(09-05-2022 11:46 PM)AppState92 Wrote:  If the AAC losses the teams some of y'all are talking about...ECU and UAB should beg the SUNBELT to take them. ECU fans know football and they are not going to want to play Charlotte and MTSU. I think their fans will start losing interest even if they are winning. That will be a horrible AAC east football schedule.

I mean yeah. Other than watching the MWC, because Fresno is in it, SBC is easily the G5 conference I watch 2nd most. App vs UNC was the best game Sat.

(09-04-2022 10:48 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  I wouldn't expect them to "stand pat" because there are too many reasons for the ACC to keep up with the Jones's by adding 1 or 2 teams to stay even with the SEC and Big Ten.

A strong case could be made for the ACC to add two schools, giving them 16 P5 teams plus Notre Dame. Their best option would be to poach two of these three P5 schools from the Big XII: Cincy/UCF/WVU.

Plan B would be to take two of the best available G5 schools in the eastern U.S. This would be an appealing option for the ACC, even though the FB teams are less competitive, since the conference could add three of the largest market areas in the eastern U.S., such as Philadelphia, Tampa/St. Pete, and metropolitan NYC.

Please explain how you're going to get the 3/4ths majority vote for any of the programs mentioned above. And we'll just take it for granted that they want to sign the ACC's infamous GoR. There's a reason it hasn't happened. Until there are spots to backfill, the ACC is stuck. It's a big conundrum for the lower valued programs in the conference.

The Big Ten adds Washington and Oregon and stops there.

Excluded from the Big Ten contract, ESPN goes biblical, and brokers the following moves.

Florida State and Kansas to the SEC, matching the B1G at 18 teams.

WVU, Cinci and UCF to the ACC taking them to 16 and the Big 12 to 8 southwestern teams.

The Big 12 takes the remaining 8 PAC teams as a western division, taking them to 16.

Notre Dame stays independent. The CFP is the P4 champs and 8 at large.

ESPN owns all power conference schools except the Big Ten and Notre Dame.

(09-05-2022 10:27 PM)hburg Wrote:  The AAC lost a lot of credibility when they added the CUSA 6. They have a ton to prove. Memphis and SMU are looking for a way out for sure.

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I agree with this. The 6 additions were a bad move other than UAB.

After the AAC lost Houston, Cincy, UCF....with 8 schools left.....the AAC should have merged with the MWC instead of weakening the AAC. Thompson and Aresco needed to eat some pride and come together.

That would have been a 20 team best of the rest conference with a very nice East and West split.

(09-06-2022 11:04 AM)Boots Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 10:27 PM)hburg Wrote:  The AAC lost a lot of credibility when they added the CUSA 6. They have a ton to prove. Memphis and SMU are looking for a way out for sure.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

I agree with this. The 6 additions were a bad move other than UAB.

After the AAC lost Houston, Cincy, UCF....with 8 schools left.....the AAC should have merged with the MWC instead of weakening the AAC. Thompson and Aresco needed to eat some pride and come together.

That would have been a 20 team best of the rest conference with a very nice East and West split.

Rice is a quality school. I don't have a problem with them coming in with UAB. UTSA may be a strong football edition. Time will tell, but what little I've seen looks pretty good. The rest don't look like the best decisions to me.

All the AAC additions were solid adds. They have consolidated Texas and they have decent pieces out east. The only questionable one was Charlotte, but you never know. If they didn't take Charlotte, they would have added ODU or someone currently in the Belt. But Charlotte fits the Metro theme. I think all the Texas adds were must gets.

No offense to the schools that were added....they all have certain merits....

But the majority of all AAC fans think it was a disaster. If you polled AAC fans I bet 80% or higher were disappointed with the additions. I know for a fact Memphis administration was really disappointed with how it ended up post additions.

UAB is the only one I think would have had support. They just took way too many.

Now adding CSU and Air Force would have had near 100% approval. They should have added UAB only and waited to see how things shake out and kept working on either merger with or adding from MWC.

But in the end ESPN told them who to take based off needing more content.

(09-06-2022 12:10 PM)Boots Wrote:  No offense to the schools that were added....they all have certain merits....

But the majority of all AAC fans think it was a disaster. If you polled AAC fans I bet 80% or higher were disappointed with the additions. I know for a fact Memphis administration was really disappointed with how it ended up post additions.

UAB is the only one I think would have had support. They just took way too many.

Now adding CSU and Air Force would have had near 100% approval. They should have added UAB only and waited to see how things shake out and kept working on either merger with or adding from MWC.

But in the end ESPN told them who to take based off needing more content.

Of course the AAC adds weren't particularly good. But who could the AAC have added that would have been better?

(09-06-2022 07:52 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  

(09-04-2022 10:48 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  I wouldn't expect them to "stand pat" because there are too many reasons for the ACC to keep up with the Jones's by adding 1 or 2 teams to stay even with the SEC and Big Ten.

A strong case could be made for the ACC to add two schools, giving them 16 P5 teams plus Notre Dame. Their best option would be to poach two of these three P5 schools from the Big XII: Cincy/UCF/WVU.

Plan B would be to take two of the best available G5 schools in the eastern U.S. This would be an appealing option for the ACC, even though the FB teams are less competitive, since the conference could add three of the largest market areas in the eastern U.S., such as Philadelphia, Tampa/St. Pete, and metropolitan NYC.

Please explain how you're going to get the 3/4ths majority vote for any of the programs mentioned above. And we'll just take it for granted that they want to sign the ACC's infamous GoR. There's a reason it hasn't happened. Until there are spots to backfill, the ACC is stuck. It's a big conundrum for the lower valued programs in the conference.

Yeah, I'm inclined that the ACC GOR will deter Big 12 schools from joining the ACC even if the ACC wanted them. Big 12 schools have a hope (whether delusional or not) that they might get added to the SEC or Big 10 sooner than 2036.

(09-06-2022 12:13 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(09-06-2022 12:10 PM)Boots Wrote:  No offense to the schools that were added....they all have certain merits....

But the majority of all AAC fans think it was a disaster. If you polled AAC fans I bet 80% or higher were disappointed with the additions. I know for a fact Memphis administration was really disappointed with how it ended up post additions.

UAB is the only one I think would have had support. They just took way too many.

Now adding CSU and Air Force would have had near 100% approval. They should have added UAB only and waited to see how things shake out and kept working on either merger with or adding from MWC.

But in the end ESPN told them who to take based off needing more content.

Of course the AAC adds weren't particularly good. But who could the AAC have added that would have been better?

And that's the question (and a strong one) that few posters seem either willing to or able to address. There simply were no additions that were going to make the AAC "better" than it has been/was with UConn, UCF, Houston and Cincinnati as members.

So many posters — at least when comparing the Sun Belt and the future AAC — focus strongly (if not exclusively) on football. The Belt had that "football focus" luxury overall when it expanded. The AAC (and the MWC, had it been facing the need for replacements) did not. The AAC understandably went for a blend of additions that would make the league as "good as possible" in football, baseball, men's hoops, academics and urban locales. Thus, the six that were chosen.

If the AAC had taken "football schools" like Marshall, USM, Louisiana and/or AppSstate ... yes, that would have been good for AAC football. But for what else (notwithstanding the nationally respected Marshall men's soccer program)?

The future AAC will have 15 members, including a military academy (Navy), three top-notch private schools (Tulsa, Rice and SMU) and some large publics located in big cities. Detractors rip on Charlotte. But Charlotte has a "shared league history" with Memphis, SMU, USF and Temple (A-10). And Charlotte gives the AAC two schools in North Carolina (one of the best states for football and basketball prep talent).

Detractors pooh-pooh Rice. But Rice has been outstanding at times in baseball, has strong potential to be very solid in hoops, and keeps the AAC in Houston. I fully favored the addition of Rice.

I have been very respectful of the Sun Belt and feel it can be the best G5 football league any given year. The soccer will be elite. And baseball should be underratedly strong. There will be some "regional rivalries" that will make sense.

But the American is a different animal. It was "born" to some extent from the model the original Big East and the original Conference USA deployed. Big schools in big cities with a balanced emphasis on football and basketball — with some cool cities and quality academics to boot. The AAC needed to stick to that model. Trying to be like the Sun Belt by adding schools in small college towns and that offer modest (at best) basketball and academics ... would make minimal sense.

So, you might ask, is this Memphis fan pleased with the six C-USA additions to the AAC. No. But was there a "better" option? Not in my opinion (cue Quo to take Uncle Dazzy to task).

(09-06-2022 12:52 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-06-2022 12:13 PM)Poster Wrote:  

(09-06-2022 12:10 PM)Boots Wrote:  No offense to the schools that were added....they all have certain merits....

But the majority of all AAC fans think it was a disaster. If you polled AAC fans I bet 80% or higher were disappointed with the additions. I know for a fact Memphis administration was really disappointed with how it ended up post additions.

UAB is the only one I think would have had support. They just took way too many.

Now adding CSU and Air Force would have had near 100% approval. They should have added UAB only and waited to see how things shake out and kept working on either merger with or adding from MWC.

But in the end ESPN told them who to take based off needing more content.

Of course the AAC adds weren't particularly good. But who could the AAC have added that would have been better?

And that's the question (and a strong one) that few posters seem either willing to or able to address. There simply were no additions that were going to make the AAC "better" than it has been/was with UConn, UCF, Houston and Cincinnati as members.

So many posters — at least when comparing the Sun Belt and the future AAC — focus strongly (if not exclusively) on football. The Belt had that "football focus" luxury overall when it expanded. The AAC (and the MWC, had it been facing the need for replacements) did not. The AAC understandably went for a blend of additions that would make the league as "good as possible" in football, baseball, men's hoops, academics and urban locales. Thus, the six that were chosen.

If the AAC had taken "football schools" like Marshall, USM, Louisiana and/or AppSstate ... yes, that would have been good for AAC football. But for what else (notwithstanding the nationally respected Marshall men's soccer program)?

The future AAC will have 15 members, including a military academy (Navy), three top-notch private schools (Tulsa, Rice and SMU) and some large publics located in big cities. Detractors rip on Charlotte. But Charlotte has a "shared league history" with Memphis, SMU, USF and Temple (A-10). And Charlotte gives the AAC two schools in North Carolina (one of the best states for football and basketball prep talent).

Detractors pooh-pooh Rice. But Rice has been outstanding at times in baseball, has strong potential to be very solid in hoops, and keeps the AAC in Houston. I fully favored the addition of Rice.

I have been very respectful of the Sun Belt and feel it can be the best G5 football league any given year. The soccer will be elite. And baseball should be underratedly strong. There will be some "regional rivalries" that will make sense.

But the American is a different animal. It was "born" to some extent from the model the original Big East and the original Conference USA deployed. Big schools in big cities with a balanced emphasis on football and basketball — with some cool cities and quality academics to boot. The AAC needed to stick to that model. Trying to be like the Sun Belt by adding schools in small college towns and that offer modest (at best) basketball and academics ... would make minimal sense.

So, you might ask, is this Memphis fan pleased with the six C-USA additions to the AAC. No. But was there a "better" option? Not in my opinion (cue Quo to take Uncle Dazzy to task).

The AAC had to add something....yes. But why adding 6 I don't know. That seemed aggressive when the candidate pool was limited.

It's done. I do think it could potentially drive Memphis, SMU, etc. to the MWC if ever they hit a wall in their P5 hopes.

Hindsight is what it is, I guess. I still don't understand why the AAC had to replace 3 with 6. Seems tremendously dilutive.

AAC should have added UAB and Rice and then held. I think Florida Atlantic and UTSA would have become apparent targets to get to 12, but let it play out. No idea why the AAC double-dipped in North Carolina with Charlotte or in Dallas area with North Texas.

For the OP - with the CFP expansion, I don't see any urgency for the Big Ten or SEC to over expand right now. Likewise, the Big 12 will not make any moves unless a PAC 12 school or two want in - which is doubtful. They will all focus on adding and integrating the new members and then see how things play out with the new CFP scenarios.

I think the PAC will choose to remain at 10 and likewise see how things play out with the new CFP.

More of a hope than a prediction:

B1G & SEC stand as is @ 16 waiting for ACC top brands to come available.
PAC goes to 12, with SDSU & UNLV. But not enough depth out west to get to 14 or 16.
ACC & B12 decide they want to act like a big boys too & go to 16.
- ACC take Memphis & if they act fast Cincy before they join B12 & have that huge exit fee. If not Cincy then UCONN as all sports member. 2 new markets for ACCN is a plus, but exit fees prevent WV or any existing B12 from looking East.
- B12 takes Boise St, CSU, USF, & SMU. If replacing Cincy too then maybe they look at ECU or Fresno. If the next round sees the SEC & B1G go to 20, they can try again then to add the 4 corner schools then to match them at 20.
After having lost a combined 8 members AAC & MWC merge withEast/West divisions driving scheduling, but pooling their remaining inventory across all 4 time zones to salvage a still best of the G5 TV contract in terms of $ & exposure.
SBC & MAC know their roles & stay steady as ever & like their odds of getting the 6th conference champ CFP spot.
CUSA doesn’t need to do anything, but probably promotes someone from FCS.

(09-06-2022 05:53 PM)hk25 Wrote:  More of a hope than a prediction:

CUSA doesn’t need to do anything

I am very much not hoping for just about anything else you wrote, but this alone is worth some rep from me.

(09-05-2022 02:48 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 02:25 PM)goofus Wrote:  I could see the PAC adding SDSU and stopping at 11. With no clear-cut candidate for #12, there is no need to go any further. CCG don't require 12 teams anymore.

The only problem with 11 teams is that not everyone can play 9 conference football games. Maybe they could decide all 11 teams should play a 10-game round-robin football schedule to increase TV inventory.

That can work too.

Several schools get put on notice to improve their short comings

I think SDSU is a no brainer

Add SDSU, Hawai’i for Football-Only, and go grab Gonzaga. The 4 or 5 teams that will have to play at Hawai’i in a given season will get 13th game that can be used to set up good matchups with SEC, ACC, and Big XII schools for TV. San Diego State is opening a new stadium, will placate Colorado and the Arizona schools by re-opening SoCal recruiting, and they are good in basketball. Gonzaga seems like a no-brainer to complement Hawai’i.

(09-06-2022 08:44 AM)ken d Wrote:  The Big Ten adds Washington and Oregon and stops there.

Excluded from the Big Ten contract, ESPN goes biblical, and brokers the following moves.

Florida State and Kansas to the SEC, matching the B1G at 18 teams.

WVU, Cinci and UCF to the ACC taking them to 16 and the Big 12 to 8 southwestern teams.

The Big 12 takes the remaining 8 PAC teams as a western division, taking them to 16.

Notre Dame stays independent. The CFP is the P4 champs and 8 at large.

ESPN owns all power conference schools except the Big Ten and Notre Dame.

No surprise, I think the 2 are Stanford and some other school.

And I'd be interested in how fsu was achieved.

but yes, seems quite possible.

(09-07-2022 04:38 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-06-2022 08:44 AM)ken d Wrote:  The Big Ten adds Washington and Oregon and stops there.

Excluded from the Big Ten contract, ESPN goes biblical, and brokers the following moves.

Florida State and Kansas to the SEC, matching the B1G at 18 teams.

WVU, Cinci and UCF to the ACC taking them to 16 and the Big 12 to 8 southwestern teams.

The Big 12 takes the remaining 8 PAC teams as a western division, taking them to 16.

Notre Dame stays independent. The CFP is the P4 champs and 8 at large.

ESPN owns all power conference schools except the Big Ten and Notre Dame.

No surprise, I think the 2 are Stanford and some other school.

And I'd be interested in how fsu was achieved.

but yes, seems quite possible.

By giving the rest of the ACC a significant pay raise (maybe $5MM per team) while not poaching anyone else from them.

(09-07-2022 11:57 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-07-2022 04:38 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(09-06-2022 08:44 AM)ken d Wrote:  The Big Ten adds Washington and Oregon and stops there.

Excluded from the Big Ten contract, ESPN goes biblical, and brokers the following moves.

Florida State and Kansas to the SEC, matching the B1G at 18 teams.

WVU, Cinci and UCF to the ACC taking them to 16 and the Big 12 to 8 southwestern teams.

The Big 12 takes the remaining 8 PAC teams as a western division, taking them to 16.

Notre Dame stays independent. The CFP is the P4 champs and 8 at large.

ESPN owns all power conference schools except the Big Ten and Notre Dame.

No surprise, I think the 2 are Stanford and some other school.

And I'd be interested in how fsu was achieved.

but yes, seems quite possible.

By giving the rest of the ACC a significant pay raise (maybe $5MM per team) while not poaching anyone else from them.

ESPN has a vested interest in making sure ACC teams (including FSU) earn as little as possible. The ACC has the third best tv ratings (even better than the Big 12 with UT and OU and the PAC with USC), and they’ll probably be getting paid similar to the AAC and MWC by the end of the deal. Why would ESPN want to give up that great deal they have?

Personally I think it would be fine if the PAC added any combo of the following:

SDSU
SMU
Rice
Hawaii
UNLV
Nevada
Colorado St
Boise St
New Mexico

I think all of the above in different ways do add some value to the PAC. I think they should also take 4 to lock down more inventory and pay the new schools half shares.

I don’t think the PAC will give the slightest consideration to expansion until June 30th, 2023. That’s the last possible day to exit the PAC in time for 2025-26. Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal will be trying to get into the Big 10 until that day.


If June 30, 2023 passes and there are no more teams lost to the Big 10, they might give some nominal consideration to expansion. And find that none of the teams adds value to the conference.