(10-22-2022 12:25 PM)Rojogrande Wrote:  

(10-22-2022 12:15 PM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(10-22-2022 12:05 PM)Rojogrande Wrote:  I would take NDSU and SDSU as a package deal. Hell we are already stretched all over the dang USA. Why not bring in competitive teams. NDSU brings the Football and SDSU brings the basketball. I would have preferred Mo St over Kennesaw. Mo St is still the #1 choice though if they wanted to move in my opinion.

Im glad we have KSU not Mo State. Would rather travel a few more miles to NDSU or SDSU than Mo State.

Mo St would bring a solid over all athletic department and would make only the 2nd FBS team in that state. While Kennesaw is better than an EKU or Tarelton St. I do not see how anyone thinks overall they would be a better add than Missouri St.

Kennesaw being in benefits me personally more than MoSt and that's all I care about. MoSt might be better for the league as a whole but I don't think they are that great of an add.

Would NMSU, UTEP, SHSU and LT fans be open to adding SDSU and NDSU? I really don’t think it would be that bad for travel if they came together. For travel you could setup teams to travel together for everyone. NDSU could fly with SDSU to take on both LT and SHSU back to back. I think we need to think outside of the box.

(10-22-2022 12:51 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  I think we need to think outside of the box.

Outer Division: NMSU, UTEP, SDSU, NDSU, Liberty, FIU

Inner Division: Tech, SHSU, KSU, JSU, WKU, MTSU

It's a lot of travel distance, but optimally done like this and you could muddle through for a few years. When NDSU wins a football title and leaves for the SEC you can just replace them with Delaware or UMass.

If you want 14 (to further help with travel) you could invite SFA (for inner division) and Maine for the outer.

I don't think travel costs are a huge concern for NMSU. While our budget isn't huge, we have been traveling like crazy for years with our FB team due to Independence. Plus the WAC was spread out from Seattle to Chicago at one point. Lastly, we offered to pay travel subsidies to the SBC if they added us as full members. I know travel costs are a big thing for some schools but I don't think it matters much to NMSU.

(10-22-2022 12:45 PM)FAU Connoisseur! Wrote:  

(10-17-2022 10:03 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  If we do stay at 10 the final week should be "Rivalry Saturday". Have all the pairings play each other. Granted, Sam/Tech and Liberty/FIU aren't really rivals right now but if they hype it up the fans could get into it.

If we are playing eight games just rotate who you skip outside of your rival. So you would only miss someone once every eight years.

FIU has one rival and one rival only. That would be the University of Miami. They have no time to be hyped for anything else and no ability to have more than one rival.

^^ This right here

Y'all gonna miss us so much next year haha

(10-24-2022 11:13 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  I don't think travel costs are a huge concern for NMSU. While our budget isn't huge, we have been traveling like crazy for years with our FB team due to Independence. Plus the WAC was spread out from Seattle to Chicago at one point. Lastly, we offered to pay travel subsidies to the SBC if they added us as full members. I know travel costs are a big thing for some schools but I don't think it matters much to NMSU.

How's it working out?

Spending that percentage of your budget on travel all these years?

(10-24-2022 11:29 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(10-24-2022 11:13 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  I don't think travel costs are a huge concern for NMSU. While our budget isn't huge, we have been traveling like crazy for years with our FB team due to Independence. Plus the WAC was spread out from Seattle to Chicago at one point. Lastly, we offered to pay travel subsidies to the SBC if they added us as full members. I know travel costs are a big thing for some schools but I don't think it matters much to NMSU.

How's it working out?

Spending that percentage of your budget on travel all these years?

We compete for many Olympic championships every year. I'd say we are doing pretty well.

(10-24-2022 11:29 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(10-24-2022 11:13 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  I don't think travel costs are a huge concern for NMSU. While our budget isn't huge, we have been traveling like crazy for years with our FB team due to Independence. Plus the WAC was spread out from Seattle to Chicago at one point. Lastly, we offered to pay travel subsidies to the SBC if they added us as full members. I know travel costs are a big thing for some schools but I don't think it matters much to NMSU.

How's it working out?

Spending that percentage of your budget on travel all these years?

Being so isolated from the rest of the country, I think travel cost is baked into NMSU's operating budget. Travel for games, travel for recruiting, it's just a way of life for NMSU. NMSU doesn't have much D1 football nor basketball talent just a stone's throw away like many programs in the south. If the sport requires excessive size or height the State of New Mexico in relatively barren for NMSU's needs. And NMSU can't simply bus to many D1 programs in the region like other programs have the luxury of doing on occasion. Travel cost is simply a way of life for NMSU. NMSU has been fortunate to have built a mid-major Mecca for college basketball... using the Field of Dreams premise "if you build it, they will come". Men's basketball is our crown jewel. But in other sports, the higher-than-average travel cost has probably restricted the amount of critical funding needed make NMSU truly competitive in all sports across the board. NMSU can't conduct business with all the bells and whistles that other high and mid-major programs might take for granted.

(10-24-2022 12:19 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(10-24-2022 11:29 AM)inutech Wrote:  

(10-24-2022 11:13 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  I don't think travel costs are a huge concern for NMSU. While our budget isn't huge, we have been traveling like crazy for years with our FB team due to Independence. Plus the WAC was spread out from Seattle to Chicago at one point. Lastly, we offered to pay travel subsidies to the SBC if they added us as full members. I know travel costs are a big thing for some schools but I don't think it matters much to NMSU.

How's it working out?

Spending that percentage of your budget on travel all these years?

Being so isolated from the rest of the country, I think travel cost is baked into NMSU's operating budget. Travel for games, travel for recruiting, it's just a way of life for NMSU. NMSU doesn't have much D1 football nor basketball talent just a stone's throw away like many programs in the south. If the sport requires excessive size or height the State of New Mexico in relatively barren for NMSU's needs. And NMSU can't simply bus to many D1 programs in the region like other programs have the luxury of doing on occasion. Travel cost is simply a way of life for NMSU. NMSU has been fortunate to have built a mid-major Mecca for college basketball... using the Field of Dreams premise "if you build it, they will come". Men's basketball is our crown jewel. But in other sports, the higher-than-average travel cost has probably restricted the amount of critical funding needed make NMSU truly competitive in all sports across the board. NMSU can't conduct business with all the bells and whistles that other high and mid-major programs might take for granted.

Good post, Pistol. I'd like to amend my original take to say money is important to NMSU and keeping costs down is a part of that. But our AD has never mentioned travel costs, proximity to opponent, etc. as front of mind. He does an almost weekly "Ask the AD" segment where anyone can ask him questions. He is usually on the weekly coaches show. And I have personally spoken to him many times. I do not recall him ever bringing up travel costs.

As Pistol points out, traveling long distances is a way of life for NMSU and New Mexicans alike. While the minors are very close in proximity, NuM is a 3 1/2 hour drive up the state. All my kids played multiple sports in HS. It was not uncommon to drive 3-4 hours for a weekday matchup with another school and get home after midnight. Many district foes are a couple hours away. We drive 7 hours to Phoenix, 9 hours to Vegas and 11 hours to Los Angeles regularly. It's just what we do.

If Enemas U. can have baseball it seems that they don't have a problem spending the money. UTEP had mens baseball at one time but gave it up and we need to bring it back.

You must have great not good recruiters because you always seem to get very good basketball players. I don't know how UTEP can't have the same luck being that the city has more entertainment venues and prettier women. LOL

(10-24-2022 01:58 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  If Enemas U. can have baseball it seems that they don't have a problem spending the money. UTEP had mens baseball at one time but gave it up and we need to bring it back.

You must have great not good recruiters because you always seem to get very good basketball players. I don't know how UTEP can't have the same luck being that the city has more entertainment venues and prettier women. LOL

In the 1980's thru early 1990's UTEP had it rolling much like NMSU has it going currently. I remember when Haskins had players like Tim Hardaway, Antonio Davis, Greg Foster... etc. UTEP was always in the hunt for a WAC Championship.

Joe Golding just needs to get the Miner program on solid footing. Once he establishes his system with the right players, success will be like a snowball going downhill, it will get bigger and bigger. At that point, recruiting will get easier for UTEP. They have a winning tradition/history to sell recruits.

My biggest fear at NMSU is that we miss on our next basketball HC hire. And we start a backwards slide. UNM probably save NMSU a few years ago when they pilfered Paul Weir away from us after only one season as our coach. A blessing in disguise that allowed NMSU to hire Chris Jans. The momentum of winning is hard to maintain with a head coaching revolving door. I think we found a good replacement for Jans in Greg Heiar... maybe too good.

Stay at 10 because rivals based on closeness are overrated. If a couple of schools are competing at the top of a conference and knocking each other out of winning....

no matter the location they will start to dislike each other. This thing about "rivals" and closeness and fan suppose is mostly a myth if we are talking meaningful increase numbers.

As far as travel in sports other than football schedule round robin (18 games) and that gives each school 2 OOC games to pick up games vs schools in their close region. Travel expense is not only about conference games...

money spent or money saved counts just as much in or out of conference. All of us (G5) are in the same boat looking to save money where we can so how hard can it be to schedule two extra regional games and especially for those east of the Mississippi or east Texas. So find a couple OCC travel partners.

If this conference becomes what I believe it can be in basketball those extra ooc wins will payoff not just money saved on travel. Travel cost is not changing for NMST or UTEP and they dont seem to be worried about it because they always had to deal with it. The same for FIU and they are most likely getting the lowest flights in America on traveling East of Dallas. for non charter flights. Anyone think not playing FAU is going to change that? Its only one game across all sports so some savings but they will deal with that.

(10-22-2022 08:11 AM)justjim Wrote:  If NDSU joins football only.
Then maybe invite FGCU (dunk city) for Olympic sports only.
Then if CUSA can convince NC A & T to join everyone will have a travel partner and it will be a 12 team football and basketball conference.
Just a thought.

First off, I **HATE** the idea of adding football-only and non-football schools.

That said, this kind of plan makes sense if your football and non-football additions add value, which NDSU and (arguably) FGCU would.

The problem is, it doesn't really address the biggest current problem: if we break into East-West divisions (which is intended to help OLY sports more than football) then we need two WESTERN teams in all sports for proper balance:

WEST (5 teams football; 4 teams OLY)
La Tech
SHSU
UTEP
NMSU
NDSU (football only)

EAST (6 teams football; 7 teams OLY)
Liberty
FIU
KSU
WKU
MTSU
Jax State
FGCU (OLY only)

With East-West divisions, unfortunately, there's just no way to address the lack of travel partners for Liberty and FIU without either expanding to 16 teams or throwing some "east" teams into the wrong division, which defeats the whole purpose of expanding and adding divisions in the first place. So the idea of adding travel partners needs to take a back seat to divisional balance.

With that in mind, the hybrid model would work great if we found two non-football schools in the West to pair with NDSU-SDSU as football-only additions. You'd get something like this:

WEST (6 teams football; 6 teams OLY)
La Tech
SHSU
UTEP
NMSU
NDSU (football only) / _???_ (OLY only western school)
SDSU (football only) / _???_ (OLY only western school)

EAST (6 teams football; 6 teams OLY)
Liberty
FIU
KSU
WKU
MTSU
Jax State

That works out great. All you'd need are the two OLY only western schools who bring value to the conference.

For travel savings to be anywhere near substantial, the two OLY programs would need to be located in Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas, western Mississippi, or southeastern New Mexico.

Candidates might include UALR, Oral Roberts, TAMU-Corpus Christi, or UT-Arlington. (I'd include UTRGV, but they're adding football.)

It's neither a deep, nor particularly impressive field. ORU would be a decent pickup for men's basketball and baseball. UT-A for women's hoops. That's about it. I'm not sure that either would be enough to warrant the addition.

Hate to say it, since I think both NDSU and SDSU would be excellent additions, but I think waiting is still our best option.

One more thing... if we were to add NDSU (even for football only) it might be enough to sway MoSt to join (instead of SDSU), which would mean we'd only need one OLY-only western school instead of two.

That certainly helps, but it doesn't improve the field of candidates for that final non-football program.

WEST (6 teams football; 6 teams OLY)
La Tech
SHSU
UTEP
NMSU
MO State (all sports)
NDSU (football only) / _???_ (OLY only western school)

EAST (6 teams football; 6 teams OLY)
Liberty
FIU
KSU
WKU
MTSU
Jax State

(10-24-2022 02:34 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(10-24-2022 01:58 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  If Enemas U. can have baseball it seems that they don't have a problem spending the money. UTEP had mens baseball at one time but gave it up and we need to bring it back.

You must have great not good recruiters because you always seem to get very good basketball players. I don't know how UTEP can't have the same luck being that the city has more entertainment venues and prettier women. LOL

In the 1980's thru early 1990's UTEP had it rolling much like NMSU has it going currently. I remember when Haskins had players like Tim Hardaway, Antonio Davis, Greg Foster... etc. UTEP was always in the hunt for a WAC Championship.

Joe Golding just needs to get the Miner program on solid footing. Once he establishes his system with the right players, success will be like a snowball going downhill, it will get bigger and bigger. At that point, recruiting will get easier for UTEP. They have a winning tradition/history to sell recruits.

My biggest fear at NMSU is that we miss on our next basketball HC hire. And we start a backwards slide. UNM probably save NMSU a few years ago when they pilfered Paul Weir away from us after only one season as our coach. A blessing in disguise that allowed NMSU to hire Chris Jans. The momentum of winning is hard to maintain with a head coaching revolving door. I think we found a good replacement for Jans in Greg Heiar... maybe too good.

NMSU has had 7 coaches since the late 80's (McCarthy, Henson 2.0, Theus, Menzies, Judas, Jans and now Heiar). The verdict is obviously out on Heiar but every other coach on that list has made an NCAA tourney appearance. That's 30+ years of success with very few lean years in between. We have maintained winning and we have had somewhat of a revolving door.

(10-24-2022 03:43 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(10-24-2022 02:34 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(10-24-2022 01:58 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  If Enemas U. can have baseball it seems that they don't have a problem spending the money. UTEP had mens baseball at one time but gave it up and we need to bring it back.

You must have great not good recruiters because you always seem to get very good basketball players. I don't know how UTEP can't have the same luck being that the city has more entertainment venues and prettier women. LOL

In the 1980's thru early 1990's UTEP had it rolling much like NMSU has it going currently. I remember when Haskins had players like Tim Hardaway, Antonio Davis, Greg Foster... etc. UTEP was always in the hunt for a WAC Championship.

Joe Golding just needs to get the Miner program on solid footing. Once he establishes his system with the right players, success will be like a snowball going downhill, it will get bigger and bigger. At that point, recruiting will get easier for UTEP. They have a winning tradition/history to sell recruits.

My biggest fear at NMSU is that we miss on our next basketball HC hire. And we start a backwards slide. UNM probably save NMSU a few years ago when they pilfered Paul Weir away from us after only one season as our coach. A blessing in disguise that allowed NMSU to hire Chris Jans. The momentum of winning is hard to maintain with a head coaching revolving door. I think we found a good replacement for Jans in Greg Heiar... maybe too good.

NMSU has had 7 coaches since the late 80's (McCarthy, Henson 2.0, Theus, Menzies, Judas, Jans and now Heiar). The verdict is obviously out on Heiar but every other coach on that list has made an NCAA tourney appearance. That's 30+ years of success with very few lean years in between. We have maintained winning and we have had somewhat of a revolving door.

WKU has had 9 coaches since the mid 80's

(10-24-2022 03:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Stay at 10 because rivals based on closeness are overrated. If a couple of schools are competing at the top of a conference and knocking each other out of winning....

no matter the location they will start to dislike each other. This thing about "rivals" and closeness and fan suppose is mostly a myth if we are talking meaningful increase numbers.

As far as travel in sports other than football schedule round robin (18 games) and that gives each school 2 OOC games to pick up games vs schools in their close region. Travel expense is not only about conference games...

money spent or money saved counts just as much in or out of conference. All of us (G5) are in the same boat looking to save money where we can so how hard can it be to schedule two extra regional games and especially for those east of the Mississippi or east Texas. So find a couple OCC travel partners.

If this conference becomes what I believe it can be in basketball those extra ooc wins will payoff not just money saved on travel. Travel cost is not changing for NMST or UTEP and they dont seem to be worried about it because they always had to deal with it. The same for FIU and they are most likely getting the lowest flights in America on traveling East of Dallas. for non charter flights. Anyone think not playing FAU is going to change that? Its only one game across all sports so some savings but they will deal with that.

There are conference rivals and there are RIVALS. Most on here are talking about conference rivals which come and go with success, fans, head-to-head games, other circumstances and can change over time.

NMSU has had conference rivalries with Utah State in the old WAC and GCU in the current WAC. Those are fine and drum up interest in the conference. NMSU and the minors are RIVALS. Conferences, geography, travel partners, etc. mean nothing. They will always be RIVALS until the end of time.

(10-24-2022 04:07 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(10-24-2022 03:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Stay at 10 because rivals based on closeness are overrated. If a couple of schools are competing at the top of a conference and knocking each other out of winning....

no matter the location they will start to dislike each other. This thing about "rivals" and closeness and fan suppose is mostly a myth if we are talking meaningful increase numbers.

As far as travel in sports other than football schedule round robin (18 games) and that gives each school 2 OOC games to pick up games vs schools in their close region. Travel expense is not only about conference games...

money spent or money saved counts just as much in or out of conference. All of us (G5) are in the same boat looking to save money where we can so how hard can it be to schedule two extra regional games and especially for those east of the Mississippi or east Texas. So find a couple OCC travel partners.

If this conference becomes what I believe it can be in basketball those extra ooc wins will payoff not just money saved on travel. Travel cost is not changing for NMST or UTEP and they dont seem to be worried about it because they always had to deal with it. The same for FIU and they are most likely getting the lowest flights in America on traveling East of Dallas. for non charter flights. Anyone think not playing FAU is going to change that? Its only one game across all sports so some savings but they will deal with that.

There are conference rivals and there are RIVALS. Most on here are talking about conference rivals which come and go with success, fans, head-to-head games, other circumstances and can change over time.

NMSU has had conference rivalries with Utah State in the old WAC and GCU in the current WAC. Those are fine and drum up interest in the conference. NMSU and the minors are RIVALS. Conferences, geography, travel partners, etc. mean nothing. They will always be RIVALS until the end of time.

NMSU has played UTEP (The Battle of I-10) and UNM (The Battle of I-25) twice each season in basketball regardless of conference affiliation... The Rio Grande Rivalries. This is also partly why NMSU refused to drop down a division in football and go independent (for the foreseeable future) instead when they lost their FBS home in the SBC. Those two rivalries mean a great deal to our local community.

NDSU:

NO media mkt
NO recruiting grounds
NO student recruitment grounds

Travel costs

Hybrid problem added to the league

So... NO thanks!

(10-24-2022 05:40 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  NDSU:

NO media mkt
NO recruiting grounds
NO student recruitment grounds

Travel costs

Hybrid problem added to the league

So... NO thanks!

Exactly. Yes, they are a great FCS program but your list sums up the reasons it should not happen well.