(04-14-2022 10:41 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(04-14-2022 02:26 PM)tigtoodawg Wrote:  Unfortunately, it not always about on the field/court metrics, but about perception in the media and media markets. Tech used to be known to "play anywhere anyone, anytime" or QB U or Kicker U. We've had the graces to have beaten Bama twice, MSU (Mississippi St and Michigan St), Illinois, Navy and many other P5's. BUT, only thing most people remember is the Cinderella story of App State beating Michigan. App State is still known for that, by the way I didn't hear about the Jax State FSU win this year because the narrative wasn't what the media wanted. It's tough, but stand tall, and trust and believe that this move is the right thing!

For fun, go to YouTube and watch La Tech versus Michigan State game. One of the best last minute comebacks I've ever seen.

And Welcome!

App State at the Big House is absolutely one of the most famous underdog wins across all sports, it's one of the few sporting events that didn't involve one of my teams and was not a National Championship/Super Bowl etc. that I can tell you *exactly* where I was(tailgating at Lockhart before MT @ FAU).

The circumstances of that game were pretty special, opening weekend at the Big House, one of the biggest upsets in the history of the sport won in one of the more dramatic ways a football game can end.

I don't know the circumstances of the game itself between La Tech and Alabama in 1999. I do know that was an eventual 10 win SEC champion you beat, but even just the difference in coverage in 1999 and 2007 anc opening weekend vs third weekend of the season, I wouldn't be surprised if more people saw the highlights of App State at the Big House within 24 hours of it happening than the total number of people that have ever seen the highlights of La Tech over Bama.

As for Jax State over FSU, that was not a good FSU team and the last five years in general, the program is at it's lowest point in more than 40 years. I'm curious what you believe the narrative should have been.

Our win was dramatic. Last second win over a DB who quit and yes FSU wasnt FSU of the past but 11 was good. Anti FSU posters on twitter are still giving us social media press.

I had forgotten about App's win over Michigan until we were invited to CUSA and started reading the FBS boards. Most boards dont talk about games decades ago on a regular basis. Yes, App has done a wonderful job milking that win. Cant think of any other school who has came close to exploiting a win. Next closest in our area would be Auburns 17-16 win over UAT in the 70s?

Our OT win over Ole Miss was probably given more press.

(04-14-2022 06:12 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  Would it be deemed "going out on a limb" to say that I fully expect the 9-team CUSA to rank above the 14-team Sun Belch in YEAR ONE, cumulatively, in both Football-Sagarin AND Basketball-NET?

In football, CUSA and SBC will essentially be even. AAC will have a slight advantage over both.

In MBB, even given weakening from the realignment, AAC will have a decided advantage. CUSA will be next. SBC will be far behind.

In baseball, SBC will be way ahead. AAC and CUSA will be close.

(04-15-2022 10:56 AM)whupemall Wrote:  

(04-14-2022 06:12 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  Would it be deemed "going out on a limb" to say that I fully expect the 9-team CUSA to rank above the 14-team Sun Belch in YEAR ONE, cumulatively, in both Football-Sagarin AND Basketball-NET?

In football, CUSA and SBC will essentially be even. AAC will have a slight advantage over both.

In MBB, even given weakening from the realignment, AAC will have a decided advantage. CUSA will be next. SBC will be far behind.

In baseball, SBC will be way ahead. AAC and CUSA will be close.

I think it is too early to say on most of these fronts. With the way the transfer portal works all of the teams in question could be vastly different between today and 2023-24. Even this coming season will be difficult to predict at this stage. ESPN has released their FPI for 2022 and we can use it to play the "what if" game. If all realignment was done starting in the Fall, these are the averages.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/fpi

It won't have Jacksonville State or SHSU on it (can assume around 120 since that is what JMU was rated), but using the rest of their numbers we have:

SBC - 94.36 AVG - 7/14 better than 100 - App State is their best at 53.

C-USA - 96.4 AVG for the C-USA 5 - 103.22 AVG for all 9 eventual programs - 4/9 better than 100 - WKU is best at 65.

AAC - 82.5 AVG for remaining AAC 8 - 85.64 AVG for all 14 eventual programs - 10/14 better than 100 - Memphis is best at 51.

Big XII - 42.13 AVG for remaining 8 - 41.42 AVG for all 12 eventual programs - all 12 better than 100 - Oklahoma State is best at 13.

MAC - 108 AVG - 4/12 above 100 - Toledo is best at 68.

MWC - 93.58 AVG - 6/12 above 100 - Boise State best at 47.

Some thoughts.

Losing Texas and Oklahoma hurts the Big XII, but adding the 4 they did doesn't dilute what was left, it actually improves it.

The SBC is a little diluted for now until USM gets back on track and JMU adjusts to FBS.

The AAC takes a step back at the top but has a solid middle to build around. Time will tell if the exposure offered by ESPN yields results on the field. They haven't drastically reduced their average performance though.

C-USA takes the biggest gut punch by the numbers. We will need NMST to get on track quickly and SHSU and Jacksonville State to adjust to FBS faster than WKU did.

MWC has a weaker bottom than expected.

MAC is having a down year, or down couple of years.

Last thing of note. The AAC is going to be much closer to the rest of the G5 than they are to the Big XII. Big XII is still going to be a Power conference in my opinion.

Will be fun to revisit this at the end of the season and see how different expectations were vs reality.

(04-15-2022 12:32 AM)tigtoodawg Wrote:  

(04-14-2022 10:41 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(04-14-2022 02:26 PM)tigtoodawg Wrote:  Unfortunately, it not always about on the field/court metrics, but about perception in the media and media markets. Tech used to be known to "play anywhere anyone, anytime" or QB U or Kicker U. We've had the graces to have beaten Bama twice, MSU (Mississippi St and Michigan St), Illinois, Navy and many other P5's. BUT, only thing most people remember is the Cinderella story of App State beating Michigan. App State is still known for that, by the way I didn't hear about the Jax State FSU win this year because the narrative wasn't what the media wanted. It's tough, but stand tall, and trust and believe that this move is the right thing!

For fun, go to YouTube and watch La Tech versus Michigan State game. One of the best last minute comebacks I've ever seen.

And Welcome!

App State at the Big House is absolutely one of the most famous underdog wins across all sports, it's one of the few sporting events that didn't involve one of my teams and was not a National Championship/Super Bowl etc. that I can tell you *exactly* where I was(tailgating at Lockhart before MT @ FAU).

The circumstances of that game were pretty special, opening weekend at the Big House, one of the biggest upsets in the history of the sport won in one of the more dramatic ways a football game can end.

I don't know the circumstances of the game itself between La Tech and Alabama in 1999. I do know that was an eventual 10 win SEC champion you beat, but even just the difference in coverage in 1999 and 2007 anc opening weekend vs third weekend of the season, I wouldn't be surprised if more people saw the highlights of App State at the Big House within 24 hours of it happening than the total number of people that have ever seen the highlights of La Tech over Bama.

As for Jax State over FSU, that was not a good FSU team and the last five years in general, the program is at it's lowest point in more than 40 years. I'm curious what you believe the narrative should have been.

Well there wasn’t social media back then, yes I’m old, but times are different now. App State has lived and prospered from that. Just sayin. No harm no foul.

There wasn't really social media in 2007 either. Facebook and Twitter were still in their relative infancy. But I remember the highlights running over and over on Sportscenter like few games do. Boise's Fiesta Bowl win over Oklahoma(another game that wasn't one of my teams or. National Championship/Super Bowl etc that I can tell you exactly where I was) and Auburn's "kick six" come to mind as games that got the same kind of run.

(04-15-2022 11:54 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 12:32 AM)tigtoodawg Wrote:  

(04-14-2022 10:41 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(04-14-2022 02:26 PM)tigtoodawg Wrote:  Unfortunately, it not always about on the field/court metrics, but about perception in the media and media markets. Tech used to be known to "play anywhere anyone, anytime" or QB U or Kicker U. We've had the graces to have beaten Bama twice, MSU (Mississippi St and Michigan St), Illinois, Navy and many other P5's. BUT, only thing most people remember is the Cinderella story of App State beating Michigan. App State is still known for that, by the way I didn't hear about the Jax State FSU win this year because the narrative wasn't what the media wanted. It's tough, but stand tall, and trust and believe that this move is the right thing!

For fun, go to YouTube and watch La Tech versus Michigan State game. One of the best last minute comebacks I've ever seen.

And Welcome!

App State at the Big House is absolutely one of the most famous underdog wins across all sports, it's one of the few sporting events that didn't involve one of my teams and was not a National Championship/Super Bowl etc. that I can tell you *exactly* where I was(tailgating at Lockhart before MT @ FAU).

The circumstances of that game were pretty special, opening weekend at the Big House, one of the biggest upsets in the history of the sport won in one of the more dramatic ways a football game can end.

I don't know the circumstances of the game itself between La Tech and Alabama in 1999. I do know that was an eventual 10 win SEC champion you beat, but even just the difference in coverage in 1999 and 2007 anc opening weekend vs third weekend of the season, I wouldn't be surprised if more people saw the highlights of App State at the Big House within 24 hours of it happening than the total number of people that have ever seen the highlights of La Tech over Bama.

As for Jax State over FSU, that was not a good FSU team and the last five years in general, the program is at it's lowest point in more than 40 years. I'm curious what you believe the narrative should have been.

Well there wasn’t social media back then, yes I’m old, but times are different now. App State has lived and prospered from that. Just sayin. No harm no foul.

There wasn't really social media in 2007 either. Facebook and Twitter were still in their relative infancy. But I remember the highlights running over and over on Sportscenter like few games do. Boise's Fiesta Bowl win over Oklahoma(another game that wasn't one of my teams or. National Championship/Super Bowl etc that I can tell you exactly where I was) and Auburn's "kick six" come to mind as games that got the same kind of run.

There are some games that just become sports legends nationally. Those you mentioned fit the bill for sure.

WKU beating UK on a 2-point conversion was a great regional story for us years ago, but it wasn't more than a temporary blip on the National radar and so it is now forgotten by most anyone not associated with either program.

I think this year's St. Peter's run is a good example. I think beating UK in the first round was going to make them famous for a year or two, and then it would subside in the minds of most everyone that isn't a UK or St. Peter's fan. Advancing to the Elite 8 has made it a legendary run that sticks in the minds of casual sports fans for a long, long time.

(04-15-2022 12:38 PM)freshtop Wrote:  I think this year's St. Peter's run is a good example. I think beating UK in the first round was going to make them famous for a year or two, and then it would subside in the minds of most everyone that isn't a UK or St. Peter's fan. Advancing to the Elite 8 has made it a legendary run that sticks in the minds of casual sports fans for a long, long time.

Agree with you here. To really be remembered over time, you almost need an equally as good side story. This is St. Peter's problem.

They aren't the Loyola-Chicago Fighting Sister Jeans.

Hell, I barely remember #16 UMBC upsetting #1 UVA.

(04-15-2022 12:51 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 12:38 PM)freshtop Wrote:  I think this year's St. Peter's run is a good example. I think beating UK in the first round was going to make them famous for a year or two, and then it would subside in the minds of most everyone that isn't a UK or St. Peter's fan. Advancing to the Elite 8 has made it a legendary run that sticks in the minds of casual sports fans for a long, long time.

Agree with you here. To really be remembered over time, you almost need an equally as good side story. This is St. Peter's problem.

They aren't the Loyola-Chicago Fighting Sister Jeans.

Hell, I barely remember 316 UMBC upsetting #1 UVA.

Loyola had the Sister Jean story on top of actually making the Final 4. Making the F4 as a "mid-major" is something that gets remembered. I still remember George Mason and VCU for making it (VCU having some sustained success in hoops after). Heck, people still talk about Calapari's UMass squad from time to time and that was almost 30 years ago. Everyone likes an underdog story.

(04-15-2022 12:56 PM)freshtop Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 12:51 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 12:38 PM)freshtop Wrote:  I think this year's St. Peter's run is a good example. I think beating UK in the first round was going to make them famous for a year or two, and then it would subside in the minds of most everyone that isn't a UK or St. Peter's fan. Advancing to the Elite 8 has made it a legendary run that sticks in the minds of casual sports fans for a long, long time.

Agree with you here. To really be remembered over time, you almost need an equally as good side story. This is St. Peter's problem.

They aren't the Loyola-Chicago Fighting Sister Jeans.

Hell, I barely remember 316 UMBC upsetting #1 UVA.

Loyola had the Sister Jean story on top of actually making the Final 4. Making the F4 as a "mid-major" is something that gets remembered. I still remember George Mason and VCU for making it (VCU having some sustained success in hoops after). Heck, people still talk about Calapari's UMass squad from time to time and that was almost 30 years ago. Everyone likes an underdog story.

True. I remember the UMASS story. I really liked the run Valpo had in the mid-90's and the early Gonzaga runs of the same period. Those were fun to watch.

Y'all are forgetting the mother of all unexpected wins. The TWC (Utep now) win over Kentucky for the National Championship in basketball. Now, that was epic and is still talked about.

There have been some unexpected wins in football too. The win over Mississippi in the Sun Bowl and against TCU when they were in the SWC in the Sun Bowl too.

In basketball they are too numerous to count. For instance we sent Georgetown back to Washington with their tails between their legs one year...and so on.

G5 football will change from year to year or week to week as to who is the strongest. If anyone gets too strong a P4/5 school will scoop up the coach.

(04-15-2022 02:46 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Y'all are forgetting the mother of all unexpected wins. The TWC (Utep now) win over Kentucky for the National Championship in basketball. Now, that was epic and is still talked about.

There have been some unexpected wins in football too. The win over Mississippi in the Sun Bowl and against TCU when they were in the SWC in the Sun Bowl too.

In basketball they are too numerous to count. For instance we sent Georgetown back to Washington with their tails between their legs one year...and so on.

I think UTEP would get remembered more for the Texas Western win if they were still called Texas Western. Glory Road helped immortalize the win, but there are a lot of people that don't know that UTEP = Texas Western.

(04-15-2022 02:46 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Y'all are forgetting the mother of all unexpected wins. The TWC (Utep now) win over Kentucky for the National Championship in basketball. Now, that was epic and is still talked about.

There have been some unexpected wins in football too. The win over Mississippi in the Sun Bowl and against TCU when they were in the SWC in the Sun Bowl too.

In basketball they are too numerous to count. For instance we sent Georgetown back to Washington with their tails between their legs one year...and so on.

Not forgetting, it was simply over half a century ago. The median age of Americans today is 38.

(04-15-2022 03:23 PM)freshtop Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 02:46 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Y'all are forgetting the mother of all unexpected wins. The TWC (Utep now) win over Kentucky for the National Championship in basketball. Now, that was epic and is still talked about.

There have been some unexpected wins in football too. The win over Mississippi in the Sun Bowl and against TCU when they were in the SWC in the Sun Bowl too.

In basketball they are too numerous to count. For instance we sent Georgetown back to Washington with their tails between their legs one year...and so on.

I think UTEP would get remembered more for the Texas Western win if they were still called Texas Western. Glory Road helped immortalize the win, but there are a lot of people that don't know that UTEP = Texas Western.

UTEP's history never happens if not for the below foul call on a jump ball because if this call is not made Western wins and uk goes out the next game. Western and UTEP most likely plays instead of uk. Western probably has a NCAA Championship

Awful call at 8:49

(04-15-2022 04:09 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 03:23 PM)freshtop Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 02:46 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Y'all are forgetting the mother of all unexpected wins. The TWC (Utep now) win over Kentucky for the National Championship in basketball. Now, that was epic and is still talked about.

There have been some unexpected wins in football too. The win over Mississippi in the Sun Bowl and against TCU when they were in the SWC in the Sun Bowl too.

In basketball they are too numerous to count. For instance we sent Georgetown back to Washington with their tails between their legs one year...and so on.

I think UTEP would get remembered more for the Texas Western win if they were still called Texas Western. Glory Road helped immortalize the win, but there are a lot of people that don't know that UTEP = Texas Western.

UTEP's history never happens if not for the below foul call on a jump ball because if this call is not made Western wins and uk goes out the next game. Western and UTEP most likely plays instead of uk. Western probably has a NCAA Championship

Awful call at 8:49

Or maybe Western loses to Kentucky, Duke, or Texas Western... whatever makes you feel better.

(04-15-2022 03:23 PM)freshtop Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 02:46 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Y'all are forgetting the mother of all unexpected wins. The TWC (Utep now) win over Kentucky for the National Championship in basketball. Now, that was epic and is still talked about.

There have been some unexpected wins in football too. The win over Mississippi in the Sun Bowl and against TCU when they were in the SWC in the Sun Bowl too.

In basketball they are too numerous to count. For instance we sent Georgetown back to Washington with their tails between their legs one year...and so on.

I think UTEP would get remembered more for the Texas Western win if they were still called Texas Western. Glory Road helped immortalize the win, but there are a lot of people that don't know that UTEP = Texas Western.

I remember thinking at the time that the name change came at the worst time. Here you win the big one and immediately change your name so that no one knows who you are. I like the Texas Western name better anyway.

(04-15-2022 04:16 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 04:09 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 03:23 PM)freshtop Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 02:46 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Y'all are forgetting the mother of all unexpected wins. The TWC (Utep now) win over Kentucky for the National Championship in basketball. Now, that was epic and is still talked about.

There have been some unexpected wins in football too. The win over Mississippi in the Sun Bowl and against TCU when they were in the SWC in the Sun Bowl too.

In basketball they are too numerous to count. For instance we sent Georgetown back to Washington with their tails between their legs one year...and so on.

I think UTEP would get remembered more for the Texas Western win if they were still called Texas Western. Glory Road helped immortalize the win, but there are a lot of people that don't know that UTEP = Texas Western.

UTEP's history never happens if not for the below foul call on a jump ball because if this call is not made Western wins and uk goes out the next game. Western and UTEP most likely plays instead of uk. Western probably has a NCAA Championship

Awful call at 8:49

Or maybe Western loses to Kentucky, Duke, or Texas Western... whatever makes you feel better.

Either way UTEP's history changes and its just another footnote in NCAA basketball. Winning a championship is not what gets that championship remembered or talked about for the last 50+ years. That game is remembered as 5 black players beating a all white uk team. No way was uk beating that Western team because just like UTEP did....

Western would have ran them for 40 minutes

(04-15-2022 04:20 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 04:16 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 04:09 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 03:23 PM)freshtop Wrote:  

(04-15-2022 02:46 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Y'all are forgetting the mother of all unexpected wins. The TWC (Utep now) win over Kentucky for the National Championship in basketball. Now, that was epic and is still talked about.

There have been some unexpected wins in football too. The win over Mississippi in the Sun Bowl and against TCU when they were in the SWC in the Sun Bowl too.

In basketball they are too numerous to count. For instance we sent Georgetown back to Washington with their tails between their legs one year...and so on.

I think UTEP would get remembered more for the Texas Western win if they were still called Texas Western. Glory Road helped immortalize the win, but there are a lot of people that don't know that UTEP = Texas Western.

UTEP's history never happens if not for the below foul call on a jump ball because if this call is not made Western wins and uk goes out the next game. Western and UTEP most likely plays instead of uk. Western probably has a NCAA Championship

Awful call at 8:49

Or maybe Western loses to Kentucky, Duke, or Texas Western... whatever makes you feel better.

Either way UTEP's history changes and its just another footnote in NCAA basketball. Winning a championship is not what gets that championship remembered or talked about for the last 50+ years. That game is remembered as 5 black players beating a all white uk team. No way was uk beating that Western team because just like UTEP did....

Western would have ran them for 40 minutes

Or maybe UK does beat you and nothing changes. This is pointless.

I for one am absolutely here for the adjuctication of a single foul from a sweet 16 game played nearly sixty years ago...

https://youtu.be/mZKnE5JYjR8?t=8

If Texas Western had one white starter the championship is probably forgotten completely.