(04-21-2022 09:37 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:29 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:22 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:05 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 08:42 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Surprised he didn't announce a year in advance and have a retirement tour where the expectation was that he'd be honored and presented with gifts at away games.

In all seriousness, Jay Wright seems to be universally respected. Great coach and seemingly a good guy, i think he got it right. I see these coaches coaching well into their 70s and I think its a mistake. Retire at 60 and devote yourself to your family. Well done, Jay.

I see what you did there.... LOL He's also not the GOAT.. He is though a Very very good coach

I'm honestly shocked to see this, especially given how frequently he's been to the final 4 lately. If he stuck around another year or 2 real chance to go out on top.

I didn't mention Wooden.

You tell me to take off my blinders, remove my UNC hate and think objectively all the time. I'm asking you to do the same here. I don't like Duke either, or K. But You can't deny what he accomplished over his career even as much as you obviously hate them/him.

What makes Coach K better than Dean Smith?

More wins, more final 4 appearances, 5 titles to 2? Pretty cut n dry on that one. And Dean was a great coach. Dean was the coach long before my UNC hate became a thing.

(04-21-2022 09:47 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:37 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:29 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:22 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:05 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  I see what you did there.... LOL He's also not the GOAT.. He is though a Very very good coach

I'm honestly shocked to see this, especially given how frequently he's been to the final 4 lately. If he stuck around another year or 2 real chance to go out on top.

I didn't mention Wooden.

You tell me to take off my blinders, remove my UNC hate and think objectively all the time. I'm asking you to do the same here. I don't like Duke either, or K. But You can't deny what he accomplished over his career even as much as you obviously hate them/him.

What makes Coach K better than Dean Smith?

More wins, more final 4 appearances, 5 titles to 2? Pretty cut n dry on that one. And Dean was a great coach. Dean was the coach long before my UNC hate became a thing.

Coach K is universally recognized as a better coach, right? Not because more wins, Dean Smith holds a higher winning percentage than Coach K, so it's not just because he coached in more games. Final Fours was 13-11; K has the advantage, but it's not a differentiator. It comes down to championships. If championships is what separates Dean and K, it only makes sense to apply the same standard to K vs Wooden.

My joke wasn't aimed at K's coaching legacy. He was a great coach, but he's always been narcissistic and he didn't deserve a retirement tour more than anyone else. He made it about himself and even has he was championing "the program" he had the team and former players wear shirts with a K replacing the D. He kept Duke on par with Carolina the past 42 years, but he is and has always been his own biggest fan. Just ask William Avery's mom.

(04-21-2022 09:56 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:47 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:37 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:29 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:22 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  I didn't mention Wooden.

You tell me to take off my blinders, remove my UNC hate and think objectively all the time. I'm asking you to do the same here. I don't like Duke either, or K. But You can't deny what he accomplished over his career even as much as you obviously hate them/him.

What makes Coach K better than Dean Smith?

More wins, more final 4 appearances, 5 titles to 2? Pretty cut n dry on that one. And Dean was a great coach. Dean was the coach long before my UNC hate became a thing.

Coach K is universally recognized as a better coach, right? Not because more wins, Dean Smith holds a higher winning percentage than Coach K, so it's not just because he coached in more games. Final Fours was 13-11; K has the advantage, but it's not a differentiator. It comes down to championships. If championships is what separates Dean and K, it only makes sense to apply the same standard to K vs Wooden.

My joke wasn't aimed at K's coaching legacy. He was a great coach, but he's always been narcissistic and he didn't deserve a retirement tour more than anyone else. He made it about himself and even has he was championing "the program" he had the team and former players wear shirts with a K replacing the D. He kept Duke on par with Carolina the past 42 years, but he is and has always been his own biggest fan. Just ask William Avery's mom.

The winning % isn't really a valid argument as K took over a Duke program that wasn't a winning program. Dean took over a program that was already a winner and made it better. Point being, he didn't have the learning curve rebuilding a program where losses would skew that %. K had only 4 seasons with double digit losses since 1985, that's absurd. In comparison, Dean had 3 such seasons in just his last 10 years.

As i said, IMO i'd take K over Wooden, but it's certainly a legit argument. But hard to compare eras. Much of Wooden's success came in an era where you had to win 2 games to get to the final 4.

(04-21-2022 10:12 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:56 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:47 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:37 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 09:29 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  You tell me to take off my blinders, remove my UNC hate and think objectively all the time. I'm asking you to do the same here. I don't like Duke either, or K. But You can't deny what he accomplished over his career even as much as you obviously hate them/him.

What makes Coach K better than Dean Smith?

More wins, more final 4 appearances, 5 titles to 2? Pretty cut n dry on that one. And Dean was a great coach. Dean was the coach long before my UNC hate became a thing.

Coach K is universally recognized as a better coach, right? Not because more wins, Dean Smith holds a higher winning percentage than Coach K, so it's not just because he coached in more games. Final Fours was 13-11; K has the advantage, but it's not a differentiator. It comes down to championships. If championships is what separates Dean and K, it only makes sense to apply the same standard to K vs Wooden.

My joke wasn't aimed at K's coaching legacy. He was a great coach, but he's always been narcissistic and he didn't deserve a retirement tour more than anyone else. He made it about himself and even has he was championing "the program" he had the team and former players wear shirts with a K replacing the D. He kept Duke on par with Carolina the past 42 years, but he is and has always been his own biggest fan. Just ask William Avery's mom.

The winning % isn't really a valid argument as K took over a Duke program that wasn't a winning program. Dean took over a program that was already a winner and made it better. Point being, he didn't have the learning curve rebuilding a program where losses would skew that %. K had only 4 seasons with double digit losses since 1985, that's absurd.

With all due respect, this is factually incorrect. Not a little off, way, way off. Dean took over a program on probation. K took over a program that went to the F4 three years before he arrived, and he inherited a team that went 24-9 and went to the Elite 8.

The winning percentage is absolutely a valid argument. In Dean's first year, he coached 17 games; K coached 30. Dean didn't coach a 30 game schedule until year 6. Winning percentage is relevant.

(04-21-2022 09:29 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  K had only 4 seasons with double digit losses since 1985, that's absurd.

That is impressive, but Duke had 5 double-digit losing seasons since 1985. I get that K had 1995 struck from his record, but his team still played games. I refuse to pretend that year didn't exist.

(04-21-2022 10:12 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  K had only 4 seasons with double digit losses since 1985, that's absurd. In comparison, Dean had 3 such seasons in just his last 10 years.

It is true that he had 3 double-digit loss seasons over his last 10 seasons. That is one way to frame his record. You could also say that he had 3 over his last 31 seasons and it would also be accurate.

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of this comparison though. I've already said that K is universally accepted as being higher on the list than Smith. If I were arguing that K wasn't a great coach, or that Smith were better, I would point out Dean's record against K. But I'm not making that argument. I am stating that Wooden is the best coach of all-time and that K is a narcissistic tool that put himself above the players and the program.

(04-21-2022 10:37 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 10:12 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  K had only 4 seasons with double digit losses since 1985, that's absurd. In comparison, Dean had 3 such seasons in just his last 10 years.

It is true that he had 3 double-digit loss seasons over his last 10 seasons. That is one way to frame his record. You could also say that he had 3 over his last 31 seasons and it would also be accurate.

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of this comparison though. I've already said that K is universally accepted as being higher on the list than Smith. If I were arguing that K wasn't a great coach, or that Smith were better, I would point out Dean's record against K. But I'm not making that argument. I am stating that Wooden is the best coach of all-time and that K is a narcissistic tool that put himself above the players and the program.

And like i said, the K- Wooden argument is debatable, but it is hard to compare eras, for many of the reasons i noted above. The last comment is clear UNC bias and hatred for Duke. You asked why K was better than Dean, only reason i even spent time to debate it.

(04-21-2022 08:42 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-20-2022 08:27 PM)geezerhawkdad Wrote:  Jay Wright is retiring at Villanova. Kyle Neptune, a former Villanova assistant who left to be head coach at Fordham, is returning to be head coach at Villanova.

Surprised he didn't announce a year in advance and have a retirement tour where the expectation was that he'd be honored and presented with gifts at away games.

In all seriousness, Jay Wright seems to be universally respected. Great coach and seemingly a good guy, i think he got it right. I see these coaches coaching well into their 70s and I think its a mistake. Retire at 60 and devote yourself to your family. Well done, Jay.

From what I know of the man, I'm fairly confident he didn't want a farewell tour. Although not a Jay Bilas fan, he nails it with his opinion piece:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket...-needs-him

(04-21-2022 11:06 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 10:37 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 10:12 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  K had only 4 seasons with double digit losses since 1985, that's absurd. In comparison, Dean had 3 such seasons in just his last 10 years.

It is true that he had 3 double-digit loss seasons over his last 10 seasons. That is one way to frame his record. You could also say that he had 3 over his last 31 seasons and it would also be accurate.

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of this comparison though. I've already said that K is universally accepted as being higher on the list than Smith. If I were arguing that K wasn't a great coach, or that Smith were better, I would point out Dean's record
against K. But I'm not making that argument. I am stating that Wooden is the best coach of all-time and that K is a narcissistic tool that put himself above the players and the program.

And like i said, the K- Wooden argument is debatable, but it is hard to compare eras, for many of the reasons i noted above. The last comment is clear UNC bias and hatred for Duke. You asked why K was better than Dean, only reason i even spent time to debate it.

If double-digit losing seasons and a misperception about the inherited programs was a counter to the winning percentage discussion, I think you missed like Javy Baez swinging for the fences on a slider in the LH batters box.

(04-21-2022 11:06 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  The last comment is clear UNC bias and hatred for Duke.

Obviously bias, but his farewell tour supports my argument in a strong way.

(04-21-2022 11:26 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:06 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 10:37 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 10:12 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  K had only 4 seasons with double digit losses since 1985, that's absurd. In comparison, Dean had 3 such seasons in just his last 10 years.

It is true that he had 3 double-digit loss seasons over his last 10 seasons. That is one way to frame his record. You could also say that he had 3 over his last 31 seasons and it would also be accurate.

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of this comparison though. I've already said that K is universally accepted as being higher on the list than Smith. If I were arguing that K wasn't a great coach, or that Smith were better, I would point out Dean's record
against K. But I'm not making that argument. I am stating that Wooden is the best coach of all-time and that K is a narcissistic tool that put himself above the players and the program.

And like i said, the K- Wooden argument is debatable, but it is hard to compare eras, for many of the reasons i noted above. The last comment is clear UNC bias and hatred for Duke. You asked why K was better than Dean, only reason i even spent time to debate it.

If double-digit losing seasons and a misperception about the inherited programs was a counter to the winning percentage discussion, I think you missed like Javy Baez swinging for the fences on a slider in the LH batters box.

Not sure how you could even make that argument with K and Dean. Dean inherited a winner K did not that's factual.

(04-21-2022 11:38 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:26 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:06 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 10:37 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 10:12 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  K had only 4 seasons with double digit losses since 1985, that's absurd. In comparison, Dean had 3 such seasons in just his last 10 years.

It is true that he had 3 double-digit loss seasons over his last 10 seasons. That is one way to frame his record. You could also say that he had 3 over his last 31 seasons and it would also be accurate.

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of this comparison though. I've already said that K is universally accepted as being higher on the list than Smith. If I were arguing that K wasn't a great coach, or that Smith were better, I would point out Dean's record
against K. But I'm not making that argument. I am stating that Wooden is the best coach of all-time and that K is a narcissistic tool that put himself above the players and the program.

And like i said, the K- Wooden argument is debatable, but it is hard to compare eras, for many of the reasons i noted above. The last comment is clear UNC bias and hatred for Duke. You asked why K was better than Dean, only reason i even spent time to debate it.

If double-digit losing seasons and a misperception about the inherited programs was a counter to the winning percentage discussion, I think you missed like Javy Baez swinging for the fences on a slider in the LH batters box.

Not sure how you could even make that argument with K and Dean. Dean inherited a winner K did not that's factual.

K inherited a team coming off a F4 and Elite 8 in the three years preceding his hire. Dean inherited a team on probation. Those are facts.

Your opinion is that Dean inherited a winner and K did not. If you want to hold that opinion despite what I've shared, that is fine, but it doesn't make it factual.

(04-21-2022 11:47 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:38 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:26 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:06 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 10:37 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  It is true that he had 3 double-digit loss seasons over his last 10 seasons. That is one way to frame his record. You could also say that he had 3 over his last 31 seasons and it would also be accurate.

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of this comparison though. I've already said that K is universally accepted as being higher on the list than Smith. If I were arguing that K wasn't a great coach, or that Smith were better, I would point out Dean's record
against K. But I'm not making that argument. I am stating that Wooden is the best coach of all-time and that K is a narcissistic tool that put himself above the players and the program.

And like i said, the K- Wooden argument is debatable, but it is hard to compare eras, for many of the reasons i noted above. The last comment is clear UNC bias and hatred for Duke. You asked why K was better than Dean, only reason i even spent time to debate it.

If double-digit losing seasons and a misperception about the inherited programs was a counter to the winning percentage discussion, I think you missed like Javy Baez swinging for the fences on a slider in the LH batters box.

Not sure how you could even make that argument with K and Dean. Dean inherited a winner K did not that's factual.

K inherited a team coming off a F4 and Elite 8 in the three years preceding his hire. Dean inherited a team on probation. Those are facts.

Your opinion is that Dean inherited a winner and K did not. If you want to hold that opinion despite what I've shared, that is fine, but it doesn't make it factual.

Duke had three good years before K took over. The previous 6 seasons the best record was 1 game over .500. in the seasons before Dean took over, 32-0, 19-7, 20-5, 18-6, 19-4. In the previous 19 seasons before Dean took over the had a losing season twice? How is this even a debate. You are a UNC fan. And you know damn well they had a history of winning before Dean got there. K Struggled early in his career to build a winner, once he got it there it stayed for pretty much the entire duration of his tenue. It has nothing to do with opinion it's looking at the history and passing obvious conclusions. Most Duke fans I know Gave Dean and Roy their Due when they retired, UNC fans just don't have it in them to be classy.

(04-21-2022 11:59 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:47 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:38 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:26 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:06 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  And like i said, the K- Wooden argument is debatable, but it is hard to compare eras, for many of the reasons i noted above. The last comment is clear UNC bias and hatred for Duke. You asked why K was better than Dean, only reason i even spent time to debate it.

If double-digit losing seasons and a misperception about the inherited programs was a counter to the winning percentage discussion, I think you missed like Javy Baez swinging for the fences on a slider in the LH batters box.

Not sure how you could even make that argument with K and Dean. Dean inherited a winner K did not that's factual.

K inherited a team coming off a F4 and Elite 8 in the three years preceding his hire. Dean inherited a team on probation. Those are facts.

Your opinion is that Dean inherited a winner and K did not. If you want to hold that opinion despite what I've shared, that is fine, but it doesn't make it factual.

Duke had three good years before K took over. The previous 6 seasons the best record was 1 game over .500. in the seasons before Dean took over, 32-0, 19-7, 20-5, 18-6, 19-4. In the previous 19 seasons before Dean took over the had a losing season twice? How is this even a debate. You are a UNC fan. And you know damn well they had a history of winning before Dean got there. K Struggled early in his career to build a winner, once he got it there it stayed for pretty much the entire duration of his tenue. It has nothing to do with opinion it's looking at the history and passing obvious conclusions. Most Duke fans I know Gave Dean and Roy their Due when they retired, UNC fans just don't have it in them to be classy.

Classy? What in the hell are you talking about? You don't think inheriting a team on probation is significant? NCSU had a history of winning when Les Robinson took over. Do you think the program being on probation helped or hurt his chances at success?

I said Coach K was a great coach. He's also a jerk like his mentor Bobby Knight. Is it okay to call Knight a jerk, or is that lacking class? He didn't invent Duke basketball. The program went to three F4s in the 60s, plus '78, and went to a championship game in both decades as well.

You're talking about success Carolina had in the 50s as if Dean just threw the car in drive and set the cruise. That is utterly stupid and factually incorrect. In terms of influence on the game there is no comparison between Dean and K.

I agree with you that Carolina is the better program, but your willingness to just accept that Duke didn't play basketball before 1980 is wrong. If that isn't classy to say, so be it. Duke fans applauded Dean when he was recognized at the ACC tournament as a legend. Carolina fans will do the same for K in a few years. Neither fan base is going to go out of their way to praise the other.

Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
·
25m
Sources: Clemson's Brad Brownell will hire both Billy Donlon and Middle Tennessee's Sean Dixon as assistant coaches.

Donlon was previously the head coach at both Kansas City and Wright State.

Is all of this because someone made a joke about Coach K's retirement tour?

Haha. How entertaining.

(04-21-2022 01:36 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
·
25m
Sources: Clemson's Brad Brownell will hire both Billy Donlon and Middle Tennessee's Sean Dixon as assistant coaches.

Donlon was previously the head coach at both Kansas City and Wright State.

Donlon was before my time, but I like the connection. I'm always rooting for Brad to have success at Clemson. He will always be one of my favorites.

(04-21-2022 02:04 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 01:36 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
·
25m
Sources: Clemson's Brad Brownell will hire both Billy Donlon and Middle Tennessee's Sean Dixon as assistant coaches.

Donlon was previously the head coach at both Kansas City and Wright State.

Donlon was before my time, but I like the connection. I'm always rooting for Brad to have success at Clemson. He will always be one of my favorites.

Same here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

(04-21-2022 04:21 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 02:04 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 01:36 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
·
25m
Sources: Clemson's Brad Brownell will hire both Billy Donlon and Middle Tennessee's Sean Dixon as assistant coaches.

Donlon was previously the head coach at both Kansas City and Wright State.

Donlon was before my time, but I like the connection. I'm always rooting for Brad to have success at Clemson. He will always be one of my favorites.

Same here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

interesting to see Billy come full circle back to BB. He did ok when BB first left him at Wright State but then fell off thereafter and was subsequently let go.

(04-21-2022 12:12 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:59 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:47 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:38 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(04-21-2022 11:26 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  If double-digit losing seasons and a misperception about the inherited programs was a counter to the winning percentage discussion, I think you missed like Javy Baez swinging for the fences on a slider in the LH batters box.

Not sure how you could even make that argument with K and Dean. Dean inherited a winner K did not that's factual.

K inherited a team coming off a F4 and Elite 8 in the three years preceding his hire. Dean inherited a team on probation. Those are facts.

Your opinion is that Dean inherited a winner and K did not. If you want to hold that opinion despite what I've shared, that is fine, but it doesn't make it factual.

Duke had three good years before K took over. The previous 6 seasons the best record was 1 game over .500. in the seasons before Dean took over, 32-0, 19-7, 20-5, 18-6, 19-4. In the previous 19 seasons before Dean took over the had a losing season twice? How is this even a debate. You are a UNC fan. And you know damn well they had a history of winning before Dean got there. K Struggled early in his career to build a winner, once he got it there it stayed for pretty much the entire duration of his tenue. It has nothing to do with opinion it's looking at the history and passing obvious conclusions. Most Duke fans I know Gave Dean and Roy their Due when they retired, UNC fans just don't have it in them to be classy.

Classy? What in the hell are you talking about? You don't think inheriting a team on probation is significant? NCSU had a history of winning when Les Robinson took over. Do you think the program being on probation helped or hurt his chances at success?

I said Coach K was a great coach. He's also a jerk like his mentor Bobby Knight. Is it okay to call Knight a jerk, or is that lacking class? He didn't invent Duke basketball. The program went to three F4s in the 60s, plus '78, and went to a championship game in both decades as well.

You're talking about success Carolina had in the 50s as if Dean just threw the car in drive and set the cruise. That is utterly stupid and factually incorrect. In terms of influence on the game there is no comparison between Dean and K.

I agree with you that Carolina is the better program, but your willingness to just accept that Duke didn't play basketball before 1980 is wrong. If that isn't classy to say, so be it. Duke fans applauded Dean when he was recognized at the ACC tournament as a legend. Carolina fans will do the same for K in a few years. Neither fan base is going to go out of their way to praise the other.

I laid out to you the records before each coach took over, you focus on a 2/3 year period, sorry I prefer a larger sample size. As usual, we are splitting hairs. If you were given either coach in your prime to build your D1 program you'd likely end up pretty damn happy in the end let's just leave it at that.

To more important things. Siddle just got a two year contract extension. Includes new incentives. Hope it also includes a bigger buyout clause.

(04-22-2022 01:58 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  To more important things. Siddle just got a two year contract extension. Includes new incentives. Hope it also includes a bigger buyout clause.

Interesting, I was hoping that would wait one more year. But I do agree, I hope we have learned from past mistakes and it has a huge buyout


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