https://www.foxnews.com/media/university...e-backlash

I think this is wrong. At its core, sure the idea is great. Let's admit only the top students regardless of race, sex, etc... Problem is, schools like W&M and UNC are already waaay less diverse than they should be.
With these "woke" programs in place, UNC is 60% white. W&M, too, is 60% white. Both are listed as below average in overall diversity, racial/ethnic diversity, & male/female diversity on the national average.
We need diversity. Why wouldn't we want diversity? People that come from different upbringings and different places. A homogenous student body always has problem with this. We should want kids that push what is the status quo and spark discussion. IMO, this strengthens a university. This narrative that these "C" black students are taking away spots from high achieving whites is dangerous, and I believe incorrect. I believe transcript wise, these minority student's accomplishments are nearly on par with their white counterparts. If minority students with poor grades are taking admissions spots from high achieving white kids, then I agree it's a problem. If a white kids transcript is marginally better than the minority one, I'm going for the minority one most of the time. W&M has way more girls than boys. I'm picking the comparable male student over the female. W&M has no shortage of high achieving white girls. Balance and diversity are the strength of any university. Inacting rules that don't promote more diverse student bodies will have colleges looking more like the 1960s than the 2020s. Is that what we really want?

Okay, help me out here. VA population is 68% white and USA population is 75% white, why would that make 60% below diverse when it is more diverse than either state or national make up by race?

I would think that being less white than both the state and national average makeup by race would be diverse.

For White, it matters if it has to be non-Hispanic White. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/t.../PST045222 has estimates for July 1, 2022. White alone is 75.8 percent, which is close to what you said, and non-Hispanic or Latino White is 59.3 percent. The difference is 16.5 percent, so about one-sixth of the population is White and Hispanic or Latino. Note that the Census misses people, is more likely to miss minorities, and two people with the same race and ethnicity may not call themselves the same race and ethnicity.

This looks like a "solution" in search of a problem. I couldn't find anything from the article that said plainly what they're trying to fix.

(02-26-2023 06:44 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  This looks like a "solution" in search of a problem

Many would argue that establishing multiple DEI departments and staff fits that description.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/these-bu...e-goes-die

(03-01-2023 05:00 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(02-26-2023 06:44 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  This looks like a "solution" in search of a problem

Many would argue that establishing multiple DEI departments and staff fits that description.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/these-bu...e-goes-die

https://hbr.org/2023/03/to-overcome-resi...driving-it

The article points out that DEI resistance usually comes from members of the majority group thinking one or more of these three things:
1) any gains for minority groups come at the expense of majority group
2) the existence of systemic bias somehow invalidates their own successes
3) acknowledging that they have privilege means that they are linked to an unfair system, which somehow makes them morally deficient

And whoo boy, that is a dead strawman in the Fox opinion piece.

(03-01-2023 11:28 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-01-2023 05:00 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(02-26-2023 06:44 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  This looks like a "solution" in search of a problem

Many would argue that establishing multiple DEI departments and staff fits that description.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/these-bu...e-goes-die

https://hbr.org/2023/03/to-overcome-resi...driving-it

The article points out that DEI resistance usually comes from members of the majority group thinking one or more of these three things:
1) any gains for minority groups come at the expense of majority group
2) the existence of systemic bias somehow invalidates their own successes
3) acknowledging that they have privilege means that they are linked to an unfair system, which somehow makes them morally deficient

And whoo boy, that is a dead strawman in the Fox opinion piece.

I’m not surprised an article featuring feedback from three profs at NYU or Harvard would focus on anything other attacking the “resistance”. Talk about straw men - “the majority”.

Maybe they should research Fairfax County VA, now becoming one of the epicenters of DEI discrimination. And the victims aren’t coming from the “majority” - it’s coming from anyone who is being discriminated by the system. In Fairfax, its citizens of Asian and Indian background.

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morni...-students/

DEI is attacking meritocracy. That’s the “system” promoting the bias. With DEI you have to adhere to discrimination to support it. That’s why it’s now losing ground and none too soon. I’m actually pleased that the majority of Americans, race aside, are finding it repulsive. They should.

At minimum, I’m pleased that it’s up for scrutiny and debate. It should be. And I think to your earlier comment that such scrutiny is a “solution looking for a problem”, the Fairfax County schools example is at least some testament that there are issues here that should be addressed.

(03-02-2023 10:14 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(03-01-2023 11:28 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-01-2023 05:00 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(02-26-2023 06:44 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  This looks like a "solution" in search of a problem

Many would argue that establishing multiple DEI departments and staff fits that description.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/these-bu...e-goes-die

https://hbr.org/2023/03/to-overcome-resi...driving-it

The article points out that DEI resistance usually comes from members of the majority group thinking one or more of these three things:
1) any gains for minority groups come at the expense of majority group
2) the existence of systemic bias somehow invalidates their own successes
3) acknowledging that they have privilege means that they are linked to an unfair system, which somehow makes them morally deficient

And whoo boy, that is a dead strawman in the Fox opinion piece.

I’m not surprised an article featuring feedback from three profs at NYU or Harvard would focus on anything other attacking the “resistance”. Talk about straw men - “the majority”.

I don't understand why you think they're "attacking" anything. I also would like you to talk more about why you think "the majority" constitutes a strawman.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...ediocrity/

That opinion is behind a paywall. Does it actually provide evidence of "attacking", or is it just more of the 3 points from the Harvard piece?

Behind the paywall? Fail…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j3LcA7dWbTk

This has gone the way every conversation goes when Fox opinion writers are asked to explain what "woke" means. Handwaving, wild gestures, and folderol, completely devoid of substance much like the nonsensical bill in the original post.

Actually, it goes like every conversation with the the left: deny and deflect. If that fails, call it misinformation, issue corrections later.

(03-03-2023 09:43 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  Handwaving, wild gestures, and folderol, completely devoid of substance

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MC_Gh3-l1Wo

(03-03-2023 10:20 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Actually, it goes like every conversation with the the left: deny and deflect. If that fails, call it misinformation, issue corrections later.

Please be specific, what exactly is being denied and what is being called a deflection? The last time I asked you to elaborate you posted a link to an opinion piece and then when I told you I couldn't read it because it requires an account, you posted a video of Oprah. I'm trying to engage here, I would like to know what the specific criticisms are of DEI that go beyond the points made in the Harvard paper.

(03-04-2023 12:47 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:20 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Actually, it goes like every conversation with the the left: deny and deflect. If that fails, call it misinformation, issue corrections later.

Please be specific, what exactly is being denied and what is being called a deflection? The last time I asked you to elaborate you posted a link to an opinion piece and then when I told you I couldn't read it because it requires an account, you posted a video of Oprah. I'm trying to engage here, I would like to know what the specific criticisms are of DEI that go beyond the points made in the Harvard paper.

Can you elaborate on why you believe why any pushback to DEI implementation is, in your words, a solution looking for a problem? Are you denying problems exist? Are those who question the implementation simply confined into the three boxes your Harvard/NYU friends provide? Do you have any curiosity about why Virginia school officials in Fairfax County would purposely withhold merit scholarships?

(03-04-2023 08:39 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 12:47 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:20 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Actually, it goes like every conversation with the the left: deny and deflect. If that fails, call it misinformation, issue corrections later.

Please be specific, what exactly is being denied and what is being called a deflection? The last time I asked you to elaborate you posted a link to an opinion piece and then when I told you I couldn't read it because it requires an account, you posted a video of Oprah. I'm trying to engage here, I would like to know what the specific criticisms are of DEI that go beyond the points made in the Harvard paper.

Can you elaborate on why you believe why any pushback to DEI implementation is, in your words, a solution looking for a problem? Are you denying problems exist? Are those who question the implementation simply confined into the three boxes your Harvard/NYU friends provide? Do you have any curiosity about why Virginia school officials in Fairfax County would purposely withhold merit scholarships?

You've put words in my mouth. The "solution looking for a problem" refers to the UNC Board of Governors voting that the university "shall neither solicit nor require an employee or applicant for academic admission or employment to affirmatively ascribe to or opine about beliefs, affiliations, ideals, or principles regarding matters of contemporary political debate or social action as a condition to admission, employment, or professional advancement," according to the resolution. An employee or applicant also can't "be solicited or required to describe his or her actions in support of, or in opposition to, such beliefs, affiliations, ideals, or principles."

"Practices prohibited here include but are not limited to solicitations or requirements for statements of commitment to particular views on matters of contemporary political debate or social action contained on applications or qualifications for admission or employment included as criteria for analysis of an employee's career progression."

I don't know what problem that policy change is meant to address, hence my statement.

In the examples you have provided, all of the positions resisting DEI appear to me to fit into the 3 points from the Harvard paper. If you think they don't, I'd like to understand why.

With regard to Fairfax County, is there evidence that it has anything to do with DEI? There were definitely a large number of Asian American students affected, but also white and black students. In the handful of articles I've read about it I can't find anything that points to the motivation of what is definitely a significant problem. Even the National Review link had only this: "Our governor, Glenn Youngkin, is spitting hot fire — well, amiably, because he’s still Glenn Youngkin — and our state attorney general, Jason Miyares, has launched an investigation to determine if the schools violated the rights of their students: “My office will investigate the entire Fairfax County Public Schools system to find out if any students were discriminated against and if their rights were violated.” " Did the investigation find anything? Is there anything related to DEI at all in that issue?

(03-04-2023 12:31 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 08:39 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 12:47 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 10:20 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Actually, it goes like every conversation with the the left: deny and deflect. If that fails, call it misinformation, issue corrections later.

Please be specific, what exactly is being denied and what is being called a deflection? The last time I asked you to elaborate you posted a link to an opinion piece and then when I told you I couldn't read it because it requires an account, you posted a video of Oprah. I'm trying to engage here, I would like to know what the specific criticisms are of DEI that go beyond the points made in the Harvard paper.

Can you elaborate on why you believe why any pushback to DEI implementation is, in your words, a solution looking for a problem? Are you denying problems exist? Are those who question the implementation simply confined into the three boxes your Harvard/NYU friends provide? Do you have any curiosity about why Virginia school officials in Fairfax County would purposely withhold merit scholarships?

You've put words in my mouth. The "solution looking for a problem" refers to the UNC Board of Governors voting that the university "shall neither solicit nor require an employee or applicant for academic admission or employment to affirmatively ascribe to or opine about beliefs, affiliations, ideals, or principles regarding matters of contemporary political debate or social action as a condition to admission, employment, or professional advancement," according to the resolution. An employee or applicant also can't "be solicited or required to describe his or her actions in support of, or in opposition to, such beliefs, affiliations, ideals, or principles."

"Practices prohibited here include but are not limited to solicitations or requirements for statements of commitment to particular views on matters of contemporary political debate or social action contained on applications or qualifications for admission or employment included as criteria for analysis of an employee's career progression."

I don't know what problem that policy change is meant to address, hence my statement.

In the examples you have provided, all of the positions resisting DEI appear to me to fit into the 3 points from the Harvard paper. If you think they don't, I'd like to understand why.

With regard to Fairfax County, is there evidence that it has anything to do with DEI? There were definitely a large number of Asian American students affected, but also white and black students. In the handful of articles I've read about it I can't find anything that points to the motivation of what is definitely a significant problem. Even the National Review link had only this: "Our governor, Glenn Youngkin, is spitting hot fire — well, amiably, because he’s still Glenn Youngkin — and our state attorney general, Jason Miyares, has launched an investigation to determine if the schools violated the rights of their students: “My office will investigate the entire Fairfax County Public Schools system to find out if any students were discriminated against and if their rights were violated.” " Did the investigation find anything? Is there anything related to DEI at all in that issue?

Geez Tribeintheburg, I hope you’re job isn’t based on making coherent arguments. Word salad.

Even though your MO is just to get last word, I will keep an eye and update the thread as per any updates from Chapel Hill, elsewhere or the updated from Mr. Miyares, fellow alum.

Go Tribe!

(03-04-2023 03:49 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Geez Tribeintheburg, I hope you’re job isn’t based on making coherent arguments. Word salad.

You asked questions and I replied to them in detail. What in particular did you think was "word salad" and why?