(10-05-2022 11:46 AM)Schema Wrote:  

(10-05-2022 11:38 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Almost half of West Va's population already appears to be in an ACC related DMA, Pittsburgh, DC, Charleston, and Beckley/Bluefield. Louisville, Pitt, VT, and UVa already penetrate more than half of West Va.

I could be wrong, but I think the ACCN charges full rate for the entire state in which the member university resides, and not by DMA.

Correct.

I think you have to be decisive and either (a) lock down the Eastern Time Zone, or (b) go West with the best available teams. Mixing strategies won't work, IMO.

(a) West Virginia, Cincinnati, USF, UCF; not enough? add Temple, UConn, Memphis*, and Houston*

* not in the ETZ

OR

(b) Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Texas Tech, TCU/Baylor, Oklahoma State, Kansas

No time for "paralysis by analysis" - ACC needs to be swift and decisive, like the Big Ten.

(10-05-2022 12:08 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(10-05-2022 11:46 AM)Schema Wrote:  

(10-05-2022 11:38 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Almost half of West Va's population already appears to be in an ACC related DMA, Pittsburgh, DC, Charleston, and Beckley/Bluefield. Louisville, Pitt, VT, and UVa already penetrate more than half of West Va.

I could be wrong, but I think the ACCN charges full rate for the entire state in which the member university resides, and not by DMA.

Correct.

I have never seen that in print but I guess if it is state-based and not DMA based then the ACC ought to ADD Cal, Stanford, Arizona State, Colorado, Texas Tech, (Make a 5 School Division) and add Cincy. That would add 93 million people to the current 108 million.

Pacific - Stanford, Cal, ASU, Colorado, TT
North - Cincy, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College
Atlantic - VT, UVa, UNC, NC State, WF
South - Duke, GT, Clemson, FSU, UM

The SEC could then pick up UA and Utah to go to 18. The Big 10 could pick up Oregon and Washington to go to 18.

If we are magically going to get SEC/B1G money just for adding any 6 schools:

Cincinnati, Memphis, WV, Houston & TCU
All former conference members of ours.

For #6 it would be between Oklahoma St, Kansas & Baylor. Could be convinced to take more from this group to replace anyone not named Cincinnati. No to UCF, we don’t need to build up in state competition for FSU & Miami.

Could also go to 22, playing a 3+6/6/6 schedule.

(10-05-2022 01:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I think you have to be decisive and either (a) lock down the Eastern Time Zone, or (b) go West with the best available teams. Mixing strategies won't work, IMO.

(a) West Virginia, Cincinnati, USF, UCF; not enough? add Temple, UConn, Memphis*, and Houston*

* not in the ETZ

OR

(b) Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Texas Tech, TCU/Baylor, Oklahoma State, Kansas

No time for "paralysis by analysis" - ACC needs to be swift and decisive, like the Big Ten.

I think staying in their footprint is the better move.

2 for 16:
Cin and WV

2 more for 18:
UCF and USF - more in Florida is a good thing especially since FSU seems the first target.

2 more for 20:
Memphis - As long as Louisville is in the conference, Memphis is in the geographic footprint.
Navy-fb - matches up with ND for non-fb.

4 more for 24:
Temple
ECU
UConn-fb
Army-fb

(10-05-2022 06:02 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-05-2022 01:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I think you have to be decisive and either (a) lock down the Eastern Time Zone, or (b) go West with the best available teams. Mixing strategies won't work, IMO.

(a) West Virginia, Cincinnati, USF, UCF; not enough? add Temple, UConn, Memphis*, and Houston*

* not in the ETZ

OR

(b) Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Texas Tech, TCU/Baylor, Oklahoma State, Kansas

No time for "paralysis by analysis" - ACC needs to be swift and decisive, like the Big Ten.

I think staying in their footprint is the better move.

2 for 16:
Cin and WV

2 more for 18:
UCF and USF - more in Florida is a good thing especially since FSU seems the first target.

2 more for 20:
Memphis - As long as Louisville is in the conference, Memphis is in the geographic footprint.
Navy-fb - matches up with ND for non-fb.

4 more for 24:
Temple
ECU
UConn-fb
Army-fb

I realize you've placed UConn toward the very bottom of your pecking order, but the Huskies for football-only? I'd say if the ACC can't lure them away from the Big East for all sports, then what's the point? UConn football by itself brings nothing. Even the potential for a hatred-fueled football rivalry with BC brings nothing. Nobody in the NE corridor gives a damn about college football.

(10-05-2022 09:26 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(10-05-2022 06:02 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-05-2022 01:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I think you have to be decisive and either (a) lock down the Eastern Time Zone, or (b) go West with the best available teams. Mixing strategies won't work, IMO.

(a) West Virginia, Cincinnati, USF, UCF; not enough? add Temple, UConn, Memphis*, and Houston*

* not in the ETZ

OR

(b) Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Texas Tech, TCU/Baylor, Oklahoma State, Kansas

No time for "paralysis by analysis" - ACC needs to be swift and decisive, like the Big Ten.

I think staying in their footprint is the better move.

2 for 16:
Cin and WV

2 more for 18:
UCF and USF - more in Florida is a good thing especially since FSU seems the first target.

2 more for 20:
Memphis - As long as Louisville is in the conference, Memphis is in the geographic footprint.
Navy-fb - matches up with ND for non-fb.

4 more for 24:
Temple
ECU
UConn-fb
Army-fb

I realize you've placed UConn toward the very bottom of your pecking order, but the Huskies for football-only? I'd say if the ACC can't lure them away from the Big East for all sports, then what's the point? UConn football by itself brings nothing. Even the potential for a hatred-fueled football rivalry with BC brings nothing. Nobody in the NE corridor gives a damn about college football.

they're already in the big east, so I'm not sure they'd join this ACC. And, as you mention, there are those who might not vote for them to join.

And so, fb-only likely wouldn't be a first pick - again, for reasons you state, among others.

but I still think uconn-fb has a better chance than, let's say, umass.

(10-04-2022 08:01 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  Since Week 6 is Syracuse's bye week, I'm bored. So let's assume the ACC doesn't get poached, ESPN will ensure that the money even with 20 teams will be an increase, and obviously NO SEC or B1G teams are available and ND remains Independent but still plays 5 ACC teams annually.

What 6 teams would you like to see added and why?

Mine (alphabetically)

Baylor
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Oklahoma State
Texas Christian
West Virginia

Why, these 6? Football centric schools, have fair to good football fanbases/attendance, have proven they can win from time to time in the upper echelon (Top 30 or so), 5 have played in at least 3 or more upper echelon of Bowl games in this century, and are geographically close enough to not make travel too onerous for the non-football sports.

Cheers,
Neil

Of the 5 mega markets in the US after losing Maryland, the ACC only has adequate presence in one( Florida). The SEC two ( Florida and Texas) The B1G three (NE corridor, Chicago, and Southern California).
Personally I think that 20 is at least 2 to many for any conference so I will give you four schools using as much of your list as possible with the purpose of looking for new markets, fit and football.

Of course this is an impossible task as none of the schools you have chosen are ideal, The schools you have listed are in three distinct markets, if I were choosing, I would concentrate on one market for penetration, not three.

I would eliminate UCF (redundant), Cincinnati (too mid western) and Oklahoma State (not enough population) from your list.

I would keep TCU and Baylor and add SMU and Tulane.

West Virginia is, a school to continue to consider. It has passionate fans now located throughout the southeast but really provides no new market or fit.

(10-06-2022 05:02 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-04-2022 08:01 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  Since Week 6 is Syracuse's bye week, I'm bored. So let's assume the ACC doesn't get poached, ESPN will ensure that the money even with 20 teams will be an increase, and obviously NO SEC or B1G teams are available and ND remains Independent but still plays 5 ACC teams annually.

What 6 teams would you like to see added and why?

Mine (alphabetically)

Baylor
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Oklahoma State
Texas Christian
West Virginia

Why, these 6? Football centric schools, have fair to good football fanbases/attendance, have proven they can win from time to time in the upper echelon (Top 30 or so), 5 have played in at least 3 or more upper echelon of Bowl games in this century, and are geographically close enough to not make travel too onerous for the non-football sports.

Cheers,
Neil

Of the 5 mega markets in the US after losing Maryland, the ACC only has adequate presence in one( Florida). The SEC two ( Florida and Texas) The B1G three (NE corridor, Chicago, and Southern California).
Personally I think that 20 is at least 2 to many for any conference so I will give you four schools using as much of your list as possible with the purpose of looking for new markets, fit and football.

Of course this is an impossible task as none of the schools you have chosen are ideal, The schools you have listed are in three distinct markets, if I were choosing, I would concentrate on one market for penetration, not three.

I would eliminate UCF (redundant), Cincinnati (too mid western) and Oklahoma State (not enough population) from your list.

I would keep TCU and Baylor and add SMU and Tulane.

West Virginia is, a school to continue to consider. It has passionate fans now located throughout the southeast but really provides no new market or fit.

florida & florida st ...

SPEAKING OF

(10-06-2022 05:02 AM)XLance Wrote:  Of the 5 mega markets in the US after losing Maryland, the ACC only has adequate presence in one( Florida)...

I would eliminate UCF (redundant)...

Many people realize that Upstate New York and New York City are two very different regions, and that Western Pennsylvania and Eastern Pennsylvania are not the same... but they may not realize that Florida is not just 2, but really 3 regions - North, Central, and South Florida:



The ACC is in North Florida (FSU) and South Florida (Miami), but not Central Florida (either UCF or USF would do).

I think you can make an argument for one more team in the Sunshine State - though if you say UCF and USF both are redundant, I could agree with that!

Other footprint areas not really covered by the current ACC membership:
Maryland, Ohio, and WV (no team at all)
Eastern PA (Pitt too far west)
NYC area (Syracuse too far North)
Low Country of SC (Clemson too far inland)
Tidewater VA (UVA and VT too far away)

Additions in these areas would at least plug holes in the footprint.

(10-06-2022 10:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  [...]
Other footprint areas not really covered by the current ACC membership:
Maryland, Ohio, and WV (no team at all)
Eastern PA (Pitt too far west)
NYC area (Syracuse too far North)
Low Country of SC (Clemson too far inland)
Tidewater VA (UVA and VT too far away)

Additions in these areas would at least plug holes in the footprint.

Well, adding Cinn, WV, and Temple, would help with 3 of those.

And Uconn (and maybe Army) could help a little with eastern NY.

And Navy for the Maryland/DC area.

For the rest, there's always Coastal Carolina, James Madison, Old dominion, etc. But not sure they're to this level yet.

Not that I think anything is going to change,

But I will go with these Six

Oregon
Washington
Stanford
Texas Tech
OK State
Baylor or TCU

(10-06-2022 11:45 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-06-2022 10:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  [...]
Other footprint areas not really covered by the current ACC membership:
Maryland, Ohio, and WV (no team at all)
Eastern PA (Pitt too far west)
NYC area (Syracuse too far North)
Low Country of SC (Clemson too far inland)
Tidewater VA (UVA and VT too far away)

Additions in these areas would at least plug holes in the footprint.

Well, adding Cinn, WV, and Temple, would help with 3 of those.

And Uconn (and maybe Army) could help a little with eastern NY.

And Navy for the Maryland/DC area.

For the rest, there's always Coastal Carolina, James Madison, Old dominion, etc. But not sure they're to this level yet.

James Madison is not in (or near) the Tidewater area - only ODU.

(10-06-2022 11:58 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Not that I think anything is going to change,

But I will go with these Six

Oregon
Washington
Stanford
Texas Tech
OK State
Baylor or TCU

That's the "big brand, regardless of geography" approach. I see merit in it - but ONLY if ESPN agrees to a significantly higher payout. If it's only slightly bigger, stick with the Eastern Time Zone(-ish).

(10-06-2022 10:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-06-2022 05:02 AM)XLance Wrote:  Of the 5 mega markets in the US after losing Maryland, the ACC only has adequate presence in one( Florida)...

I would eliminate UCF (redundant)...

Many people realize that Upstate New York and New York City are two very different regions, and that Western Pennsylvania and Eastern Pennsylvania are not the same... but they may not realize that Florida is not just 2, but really 3 regions - North, Central, and South Florida:



The ACC is in North Florida (FSU) and South Florida (Miami), but not Central Florida (either UCF or USF would do).

I think you can make an argument for one more team in the Sunshine State we already have more than one team in the Sunshine State- though if you say UCF and USF both are redundant, I could agree with that!

Other footprint areas not really covered by the current ACC membership:
Maryland NAVY, Ohio CINCINNATI, and WV (no team at all) POPULATION 1.8 M and shrinking
Eastern PA (Pitt too far west)TEMPLE
NYC area (Syracuse too far North) NONE
Low Country of SC (Clemson too far inland)NONE
Tidewater VA (UVA and VT too far away)NONE

Additions in these areas would at least plug holes in the footprint.

What is the population of central Florida? Compare that with the State of Texas (even if it's only 20%)

(10-06-2022 11:58 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Not that I think anything is going to change,

But I will go with these Six

Oregon
Washington
Stanford
Texas Tech
OK State
Baylor or TCU

Make it eight:
Stanford
Cal
Oregon
Washington
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
TCU
Baylor

Temple
Connecticut
Cincinnati
Central Florida
Screw Football
Villanova
Georgetown

(10-06-2022 01:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-06-2022 10:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-06-2022 05:02 AM)XLance Wrote:  Of the 5 mega markets in the US after losing Maryland, the ACC only has adequate presence in one( Florida)...

I would eliminate UCF (redundant)...

Many people realize that Upstate New York and New York City are two very different regions, and that Western Pennsylvania and Eastern Pennsylvania are not the same... but they may not realize that Florida is not just 2, but really 3 regions - North, Central, and South Florida:



The ACC is in North Florida (FSU) and South Florida (Miami), but not Central Florida (either UCF or USF would do).

I think you can make an argument for one more team in the Sunshine State we already have more than one team in the Sunshine State- though if you say UCF and USF both are redundant, I could agree with that!

Other footprint areas not really covered by the current ACC membership:
Maryland NAVY, Ohio CINCINNATI, and WV (no team at all) POPULATION 1.8 M and shrinking
Eastern PA (Pitt too far west)TEMPLE
NYC area (Syracuse too far North) NONE
Low Country of SC (Clemson too far inland)NONE
Tidewater VA (UVA and VT too far away)NONE

Additions in these areas would at least plug holes in the footprint.

What is the population of central Florida? Compare that with the State of Texas (even if it's only 20%)

Didn’t you say the ACC will add UCF and WVU?

In my opinion, UCF makes sense if and only if FSU leaves.

If the ACC expands into the State of Texas, which school would fit the best among TCU, Baylor, SMU, TTU, and Houston?

(10-06-2022 10:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-06-2022 05:02 AM)XLance Wrote:  Of the 5 mega markets in the US after losing Maryland, the ACC only has adequate presence in one( Florida)...

I would eliminate UCF (redundant)...

Many people realize that Upstate New York and New York City are two very different regions, and that Western Pennsylvania and Eastern Pennsylvania are not the same... but they may not realize that Florida is not just 2, but really 3 regions - North, Central, and South Florida:



The ACC is in North Florida (FSU) and South Florida (Miami), but not Central Florida (either UCF or USF would do).

I think you can make an argument for one more team in the Sunshine State - though if you say UCF and USF both are redundant, I could agree with that!

Other footprint areas not really covered by the current ACC membership:
Maryland, Ohio, and WV (no team at all)
Eastern PA (Pitt too far west)
NYC area (Syracuse too far North)
Low Country of SC (Clemson too far inland)
Tidewater VA (UVA and VT too far away)

Additions in these areas would at least plug holes in the footprint.

For Florida I agree - and UCF would be my Central Florida pick.

In terms of Maryland, Ohio, and WV the combo of Cincy and WVU with UVA gives us reach into those areas but only WVU gives us pull in one and it's the least populated of those three states. Maybe Navy to help out with Maryland? Not sure but an annual game against ND might help that as well if it falls under the ACC umbrella might help?

Eastern PA - Temple I suppose but don't see it myself.

NYC Area - Syracuse is the ACC's only hope here and ONLY IF we get back to our late 80s/90s form. NYC only cares about winners. And even then NYC is "fool's gold" for the most part. The best the ACC could hope for here is maybe a 2% increase of interest in this area on a regular or semi-regular basis. Unlike Boston where a good Boston College helps and of course having ND playing ACC teams too.

Can't speak to either Tidewater region in VA or Low Country of SC.

Somehow I would have to assume UVA, VT, and Clemson need to suffice there assuming each of the three live up to their potential.

But again, definitely outside my scope.

Cheers,
Neil

(10-06-2022 06:26 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(10-06-2022 10:53 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-06-2022 05:02 AM)XLance Wrote:  Of the 5 mega markets in the US after losing Maryland, the ACC only has adequate presence in one( Florida)...

I would eliminate UCF (redundant)...

Many people realize that Upstate New York and New York City are two very different regions, and that Western Pennsylvania and Eastern Pennsylvania are not the same... but they may not realize that Florida is not just 2, but really 3 regions - North, Central, and South Florida:



The ACC is in North Florida (FSU) and South Florida (Miami), but not Central Florida (either UCF or USF would do).

I think you can make an argument for one more team in the Sunshine State - though if you say UCF and USF both are redundant, I could agree with that!

Other footprint areas not really covered by the current ACC membership:
Maryland, Ohio, and WV (no team at all)
Eastern PA (Pitt too far west)
NYC area (Syracuse too far North)
Low Country of SC (Clemson too far inland)
Tidewater VA (UVA and VT too far away)

Additions in these areas would at least plug holes in the footprint.

For Florida I agree - and UCF would be my Central Florida pick.

In terms of Maryland, Ohio, and WV the combo of Cincy and WVU with UVA gives us reach into those areas but only WVU gives us pull in one and it's the least populated of those three states. Maybe Navy to help out with Maryland? Not sure but an annual game against ND might help that as well if it falls under the ACC umbrella might help?

Eastern PA - Temple I suppose but don't see it myself.

NYC Area - Syracuse is the ACC's only hope here and ONLY IF we get back to our late 80s/90s form. NYC only cares about winners. And even then NYC is "fool's gold" for the most part. The best the ACC could hope for here is maybe a 2% increase of interest in this area on a regular or semi-regular basis. Unlike Boston where a good Boston College helps and of course having ND playing ACC teams too.

Can't speak to either Tidewater region in VA or Low Country of SC.

Somehow I would have to assume UVA, VT, and Clemson need to suffice there assuming each of the three live up to their potential.

But again, definitely outside my scope.

Cheers,
Neil

I would think Clemson covers all of SC. As for NYC, no school can deliver that market because nobody up there cares about college sports. It's more about ACC network subscriptions. Ditto for BC and Pitt.

UVA and VT deliver all of VA, don't see an issue there.

The ACC really needs more riveting content without Clemson involved. Okie State and Baylor bring solid programs, so I'd start with them. WV brings a rabid and inbred fan base that can actually help ratings. You'd need 3 more to get to 20. TCU tends to be exciting and Houston has been competitive historically under multiple coaches. Kansas is a resignation away from their usual pitiful teams, but their basketball program cannot be easily dismissed. Maybe a lucrative move can be made from those, maybe not.