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#14 Locked In?
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #21
RE: #14 Locked In?
(04-19-2022 10:04 AM)dan10 Wrote:  
(04-18-2022 08:56 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  You have been the primary proponent of the Divisional set-up and going by your thoughts, the south would look as follows:
Howard, W&M, Hampton, NC Central, UNCW, Elon, NC A&T and Charleston.

I honestly can’t see how W&M would look at that list of primary athletic partners and think that makes any sense or holds any interest to the fan base. There’s not a single rival on the list. Maybe I’m wrong, but it would be a structure that I think should push W&M to look for an exit toward our traditional rivals. That might be the Patriot if Richmond and Villanova also shifted for football.
W&M needs to decide what they want. To this point their peers are a mixed bag of academic peers and athletic peers. Academically W&M is a Patriot league school. But W&M and their boosters want fully funded football so your peers in football have been 1-AA/FCS local schools that have little to do with academic prestige. Problem is your football peers have moved on and grown, W&M has shown 0 desire to do so. So I would venture to guess W&M is fine as long as Richmond and Villanova are around. Otherwise Howard and Hampton or god forbid, Norfolk State are your only ones left.

So what does W&M want? Football peers or academic peers? Other? Staying at the FCS level, from an outsider these moves would appear to be positive for W&M with more local teams at your football level, which seems to be the driving force.

I think they have and it’s the CAA. It’s all sports including very good football, includes some of our key rivals and has an academic tilt. My thoughts have nothing to do with W&Ms official position.

Will see how this finishes, the final 16 I guess. I think the fan base is largely split. Some vocally want the So Con. Some would take the Patriot - as is. But still, I think the CAA looks best option given the key rivals UR, Villanova and Delaware stick. I’m not excited about Howard but maybe the final two will finish the picture. Sounds like UAlbany and one other to come.
04-20-2022 11:51 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #22
RE: #14 Locked In?
(04-18-2022 08:56 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  
(04-18-2022 08:35 AM)82hawk Wrote:  
(04-18-2022 07:22 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  16 is too big. It would be ironic that this over-expansion in my view for “insurance” leads Delaware and W&M to bolt to the Patriot League in all sports and take Richmond and Villanova along with them as football affiliates.

Sixteen was the number needed for each division to create schedules independently within each division, therefore reducing travel costs and assuring one home and one away game with each school. It isn't just an arbitrary number for fun. Like I said, we'll see, but that was the goal. And going from 14 to 16 would be a ridiculous reason for Delaware or anybody to leave. But if W&M and Delaware left, sobeit.

You have been the primary proponent of the Divisional set-up and going by your thoughts, the south would look as follows:
Howard, W&M, Hampton, NC Central, UNCW, Elon, NC A&T and Charleston.

I honestly can’t see how W&M would look at that list of primary athletic partners and think that makes any sense or holds any interest to the fan base. There’s not a single rival on the list. Maybe I’m wrong, but it would be a structure that I think should push W&M to look for an exit toward our traditional rivals. That might be the Patriot if Richmond and Villanova also shifted for football.

Then you could replace us with Campbell in your dream world.

Why would Richmond or Villanova join the Patriot? Villanova is in the premier FCS conference with their biggest football rival Delaware. Richmond has a bunch of regional games in the premier FCS conference.

No one is saying it's the heyday of the CAA, but when you look at the impact the A10 and FBS football have had on the CAA its not a bad setup. Stable with two tight geographic footprints
04-20-2022 03:56 PM
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ibby10 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: #14 Locked In?
Again I really hope 16 is not the goal. But what do I know. If Albany is being considered, why didn’t CAA just add Albany instead of Monmouth?
04-21-2022 11:12 AM
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JonP Offline
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Post: #24
RE: #14 Locked In?
If 16 is the goal for all sports, then I will be sad.

If 16 is the goal in football, I would hope CAA would go after one affiliate. Bryant just joined America East. Or go check in with Robert Morris or Duquesne.
04-21-2022 12:49 PM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: #14 Locked In?
(04-21-2022 11:12 AM)ibby10 Wrote:  Again I really hope 16 is not the goal. But what do I know. If Albany is being considered, why didn’t CAA just add Albany instead of Monmouth?

Agreed on Albany. If they were ever an end goal they should have been one of the first and easiest to pull as an associate member anyhow, just to SBU. I hope they are not in the plans, personally.
04-21-2022 02:46 PM
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jcohen42 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: #14 Locked In?
Agree... I think we are past the need for needing Albany in the CAA, unless the CAA really gets raided or the "CAA split" pipe dream somehow comes to pass. They don't add enough to be a #15.
04-26-2022 02:44 PM
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ibby10 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: #14 Locked In?
Howard may not be Locked in as #14?
05-04-2022 12:40 PM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: #14 Locked In?
Of course they are committed, until its finalized. They are not dumb and will say all the right things for as long as they can. I would take it with a grain of salt.
05-04-2022 02:57 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #29
RE: #14 Locked In?
The current President is retiring, so his comment of commitment might not mean as much as it once did
05-04-2022 03:10 PM
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ibby10 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: #14 Locked In?
Any update on the 14th? June is near. Isn’t it too late for a new addition? Likely 13 teams for 2022-23.

On that note let’s have new forums for new comers? Especially Monmouth and Hampton. A&T and us already have vibrant message board community outside csnbbs. But I couldn’t find any active Monmouth and Hampton fan forums. May be their fans will find home here.
05-22-2022 07:21 AM
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dan10 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: #14 Locked In?
Agreed on getting a board for each of the new members. They were quite swift in moving JMU over to the Sunbelt, shocked nothing has happened here. I would reach out to georgia_tech_swagger about getting your boards added here
05-23-2022 06:43 AM
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sctvman Offline
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Post: #32
RE: #14 Locked In?
Monmouth released their men's soccer schedule earlier this month. 9 conference games. And guess who else they are playing. Howard.

https://monmouthhawks.com/news/2022/5/11...edule.aspx
05-24-2022 08:08 AM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #33
RE: #14 Locked In?
(05-24-2022 08:08 AM)sctvman Wrote:  Monmouth released their men's soccer schedule earlier this month. 9 conference games. And guess who else they are playing. Howard.

https://monmouthhawks.com/news/2022/5/11...edule.aspx

I’m not sure that means anything. Howard plays a lot of CAA teams OOC in many sports.
05-24-2022 10:09 AM
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JonP Offline
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Post: #34
RE: #14 Locked In?
Matt Brown suggests that we might get some Howard-to-the-CAA clarity in the off-season.

Quote:Howard wanted to wait until after graduation and both sides wanted to wait until the conclusion of all CAA teams in postseason play.
05-24-2022 12:44 PM
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GreatDane96 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: #14 Locked In?
I'd listen to Matt on this one. I have heard from MULTIPLE sources that the announcement should be around mid-June.
05-24-2022 01:25 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #36
RE: #14 Locked In?
If Howard leaves the MEAC, that conference shell is going to be in trouble

It would be very interesting if the CAA could grab it after everyone abandons ship.

This would allow for a clean and amicable north-south split where both sides can grow to 10 and no one loses auto bids.
05-24-2022 01:50 PM
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DrachenFire Offline
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Post: #37
RE: #14 Locked In?
Well I guess now #14 is locked in. Don't really see what the rush was to get this done in early August.
08-03-2022 09:22 AM
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82hawk Offline
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Post: #38
RE: #14 Locked In?
(08-03-2022 09:22 AM)DrachenFire Wrote:  Well I guess now #14 is locked in. Don't really see what the rush was to get this done in early August.

I still think the goal is to get to 16 so locking in Campbell for 2023 solidifies a southern and northern division for geography and travel, making it easier to bring on the last two schools.

Based on some of the statements coming from the schools they are always mentioning "markets". Campbell and the Raleigh area and NC A&T and the Greensboro market. I wouldn't be surprised to see Winthrop come on from the Charlotte area and another school from the North with football in a large metropolitan area.
08-04-2022 05:46 AM
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GreatDane96 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: #14 Locked In?
(08-04-2022 05:46 AM)82hawk Wrote:  
(08-03-2022 09:22 AM)DrachenFire Wrote:  Well I guess now #14 is locked in. Don't really see what the rush was to get this done in early August.

I still think the goal is to get to 16 so locking in Campbell for 2023 solidifies a southern and northern division for geography and travel, making it easier to bring on the last two schools.

Based on some of the statements coming from the schools they are always mentioning "markets". Campbell and the Raleigh area and NC A&T and the Greensboro market. I wouldn't be surprised to see Winthrop come on from the Charlotte area and another school from the North with football in a large metropolitan area.

What school from the North has football and (and is not already spoken for by the CAA) has a large metro area? Short answer: NO SCHOOL fits that bill and is a viable option. You have the IVY Schools (DOA concept), MEAC schools (DOA unless it is Howard and that's not exactly north but I will grant you that one), the Patriot (no chance those schools are leaving one another), the Pioneer and NEC leagues (similar but slightly different, however not a single school fits the bill athletically).

If, and that's a big one, the CAA decides to go the route of 16, the candidates are likely the following:

North: Albany, Fairfield, and Quinnipiac.
South: UMBC, High Point, Winthrop, Norfolk St, Howard

Of course, the CAA can take another run at Furman, Wofford, or Greensboro however, I just don't see any making a move.

From everything I have heard, Howard is still a goal with the hopes that either everyone in the MEAC finds a home next year or the league just implodes. If you look at the MEAC, a large portion of the members have their sports in other leagues. There is literally no rush for the CAA to go to 16 if they believe Howard will eventually come. In the Howard scenario, then you would bring in one more team that doesn't have football.

If the CAA moves on from Howard, which is equally as likely, and wants to go to 16 then it has a host of options. First, for football, I think it was Sitting Bull who mentioned it...you really don't have to go to 16. However, if that was desired, my guess is a school like Bryant COULD get a surprise affiliate membership. Otherwise, the CAA's options in the South are as equally limited as they are in the North and you are probably looking at Norfolk State or North Carolina Central.

If they go the affiliate route or leave football at 15, things get really interesting. You could raid the AE and take Albany for the North and UMBC for the Northern most Southern team (effectively taking the Howard slot). That said, UMBC doesn't really spend on athletics and I don't see a massive want to spend. They AE is tough for them geography-wise but they fit in all other aspects. My guess is the slot comes down to Albany or Fairfield, which is another reason why Albany moved up the timeline for the Arena renovations that started 3 days ago (we know Fairfield is building their new arena). Albany is about to spend close to 100 million on athletic facility upgrades in the next 4-6 years and while Fairfield is a CAA affiliate lax member, Albany's football membership holds more sway (from what I am being told) and Albany brings in a stronger lax program to add to Fairfield's lax program. Quite frankly, bringing in an Albany lax team pushes CAA lax up a level considering what they just lost to the A-10. My understanding is that the CAA wants to come out of the gate on track and field (pun intended), coupling the historically strong A&T, NU, and W&M programs with the up and coming Stony Brook program and the Albany program that basically went head to head with NU every year until they left, then took over dominance in the AE. Albany has its warts, zero doubt, including geography...but my understanding is they are the front runner for the Northern slot. Albany is also "this close" to having the Nano college returned to it by the State (it was given to SUNY Poly in a political move). This would push Albany's R&D to the most in the CAA, even beyond Stony Brook's impressive haul and would vault Albany back up the academic ladder to where it once was (in the low 100's). The negotiations for that are ongoing, with the goal for Albany to take over Albany Law and Med as well, for an end goal of an AAU invite. I want to be clear that I am not pining for Albany to join the CAA, this is not a PR move...I still question what the CAA is trying to do...but I am just pointing out particulars of Albany for others who may not know because it is pertinent to why they are in the discussion.

Southern-wise, I have been told it is a split decision between Winthrop and High Point. Interestingly, Winthrop just authorized a "top-down" review of its athletic department.

Of course, the CAA could pull a super whammy and go for two Southern based schools. That would require both W&M and Hampton to go to the North, which I don't think the Northern flank would want from a travel perspective. Alternatively, the CAA can pull two Northern based schools (Fairfield and Albany, for example) and push Towson and Delaware South. This likely would not appease Delaware or Towson but much like a move in the South, it would make travel easier for the other divisional members. This move is super unlikely.

So you will see the CAA, choose from the following, in order, IMHO:

1. Stand pat at 14 for at least 2-3 years or until a major DI shakeup occurs, whichever is sooner;
2. Howard says yes, and then add a North school (Albany or Fairfield);
3. Are tired of Howard, adds a Southern football school (Central or Norfolk St) and a North school (Albany or Fairfield).
4. Are tired of Howard, wants football and all-sports to go to 16, adds a football affiliate and, for all sports, adds a team from the North and from the South that are not football based or already have football in the league (Albany).
5. Stand pat at 14 (as above) and add a football affiliate, if they really want to two divisions at 16.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2022 09:00 AM by GreatDane96.)
08-04-2022 08:53 AM
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jcohen42 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: #14 Locked In?
I think you present a pretty good argument for Albany; however, I don't view Howard or UMBC as South schools. Both of them are closer to Towson than they would be to any school in the southern division. Howard perhaps would be fine with being a Southern school so that they stay with the HBCU's, but I can't imagine UMBC jumping at the chance to play southern schools. On the other hand, I definitely think the northern division would be attractive to them.

My hope is that the conference stays at 14 for a few years, and if an opportunity comes up, take advantage of it. I don't think football is in any rush to add a 16th member, pod scheduling with 5 pods of 3 works really well under the current configuration. That opens the door for one of Albany, Fairfield, Quinnipiac, or UMBC to be the eighth member in the North, where Albany and Fairfield appear to be the clear frontrunners.
08-04-2022 09:09 AM
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