NC A&T should be on the list. Would think UMass should recognize they’re no longer above average at basketball and just join this new CUSA as well.

(03-30-2022 10:34 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  I feel like the more FBS teams there are, the more likely a split happens within FBS.

Not with the NIL, students being considered employees and the Government is about ready to kill the NCAA which most of the rules were created by the P5 schools, I don't see them breaking away without a major crack down on the P5 schools. With the Alston's case? The case was directed towards the P5 schools as well for profitting from the money from football.

North Carolina A&T
Chattanooga
EKU
SFAU
Tarleton State
McNeese State
Missouri State
UCA
North Alabama
Jackson State
Florida A&M
Tennessee State
Texas Southern
Lamar
Delaware
Towson
Stony Brrok
Youngstown State
Northern Iowa
Illinois State


I would look at.

What I think would be best for C-USA, at least in prestige, is to take the best remaining pieces on the table and just make it work. North Dakota State/South Dakota State and Montana/Montana State would fit that category. But that would probably be a hard swing to sell.

If they only want to slightly expand the footprint Delaware, NC A&T, and Missouri State would all be valuable additions. But I just don't know how interested they are in moving to C-USA at this moment. I'm not sold on Kennesaw State being ready for FBS but they could potentially fit the mold as well.

There are some decent teams that are currently in the footprint, but I feel like either they would face opposition from other members who don't want the local competition or that they wouldn't move the needle enough to warrant another mouth to feed. I put SFA, McNeese, Chatty, and EKU into this category.

Whichever decision C-USA makes will be useful in seeing what the future philosophy of the conference is going to be.

(03-30-2022 11:48 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  What I think would be best for C-USA, at least in prestige, is to take the best remaining pieces on the table and just make it work. North Dakota State/South Dakota State and Montana/Montana State would fit that category. But that would probably be a hard swing to sell.

If they only want to slightly expand the footprint Delaware, NC A&T, and Missouri State would all be valuable additions. But I just don't know how interested they are in moving to C-USA at this moment. I'm not sold on Kennesaw State being ready for FBS but they could potentially fit the mold as well.

There are some decent teams that are currently in the footprint, but I feel like either they would face opposition from other members who don't want the local competition or that they wouldn't move the needle enough to warrant another mouth to feed. I put SFA, McNeese, Chatty, and EKU into this category.

Whichever decision C-USA makes will be useful in seeing what the future philosophy of the conference is going to be.

Chattanooga might be more real accpetive than people think. Basketball and football will do even do more better than C-USA. Chattanooga could be the next Georgia Southern and Appalachian State in FBS in the first few years. I bet Tennessee State is on the phone to Judy begging to let them to join the conference?

(03-30-2022 11:55 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 11:48 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  What I think would be best for C-USA, at least in prestige, is to take the best remaining pieces on the table and just make it work. North Dakota State/South Dakota State and Montana/Montana State would fit that category. But that would probably be a hard swing to sell.

If they only want to slightly expand the footprint Delaware, NC A&T, and Missouri State would all be valuable additions. But I just don't know how interested they are in moving to C-USA at this moment. I'm not sold on Kennesaw State being ready for FBS but they could potentially fit the mold as well.

There are some decent teams that are currently in the footprint, but I feel like either they would face opposition from other members who don't want the local competition or that they wouldn't move the needle enough to warrant another mouth to feed. I put SFA, McNeese, Chatty, and EKU into this category.

Whichever decision C-USA makes will be useful in seeing what the future philosophy of the conference is going to be.

Chattanooga might be more real accpetive than people think. Basketball and football will do even do more better than C-USA. Chattanooga could be the next Georgia Southern and Appalachian State in FBS in the first few years. I bet Tennessee State is on the phone to Judy begging to let them to join the conference?

TSU is a possibility but I personally don't see it. I think they would go to the SWAC first rather than C-USA. The SWAC is also why I didn't include Jackson State or Florida A&M, as I think (as an outsider I will admit) that they see more value being in an HBCU conference than an FBS conference. TSU is a bit different seeing how they were in the OVC but I think my reasoning still stands.

Chatty wouldn't be an awful add, I just don't know if they get the thumbs up from MTSU or WKU. EDIT: It would also put one of MTSU/WKU/JSU/UTC/LU/FIU into the western division, unless 2 western schools were added as well. So division alignment should also be considered when adding only 1 school.

(03-30-2022 12:04 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 11:55 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 11:48 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  What I think would be best for C-USA, at least in prestige, is to take the best remaining pieces on the table and just make it work. North Dakota State/South Dakota State and Montana/Montana State would fit that category. But that would probably be a hard swing to sell.

If they only want to slightly expand the footprint Delaware, NC A&T, and Missouri State would all be valuable additions. But I just don't know how interested they are in moving to C-USA at this moment. I'm not sold on Kennesaw State being ready for FBS but they could potentially fit the mold as well.

There are some decent teams that are currently in the footprint, but I feel like either they would face opposition from other members who don't want the local competition or that they wouldn't move the needle enough to warrant another mouth to feed. I put SFA, McNeese, Chatty, and EKU into this category.

Whichever decision C-USA makes will be useful in seeing what the future philosophy of the conference is going to be.

Chattanooga might be more real accpetive than people think. Basketball and football will do even do more better than C-USA. Chattanooga could be the next Georgia Southern and Appalachian State in FBS in the first few years. I bet Tennessee State is on the phone to Judy begging to let them to join the conference?

TSU is a possibility but I personally don't see it. I think they would go to the SWAC first rather than C-USA. The SWAC is also why I didn't include Jackson State or Florida A&M, as I think (as an outsider I will admit) that they see more value being in an HBCU conference than an FBS conference. TSU is a bit different seeing how they were in the OVC but I think my reasoning still stands.

Chatty wouldn't be an awful add, I just don't know if they get the thumbs up from MTSU or WKU. EDIT: It would also put one of MTSU/WKU/JSU/UTC/LU/FIU into the western division, unless 2 western schools were added as well. So division alignment should also be considered when adding only 1 school.

SoCon have done better in recruitment from a men's basketball aspect than SBC could. If you add Chattanooga? You opened the fertile grounds for recruits that could benifit CUSA as a whole right in the backyards of the SBC.

(03-30-2022 10:02 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 12:04 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(03-29-2022 11:28 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  

(03-29-2022 11:16 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(03-29-2022 10:59 PM)8993 Wrote:  I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

Yeah this is a problem for CUSA.

I thought CUSA would have been smarter trying to form a bridge to the Dakotas rather than build toward FIU with Jax St. MoSt and NDSU/SDSU maybe with a few non FB members thrown in for travel like UNO and UMKC.

CUSA is a lot like the WAC though in that its a great name to have painted on your basketball court. Feels like a real D1 conference unlike a low major.

Easier to build towards FIU (who aren't going anywhere anytime soon) I guess, plus more schools to pick from. There's still a few intriguing options at the FCS level in the south worth at least doing some due diligence on, including (among others):

• Kennesaw State
• North Carolina A&T (who have had FBS ambitions before)
• Chattanooga
• EKU
• SFA
• Tarleton State
• McNeese State (maybe)
• Missouri State
  

Not saying any of them will move the needle significantly, but if a 10 or 12 member lineup can make everyone's life easier logistically, it would be worth looking into.

Some like EKU and Chattanooga mainly exist as fill-ins should WKU/MT move along.

SFA, Tarleton and Kennesaw if they want to get back to 12 and fill in the geography.

West: NMSU, UTEP, SFA, SHU, Tarleton, LaTech
East: WKU, MT, Jax St, Kennesaw, Liberty, FIU

That might help on the travel and keep the conference looking ungodly.

If though you are looking at this from the perspective of money split just adding a 10th might be best since the base distribution from the CFP for the G5 is 1 million per school up to 10 schools. A 10th member for CUSA then is practically guaranteed to pull its weight.

Kennesaw doesn't work. There's already Georgia State and Georgia Tech in Atlanta and UGA less than an hour away. While it has significant campus housing, its still basically a commuter school with many of the kids on campus going home on weekends. Its facilities are all nice and new, but they are small. Basketball supposedly seats 4600, but I'm not sure where. Football is 8300. Baseball and softball are also pretty small.

Don't forget Auburn at less than 2 hours away.

(03-30-2022 12:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 12:04 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 11:55 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 11:48 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  What I think would be best for C-USA, at least in prestige, is to take the best remaining pieces on the table and just make it work. North Dakota State/South Dakota State and Montana/Montana State would fit that category. But that would probably be a hard swing to sell.

If they only want to slightly expand the footprint Delaware, NC A&T, and Missouri State would all be valuable additions. But I just don't know how interested they are in moving to C-USA at this moment. I'm not sold on Kennesaw State being ready for FBS but they could potentially fit the mold as well.

There are some decent teams that are currently in the footprint, but I feel like either they would face opposition from other members who don't want the local competition or that they wouldn't move the needle enough to warrant another mouth to feed. I put SFA, McNeese, Chatty, and EKU into this category.

Whichever decision C-USA makes will be useful in seeing what the future philosophy of the conference is going to be.

Chattanooga might be more real accpetive than people think. Basketball and football will do even do more better than C-USA. Chattanooga could be the next Georgia Southern and Appalachian State in FBS in the first few years. I bet Tennessee State is on the phone to Judy begging to let them to join the conference?

TSU is a possibility but I personally don't see it. I think they would go to the SWAC first rather than C-USA. The SWAC is also why I didn't include Jackson State or Florida A&M, as I think (as an outsider I will admit) that they see more value being in an HBCU conference than an FBS conference. TSU is a bit different seeing how they were in the OVC but I think my reasoning still stands.

Chatty wouldn't be an awful add, I just don't know if they get the thumbs up from MTSU or WKU. EDIT: It would also put one of MTSU/WKU/JSU/UTC/LU/FIU into the western division, unless 2 western schools were added as well. So division alignment should also be considered when adding only 1 school.

SoCon have done better in recruitment from a men's basketball aspect than SBC could. If you add Chattanooga? You opened the fertile grounds for recruits that could benifit CUSA as a whole right in the backyards of the SBC.

WKU, MTSU, and Jacksonville State are all in the area of Chattanooga TN. If they can't get access those recruiting grounds with those 3 they'l never get it.

(03-30-2022 11:02 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 10:41 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 10:34 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  I feel like the more FBS teams there are, the more likely a split happens within FBS.

Which is why the AAC/MAC/MWC/SB should have just finished CUSA off and made it a G4 situation when they had the chance. Obviously that means getting "stuck" with a couple of programs you didn't want (or a couple more programs than you wanted to have in your conference, to be a little more optimistic) but it'd also have meant fewer teams at the FBS level overall, fewer FBS schools in your region recruiting against you, etc.

I agree. MWC could have gotten UTEP and then maybe Texas St. MAC takes WKU. At that point MTSU probably has to join WKU in MAC. SB backfills with either LT or FIU. You are left with LT/FIU, NMSU, Liberty, Army, UConn and UMass as independents. Not enough for a conference.

Disagree on MTSU. MTSU has been holding out for the AAC, and I believe that they have a better chance at doing so than LT does at the AAC. The MAC can take WKU and UMass and call it a day.

(03-30-2022 12:25 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  The MAC can take WKU and UMass and call it a day.

So far the MAC hasn't, though. The conference seems to be choosy about No. 14.

Is Middle Tennessee ready to look north to the MAC now that it knows the size and scope of the windfall coming schools departing for the Sun Belt? I wonder.

(03-30-2022 11:02 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 10:41 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 10:34 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  I feel like the more FBS teams there are, the more likely a split happens within FBS.

Which is why the AAC/MAC/MWC/SB should have just finished CUSA off and made it a G4 situation when they had the chance. Obviously that means getting "stuck" with a couple of programs you didn't want (or a couple more programs than you wanted to have in your conference, to be a little more optimistic) but it'd also have meant fewer teams at the FBS level overall, fewer FBS schools in your region recruiting against you, etc.

I agree. MWC could have gotten UTEP and then maybe Texas St. MAC takes WKU. At that point MTSU probably has to join WKU in MAC. SB backfills with either LT or FIU. You are left with LT/FIU, NMSU, Liberty, Army, UConn and UMass as independents. Not enough for a conference.

In my mind, the MWC would have had to take UTEP and could have taken NMSU to balance that (maybe Boise has to move to "west" division). MTSU/WKU go to MAC, and then the 'belt and AAC have to arm wrestle for who has to expand all the way to 16 (by adding Tech and FIU - which works for keeping more or less your same divisional break with either conference). Then you've got no more CUSA (and at least 2 fewer schools at the FBS level).

But I imagine the sell of a G4/fewer FBS schools wasn't quite enough to out-weigh adding schools you didn't want (or who you wouldn't mind having but maybe still give you more schools than you'd have preferred right now).

(03-30-2022 10:53 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 08:27 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 12:04 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  If though you are looking at this from the perspective of money split just adding a 10th might be best since the base distribution from the CFP for the G5 is 1 million per school up to 10 schools. A 10th member for CUSA then is practically guaranteed to pull its weight.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

If the CFP is willing to pay a 9 team CUSA $9 million but would pay a 10 team CUSA $10 million, that's not a case to go to 10 teams at all. Louisiana Tech still gets the same amount of money. Why would any current member care if a 10th school gets more money? That's not "practically guaranteed to pull its weight" that's just "in this one revenue stream a 10th member doesn't make things worse" which isn't really an argument for anything. Especially when you consider that the basketball units don't work that way, for that playoff, we'd just be increasing our denominator for splitting up the money.

True.

10 does promote the concept of splitting into 2 divisions though.

Right. Kind of.

But what's the advantage of that? You can play a conference championship game with 9. You aren't really saving on travel with two 5 team divisions (because you're still playing 4/5 of the other division). It just gives you an unbalanced schedule instead of round robin (and another mouth to feed).

(03-30-2022 11:42 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  North Carolina A&T
Chattanooga
EKU
SFAU
Tarleton State
McNeese State
Missouri State
UCA
North Alabama
Jackson State
Florida A&M
Tennessee State
Texas Southern
Lamar
Delaware
Towson
Stony Brrok
Youngstown State
Northern Iowa
Illinois State


I would look at.

I'd add ETSU. They have decent teams in football, basketball, and baseball.

1st thing C-USA has to do is protect its TV contract & BB tourn.
C-USA did niether with SHST & Jack St. Moving BB tourn to Nashville would help BB tourn.
I would have invited Mass for FB only,
Tex Arlington, Ark LR, Chicago St [CSU would get the same contract as they had in the WAC] for olympic sports.
8 FB would keep CCG.

Now when the water settles, you can look into 1AA.
Maybe somebody in 14 Sun Belt gets desenchanted.
MAC schools could look to split.

(03-30-2022 12:39 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 11:02 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 10:41 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(03-30-2022 10:34 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  I feel like the more FBS teams there are, the more likely a split happens within FBS.

Which is why the AAC/MAC/MWC/SB should have just finished CUSA off and made it a G4 situation when they had the chance. Obviously that means getting "stuck" with a couple of programs you didn't want (or a couple more programs than you wanted to have in your conference, to be a little more optimistic) but it'd also have meant fewer teams at the FBS level overall, fewer FBS schools in your region recruiting against you, etc.

I agree. MWC could have gotten UTEP and then maybe Texas St. MAC takes WKU. At that point MTSU probably has to join WKU in MAC. SB backfills with either LT or FIU. You are left with LT/FIU, NMSU, Liberty, Army, UConn and UMass as independents. Not enough for a conference.

In my mind, the MWC would have had to take UTEP and could have taken NMSU to balance that (maybe Boise has to move to "west" division). MTSU/WKU go to MAC, and then the 'belt and AAC have to arm wrestle for who has to expand all the way to 16 (by adding Tech and FIU - which works for keeping more or less your same divisional break with either conference). Then you've got no more CUSA (and at least 2 fewer schools at the FBS level).

But I imagine the sell of a G4/fewer FBS schools wasn't quite enough to out-weigh adding schools you didn't want (or who you wouldn't mind having but maybe still give you more schools than you'd have preferred right now).

I was rooting for the SBC, MAC, & MWC to collectively see the advantage of eliminating C-USA entirely and consolidating as follows:

MAC: WKU, MTSU
SBC: LA Tech, FIU
MWC: UTEP, NMSU

With the G-leagues at 14, 14, 14, and 16 members respectively it would have cut off the flow of additional programs into FBS and likely raised the going rate for buy games.

I think adding 1 more would be a good move for C-USA and they should try to build a footprint along the KY-TN-AL axis.

(03-30-2022 01:35 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  1st thing C-USA has to do is protect its TV contract & BB tourn.
C-USA did niether with SHST & Jack St. Moving BB tourn to Nashville would help BB tourn.
I would have invited Mass for FB only,
Tex Arlington, Ark LR, Chicago St [CSU would get the same contract as they had in the WAC] for olympic sports.
8 FB would keep CCG.

Now when the water settles, you can look into 1AA.
Maybe somebody in 14 Sun Belt gets desenchanted.
MAC schools could look to split.

This doesn't make sense. Like, any of it. Can you explain?

What do you mean "protect" the BB tournament? Like you think it's not going to happen now? We're getting better on average in basketball. Obviously we'll still have a tournament. And I'm not sure it matters where we play it or why Nashville is better than Dallas (or anywhere else) for it.

Why in the world would we want UMass for football? What does that do? They're awful at football (and very far from every other team). And it gives us 10 teams instead of the superior football number of 9. It's like a lose-lose-lose-lose proposition to add UMass football to CUSA.

(03-29-2022 11:28 PM)Cruhawk Wrote:  

(03-29-2022 11:16 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(03-29-2022 10:59 PM)8993 Wrote:  I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

Yeah this is a problem for CUSA.

I thought CUSA would have been smarter trying to form a bridge to the Dakotas rather than build toward FIU with Jax St. MoSt and NDSU/SDSU maybe with a few non FB members thrown in for travel like UNO and UMKC.

CUSA is a lot like the WAC though in that its a great name to have painted on your basketball court. Feels like a real D1 conference unlike a low major.

Easier to build towards FIU (who aren't going anywhere anytime soon) I guess, plus more schools to pick from. There's still a few intriguing options at the FCS level in the south worth at least doing some due diligence on, including (among others):

• Kennesaw State
• North Carolina A&T (who have had FBS ambitions before)
• Chattanooga
• EKU
• SFA
• Tarleton State
• McNeese State (maybe)
• Missouri State
  

Not saying any of them will move the needle significantly, but if a 10 or 12 member lineup can make everyone's life easier logistically, it would be worth looking into.

CUSA needs to identify what competitive advantage they can exploit to remain competitive with the other G5s on the field and in the TV contracts. I don't see any evidence of that plan when names like Northwestern St., McNeese St., etc. are being tossed about that have little name recognition and fans aren't even sure what state they are located in (looking at you too Jax St.). Schools that are, generously and at best, borderline like Eastern Kentucky, Chattanooga, and such equally do not represent a competitive advantage for CUSA.

I see two roads that CUSA can take to create a competitive advantage - which is something that should be durable and hard to replicate for the other conferences:

1. State flagships/flagship adjacents - the Dakota schools, the Montana schools, and Delaware being the obvious ones. Approaching these schools as FB-only members would give CUSA some state flagships, which only the Mountain West has. These schools are recognizable names and some of them have well-known reputations despite being in FCS (NDSU and Montana chiefly).

2. HBCUs - no HBCUs are in FBS currently. There's several big name HBCUs that have reasonable fan bases and reasonable attendance. The problem is whether there's money to support them in FBS. I don't pretend to know a lot about each individual HBCU, but there are a few that at least already have workable stadium solutions, unlike many of the FCS non-flagship programs previously mentioned.

The only other thing worth considering is growth potential. Most of these FCS schools are still in FCS because their growth is limited and their funding is limited. Kennesaw State would seem to be the only non-flagship, non-HBCU that has high growth potential of the names that get bandied about. Eastern Kentucky, McNeese St., Tarleton St., SFA, etc. aren't going to grow into the next UCF or UTSA. They just aren't. If the goal is simply to have numbers enough to survive another raid, then by all means, add these schools. But they're not going to move the meter in terms of CUSA's value and perception.

Maybe Jacksonville St should change their name to East Alabama so people know where they are located.