many more grads to NYC than any ACC market outside of their respective home states. Whether we'll ever get used to it or not, the ACC considers the NYC market to be a core part of its footprint just as the Big Ten does.

So, it's not like the SEC playing its tournament in Chicago (where there's absolutely no connection), but you actually give a good example of where this is akin to the SEC playing its tournament in Dallas. That prospect may sound weird now, but in the *new* SEC with Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Arkansas, playing a tournament in Dallas is actually quite reasonable and, in fact, I'd be surprised if the SEC *didn't* hold its tournament there or in other Texas markets like Houston and San Antonio regularly going forward. Conference realignment means breaking through our old notions of what the "key markets" are for different conferences.

FWIW, I agree that once Texas and Oklahoma join, Dallas would be a reasonable spot for an SEC hoops tournament. Once they join, but not now.

IMO, that would be much more kosher than the ACC playing its hoops in Brooklyn. Austin is to the south of Dallas, Oklahoma is to the north, and Texas and OU already play their red river shootout game there. Both have dominant presences in Dallas. So once those two join, Dallas will be legit SEC country.

In contrast, with just Syracuse anywhere near NYC, I don't see NYC as being anything like ACC country. Sure, the ACC tournament will draw fans to Brooklyn, the ACC is a national hoops brand and can draw fans to a lot of places it doesn't belong. And alumni? Well, the NYC metro area has almost 20 million people. So everyone has alumni there, I imagine.

To me, conference tournaments should be like reunions. You hold them in solid core-footprint places so that the whole conference community can easily come together on its unambiguous home turf to bond. They are IMO about reaffirming and solidifying conference identity, not instruments of turf claiming.

For that reason, I don't think the SEC should hold its tourney in Dallas either, even after TX and OU join. Too far removed from the core areas of the conference.

(03-09-2022 10:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-09-2022 08:45 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-09-2022 08:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:42 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:12 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  Kansas will take the first ticket to the Final Four. There isn't a league they can join that is rated higher.

Meanwhile, do you think more Syracuse fans will be tuned into MSG than wherever the ACC is right now? Syracuse fans are tired of being bad in the ACC, just like UConn was tired of being bad in the AAC.

The ACC is in Brooklyn this season, haha. I’m sure there will be a ton of orange in the crowd tomorrow. They have a tough FSU team on their plate, but if they get hot… watch out, sweetheart!!

Which IMO makes zero sense.

Yeah, back when Maryland was in the ACC, I was one of the DMVers who complained that the tourney seemed to be held in Greensboro or Charlotte every year. So I'm not against moving it around the core footprint a bit.

But Brooklyn? That is just plain dumb, IMO. Brooklyn has about as much ACC content as does New Orleans. Would be like the SEC playing its tournament in, I don't know, Dallas. Or Chicago.

Just doesn't fit.

I wouldn't go that far - Syracuse arguably has the largest basketball fan base of any school in NYC and, as I've shown in other threads, Duke actually sends its grads to the NYC market on par as the typical state flagship sends it grads to its largest in-state market (e.g. Illinois grads to Chicago, UGA grads to Atlanta, Maryland grads to DC). Notre Dame, BC, Pitt, Miami and even core ACC schools like UVA and UNC send many more grads to NYC than any ACC market outside of their respective home states. Whether we'll ever get used to it or not, the ACC considers the NYC market to be a core part of its footprint just as the Big Ten does.

So, it's not like the SEC playing its tournament in Chicago (where there's absolutely no connection), but you actually give a good example of where this is akin to the SEC playing its tournament in Dallas. That prospect may sound weird now, but in the *new* SEC with Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Arkansas, playing a tournament in Dallas is actually quite reasonable and, in fact, I'd be surprised if the SEC *didn't* hold its tournament there or in other Texas markets like Houston and San Antonio regularly going forward. Conference realignment means breaking through our old notions of what the "key markets" are for different conferences.

FWIW, I agree that once Texas and Oklahoma join, Dallas would be a reasonable spot for an SEC hoops tournament. Once they join, but not now.

IMO, that would be much more kosher than the ACC playing its hoops in Brooklyn. Austin is to the south of Dallas, Oklahoma is to the north, and Texas and OU already play their red river shootout game there. Both have dominant presences in Dallas. So once those two join, Dallas will be legit SEC country.

In contrast, with just Syracuse anywhere near NYC, I don't see NYC as being anything like ACC country. Sure, the ACC tournament will draw fans to Brooklyn, the ACC is a national hoops brand and can draw fans to a lot of places it doesn't belong. And alumni? Well, the NYC metro area has almost 20 million people. So everyone has alumni there, I imagine.

To me, conference tournaments should be like reunions. You hold them in solid core-footprint places so that the whole conference community can easily come together on its unambiguous home turf to bond. They are IMO about reaffirming and solidifying conference identity, not instruments of turf claiming.

For that reason, I don't think the SEC should hold its tourney in Dallas either, even after TX and OU join. Too far removed from the core areas of the conference.

The thing is that expansion is almost universally in non-core areas when we’re at the P5 level and, from a small “p” internal political perspective, a league needs to keep those expansion schools happy as well as maximize the value of those expansion markets.

The State of Texas may not be a traditional core area of the SEC, but it’s pretty clear that owning the State of Texas to the same level as it owns its existing markets is a core *strategy* for the SEC. In essence, the entire SEC expansion process is to turn Texas *into* a core area for the league, which means that they can’t let schools as powerful and valuable as Texas and Texas A&M to feel like appendages that aren’t fully integrated into the rest of the league.

It’s similar with respect to the ACC and Big Ten in the NYC market. Now, NYC isn’t anywhere near as good as the State of Texas as a college sports market, but it’s still a core strategy market for those leagues. As a result, it makes sense that they’re investing conference resources (such as league tournaments). The ACC isn’t getting more value by just staying in Charlotte or Greensboro. You don’t need Alabama-level interest and passion to make money in the NYC market - it only needs to be a fraction of that to pay huge dividends. (See Rutgers for BTN revenue.) To the extent that the ACC can grow organically, it needs to be in its Northeastern portion where they have room for growth. Just turning inward is exactly what would make the ACC vulnerable in conference realignment.

I like Brooklyn maybe once or twice a decade. Syracuse, Notre Dame, BC, Duke, Miami, and some of the state schools have a lot of alumni there and it’s the media capital.

If you haven’t been to Greensboro, it’s gotta be one of the best venues for watching basketball. Ain’t a bad seat in the house. The ACC tournament should be held there and Charlotte more often than not. Throw in an occasional Atlanta, Brooklyn, and maybe DC to diversify it a bit. I’m 100% against playing the tournament a week early to get into MSG. Also, never Florida ever again, thanks.

The SEC should opt for Houston rather than Dallas if they’re going to go outside of Nashville.

(03-09-2022 08:14 AM)esayem Wrote:  Replacing two teams from this season’s best conference by the numbers with three teams from the 8th best and one from the 10th best.

Got it. Maybe you should worry about the Pac 12.

They aren't replacing those two teams with the two other conferences, they're replacing them with really good teams from those conferences.

(03-09-2022 11:20 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-09-2022 10:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-09-2022 08:45 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-09-2022 08:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 09:42 PM)esayem Wrote:  The ACC is in Brooklyn this season, haha. I’m sure there will be a ton of orange in the crowd tomorrow. They have a tough FSU team on their plate, but if they get hot… watch out, sweetheart!!

Which IMO makes zero sense.

Yeah, back when Maryland was in the ACC, I was one of the DMVers who complained that the tourney seemed to be held in Greensboro or Charlotte every year. So I'm not against moving it around the core footprint a bit.

But Brooklyn? That is just plain dumb, IMO. Brooklyn has about as much ACC content as does New Orleans. Would be like the SEC playing its tournament in, I don't know, Dallas. Or Chicago.

Just doesn't fit.

I wouldn't go that far - Syracuse arguably has the largest basketball fan base of any school in NYC and, as I've shown in other threads, Duke actually sends its grads to the NYC market on par as the typical state flagship sends it grads to its largest in-state market (e.g. Illinois grads to Chicago, UGA grads to Atlanta, Maryland grads to DC). Notre Dame, BC, Pitt, Miami and even core ACC schools like UVA and UNC send many more grads to NYC than any ACC market outside of their respective home states. Whether we'll ever get used to it or not, the ACC considers the NYC market to be a core part of its footprint just as the Big Ten does.

So, it's not like the SEC playing its tournament in Chicago (where there's absolutely no connection), but you actually give a good example of where this is akin to the SEC playing its tournament in Dallas. That prospect may sound weird now, but in the *new* SEC with Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Arkansas, playing a tournament in Dallas is actually quite reasonable and, in fact, I'd be surprised if the SEC *didn't* hold its tournament there or in other Texas markets like Houston and San Antonio regularly going forward. Conference realignment means breaking through our old notions of what the "key markets" are for different conferences.

FWIW, I agree that once Texas and Oklahoma join, Dallas would be a reasonable spot for an SEC hoops tournament. Once they join, but not now.

IMO, that would be much more kosher than the ACC playing its hoops in Brooklyn. Austin is to the south of Dallas, Oklahoma is to the north, and Texas and OU already play their red river shootout game there. Both have dominant presences in Dallas. So once those two join, Dallas will be legit SEC country.

In contrast, with just Syracuse anywhere near NYC, I don't see NYC as being anything like ACC country. Sure, the ACC tournament will draw fans to Brooklyn, the ACC is a national hoops brand and can draw fans to a lot of places it doesn't belong. And alumni? Well, the NYC metro area has almost 20 million people. So everyone has alumni there, I imagine.

To me, conference tournaments should be like reunions. You hold them in solid core-footprint places so that the whole conference community can easily come together on its unambiguous home turf to bond. They are IMO about reaffirming and solidifying conference identity, not instruments of turf claiming.

For that reason, I don't think the SEC should hold its tourney in Dallas either, even after TX and OU join. Too far removed from the core areas of the conference.

The State of Texas may not be a traditional core area of the SEC, but it’s pretty clear that owning the State of Texas to the same level as it owns its existing markets is a core *strategy* for the SEC. In essence, the entire SEC expansion process is to turn Texas *into* a core area for the league, which means that they can’t let schools as powerful and valuable as Texas and Texas A&M to feel like appendages that aren’t fully integrated into the rest of the league.

Also, DFW wouldn't just be for UT and A&M. It'd be OU's preference and Arkansas and LSU would love it as well. It may not be in the geographic center of the conference, but we're also not talking about trying to hold it in like St. Louis or something. You'd have at least 5 schools that would really be on-board. Not just the new ones or the Texas ones.

(03-09-2022 11:30 AM)esayem Wrote:  I like Brooklyn maybe once or twice a decade. Syracuse, Notre Dame, BC, Duke, Miami, and some of the state schools have a lot of alumni there and it’s the media capital.

If you haven’t been to Greensboro, it’s gotta be one of the best venues for watching basketball. Ain’t a bad seat in the house. The ACC tournament should be held there and Charlotte more often than not. Throw in an occasional Atlanta, Brooklyn, and maybe DC to diversify it a bit. I’m 100% against playing the tournament a week early to get into MSG. Also, never Florida ever again, thanks.

The SEC should opt for Houston rather than Dallas if they’re going to go outside of Nashville.

I agree with all this.

(03-09-2022 11:30 AM)esayem Wrote:  I like Brooklyn maybe once or twice a decade. Syracuse, Notre Dame, BC, Duke, Miami, and some of the state schools have a lot of alumni there and it’s the media capital.

If you haven’t been to Greensboro, it’s gotta be one of the best venues for watching basketball. Ain’t a bad seat in the house. The ACC tournament should be held there and Charlotte more often than not. Throw in an occasional Atlanta, Brooklyn, and maybe DC to diversify it a bit. I’m 100% against playing the tournament a week early to get into MSG. Also, never Florida ever again, thanks.

The SEC should opt for Houston rather than Dallas if they’re going to go outside of Nashville.

Agree that there is a limit to the number of times that the ACC tournament should be held in NYC. NYC provides additional exposure; helps the basketball brands; and attracts a different set of big dollar donors. I would be OK with 2 or 3 times per decade. NYC needs to be leveraged just as much as DC.

I've been to Greensboro frequently. It's a great city with a wonderful venue...the core of the old ACC. I'm sure that Greensboro will be part of the future rotation of ACC tournaments. It attracts the most passionate and knowledgeable fans.

But for the ACC to grow it needs to showcase its assets, and playing regularly in DC and NYC is essential.

I mean, he's not wrong in that the Big East just plugging along as a high-major and fending off the combined B1G/ACC bid for MSG wasn't part of the other conferences' "plans". The sky isn't falling for the ACC, but losing Maryland and BC being dead weight means they have no real presence in the 95 corridor, which doesn't help matters.

(03-09-2022 01:27 PM)Bogg Wrote:  I mean, he's not wrong in that the Big East just plugging along as a high-major and fending off the combined B1G/ACC bid for MSG wasn't part of the other conferences' "plans". The sky isn't falling for the ACC, but losing Maryland and BC being dead weight means they have no real presence in the 95 corridor, which doesn't help matters.

Yeah and that's with Georgetown being absolutely putrid. Feels like there is room to grow even with the Big East.