(11-03-2022 12:13 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 11:45 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 10:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 09:51 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 07:58 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  "Tiers" is a way of describing the terms of the contracts. In the simplest case where one broadcast has first pick or picks every week, then another has a pick or picks, and then there are the remaining games, which would owned by the schools in the old days, and were then aggregated into conference networks, you've got your tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3 rights -- eg, CBS with the SEC GOTW, ESPN with a slate of additional SEC game, and then the SECN soaking up the balance.

But it's not like there are distinct "tier 1", "tier 2" and "tier 3" rights to sell, it's just a shorthand way of describing the priorities of the different media partners. There are sometimes some complicated systems of making the picks from the entire whole season, without any distinct "tier 1" and "tier 2" partner, and people will often still call the games left over after the main picks have been made the "tier 3" rights.

(11-02-2022 08:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  There was a point where the terms "Tier 1", "Tier 2", "Tier 3" made sense. An OTA network would have the Tier 1 rights, get first pick every week. After their selections, EPSN (or rarely another cable network) would have a certain amount of Tier 2 picks. Whatever was left was Tier 3, which the schools could try to sell on their own.

10 years ago, the Big 12 absolutely had a Tier 1-2-3 setup. ESPN/ABC had the Tier 1 rights to 14-18 games, Fox (FX, Fox OTA, Fox RSN) had the rights to the rest of the games, barring one home game for each team which was their Tier 3 game that they could sell to local TV (or later nationally)

After a couple of years of that, ESPN wanted more Big 12 games, Fox wanted some of the better games, and the Big 12 wanted more money, so they made a complicated deal that made all three things happen. (Something like instead of ESPN #1-15, Fox #16-40 it was ESPN #1-5, Fox and ESPN split #6-30, Fox #31-40 except not that simple)

As time went on, and Fox tried to compete with ESPN, the packages fgot more complicated and the Tier 1 Tier 2 lines blurred.

Thank you both. So at this point while the terminology is still being used things have evolved to the point where it's not as "black and white" as it used to be. Was this terminology created by the networks or is this an organically formed description by observers of these deals? The way I interpret the Baylor AD's statement makes it sound like "high Tier 1", "low Tier 1", and then "Tier 3".

Tier 3 rights are those retained and sold in some form by the schools themselves. With the ACCN and the SECN those are pooled games in which the pool (conference teams) hold the rights and split the profits with ESPN.

In the Big 10 those are the games which are split with FOX and aired on the BTN. FOX now has 61% of that revenue and the Big 10 has 39% with FOX having purchased another 10% just prior to the Big 10's new contract.

Tier 1 rights are usually considered to be each networks first pick for the week of games to air in prime time. The more networks selecting the more T1 games you have. The Big 10 will have one on CBS, NBC and FOX's main channel (I guess you consider FS1's prime time pick to be one but that's a gray area since it would be airing against the main FOX channel). The SEC will have one on ABC and ESPN (also a gray area because of ABC's game)

Everything else is considered T2.

The issue with the Big 12 not having a conference network and with no schools retaining rights to a game is that technically all of their games now will either be Tier 1 or Tier 2. With FOX buying a certain number of football games and ESPN buying a certain number of football games. The question becomes between FOX and ESPN have all the games been picked up for viewing? If not then the Big 12 might have some games which they can sell to Amazon.

ESPN is telling the truth that the Big 12 has no T3 games to sell because no games remain in the hands of the schools.

ESPN is telling the truth to say that what they pay the Big 12 does not put them ahead of the ACC's payout.

They are telling the truth when FOX's rights don't put them ahead of the ACC revenue when paired with ESPN's payouts.

The gray area is that between the number of games that ESPN has bought, and the number of games FOX has bought, how many games remain to be sold to another broadcaster? If there are games, and those games may be sold, will that revenue equal or exceed the ACC's revenue when added to what FOX is paying them and what ESPN is paying them? And that broadcaster could be Amazon.

If that's the case, and I'm not saying it is, then the gray area may have been intentional.

OK. So why does the Baylor AD act like there is no such thing as Tier 2?

He's putting the best face on his situation that he can. Obviously, most weeks the prime slot at FOX will go to the Big 10, and at ESPN it will go to the SEC. Likewise, CBS and NBC and ABC will be showcasing Big 10 and SEC games. That doesn't mean that the Big 12 won't get some primetime slots, they will. It does however likely mean that they will have a lot of #2 slots on ESPN and FOX and maybe some off Saturday games. There's a lot of Tier 2 material which the Big 12 will fill. So the Baylor coach is trying to dress up the situation so his players feel proud about what they are doing, and they should. I have no problem with this approach. But it doesn't change the fact that the secondary slots will be filled with quite a few B12 games and Baylor will be playing in those slots sometimes.

In short, I chalk it up to coach speak. None of it changes how the rights are defined for the networks.

Hmmm. I didn't get that impression because the AD said he doesn't know why there is no Tier 2. If you skip to 9:28 in the vid I posted you can hear his exact words.

(11-02-2022 09:51 PM)Alanda Wrote:  ... Thank you both. So at this point while the terminology is still being used things have evolved to the point where it's not as "black and white" as it used to be. Was this terminology created by the networks or is this an organically formed description by observers of these deals? The way I interpret the Baylor AD's statement makes it sound like "high Tier 1", "low Tier 1", and then "Tier 3".

Yes, it does appear that they are using Tier 2 in the sense of a set of picks that are done after the Tier 1 picks are completed, and in that sense, there hasn't been a Tier 2 in the Big12 for a while ... there has been a pick order, and the two media partners make their picks in the set order. According to the reporting, it [Edit: the pick order in the contract extension] seems something like ESPN picking their first four, then Fox picking a pair, ESPN picking a pair, through the top 12 picks at least.

He was reasonably clear that the Tier3 rights are the digital distribution rights (ESPN+ and etc. -- but there is going to be a rebrand), so it seems that all of the games going on ABC, FOX broadcast, ESPN & ESPN2 and FS1 are all chosen in the "Tier1" pick process, and then the rest of the rights are for digital distribution.

(11-03-2022 12:23 AM)Alanda Wrote:  

(11-03-2022 12:13 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 11:45 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 10:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 09:51 PM)Alanda Wrote:  Thank you both. So at this point while the terminology is still being used things have evolved to the point where it's not as "black and white" as it used to be. Was this terminology created by the networks or is this an organically formed description by observers of these deals? The way I interpret the Baylor AD's statement makes it sound like "high Tier 1", "low Tier 1", and then "Tier 3".

Tier 3 rights are those retained and sold in some form by the schools themselves. With the ACCN and the SECN those are pooled games in which the pool (conference teams) hold the rights and split the profits with ESPN.

In the Big 10 those are the games which are split with FOX and aired on the BTN. FOX now has 61% of that revenue and the Big 10 has 39% with FOX having purchased another 10% just prior to the Big 10's new contract.

Tier 1 rights are usually considered to be each networks first pick for the week of games to air in prime time. The more networks selecting the more T1 games you have. The Big 10 will have one on CBS, NBC and FOX's main channel (I guess you consider FS1's prime time pick to be one but that's a gray area since it would be airing against the main FOX channel). The SEC will have one on ABC and ESPN (also a gray area because of ABC's game)

Everything else is considered T2.

The issue with the Big 12 not having a conference network and with no schools retaining rights to a game is that technically all of their games now will either be Tier 1 or Tier 2. With FOX buying a certain number of football games and ESPN buying a certain number of football games. The question becomes between FOX and ESPN have all the games been picked up for viewing? If not then the Big 12 might have some games which they can sell to Amazon.

ESPN is telling the truth that the Big 12 has no T3 games to sell because no games remain in the hands of the schools.

ESPN is telling the truth to say that what they pay the Big 12 does not put them ahead of the ACC's payout.

They are telling the truth when FOX's rights don't put them ahead of the ACC revenue when paired with ESPN's payouts.

The gray area is that between the number of games that ESPN has bought, and the number of games FOX has bought, how many games remain to be sold to another broadcaster? If there are games, and those games may be sold, will that revenue equal or exceed the ACC's revenue when added to what FOX is paying them and what ESPN is paying them? And that broadcaster could be Amazon.

If that's the case, and I'm not saying it is, then the gray area may have been intentional.

OK. So why does the Baylor AD act like there is no such thing as Tier 2?

He's putting the best face on his situation that he can. Obviously, most weeks the prime slot at FOX will go to the Big 10, and at ESPN it will go to the SEC. Likewise, CBS and NBC and ABC will be showcasing Big 10 and SEC games. That doesn't mean that the Big 12 won't get some primetime slots, they will. It does however likely mean that they will have a lot of #2 slots on ESPN and FOX and maybe some off Saturday games. There's a lot of Tier 2 material which the Big 12 will fill. So the Baylor coach is trying to dress up the situation so his players feel proud about what they are doing, and they should. I have no problem with this approach. But it doesn't change the fact that the secondary slots will be filled with quite a few B12 games and Baylor will be playing in those slots sometimes.

In short, I chalk it up to coach speak. None of it changes how the rights are defined for the networks.

Hmmm. I didn't get that impression because the AD said he doesn't know why there is no Tier 2. If you skip to 9:28 in the vid I posted you can hear his exact words.

Again, it doesn't matter what any of those guys call them. CBS 2:30 was the SEC T1 contract. Now it's ABC/ESPN. ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPN at non-prime time slots 11:00 AM 3:00 PM when the CBS game had started, anytime on the SECN none of those are T1. The SECN because the schools pooled the games, they had rights to is T3. That is the definition of T3 rights.

I smell a bunch of coaches who are trying to rebrand what has always been something else. There have been split rights by broadcasters for years. If both games are each networks prime time game, then that's 2 T1 games. Anything not on pay for view (usually sold by the school), streaming, or a conference network, and not the 1st choice game of a network for prime time, is T2 material.

These guys, and coaches, and AD's do this to make them seem more important. They are trying to change the terminology because recruits want the big audience time slots and the promotion that goes with it. If you know you aren't playing a lot of games in prime-time slot, you dress up what you have by calling it something which doesn't sound second rate.

In life, always be extremely cautious when people want to change the meaning of a word or replace the word!

Look at the ratings for the various channels and times. It is obvious which games draw the national audiences and are played in prime time and equally obvious that the others aren't simply by audience share.

But hey, as with all things look it up and see what the terms traditionally refer to. You asked this question on a message board. What defines T1, T2 and T3 have been debated ad nauseum for the 12 years I've been here and I see the same things debated on other message boards. T anything is a network term, not an athletic term. Check to see how the networks define them.

Anyway, that's my take. It's a propaganda played with semantics.

It's the games picked for each networks prime time window which are T1. How many picks a network makes for week-ends games is irrelevant beyond the top billed game. The other time slots are T2, unless it is a conference network which is T3 because there is a direct benefit from each schools pooled rights to whatever number of games their conference had once assigned to just them.

(11-03-2022 12:13 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 11:45 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 10:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 09:51 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 07:58 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  "Tiers" is a way of describing the terms of the contracts. In the simplest case where one broadcast has first pick or picks every week, then another has a pick or picks, and then there are the remaining games, which would owned by the schools in the old days, and were then aggregated into conference networks, you've got your tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3 rights -- eg, CBS with the SEC GOTW, ESPN with a slate of additional SEC game, and then the SECN soaking up the balance.

But it's not like there are distinct "tier 1", "tier 2" and "tier 3" rights to sell, it's just a shorthand way of describing the priorities of the different media partners. There are sometimes some complicated systems of making the picks from the entire whole season, without any distinct "tier 1" and "tier 2" partner, and people will often still call the games left over after the main picks have been made the "tier 3" rights.

(11-02-2022 08:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  There was a point where the terms "Tier 1", "Tier 2", "Tier 3" made sense. An OTA network would have the Tier 1 rights, get first pick every week. After their selections, EPSN (or rarely another cable network) would have a certain amount of Tier 2 picks. Whatever was left was Tier 3, which the schools could try to sell on their own.

10 years ago, the Big 12 absolutely had a Tier 1-2-3 setup. ESPN/ABC had the Tier 1 rights to 14-18 games, Fox (FX, Fox OTA, Fox RSN) had the rights to the rest of the games, barring one home game for each team which was their Tier 3 game that they could sell to local TV (or later nationally)

After a couple of years of that, ESPN wanted more Big 12 games, Fox wanted some of the better games, and the Big 12 wanted more money, so they made a complicated deal that made all three things happen. (Something like instead of ESPN #1-15, Fox #16-40 it was ESPN #1-5, Fox and ESPN split #6-30, Fox #31-40 except not that simple)

As time went on, and Fox tried to compete with ESPN, the packages fgot more complicated and the Tier 1 Tier 2 lines blurred.

Thank you both. So at this point while the terminology is still being used things have evolved to the point where it's not as "black and white" as it used to be. Was this terminology created by the networks or is this an organically formed description by observers of these deals? The way I interpret the Baylor AD's statement makes it sound like "high Tier 1", "low Tier 1", and then "Tier 3".

Tier 3 rights are those retained and sold in some form by the schools themselves. With the ACCN and the SECN those are pooled games in which the pool (conference teams) hold the rights and split the profits with ESPN.

In the Big 10 those are the games which are split with FOX and aired on the BTN. FOX now has 61% of that revenue and the Big 10 has 39% with FOX having purchased another 10% just prior to the Big 10's new contract.

Tier 1 rights are usually considered to be each networks first pick for the week of games to air in prime time. The more networks selecting the more T1 games you have. The Big 10 will have one on CBS, NBC and FOX's main channel (I guess you consider FS1's prime time pick to be one but that's a gray area since it would be airing against the main FOX channel). The SEC will have one on ABC and ESPN (also a gray area because of ABC's game)

Everything else is considered T2.

The issue with the Big 12 not having a conference network and with no schools retaining rights to a game is that technically all of their games now will either be Tier 1 or Tier 2. With FOX buying a certain number of football games and ESPN buying a certain number of football games. The question becomes between FOX and ESPN have all the games been picked up for viewing? If not then the Big 12 might have some games which they can sell to Amazon.

ESPN is telling the truth that the Big 12 has no T3 games to sell because no games remain in the hands of the schools.

ESPN is telling the truth to say that what they pay the Big 12 does not put them ahead of the ACC's payout.

They are telling the truth when FOX's rights don't put them ahead of the ACC revenue when paired with ESPN's payouts.

The gray area is that between the number of games that ESPN has bought, and the number of games FOX has bought, how many games remain to be sold to another broadcaster? If there are games, and those games may be sold, will that revenue equal or exceed the ACC's revenue when added to what FOX is paying them and what ESPN is paying them? And that broadcaster could be Amazon.

If that's the case, and I'm not saying it is, then the gray area may have been intentional.

OK. So why does the Baylor AD act like there is no such thing as Tier 2?

He's putting the best face on his situation that he can. Obviously, most weeks the prime slot at FOX will go to the Big 10, and at ESPN it will go to the SEC. Likewise, CBS and NBC and ABC will be showcasing Big 10 and SEC games. That doesn't mean that the Big 12 won't get some primetime slots, they will. It does however likely mean that they will have a lot of #2 slots on ESPN and FOX and maybe some off Saturday games. There's a lot of Tier 2 material which the Big 12 will fill. So the Baylor coach is trying to dress up the situation so his players feel proud about what they are doing, and they should. I have no problem with this approach. But it doesn't change the fact that the secondary slots will be filled with quite a few B12 games and Baylor will be playing in those slots sometimes.

In short, I chalk it up to coach speak. None of it changes how the rights are defined for the networks.

Prime time for the Big 10 is restricted to NBC. Fox and CBS cannot show Big 10 games then. So if Fox does a prime time game, it will have to be Big 12 (or Pac 10 if they get a piece of that contract). ABC will show the best prime time game, which will normally be SEC, but occasionally Big 12 or ACC or possibly Pac 10.

(11-03-2022 12:26 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 09:51 PM)Alanda Wrote:  ... Thank you both. So at this point while the terminology is still being used things have evolved to the point where it's not as "black and white" as it used to be. Was this terminology created by the networks or is this an organically formed description by observers of these deals? The way I interpret the Baylor AD's statement makes it sound like "high Tier 1", "low Tier 1", and then "Tier 3".

Yes, it does appear that they are using Tier 2 in the sense of a set of picks that are done after the Tier 1 picks are completed, and in that sense, there hasn't been a Tier 2 in the Big12 for a while ... there has been a pick order, and the two media partners make their picks in the set order. According to the reporting, it seems something like ESPN picking their first four, then Fox picking a pair, ESPN picking a pair, through the top 12 picks at least.

He was reasonably clear that the Tier3 rights are the digital distribution rights (ESPN+ and etc. -- but there is going to be a rebrand), so it seems that all of the games going on ABC, FOX broadcast, ESPN & ESPN2 and FS1 are all chosen in the "Tier1" pick process, and then the rest of the rights are for digital distribution.

All the contracts are different. Technically, the Big 10 didn't have a Tier 3. The BTN picked with Fox and ESPN for everything after Tier 1. They didn't have to wait until Fox and ESPN got all they wanted to pick. So the Big 10 had a Tier 1 and Tier 2/3 combined.

It seems like all the Big 12 teams except for UT, OU and WVU had pretty much merged their tier 3 rights by 2015.

WVU had a really long tier 3 contract that they signed while still in the Big East that expired in 2020. In 2020, WVU merged their rights with the other 7 schools.

(11-03-2022 09:22 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-03-2022 12:26 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 09:51 PM)Alanda Wrote:  ... Thank you both. So at this point while the terminology is still being used things have evolved to the point where it's not as "black and white" as it used to be. Was this terminology created by the networks or is this an organically formed description by observers of these deals? The way I interpret the Baylor AD's statement makes it sound like "high Tier 1", "low Tier 1", and then "Tier 3".

Yes, it does appear that they are using Tier 2 in the sense of a set of picks that are done after the Tier 1 picks are completed, and in that sense, there hasn't been a Tier 2 in the Big12 for a while ... there has been a pick order, and the two media partners make their picks in the set order. According to the reporting, it seems something like ESPN picking their first four, then Fox picking a pair, ESPN picking a pair, through the top 12 picks at least.

He was reasonably clear that the Tier3 rights are the digital distribution rights (ESPN+ and etc. -- but there is going to be a rebrand), so it seems that all of the games going on ABC, FOX broadcast, ESPN & ESPN2 and FS1 are all chosen in the "Tier1" pick process, and then the rest of the rights are for digital distribution.

All the contracts are different.

Precisely. The "Tier" language is a shorthand to describe what the contracts in fact specify, and what contract terms have to be nailed down so that other contract terms can be finalized. A process, which was once more common, where there is one set of picks that exhausts and then a second set of picks that exhausts and then there is all of the residual rights that haven't been picked is really easy to give a shorthand for, but if media partners are willing to pay a bit more in sum total if there some other way of sorting out who gets what games, the contracts won't follow that pattern.

Quote: Technically, the Big 10 didn't have a Tier 3. The BTN picked with Fox and ESPN for everything after Tier 1. They didn't have to wait until Fox and ESPN got all they wanted to pick. So the Big 10 had a Tier 1 and Tier 2/3 combined.

Yes, and something along those lines may well continue, with the OTA partners having an exclusive set of picks, and then a widening pool when FS1 and BTN and Paramount+ enter the arena.

If there's only one media partner, then the you'd have to squint really hard to apply the whole language. The MAC's closest equivalent to Tier1/Tier2/Tier3 are the #MACtion games that are scheduled with at least a pair on a #MACtion weeknight and then ESPN decides which one goes on ESPN2, and whether to place the other one on ESPNU, ESPN3 or ESPN+, and if there are three scheduled, one of them may sometimes go to CBSSN. But any discussions about which games are available to choose from had to be completed before the schedule was released, and ESPN is free to wait until much closer to game day than that to make its ESPN2 picks.

And CBSSN is not sitting in a pick order, it's just ESPN has negotiated the right to sell one of the games on to CBSSN.

(11-02-2022 10:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 09:51 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(11-02-2022 07:58 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  "Tiers" is a way of describing the terms of the contracts. In the simplest case where one broadcast has first pick or picks every week, then another has a pick or picks, and then there are the remaining games, which would owned by the schools in the old days, and were then aggregated into conference networks, you've got your tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3 rights -- eg, CBS with the SEC GOTW, ESPN with a slate of additional SEC game, and then the SECN soaking up the balance.

But it's not like there are distinct "tier 1", "tier 2" and "tier 3" rights to sell, it's just a shorthand way of describing the priorities of the different media partners. There are sometimes some complicated systems of making the picks from the entire whole season, without any distinct "tier 1" and "tier 2" partner, and people will often still call the games left over after the main picks have been made the "tier 3" rights.

(11-02-2022 08:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  There was a point where the terms "Tier 1", "Tier 2", "Tier 3" made sense. An OTA network would have the Tier 1 rights, get first pick every week. After their selections, EPSN (or rarely another cable network) would have a certain amount of Tier 2 picks. Whatever was left was Tier 3, which the schools could try to sell on their own.

10 years ago, the Big 12 absolutely had a Tier 1-2-3 setup. ESPN/ABC had the Tier 1 rights to 14-18 games, Fox (FX, Fox OTA, Fox RSN) had the rights to the rest of the games, barring one home game for each team which was their Tier 3 game that they could sell to local TV (or later nationally)

After a couple of years of that, ESPN wanted more Big 12 games, Fox wanted some of the better games, and the Big 12 wanted more money, so they made a complicated deal that made all three things happen. (Something like instead of ESPN #1-15, Fox #16-40 it was ESPN #1-5, Fox and ESPN split #6-30, Fox #31-40 except not that simple)

As time went on, and Fox tried to compete with ESPN, the packages fgot more complicated and the Tier 1 Tier 2 lines blurred.

Thank you both. So at this point while the terminology is still being used things have evolved to the point where it's not as "black and white" as it used to be. Was this terminology created by the networks or is this an organically formed description by observers of these deals? The way I interpret the Baylor AD's statement makes it sound like "high Tier 1", "low Tier 1", and then "Tier 3".

Tier 3 rights are those retained and sold in some form by the schools themselves. With the ACCN and the SECN those are pooled games in which the pool (conference teams) hold the rights and split the profits with ESPN.

In the Big 10 those are the games which are split with FOX and aired on the BTN. FOX now has 61% of that revenue and the Big 10 has 39% with FOX having purchased another 10% just prior to the Big 10's new contract.

Tier 1 rights are usually considered to be each networks first pick for the week of games to air in prime time. The more networks selecting the more T1 games you have. The Big 10 will have one on CBS, NBC and FOX's main channel (I guess you consider FS1's prime time pick to be one but that's a gray area since it would be airing against the main FOX channel). The SEC will have one on ABC and ESPN (also a gray area because of ABC's game)

Everything else is considered T2.

The issue with the Big 12 not having a conference network and with no schools retaining rights to a game is that technically all of their games now will either be Tier 1 or Tier 2. With FOX buying a certain number of football games and ESPN buying a certain number of football games. The question becomes between FOX and ESPN have all the games been picked up for viewing? If not then the Big 12 might have some games which they can sell to Amazon.

ESPN is telling the truth that the Big 12 has no T3 games to sell because no games remain in the hands of the schools.

ESPN is telling the truth to say that what they pay the Big 12 does not put them ahead of the ACC's payout.

They are telling the truth when FOX's rights don't put them ahead of the ACC revenue when paired with ESPN's payouts.

The gray area is that between the number of games that ESPN has bought, and the number of games FOX has bought, how many games remain to be sold to another broadcaster?

Since ESPN has ESPN+, presumably none. They're not going to run out of space on ESPN+. I personally think that's a big reason that ESPN is down for a pro-rata expansion, while Fox is not. Expansion means ESPN gets more games on ESPN+ (or in the late night window).

Quote:If there are games, and those games may be sold, will that revenue equal or exceed the ACC's revenue when added to what FOX is paying them and what ESPN is paying them? And that broadcaster could be Amazon.

If that's the case, and I'm not saying it is, then the gray area may have been intentional.

I think it's more like you kind of made that up out of sheer hope. There's no reason to believe in a secret clause where the Big 12 held back some games from ESPN+.

(11-03-2022 12:26 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Yes, it does appear that they are using Tier 2 in the sense of a set of picks that are done after the Tier 1 picks are completed, and in that sense, there hasn't been a Tier 2 in the Big12 for a while ... there has been a pick order, and the two media partners make their picks in the set order. According to the reporting, it [Edit: the pick order in the contract extension] seems something like ESPN picking their first four, then Fox picking a pair, ESPN picking a pair, through the top 12 picks at least.

He was reasonably clear that the Tier3 rights are the digital distribution rights (ESPN+ and etc. -- but there is going to be a rebrand), so it seems that all of the games going on ABC, FOX broadcast, ESPN & ESPN2 and FS1 are all chosen in the "Tier1" pick process, and then the rest of the rights are for digital distribution.

Yeah the way the picks were reported, with my level of understanding I would have wondered where is the Tier 2. So looking back at that I can see why he said there was no Tier 2.

(11-03-2022 12:56 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Again, it doesn't matter what any of those guys call them. CBS 2:30 was the SEC T1 contract. Now it's ABC/ESPN. ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPN at non-prime time slots 11:00 AM 3:00 PM when the CBS game had started, anytime on the SECN none of those are T1. The SECN because the schools pooled the games, they had rights to is T3. That is the definition of T3 rights.

I smell a bunch of coaches who are trying to rebrand what has always been something else. There have been split rights by broadcasters for years. If both games are each networks prime time game, then that's 2 T1 games. Anything not on pay for view (usually sold by the school), streaming, or a conference network, and not the 1st choice game of a network for prime time, is T2 material.

These guys, and coaches, and AD's do this to make them seem more important. They are trying to change the terminology because recruits want the big audience time slots and the promotion that goes with it. If you know you aren't playing a lot of games in prime-time slot, you dress up what you have by calling it something which doesn't sound second rate.

In life, always be extremely cautious when people want to change the meaning of a word or replace the word!

Look at the ratings for the various channels and times. It is obvious which games draw the national audiences and are played in prime time and equally obvious that the others aren't simply by audience share.

But hey, as with all things look it up and see what the terms traditionally refer to. You asked this question on a message board. What defines T1, T2 and T3 have been debated ad nauseum for the 12 years I've been here and I see the same things debated on other message boards. T anything is a network term, not an athletic term. Check to see how the networks define them.

Anyway, that's my take. It's a propaganda played with semantics.

It's the games picked for each networks prime time window which are T1. How many picks a network makes for week-ends games is irrelevant beyond the top billed game. The other time slots are T2, unless it is a conference network which is T3 because there is a direct benefit from each schools pooled rights to whatever number of games their conference had once assigned to just them.

Oh don't get me wrong I had built a fundamental understanding of Tiers through research and reading posts over the past few years. That's why my original question was focused on Tier 2. I ran into a situation similar to a kid that believes in Santa Claus first finding out that what they thought wasn't the case. So when the Baylor AD said "There's no such thing as Santa Claus Tier 2" my understanding was thrown off.

I understand the thought that it's done to make it sound better. It just seems like he could have also easily spun it saying "We don't do Tier 3. We have always done Tier 1 and Tier 2." That would sound even better for propaganda.

i think it would have been simpler with 2 tiers:
1. conference games
2. out of conference home games

(11-03-2022 03:08 PM)Huan Wrote:  i think it would have been simpler with 2 tiers:
1. conference games
2. out of conference home games

Those aren't even tiers though. It's not like "Big 12 conference games" are reliably more attractive than "Big 12 OOC games" or vice versa.

(11-03-2022 03:15 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(11-03-2022 03:08 PM)Huan Wrote:  i think it would have been simpler with 2 tiers:
1. conference games
2. out of conference home games

Those aren't even tiers though. It's not like "Big 12 conference games" are reliably more attractive than "Big 12 OOC games" or vice versa.

yes. but from a seller point of view i would sell all my home games myself but this has uncertainty. by banding together (conference) i can minimize uncertainty (averaging values) by splitting my home conference games media earnings with my conference mates thus allowing the conference to package them all together and sell as a package. my remaining home games against OOC would remain mine to sell.

not saying this is the better way, just it makes more sense to me.

(11-03-2022 03:08 PM)Huan Wrote:  i think it would have been simpler with 2 tiers:
1. conference games
2. out of conference home games

Some of the out of conference games may be OTA quality and should be high up in the pick order, some may be just one step removed from a body bag buy game, and handiest to the schools for two schools satisfying a requirement to be on the conference network with a single game.

For instance, one of OSU's BTN games was the Rutgers game.

(11-03-2022 04:51 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-03-2022 03:08 PM)Huan Wrote:  i think it would have been simpler with 2 tiers:
1. conference games
2. out of conference home games

Some of the out of conference games may be OTA quality and should be high up in the pick order, some may be just one step removed from a body bag buy game, and handiest to the schools for two schools satisfying a requirement to be on the conference network with a single game.

For instance, one of OSU's BTN games was the Rutgers game.

Yormark-related bc he’s still (for now) on the nets.

Is Kyrie the worst combination of “great talent/terrible teammate” in basketball history? All of sports?