(12-22-2022 11:57 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 11:24 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 10:38 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  If there had been something the IRS would’ve had him in jail a long time ago. This was always a red herring.

So what's the biggest scandal now, tweeting the Constitution is no good if it allows election cheating?

Not really how it works with the IRS. They prefer money, not people in jail who can't make it much any more to be able to pay them back.

But since you mention audits, that's one of the things that has come out so far. They were supposed to be auditing him each year as they do with presidents, and they were not.

And there's a likely a good reason why you're not seeing much media analysis yet.

Quote:Between the lines: The tax returns have not yet been released to the public, so it was not possible to independently verify the numbers presented in the report.

The panel plans to release the returns to the public in the coming days.

Zoom out: In a separate report, the panel also said that the the IRS didn't audit Trump's taxes during the first two years of his presidency. The IRS is required to conduct mandatory reviews of presidents' tax returns.

https://www.axios.com/2022/12/21/trump-t...use-report

They (media and/or tax wonks) don't have the actual tax returns, just the house summary. And his taxes aren't like your 1040. It takes some time to go over them.

And here's the actual report:
https://waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/dem...report.pdf

I was unable to copy text from that link, but they basically note that they only had less than a month to review what they got. They also indicate that they do not have investigate powers like the IRS has to go beyond the paper copies they received. And they further note that while the IRS did not perform the review they normally do on Presidents, the IRS also did not do the type of audit the committee would expect when they did audit him that would go far enough to actually find much of anything. Again, this is a complex tax situation with all his companies.

And on the charitable donations, yeah, they appear to be a lot...even in years when he did not owe taxes. But much of them were carried over. Again the committee did not have the ability to see whether any or all of them were legit. They also note...as I've seen others note...that trump donated things and claimed deductions based on valuations that need to be verified to ascertain their validity.

I think the issue that people have with this are:

1) There is a clear vendetta to pin anything on Trump and all investigations have not had damning evidence (without believing your own conjecture)

2) The effort spent on this topic versus actual issues in the country make people believe my first point above.

You're not going to agree with these points, and obviously you spend a lot of time looking into these investigations, but a supermajority of people don't care about Trump's taxes when they're dropping $200 at the grocery store to feed their family for a week.

The house committee IS tasked with this purpose. It's not a vendetta, it's their job.

The IRS was supposed to be reviewing all his returns as president, they did not.

All other candidates for the last nearly 40 years released their tax returns. He did not. If he releases them, none of this from congress would likely be necessary.

This isn't taking a minute away from anything else regarding the operation of the country by the government.

But yes, Joe Q doesn't much give two ***** about this...and I don't much either to be honest. There's plenty of other folks with the time, resources, and knowledge to pour over this and take any appropriate actions.

(12-22-2022 12:01 PM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 11:24 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 10:38 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  If there had been something the IRS would’ve had him in jail a long time ago. This was always a red herring.

So what's the biggest scandal now, tweeting the Constitution is no good if it allows election cheating?

Not really how it works with the IRS. They prefer money, not people in jail who can't make it much any more to be able to pay them back.

But since you mention audits, that's one of the things that has come out so far. They were supposed to be auditing him each year as they do with presidents, and they were not.

And there's a likely a good reason why you're not seeing much media analysis yet.

Quote:Between the lines: The tax returns have not yet been released to the public, so it was not possible to independently verify the numbers presented in the report.

The panel plans to release the returns to the public in the coming days.

Zoom out: In a separate report, the panel also said that the the IRS didn't audit Trump's taxes during the first two years of his presidency. The IRS is required to conduct mandatory reviews of presidents' tax returns.

https://www.axios.com/2022/12/21/trump-t...use-report

They (media and/or tax wonks) don't have the actual tax returns, just the house summary. And his taxes aren't like your 1040. It takes some time to go over them.

And here's the actual report:
https://waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/dem...report.pdf

I was unable to copy text from that link, but they basically note that they only had less than a month to review what they got. They also indicate that they do not have investigate powers like the IRS has to go beyond the paper copies they received. And they further note that while the IRS did not perform the review they normally do on Presidents, the IRS also did not do the type of audit the committee would expect when they did audit him that would go far enough to actually find much of anything. Again, this is a complex tax situation with all his companies.

And on the charitable donations, yeah, they appear to be a lot...even in years when he did not owe taxes. But much of them were carried over. Again the committee did not have the ability to see whether any or all of them were legit. They also note...as I've seen others note...that trump donated things and claimed deductions based on valuations that need to be verified to ascertain their validity.

This, just like the Mar-A-Lago raid, and every other thing with Trump...if they had anything of significance, it'd be running as Breaking News 24/7 on every media outlet in America. The IRS has his taxes every year and if there was something nefarious, it would have "leaked" way before now.

But, you're too dumb to grasp that simple reality. Watching you flail about everytime the word Trump is mentioned, is quite amusing.

On the contrary, YOU ARE too dumb to realize that the IRS does not leak personal information.

You are also apparently too dumb to realize that a tax return of trump's size with all its tentacles can't merely be digested in under a month by congressional staffers.

Another nothing burger for the Democrats.

Had a conversation recently with a leftist relative (yes, it happens to us all). He was blabbering on about how much a billionaire should pay in income taxes. I kept trying to explain to him that a billionaire may be "worth" a billion but their yearly income could be far less and thus they'd only be taxed on what they earned that year. He kept saying a billionaire should pay 20-25% of a billion. He's a relative so I love him but bless his little heart.

(12-22-2022 03:26 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  Had a conversation recently with a leftist relative (yes, it happens to us all). He was blabbering on about how much a billionaire should pay in income taxes. I kept trying to explain to him that a billionaire may be "worth" a billion but their yearly income could be far less and thus they'd only be taxed on what they earned that year. He kept saying a billionaire should pay 20-25% of a billion. He's a relative so I love him but bless his little heart.

Try this one.

Tesla has 99,000+ employees. Musk pays 99,000 people. Those 99,000 people pay taxes using what Musk pays them.

Musk is paying the taxes of 99,001 people already. Is that enough?

(12-22-2022 03:26 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  Had a conversation recently with a leftist relative (yes, it happens to us all). He was blabbering on about how much a billionaire should pay in income taxes. I kept trying to explain to him that a billionaire may be "worth" a billion but their yearly income could be far less and thus they'd only be taxed on what they earned that year. He kept saying a billionaire should pay 20-25% of a billion. He's a relative so I love him but bless his little heart.

And on that same note, these claims that trump lost a billion or so while president doesn't mean he actually lost a billion dollars in income. It could all be just a loss of value in physical property he holds. Of course, with no data, who the **** actually knows.

(12-22-2022 02:46 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  

What a stunningly articulate and effective statement by candidate Trump. What happened to that man between 2016 and 2020 and after? Was the pressure too much? Were the accolades so great and perks so of the office so flattering that he began to believe that he was too great to need to try?

I shake my head in despair when I think about what he threw away - - not just for himself but for all of us.

(12-22-2022 03:30 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 03:26 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  Had a conversation recently with a leftist relative (yes, it happens to us all). He was blabbering on about how much a billionaire should pay in income taxes. I kept trying to explain to him that a billionaire may be "worth" a billion but their yearly income could be far less and thus they'd only be taxed on what they earned that year. He kept saying a billionaire should pay 20-25% of a billion. He's a relative so I love him but bless his little heart.

Try this one.

Tesla has 99,000+ employees. Musk pays 99,000 people. Those 99,000 people pay taxes using what Musk pays them.

Musk is paying the taxes of 99,001 people already. Is that enough?

That's some really poor logic. Musk doesn't just give them money for nothing. They performed a task for it, which likely made him money.

(12-22-2022 03:32 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 03:30 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 03:26 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  Had a conversation recently with a leftist relative (yes, it happens to us all). He was blabbering on about how much a billionaire should pay in income taxes. I kept trying to explain to him that a billionaire may be "worth" a billion but their yearly income could be far less and thus they'd only be taxed on what they earned that year. He kept saying a billionaire should pay 20-25% of a billion. He's a relative so I love him but bless his little heart.

Try this one.

Tesla has 99,000+ employees. Musk pays 99,000 people. Those 99,000 people pay taxes using what Musk pays them.

Musk is paying the taxes of 99,001 people already. Is that enough?

That's some really poor logic. Musk doesn't just give them money for nothing. They performed a task for it, which likely made him money.

Tesla is a poor example, because there probably are a number of employees there who generate revenue.

But for most small businesses it is the only the owner who generates revenue. The role of the employees is to support the owner in making that income generation as efficient as possible. But the source of payment or wages and taxes is specific to one man (or woman or whatever). That owner is, in effect, paying the taxes of ALL of the employees who - - as nice, helpful and valuable as they may be - - are not themselves revenue generators.

(12-22-2022 08:19 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(12-21-2022 11:52 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  More egg on the dem's faces.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

How so? I see a completely different picture based on the numbers

From what is out so far there's nothing there. The biggest apparent issue is the IRS didn't actually do their job as they should have. Where's the "gotcha" all the dems have been saying would come from this? Sure, they'll blame Trump for the IRS not doing their job, but that's just TDS anyways. With the amount of bull**** spewed by liberal politicians, you would expect checks signed by Putin himself filed into an account labeled "2016 Election Steal".

Trump is an ass, but was a great president and has played the business game long enough to know how to walk the line and use the system. You know damned well if there was a smoking gun to hang him with, it would have been the first words out of the committee's mouth.

(12-22-2022 03:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 12:01 PM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 11:24 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 10:38 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  If there had been something the IRS would’ve had him in jail a long time ago. This was always a red herring.

So what's the biggest scandal now, tweeting the Constitution is no good if it allows election cheating?

Not really how it works with the IRS. They prefer money, not people in jail who can't make it much any more to be able to pay them back.

But since you mention audits, that's one of the things that has come out so far. They were supposed to be auditing him each year as they do with presidents, and they were not.

And there's a likely a good reason why you're not seeing much media analysis yet.

Quote:Between the lines: The tax returns have not yet been released to the public, so it was not possible to independently verify the numbers presented in the report.

The panel plans to release the returns to the public in the coming days.

Zoom out: In a separate report, the panel also said that the the IRS didn't audit Trump's taxes during the first two years of his presidency. The IRS is required to conduct mandatory reviews of presidents' tax returns.

https://www.axios.com/2022/12/21/trump-t...use-report

They (media and/or tax wonks) don't have the actual tax returns, just the house summary. And his taxes aren't like your 1040. It takes some time to go over them.

And here's the actual report:
https://waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/dem...report.pdf

I was unable to copy text from that link, but they basically note that they only had less than a month to review what they got. They also indicate that they do not have investigate powers like the IRS has to go beyond the paper copies they received. And they further note that while the IRS did not perform the review they normally do on Presidents, the IRS also did not do the type of audit the committee would expect when they did audit him that would go far enough to actually find much of anything. Again, this is a complex tax situation with all his companies.

And on the charitable donations, yeah, they appear to be a lot...even in years when he did not owe taxes. But much of them were carried over. Again the committee did not have the ability to see whether any or all of them were legit. They also note...as I've seen others note...that trump donated things and claimed deductions based on valuations that need to be verified to ascertain their validity.

This, just like the Mar-A-Lago raid, and every other thing with Trump...if they had anything of significance, it'd be running as Breaking News 24/7 on every media outlet in America. The IRS has his taxes every year and if there was something nefarious, it would have "leaked" way before now.

But, you're too dumb to grasp that simple reality. Watching you flail about everytime the word Trump is mentioned, is quite amusing.

On the contrary, YOU ARE too dumb to realize that the IRS does not leak personal information.

You are also apparently too dumb to realize that a tax return of trump's size with all its tentacles can't merely be digested in under a month by congressional staffers.

You didn't really just type that with a straight face, did you?

(12-22-2022 04:15 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 03:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 12:01 PM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 11:24 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 10:38 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  If there had been something the IRS would’ve had him in jail a long time ago. This was always a red herring.

So what's the biggest scandal now, tweeting the Constitution is no good if it allows election cheating?

Not really how it works with the IRS. They prefer money, not people in jail who can't make it much any more to be able to pay them back.

But since you mention audits, that's one of the things that has come out so far. They were supposed to be auditing him each year as they do with presidents, and they were not.

And there's a likely a good reason why you're not seeing much media analysis yet.

Quote:Between the lines: The tax returns have not yet been released to the public, so it was not possible to independently verify the numbers presented in the report.

The panel plans to release the returns to the public in the coming days.

Zoom out: In a separate report, the panel also said that the the IRS didn't audit Trump's taxes during the first two years of his presidency. The IRS is required to conduct mandatory reviews of presidents' tax returns.

https://www.axios.com/2022/12/21/trump-t...use-report

They (media and/or tax wonks) don't have the actual tax returns, just the house summary. And his taxes aren't like your 1040. It takes some time to go over them.

And here's the actual report:
https://waysandmeans.house.gov/sites/dem...report.pdf

I was unable to copy text from that link, but they basically note that they only had less than a month to review what they got. They also indicate that they do not have investigate powers like the IRS has to go beyond the paper copies they received. And they further note that while the IRS did not perform the review they normally do on Presidents, the IRS also did not do the type of audit the committee would expect when they did audit him that would go far enough to actually find much of anything. Again, this is a complex tax situation with all his companies.

And on the charitable donations, yeah, they appear to be a lot...even in years when he did not owe taxes. But much of them were carried over. Again the committee did not have the ability to see whether any or all of them were legit. They also note...as I've seen others note...that trump donated things and claimed deductions based on valuations that need to be verified to ascertain their validity.

This, just like the Mar-A-Lago raid, and every other thing with Trump...if they had anything of significance, it'd be running as Breaking News 24/7 on every media outlet in America. The IRS has his taxes every year and if there was something nefarious, it would have "leaked" way before now.

But, you're too dumb to grasp that simple reality. Watching you flail about everytime the word Trump is mentioned, is quite amusing.

On the contrary, YOU ARE too dumb to realize that the IRS does not leak personal information.

You are also apparently too dumb to realize that a tax return of trump's size with all its tentacles can't merely be digested in under a month by congressional staffers.

You didn't really just type that with a straight face, did you?

Yes he did, he loves the IRS,FBI & DOJ they can do no wrong in his little book.

(12-22-2022 03:31 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 03:26 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  Had a conversation recently with a leftist relative (yes, it happens to us all). He was blabbering on about how much a billionaire should pay in income taxes. I kept trying to explain to him that a billionaire may be "worth" a billion but their yearly income could be far less and thus they'd only be taxed on what they earned that year. He kept saying a billionaire should pay 20-25% of a billion. He's a relative so I love him but bless his little heart.

And on that same note, these claims that trump lost a billion or so while president doesn't mean he actually lost a billion dollars in income. It could all be just a loss of value in physical property he holds. Of course, with no data, who the **** actually knows.

Doesnt mean he had a loss that year. Carryover losses absolutely *rock*.

I had one thing go really, really badly on me. That single year item and realization of that loss allowed me to skip capital gains for the next number of sales of investment vehicles. Years into the future.

On a side note -- I have real issues with the taxes stuff being out.

First, I understand that Congress can, by law, ask for *any* return. That is already on the icky side for me. Part of me understands it, part of it I see a rationale for, but to see Congress do this selectively like this passes that into the 'really bad form' stage.

When Congress votes to release the tax return -- simply piles it into grossly wrong behavior by Congress.

I do think that Presidents, Cabinet members, Supreme Court justices, and maybe even to Congress, should be required to release their tax information. I think when you go do that job, the public has a right to know how and where income is derived from when you take on that public responsibility.

And, I really cannot stand that Trump has never released that stuff. Further, he has continually lied through his fing teeth about doing so.

At the same time, it is absolutely wrong and improper for the Congress to selectively do what it did here.

I guess the nitwits that are jumping up and down over this forgot Trump's comment in the debates with Hillary concerning taxes. He clearly admitted he uses the tax code to his advantage without hesitation. As I recall it shut Clinton down like dropping an anvil on her head. Same thing again here. Those that don't like it need to lobby your Congressional gang representative to change the codes and stop it.

(12-22-2022 05:01 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I guess the nitwits that are jumping up and down over this forgot Trump's comment in the debates with Hillary concerning taxes. He clearly admitted he uses the tax code to his advantage without hesitation. As I recall it shut Clinton down like dropping an anvil on her head. Same thing again here. Those that don't like it need to lobby your Congressional gang representative to change the codes and stop it.

It shut her down because we know damn well she does the exact same thing. ALL rich people do the same thing, it's one way they are able to stay rich. Hell, anyone with half a brain does the same thing, rich or not.

(12-22-2022 05:21 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 05:01 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I guess the nitwits that are jumping up and down over this forgot Trump's comment in the debates with Hillary concerning taxes. He clearly admitted he uses the tax code to his advantage without hesitation. As I recall it shut Clinton down like dropping an anvil on her head. Same thing again here. Those that don't like it need to lobby your Congressional gang representative to change the codes and stop it.

It shut her down because we know damn well she does the exact same thing. ALL rich people do the same thing, it's one way they are able to stay rich. Hell, anyone with half a brain does the same thing, rich or not.

Yep...and We can be assured the tax code will not be changed by the very ones that benefit from it the most in Washington.

(12-22-2022 03:31 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 02:46 PM)bobdizole Wrote:  

What a stunningly articulate and effective statement by candidate Trump. What happened to that man between 2016 and 2020 and after? Was the pressure too much? Were the accolades so great and perks so of the office so flattering that he began to believe that he was too great to need to try?

I shake my head in despair when I think about what he threw away - - not just for himself but for all of us.

Or maybe it was the constant barrage, literally from day one, of barbs, insults, accusations, vitriolic rhetoric and the never ending and multi-pronged political hatchet jobs and harassments from the democrats as they drug him through mud pit after mud pit that made him more reactionary and less polished.

Who wouldn't be defensive? Maybe that defensiveness manifested itself in his seeming inability to articulate well while engaged in public discourse?

From my perspective, rather than throwing it away I think he had it taken from him by unstoppable forces.

Edit: Also, I didn't see the level of articulation you say he displayed. He has a strange way of speaking. He speaks in weird tenses and switches between 1st and 3rd person all the time. I have never been impressed by his command of the English language. But, once you get past the way in which he says something to the actual content of the statement on the issue(s) he's addressing, then he makes perfect sense.

(12-22-2022 05:24 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 05:21 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 05:01 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I guess the nitwits that are jumping up and down over this forgot Trump's comment in the debates with Hillary concerning taxes. He clearly admitted he uses the tax code to his advantage without hesitation. As I recall it shut Clinton down like dropping an anvil on her head. Same thing again here. Those that don't like it need to lobby your Congressional gang representative to change the codes and stop it.

It shut her down because we know damn well she does the exact same thing. ALL rich people do the same thing, it's one way they are able to stay rich. Hell, anyone with half a brain does the same thing, rich or not.

Yep...and We can be assured the tax code will not be changed by the very ones that benefit from it the most in Washington.

They might as well vote themselves a pay decrease. We know the likelihood of that.

(12-22-2022 09:10 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Or maybe it was the constant barrage, literally from day one, of barbs, insults, accusations, vitriolic rhetoric and the never ending and multi-pronged political hatchet jobs and harassments from the democrats as they drug him through mud pit after mud pit that made him more reactionary and less polished.

Who wouldn't be defensive? Maybe that defensiveness manifested itself in his seeming inability to articulate well while engaged in public discourse?

From my perspective, rather than throwing it away I think he had it taken from him by unstoppable forces.

This is a good point. I like to think of myself as a sturdy soul, but I know that I would have crumbled under just a fraction of the abuse directed at DJT and his family, business and associates. The left has proven itself to be subhuman and willing to completely destroy people with whom they disagree. (The only solace here is that they always seem to make themselves just as miserable as they are trying to make everyone else.)

Nevertheless, it wasn’t me who struck a gallant pose and rode down the escalator claiming to be the savior of America. It was Donald Trump who did that. It wasn’t me who promised repeatedly to release his tax returns only to welch on that promise. Donald Trump did that. And it wasn’t me who swore he knew when to “act presidential”, and then failed to do so when it mattered most. That was Donald Trump.

Although I can understand and forgive his in-the-moment outbursts of anger, I cannot understand and forgive his decision to make himself the focus of the 2020 election, and to insist that he and his hurt feelings were more important than the interests of nation as a whole. I’m sure that’s not how you (and perhaps most others) see it. But that’s very much how I see it.