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Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
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Todor Online
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Post: #21
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-07-2023 07:03 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 05:49 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  The University of the District of Columbia (UDC) is a Morrill Act school despite not even being around in 1862 (it was founded in 1976) and having no agricultural programs.

And no agriculture (that I am aware of) in the District of Columbia.

UDC has a College of Agriculture.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2023 02:19 PM by Todor.)
04-07-2023 02:14 PM
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bryanw1995 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-07-2023 11:10 AM)e-parade Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 05:39 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 02:26 PM)e-parade Wrote:  I was confused by the map at first when I saw the northeast, because I've always seen UVM as being founded in 1791. Turns out it was a private college (known as the University of Vermont) founded in 1791, that then later merged with a land grant institution, Vermont Agricultural, and became the university we know today. It is very confusingly described as a "quasi-public land-grant research university."

Are there any other weird ones like that? I know Cornell and MIT are both land grants from the original batch as well.

UMass is listed, but not MIT.

Penn St is a weird hybrid public/private, though I don't know the details.

Weird that MIT isn't on there. They're definitely on the list as a Land Grant and are even referenced in the wikipedia page in the first post, and it's part of the description on MITs page directly as well.

Hmmmm. Perhaps the map is just missing MIT. Any MIT alums feel free to jump in here.

Edit: MIT is on the list here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_la...iversities
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2023 03:05 PM by bryanw1995.)
04-07-2023 03:03 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-07-2023 02:14 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(04-07-2023 07:03 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 05:49 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  The University of the District of Columbia (UDC) is a Morrill Act school despite not even being around in 1862 (it was founded in 1976) and having no agricultural programs.

And no agriculture (that I am aware of) in the District of Columbia.

UDC has a College of Agriculture.

Is there any actual arable farmland in DC?
04-07-2023 09:43 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-06-2023 07:52 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 12:32 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  [Image: Land_Grant_Colleges_Map.svg]
....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Land-Grant_Acts

Florida State and UF are twin universities, founded by the same act of legislation in 1851.

A red dot on the map you shared suggests a 'University of Florida' launched in 1862 as a land grant. This is misleading, as by 1862 both schools (West Suwannee Seminary>FSU and East Suwannee Seminary>UF) were already holding classes. 2 or perhaps 3 schools were merged over time, though, to create today's UF. One campus was originally located in Lake City.

Florida has no 'flagships' but designates 'preeminent' research universities for funding purposes. It's an open club, metrics-based. Currently three universities hold this status: Florida State, UF, and USF.

But FSU is the tangibly oldest in the Sunshine State. The only one that existed prior/during the Civil War and a full 50 years older than the one in Alachua County. =) This fact sometimes gets very creatively glossed over.
04-07-2023 10:09 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-06-2023 07:52 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 12:32 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  [Image: Land_Grant_Colleges_Map.svg]
....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Land-Grant_Acts

Florida State and UF are twin universities, founded by the same act of legislation in 1851.

A red dot on the map you shared suggests a 'University of Florida' launched in 1862 as a land grant. This is misleading, as by 1862 both schools (West Suwannee Seminary>FSU and East Suwannee Seminary>UF) were already holding classes. 2 or perhaps 3 schools were merged over time, though, to create today's UF. One campus was originally located in Lake City.

Florida has no 'flagships' but designates 'preeminent' research universities for funding purposes. It's an open club, metrics-based. Currently three universities hold this status: Florida State, UF, and USF.

But FSU is the tangibly oldest in the Sunshine State. The only one that existed prior/during the Civil War and a full 50 years older than the one in Alachua County. =) This fact sometimes gets very creatively glossed over.
04-07-2023 10:22 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-07-2023 11:10 AM)e-parade Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 05:39 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 02:26 PM)e-parade Wrote:  I was confused by the map at first when I saw the northeast, because I've always seen UVM as being founded in 1791. Turns out it was a private college (known as the University of Vermont) founded in 1791, that then later merged with a land grant institution, Vermont Agricultural, and became the university we know today. It is very confusingly described as a "quasi-public land-grant research university."

Are there any other weird ones like that? I know Cornell and MIT are both land grants from the original batch as well.

UMass is listed, but not MIT.

Penn St is a weird hybrid public/private, though I don't know the details.

Weird that MIT isn't on there. They're definitely on the list as a Land Grant and are even referenced in the wikipedia page in the first post, and it's part of the description on MITs page directly as well.

UF didn’t exist in 1859. Neither did FAMU. So is this hogwash?
04-07-2023 10:22 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-07-2023 10:22 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(04-07-2023 11:10 AM)e-parade Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 05:39 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 02:26 PM)e-parade Wrote:  I was confused by the map at first when I saw the northeast, because I've always seen UVM as being founded in 1791. Turns out it was a private college (known as the University of Vermont) founded in 1791, that then later merged with a land grant institution, Vermont Agricultural, and became the university we know today. It is very confusingly described as a "quasi-public land-grant research university."

Are there any other weird ones like that? I know Cornell and MIT are both land grants from the original batch as well.

UMass is listed, but not MIT.

Penn St is a weird hybrid public/private, though I don't know the details.

Weird that MIT isn't on there. They're definitely on the list as a Land Grant and are even referenced in the wikipedia page in the first post, and it's part of the description on MITs page directly as well.

UF didn’t exist in 1859. Neither did FAMU. So is this hogwash?

First Morrill Act was 1862. Second Morrill Act was 1890.

The map references the year of the Morrill Act.

Quote:The second major precursor to the University of Florida was Florida Agricultural College (FAC), which was the state's first land-grant college under the Morrill Act when it was established in Lake City in 1884.

Quote:On October 3, 1887, the State Normal College for Colored Students began classes, and became a land-grant college four years later when it received $7,500 under the Second Morrill Act, and its name was changed to State Normal and Industrial College for Colored Students.
04-07-2023 11:22 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
That map needs updated.

UNC was the first of the Morrill Act but people at NC State complained about how UNC misused the money, and they wound up as a Land Grant.

M.I.T. is also a land grant from the Morrill Act. They are the same as Cornell about serving the state.

North Georgia is also a Land Grant as they are were part of Georgia system campus.

California have 0 Native American schools. The D-Q University closed down long time ago.

Minnesota have 4 NA schools that are Land Grants.

Oklahoma have 3, not 1 NA that serves Native Americans. There were four, but two closed down and Bacone took on the role to absorbed those students. Pawnee Nation is one that is not being mentioned about.

South Dakota have 3 NA schools. The fourth one must have closed down.
04-08-2023 01:24 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-07-2023 02:14 PM)Todor Wrote:  UDC has a College of Agriculture.

Apologies there, though it's less about rural issues than sustainability.

https://www.udc.edu/causes/
(This post was last modified: 04-08-2023 01:54 PM by DFW HOYA.)
04-08-2023 01:52 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-07-2023 11:22 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(04-07-2023 10:22 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(04-07-2023 11:10 AM)e-parade Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 05:39 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 02:26 PM)e-parade Wrote:  I was confused by the map at first when I saw the northeast, because I've always seen UVM as being founded in 1791. Turns out it was a private college (known as the University of Vermont) founded in 1791, that then later merged with a land grant institution, Vermont Agricultural, and became the university we know today. It is very confusingly described as a "quasi-public land-grant research university."

Are there any other weird ones like that? I know Cornell and MIT are both land grants from the original batch as well.

UMass is listed, but not MIT.

Penn St is a weird hybrid public/private, though I don't know the details.

Weird that MIT isn't on there. They're definitely on the list as a Land Grant and are even referenced in the wikipedia page in the first post, and it's part of the description on MITs page directly as well.

UF didn’t exist in 1859. Neither did FAMU. So is this hogwash?

First Morrill Act was 1862. Second Morrill Act was 1890.

The map references the year of the Morrill Act.

Quote:The second major precursor to the University of Florida was Florida Agricultural College (FAC), which was the state's first land-grant college under the Morrill Act when it was established in Lake City in 1884.

Quote:On October 3, 1887, the State Normal College for Colored Students began classes, and became a land-grant college four years later when it received $7,500 under the Second Morrill Act, and its name was changed to State Normal and Industrial College for Colored Students.

UF (1906) subsequently tied itself to those earlier schools in distant towns but there wasn’t much link. Schools like to use the earliest establishment date, often to a fault.
04-08-2023 02:07 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-07-2023 10:22 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 07:52 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 12:32 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  [Image: Land_Grant_Colleges_Map.svg]
....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Land-Grant_Acts

Florida State and UF are twin universities, founded by the same act of legislation in 1851.

A red dot on the map you shared suggests a 'University of Florida' launched in 1862 as a land grant. This is misleading, as by 1862 both schools (West Suwannee Seminary>FSU and East Suwannee Seminary>UF) were already holding classes. 2 or perhaps 3 schools were merged over time, though, to create today's UF. One campus was originally located in Lake City.

Florida has no 'flagships' but designates 'preeminent' research universities for funding purposes. It's an open club, metrics-based. Currently three universities hold this status: Florida State, UF, and USF.

But FSU is the tangibly oldest in the Sunshine State. The only one that existed prior/during the Civil War and a full 50 years older than the one in Alachua County. =) This fact sometimes gets very creatively glossed over.

Florida State was a women’s school until 1947. I don’t think that counts, but nice try. UF is the flagship to everyone except in little brother’s (in this case little sister’s) mind.
04-08-2023 03:23 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-07-2023 10:22 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 07:52 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 12:32 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  [Image: Land_Grant_Colleges_Map.svg]
....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Land-Grant_Acts

Florida State and UF are twin universities, founded by the same act of legislation in 1851.

A red dot on the map you shared suggests a 'University of Florida' launched in 1862 as a land grant. This is misleading, as by 1862 both schools (West Suwannee Seminary>FSU and East Suwannee Seminary>UF) were already holding classes. 2 or perhaps 3 schools were merged over time, though, to create today's UF. One campus was originally located in Lake City.

Florida has no 'flagships' but designates 'preeminent' research universities for funding purposes. It's an open club, metrics-based. Currently three universities hold this status: Florida State, UF, and USF.

But FSU is the tangibly oldest in the Sunshine State. The only one that existed prior/during the Civil War and a full 50 years older than the one in Alachua County. =) This fact sometimes gets very creatively glossed over.

Florida State was a women’s school until 1947. I don’t think that counts, but nice try. UF is the flagship to everyone except in little brother’s (in this case little sister’s) mind.
04-08-2023 03:24 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-06-2023 06:47 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 05:45 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Is Cincinnati the BigXII’s only pre-land grant university?

Yes. UC traces its founding to 1819 as Cincinnati College and the Medical College of Ohio. We were the second oldest state affiliated, municipally funded university in the nation until the 1970s when we joined the state university system.

Cincinnati, Miami and Ohio University all were around long before Ohio State.

The state prison was the big deal in Columbus. "Ma, I'm being admitted to Columbus", was not a good thing.
(This post was last modified: 04-08-2023 03:27 PM by jimrtex.)
04-08-2023 03:26 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-08-2023 03:24 PM)konzahawk Wrote:  
(04-07-2023 10:22 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 07:52 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 12:32 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  [Image: Land_Grant_Colleges_Map.svg]
....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Land-Grant_Acts

Florida State and UF are twin universities, founded by the same act of legislation in 1851.

A red dot on the map you shared suggests a 'University of Florida' launched in 1862 as a land grant. This is misleading, as by 1862 both schools (West Suwannee Seminary>FSU and East Suwannee Seminary>UF) were already holding classes. 2 or perhaps 3 schools were merged over time, though, to create today's UF. One campus was originally located in Lake City.

Florida has no 'flagships' but designates 'preeminent' research universities for funding purposes. It's an open club, metrics-based. Currently three universities hold this status: Florida State, UF, and USF.

But FSU is the tangibly oldest in the Sunshine State. The only one that existed prior/during the Civil War and a full 50 years older than the one in Alachua County. =) This fact sometimes gets very creatively glossed over.

Florida State was a women’s school until 1947. I don’t think that counts, but nice try. UF is the flagship to everyone except in little brother’s (in this case little sister’s) mind.

Wrong. From 1857-1905 FSU existed at the same location as all-male and coed - as a seminary, as a military institute during the war, and then as FSC. Before UF ever broke ground or held classes in hogtown (1906). You were lied to. UF got away with rewriting history for a while. Those days are gone.

As for the little sis crap…if you have a daughter, mother, wife or sister who you care about…FSCW (1905-47) was a proud era too. And continued to remain the largest school in FL during this phase of FSU’s existence too (making it big sis during this period, in all respects). The small upstart in Gainesville rapidly ramped up in the latter half of the 1900’s and finally became the impressive institution that it is today.

From a purely historical perspective, FSU has by far the more interesting early history as the lone Civil War era institution of higher learning in FL. UF has the Buckman Act and no tangible history prior to the early 20th century.

You’re welcome for the history lesson!
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2023 10:14 AM by GarnetAndBlue.)
04-08-2023 04:19 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-07-2023 10:09 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 07:52 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 12:32 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  [Image: Land_Grant_Colleges_Map.svg]
....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Land-Grant_Acts

Florida State and UF are twin universities, founded by the same act of legislation in 1851.

A red dot on the map you shared suggests a 'University of Florida' launched in 1862 as a land grant. This is misleading, as by 1862 both schools (West Suwannee Seminary>FSU and East Suwannee Seminary>UF) were already holding classes. 2 or perhaps 3 schools were merged over time, though, to create today's UF. One campus was originally located in Lake City.

Florida has no 'flagships' but designates 'preeminent' research universities for funding purposes. It's an open club, metrics-based. Currently three universities hold this status: Florida State, UF, and USF.

But FSU is the tangibly oldest in the Sunshine State. The only one that existed prior/during the Civil War and a full 50 years older than the one in Alachua County. =) This fact sometimes gets very creatively glossed over.
And FSU had a football program prior to the 1905 act that made FSU a women's school.
04-08-2023 06:24 PM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-08-2023 04:19 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(04-08-2023 03:24 PM)konzahawk Wrote:  
(04-07-2023 10:22 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 07:52 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 12:32 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  [Image: Land_Grant_Colleges_Map.svg]
....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Land-Grant_Acts

Florida State and UF are twin universities, founded by the same act of legislation in 1851.

A red dot on the map you shared suggests a 'University of Florida' launched in 1862 as a land grant. This is misleading, as by 1862 both schools (West Suwannee Seminary>FSU and East Suwannee Seminary>UF) were already holding classes. 2 or perhaps 3 schools were merged over time, though, to create today's UF. One campus was originally located in Lake City.

Florida has no 'flagships' but designates 'preeminent' research universities for funding purposes. It's an open club, metrics-based. Currently three universities hold this status: Florida State, UF, and USF.

But FSU is the tangibly oldest in the Sunshine State. The only one that existed prior/during the Civil War and a full 50 years older than the one in Alachua County. =) This fact sometimes gets very creatively glossed over.

Florida State was a women’s school until 1947. I don’t think that counts, but nice try. UF is the flagship to everyone except in little brother’s (in this case little sister’s) mind.

Wrong. From 1857-1905 FSU existed at the same location as all-male and coed - as a seminary, as a military institute during the war, and then as FSC. Before UF ever broke ground or held classes in hogtown (1906). You were lied to. UF got away with rewriting history for a while. Those days are gone.

As for the little sis crap…if you have a daughter, mother, wife or sister who you care about…FSCW (1905-47) was a proud era too. And continued to remain the largest school in FL during this phase of FSU’s existence too (making it big sis during this period, in all respects). The small upstart in Gainesville rapidly ramped up in the middle/late 1900’s and finally became the impressive institution that it is today.

From a purely historical perspective, FSU has by far the more interesting early history as the lone Civil War era institution of higher learning in FL. UF has the Buckman Act and no tangible history prior to the early 20th century.

You’re welcome for the history lesson!

Not to mention that vwhat is now FSU.is one of 3 schools whose ROTC is authorized to display a battle ribbon from combat during the Civil War. Something UF can't claim, even the former campus in Bartow.
04-08-2023 06:29 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-06-2023 02:26 PM)e-parade Wrote:  I was confused by the map at first when I saw the northeast, because I've always seen UVM as being founded in 1791. Turns out it was a private college (known as the University of Vermont) founded in 1791, that then later merged with a land grant institution, Vermont Agricultural, and became the university we know today. It is very confusingly described as a "quasi-public land-grant research university."

Are there any other weird ones like that? I know Cornell and MIT are both land grants from the original batch as well.

IIUC, the "weird hybrid deal" with Cornell is that some faculties ("colleges" in the Cornell nomenclature) are private and other faculties are public.
04-08-2023 10:59 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-08-2023 10:59 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 02:26 PM)e-parade Wrote:  I was confused by the map at first when I saw the northeast, because I've always seen UVM as being founded in 1791. Turns out it was a private college (known as the University of Vermont) founded in 1791, that then later merged with a land grant institution, Vermont Agricultural, and became the university we know today. It is very confusingly described as a "quasi-public land-grant research university."

Are there any other weird ones like that? I know Cornell and MIT are both land grants from the original batch as well.

IIUC, the "weird hybrid deal" with Cornell is that some faculties ("colleges" in the Cornell nomenclature) are private and other faculties are public.

Or in Cornell terms, private or statutory. Grew in Ithaca, so I'm familiar.
04-10-2023 08:18 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-06-2023 09:48 PM)TUowl06 Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 08:56 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 02:26 PM)e-parade Wrote:  I was confused by the map at first when I saw the northeast, because I've always seen UVM as being founded in 1791. Turns out it was a private college (known as the University of Vermont) founded in 1791, that then later merged with a land grant institution, Vermont Agricultural, and became the university we know today. It is very confusingly described as a "quasi-public land-grant research university."

Are there any other weird ones like that? I know Cornell and MIT are both land grants from the original batch as well.

There are a number that at various points have been some sort of private/public hybrid. I couldn’t name all of them. While it does persist in some instances, more schools began that way than remain that way since time has helped clarify their standing somewhat.

And some schools didn’t begin as hybrids, but some were founded on the heels of a private college closing down or the state taking over either just the campus, or sometimes a sort of merger.

Kansas State began that way in fact. It took over a small college that was sort of donated to the a state when the state decided to fund it as a state college. Many of the earlier private colleges were founded before states had well established public universities. Some were specifically to be religious in nature, but others (even those founded under the auspices of a church) simply wanted to help lead frontier towns to being more “civilized” and educated.

The later a state was established after 1862, the more likely it is that state universities there were originally founded as such. The further east you go, the more muddled the origins of many schools IMO. Many aspects of higher ed became more standardized but were fairly chaotic in the early years.

K-State: That is correct regarding the funds from the Morrill Act appropriation being used to absorb another institution, Blue Mont Central College, and then repurpose it to abide but the land-grant parameters.

Penn State evolved from the Farmer's High School of Pennsylvania. Such a name provides plenty of ammo for banter among rival alums in the region. My father is a Lehigh guy, he and other older alums of his private alma mater ilk, always referred for PSU as a "Cow College"; not for "real" engineers/industrialists. That has obviously changed....

Pitt and Temple were private institutions until the mid 20th century. Pitt was considered the "vastly" superior institution to PSU prior to the formation of the Commonwealth System in PA. Temple's strength was, and still is, its graduate/professional programs when the three banded together.

There's symmetry between Pitt and Carnegie Mellon/Temple and Penn in terms of mission relative to local/regional needs over the last 100 years.

Penn was founded as an academy, really in the 1750s, with the goal to be the nation's first secular college with the intent to teach what would be considered a liberal arts curriculum today. It obviously remains fully private, although it receives state funds for its veterinary school.

Pitt was similarly founded as a secular academy with the intent of it being a "western" version of the University of Pennsylvania (hence one of its prior names, "Western University of Pennsylvania") with an emphasis on teaching the sacred six of Scottish Universities: Natural, Civil, and Ecclesiastical History, Astronomy, Natural Philosophy, Logic, Moral Philosophy, and Chronology. It became state-related in 1966, meaning it receives non-preferred state subsidies in exchange for PA residents receiving tuition discounts, and can act as an instrumentality of the state, but retains control of its board, leadership, and assets.

As noted, Penn State was founded in 1855 as Farmer's High School, became a land grant college in 1863, and remains an agricultural school. Because of its historical land grant status, it has long been considered a public or state school for much of its history despite quasi-independent governance: it remains quite different in board make up and other statuses than other state-related institutions and its employees are eligible for state retirement programs and the state employee credit union. It is much more like a public than Pitt and Temple. However, when the state sought to increase public education, specifically urban research universities, during the post-war baby boom, it turned to existing private urban universities, Pitt and Temple, to create the state-related system as opposed to building research universities from scratch because the state only operated smallish Normal schools. Penn State, with its not-quite-like-any-others status, was still rolled into this state-related system for the purposes of annually non-preferred budgeting of these schools together.

Temple was founded in 1884 by a Baptist church as a night school for Philadelphia's working class and gained university status in 1907. Temple became state-related in 1965, a year prior to Pitt, and is currently similarly construed to Pitt in its public subsidies and independent operations. It really doesn't have much parallel history with Penn.

Carnegie Tech wasn't founded until 1900 and was intended as a vocational training school primarily for the workers and sons of Andrew Carnegie's mills, with the model intended to be the Pratt Institute. It had no liberal arts curriculum (Carnegie Tech students had to take humanities classes at Pitt) because Andrew Carnegie, who sat on the board of both schools, thought "non-practical" education was a waste of time, and he scuttled efforts to merge Pitt and Carnegie Tech in the early 20th Century. The Mellon Institute of Industrial Research was founded by the Mellon family, Pitt alumni and major Pitt benefactors, as a department of Pitt in 1913, and remained there until 1967, when it merged with Carnegie Tech to form Carnegie Mellon University. On the flip side, Carnegie Tech library sciences school moved to Pitt (now part of the School of Computing and Information Sciences). The campuses overlap and share multiple centers and programs, including the ability for students to cross-register for classes. Carnegie Mellon remains fully private.

IMO, there isn't much symmetry between Temple/Penn and Pitt/Carnegie Mellon historically.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2023 10:50 AM by CrazyPaco.)
04-10-2023 10:36 AM
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RE: Impact of the Morrill Act (1862 version only)
(04-10-2023 10:36 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 09:48 PM)TUowl06 Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 08:56 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(04-06-2023 02:26 PM)e-parade Wrote:  I was confused by the map at first when I saw the northeast, because I've always seen UVM as being founded in 1791. Turns out it was a private college (known as the University of Vermont) founded in 1791, that then later merged with a land grant institution, Vermont Agricultural, and became the university we know today. It is very confusingly described as a "quasi-public land-grant research university."

Are there any other weird ones like that? I know Cornell and MIT are both land grants from the original batch as well.

There are a number that at various points have been some sort of private/public hybrid. I couldn’t name all of them. While it does persist in some instances, more schools began that way than remain that way since time has helped clarify their standing somewhat.

And some schools didn’t begin as hybrids, but some were founded on the heels of a private college closing down or the state taking over either just the campus, or sometimes a sort of merger.

Kansas State began that way in fact. It took over a small college that was sort of donated to the a state when the state decided to fund it as a state college. Many of the earlier private colleges were founded before states had well established public universities. Some were specifically to be religious in nature, but others (even those founded under the auspices of a church) simply wanted to help lead frontier towns to being more “civilized” and educated.

The later a state was established after 1862, the more likely it is that state universities there were originally founded as such. The further east you go, the more muddled the origins of many schools IMO. Many aspects of higher ed became more standardized but were fairly chaotic in the early years.

K-State: That is correct regarding the funds from the Morrill Act appropriation being used to absorb another institution, Blue Mont Central College, and then repurpose it to abide but the land-grant parameters.

Penn State evolved from the Farmer's High School of Pennsylvania. Such a name provides plenty of ammo for banter among rival alums in the region. My father is a Lehigh guy, he and other older alums of his private alma mater ilk, always referred for PSU as a "Cow College"; not for "real" engineers/industrialists. That has obviously changed....

Pitt and Temple were private institutions until the mid 20th century. Pitt was considered the "vastly" superior institution to PSU prior to the formation of the Commonwealth System in PA. Temple's strength was, and still is, its graduate/professional programs when the three banded together.

There's symmetry between Pitt and Carnegie Mellon/Temple and Penn in terms of mission relative to local/regional needs over the last 100 years.

Penn was founded as an academy, really in the 1750s, with the goal to be the nation's first secular college with the intent to teach what would be considered a liberal arts curriculum today. It obviously remains fully private, although it receives state funds for its veterinary school.

Pitt was similarly founded as a secular academy with the intent of it being a "western" version of the University of Pennsylvania (hence one of its prior names, "Western University of Pennsylvania") with an emphasis on teaching the sacred six of Scottish Universities: Natural, Civil, and Ecclesiastical History, Astronomy, Natural Philosophy, Logic, Moral Philosophy, and Chronology. It became state-related in 1966, meaning it receives non-preferred state subsidies in exchange for PA residents receiving tuition discounts, and can act as an instrumentality of the state, but retains control of its board, leadership, and assets.

As noted, Penn State was founded in 1855 as Farmer's High School, became a land grant college in 1863, and remains an agricultural school. Because of its historical land grant status, it has long been considered a public or state school for much of its history despite quasi-independent governance: it remains quite different in board make up and other statuses than other state-related institutions and its employees are eligible for state retirement programs and the state employee credit union. It is much more like a public than Pitt and Temple. However, when the state sought to increase public education, specifically urban research universities, during the post-war baby boom, it turned to existing private urban universities, Pitt and Temple, to create the state-related system as opposed to building research universities from scratch because the state only operated smallish Normal schools. Penn State, with its not-quite-like-any-others status, was still rolled into this state-related system for the purposes of annually non-preferred budgeting of these schools together.

Temple was founded in 1884 by a Baptist church as a night school for Philadelphia's working class and gained university status in 1907. Temple became state-related in 1965, a year prior to Pitt, and is currently similarly construed to Pitt in its public subsidies and independent operations. It really doesn't have much parallel history with Penn.

Carnegie Tech wasn't founded until 1900 and was intended as a vocational training school primarily for the workers and sons of Andrew Carnegie's mills, with the model intended to be the Pratt Institute. It had no liberal arts curriculum (Carnegie Tech students had to take humanities classes at Pitt) because Andrew Carnegie, who sat on the board of both schools, thought "non-practical" education was a waste of time, and he scuttled efforts to merge Pitt and Carnegie Tech in the early 20th Century. The Mellon Institute of Industrial Research was founded by the Mellon family, Pitt alumni and major Pitt benefactors, as a department of Pitt in 1913, and remained there until 1967, when it merged with Carnegie Tech to form Carnegie Mellon University. On the flip side, Carnegie Tech library sciences school moved to Pitt (now part of the School of Computing and Information Sciences). The campuses overlap and share multiple centers and programs, including the ability for students to cross-register for classes. Carnegie Mellon remains fully private.

IMO, there isn't much symmetry between Temple/Penn and Pitt/Carnegie Mellon historically.

Boise State was founded as a private college in 1932 by the Episcopal Church. The schools was first created in 1892 as St. Margaret's School in Christ Chapel in Boise. In 1932, it became a private JC called Boise Junior College. In 1934, they ended affiliations with the church. In 1940, they moved the campus to the present site. 1965, baccalaureate degrees were introduced and became Boise College. In 1969, the state of Idaho took control of the school and became Boise State. In 1974, got granted to become a University. So, Boise State was a private school up until 1969. They are on their way to becoming like a Pittsburgh, Penn. State, Delaware, Temple, etc.
04-10-2023 01:58 PM
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