https://www.outkick.com/utah-utes-pac-12...ng-charge/

Quote:However, Utah is behind closed doors as a vocal leader for keeping the conference together, according to KSL Sports’ Michelle Bodkin.

“I have multiple sources around Utah and the Pac-12 that have said from the start it is Utah’s desire to remain with the Pac-12. One of those sources with the Pac-12 specifically told me they talked with one of the higher-ups in the conference who is in all of the meetings, and they said Utah has been leading a lot of the charge,” Bodkin wrote Friday.

IMO, Utah gains status from rubbing elbows with Cal, Stanford etc.

And the last thing I think they want to do is to have to show up at the nB12 doorstep hat in hand, begging the nB12 schools, including BYU now, for admittance.

This will cost them in the long run. I still think two schools will jump, and then the flood gates will open.

It’d be unfortunate for them if they did all this work to keep the PAC together, only for it to look a lot like the MWC they left a decade ago. Each school has to do what’s best for themselves, and the current Pac with a couple schools added is probably what’s best for Utah, but the smoke is there that would indicate that the PAC three years from now is very different from the PAC today.

(03-13-2023 09:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO, Utah gains status from rubbing elbows with Cal, Stanford etc.

And the last thing I think they want to do is to have to show up at the nB12 doorstep hat in hand, begging the nB12 schools, including BYU now, for admittance.

This.

They spent years working to elevate themselves into the Pac. For the past decade, it has set them above and apart from BYU. And, on the field, they have played in the last two Rose Bowls. They're not letting the Pac fall apart without a fight.

And, not only would they prefer to be separate from BYU, they don't want to be seen asking BYU for a favor.

The downside of this gamble: If Oregon and Washington move on to the B1G, Utah is left trying to make something out of the Pac. That gets worse for them if Cal and Stanford also end up in the B1G.

It's still safe to assume to the Big 12 will probably still be available for the 4C if SHTF, but who knows, maybe the networks only take them at lower shares if the PAC falls apart by 2030.

How long of a contract does the Rose Bowl offer the PAC12/10 for the next cycle?

(03-13-2023 09:27 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Arizona State I heard is working behind the scenes to keep the PAC 12 together. Same with Colorado.

Thanks for the update, David. Keep us up to speed.

(03-13-2023 09:01 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  https://www.outkick.com/utah-utes-pac-12...ng-charge/

Quote:However, Utah is behind closed doors as a vocal leader for keeping the conference together, according to KSL Sports’ Michelle Bodkin.

“I have multiple sources around Utah and the Pac-12 that have said from the start it is Utah’s desire to remain with the Pac-12. One of those sources with the Pac-12 specifically told me they talked with one of the higher-ups in the conference who is in all of the meetings, and they said Utah has been leading a lot of the charge,” Bodkin wrote Friday.

Nice to see this confirmed, but we've been hearing reports for awhile that Utah wants to stay with the NW schools.

I still think that the schools to watch are the AZ schools.

Losing USC/UCLA was a blow to them, I think. And if the B12 is willing to add SDSU and maybe another nearby school like Fresno State, I think the AZ schools might move.

Colorado is interesting.

People say that one of the Reasons that Colorado likes the PAC was the southern cal recruiting.

But anyone who's been watching the overhaul at Colorado right now might be wondering if that's being turned on its head.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are looking at Florida for recruiting options. And that's something that the B12 is about to have (UCF).

And this idea of Colorado not wanting to go "back", is to me nonsense.

The reasons that they left - uncertainty due to non-committal from certain power players in the conference - seems eerily familiar in the current situation in the PAC.

So I think that circumstances are looking good for Colorado to be looking for greener pastures.

(03-13-2023 09:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO, Utah gains status from rubbing elbows with Cal, Stanford etc.

And the last thing I think they want to do is to have to show up at the nB12 doorstep hat in hand, begging the nB12 schools, including BYU now, for admittance.

I maintain that it makes zero sense for any P12 team to join the Big 12. To join West Virginia, Cincinnati, UCF, BYU and Baylor it just makes no sense to me for a variety of reasons.

If the SEC ever decides to expand to the West, I could see Utah and Arizona State being considered. Those two IMO are the closest thing to the SEC cultural wise. Maybe JRSec can give a more detailed explanation if I’m wrong or right.

As for the Pac-12, of course Utah wants the conference to survive. They’re the one school that has done the right things in athletics and academics only to see their hard work reduced to the level of the conference they left behind in 2011.

(03-13-2023 10:00 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(03-13-2023 09:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO, Utah gains status from rubbing elbows with Cal, Stanford etc.

And the last thing I think they want to do is to have to show up at the nB12 doorstep hat in hand, begging the nB12 schools, including BYU now, for admittance.

I maintain that it makes zero sense for any P12 team to join the Big 12. To join West Virginia, Cincinnati, UCF, BYU and Baylor it just makes no sense to me for a variety of reasons.

I agree with this. If I were any of the PAC teams, I would not join the nB12.

This is an opportunity to show the world that Media Money isn't the single most important factor in realignment.

(03-13-2023 09:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO, Utah gains status from rubbing elbows with Cal, Stanford etc.

And the last thing I think they want to do is to have to show up at the nB12 doorstep hat in hand, begging the nB12 schools, including BYU now, for admittance.

Yes, this is the constant theme here.

If the Big 12 were offering Big Ten/SEC money, then it would be a different story, but that’s not happening.

This is what makes conference realignment at the power conference levels a much more complex discussion than the binary metrics of whether one league is earning 10% more than another league or if the football performance is better in one conference versus the other conference.

At the end of the day, the single most elitist group of people in the entire country consists of presidents of AAU and top academic research universities.

So, I’m constantly amazed in these realignment discussions that fans are surprised when these people often make decisions based on elitism. Now, once again, there’s a “price” to trade out that elitism if Big Ten or SEC money comes along (with the bonus of the Big Ten being that you can even step up in elite class), but the Big 12 isn’t offering a dramatic difference (and maybe not even be offering more money once the Pac-12 deals are done).

As I’ve said elsewhere, there’s a MUCH bigger power/non-power dynamic in higher education going on beyond sports. If you’re an elite institution, then you’re growing stronger financially and getting more applicants than ever, but if you’re not an elite institution, then you’re generally struggling. People need to understand this backdrop and why the top academic institutions are very reticent to go “slumming” in their minds on any level in this environment, including in athletics, where academic rankings honestly mean more than ever for institutional strength. Once again, it’s one thing to triple your money in the SEC (in which case academic rankings go out the window at that point), but even $10 million more per year in the Big 12 really doesn’t do much for the Pac-12 schools if they’re maintaining such a larger big picture academic prestige advantage.

Utah sipped from the cup of academic elitism and like any intoxicant it's hard to put down.

(03-13-2023 10:05 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-13-2023 09:49 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I am not surprised after viewing Utah message boards and social media the past couple months. Their fans have been really outspoken about this and have intertwined politics and class into conference realignment, calling the BXII a "Truck Stop Conference" (I didn't realize Utah was high society) and referring to BXII fans as coming from QAnon.

BYU doesn't suck. Utah doesn't suck. The Big XII doesn't suck

Finding excuses to halt rivalries that make College Football special — like Utah-BYU in 2014 and '20 and UT-A&M-UT from 2012-2022 — does suck.

Big-time.

Nobody cared when Cincinnati a trophy game against a team they played 100 miles down the road since 1929. In fact, UC was told to shut the hell up.

(03-13-2023 09:44 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  Colorado is interesting.

People say that one of the Reasons that Colorado likes the PAC was the southern cal recruiting.

But anyone who's been watching the overhaul at Colorado right now might be wondering if that's being turned on its head.

From which states has their new FB coach normally recruited?

(03-13-2023 10:15 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-13-2023 09:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO, Utah gains status from rubbing elbows with Cal, Stanford etc.

And the last thing I think they want to do is to have to show up at the nB12 doorstep hat in hand, begging the nB12 schools, including BYU now, for admittance.

Yes, this is the constant theme here.

If the Big 12 were offering Big Ten/SEC money, then it would be a different story, but that’s not happening.

This is what makes conference realignment at the power conference levels a much more complex discussion than the binary metrics of whether one league is earning 10% more than another league or if the football performance is better in one conference versus the other conference.

At the end of the day, the single most elitist group of people in the entire country consists of presidents of AAU and top academic research universities.

So, I’m constantly amazed in these realignment discussions that fans are surprised when these people often make decisions based on elitism. Now, once again, there’s a “price” to trade out that elitism if Big Ten or SEC money comes along (with the bonus of the Big Ten being that you can even step up in elite class), but the Big 12 isn’t offering a dramatic difference (and maybe not even be offering more money once the Pac-12 deals are done).

Frank, I think part of it is posters not recognizing elitism.

But part of it is posters assuming / believing that the PAC media deal will be a complete disaster, even without defections. Scarred veterans of the New Big East fiasco are especially prone to this view.
"Complete disaster" definitions: $30M per school, 80+% Apple TV Or less than $20M per school, 50%+ streaming.

At that point, schools that prefer to stay in the PAC *will* jump to the Big 12. Or the Big 10. Which will reduce the value of the media deal further. Sparking further defections.

Utah may be a special case -- non-major within living memory, AAU, associated with Cal and Stanford, "BYU problem". They're not a school whose alumni are used to being in a power conference for 70 years, and BYU makes them MORE sensitive to academic elitism.

But a Colorado -- cut off from southern California anyway (SDSU lol), close-enough-to-a-century of big-time college football in the Big 12 and Big 8 -- is very likely to jump to the Big 12 rather than be demoted from power-conference or even Big 12- ACC level college football.

Especially a PAC which loses a couple more of their current 10, and is backfilling with either the likes of Colorado State and Rice, or Fresno State and Boise State. That is not the PAC-10 that Coloado joined ten years ago.

Quote:... but even $10 million more per year in the Big 12 really doesn’t do much for the Pac-12 schools if they’re maintaining such a larger big picture academic prestige advantage.

(03-13-2023 10:20 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  Utah sipped from the cup of academic elitism and like any intoxicant it's hard to put down.

Not just a sip--it's in their DNA. The tribal Other is BYU the Mormon Notre Dame and always has been. Now they're tied to Stanford and Cal, while BYU is in a "truck stop conference" with the likes of UCF and West Virginia and Houston and Cincinnati and Baylor. If you're UTah, you have every reason in the world to fall back on old stereotypes of those schools as low-ranked big-city commuter schools, cow colleges, bible-thumpers and everything else negative that you could ever say about them.

For Utah, the academic elitism is a strategic imperative.

I'd feel alot better about the future of the PAC if it wasn't, as has been stated above, Utah, Colorado, or Arizona State leading the charge to keep the conference together, but instead it was Oregon and Washington. That's where the problem lies.