The Summit League is currently negotiating a new TV deal, which is due to be announced any day now. It will be interesting to see how good it is, as that could affect the attractiveness of the conference.

With the success of NDSU and SDSU FB, you would think that if the Summit league were to add FB it would have a meaningful affect on the quality of the deal. With select affiliates, Summit league FB is still a possibility - the commissioner was open to it only a couple months ago, and the hockey programs voted on their potential Summit merger before anything was reported about it in the press. I also wonder if NDSU is starting to realize that they don't have a pathway to the FBS, specifically due to their location. May they use WIU's departure as an opportunity to grow a pair and seriously make an effort to form a the "Snowbelt" FB conference? I think they would be able to make a hell of an Antitrust case to the NCAA if you look at the makeup of the potential FB schools and compare them to the MAC or CUSA. Pretty clear restraint of trade on the NCAA's part, IMO. Add the Montana schools, Idaho, UC Davis, maybe Cal Poly, Missouri State, UNI, and Illinois State, and you could have a legit conference. With smaller market programs, the league could leverage local/regional TV deals to at least match or exceed what the MAC and CUSA are making in media revenue, but with the benefit of no mid week FB games.

Assuming that pipe dream doesn't play out.
I think the league should target Minnesota State or Lindenwood (with FB to the Pioneer for either). Green Bay would also make a lot of sense, as they aren't as close to the Horizon schools as Milwaukee is. Milwaukee would obviously be more desirable, but it's much less likely that they would entertain the idea.

(05-12-2023 04:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  WIU and the OVC are a good fit. The Summit footprint has drifted west and they were out of their depth playing MVFC football.

I think the smart I’ve for the Summit would be to look at 1 (or all 3) of:

Minn St Mankato (fb) (hockey)
Minn-Duluth (fb) (hockey)
St. Cloud St (hockey)

From what I understand, the Gophers wouldn't allow Duluth to move up (same university system). SCSU is also broke. Mankato, however, is located perfectly between the Dakota Schools, St. Thomas, Omaha, and UMKC, and they are in close proximity to the conference basketball location in Sioux Falls. They also have a D1 ready basketball venue and a potential major booster in Glenn Taylor.

(05-12-2023 02:40 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  4 things that everyone needs to understand:

The Dakota schools don't want to touch Augi with a ten ft pole, and nobody else wants another trip to the Dakotas. The school itself isn't impressive. Can we please give the Augi talk a rest? They add nothing to the league with SDSU and USD already having such a large presence in Sioux Falls.

Pretty sure Denver views Northern Colorado similar to how the Dakota Schools view Augastana. As such, and although they would probably be a decent fit, I think UNC to the Summit is unlikely. Also, Denver isn't going to join the WAC or Big Sky or any other conference besides the WCC, Mountain West, or MVC, and I don't think anyone has reported that any of those conferences are seriously considering them right now.

The NCHC is NOT going to be absorbed by the Summit League. It was recently reported that only 2 of the 8 NCHC programs were in favor of such a move.


WIU leaving doesn't destabilize the league whatsoever - the move was really what was best for both WIU and the Summit League. WIU was the leagues least attractive school. They had the smallest fan base, smallest budget, were in the smallest city, had the worst facilities, least potential, and they were the school that was by far the most difficult to travel to as they have no nearby airport or even an interstate highway.

SDSU and NDSU are going to leave for FBS eventually. Augie has money, wants to move up and are located in the exact city the Summit League headquarters are based in. At some point the move will be made. What they add is another good sports program. The Summit don't want to stay at 9 schools in the long term because of scheduling.

(05-12-2023 04:18 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  

(05-12-2023 04:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  WIU and the OVC are a good fit. The Summit footprint has drifted west and they were out of their depth playing MVFC football.

I think the smart I’ve for the Summit would be to look at 1 (or all 3) of:

Minn St Mankato (fb) (hockey)
Minn-Duluth (fb) (hockey)
St. Cloud St (hockey)

From what I understand, the Gophers wouldn't allow Duluth to move up (same university system). SCSU is also broke. Mankato, however, is located perfectly between the Dakota Schools, St. Thomas, Omaha, and UMKC, and they are in close proximity to the conference basketball location in Sioux Falls. They also have a D1 ready basketball venue and a potential major booster in Glenn Taylor.

Do the Dakotas have enough sway to get Minn St into the MVFC?
What about getting them into the NCHC?

If they could make those two things, or at least the first, happen, I think that makes a lot of sense.

I also think that in the long run it makes sense for the Summit to absorb all or most of the NCHC so they can stop worrying about maintaining enough baseball and men’s soccer teams.

(05-12-2023 04:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-12-2023 04:18 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  

(05-12-2023 04:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  WIU and the OVC are a good fit. The Summit footprint has drifted west and they were out of their depth playing MVFC football.

I think the smart I’ve for the Summit would be to look at 1 (or all 3) of:

Minn St Mankato (fb) (hockey)
Minn-Duluth (fb) (hockey)
St. Cloud St (hockey)

From what I understand, the Gophers wouldn't allow Duluth to move up (same university system). SCSU is also broke. Mankato, however, is located perfectly between the Dakota Schools, St. Thomas, Omaha, and UMKC, and they are in close proximity to the conference basketball location in Sioux Falls. They also have a D1 ready basketball venue and a potential major booster in Glenn Taylor.

Do the Dakotas have enough sway to get Minn St into the MVFC?

All the Dakotas need to do is call the MVFC's bluff: "Reject Minnesota St, and we'll take St Thomas and Minnesota St and form Summit football"

I don't think UST's endgame is Pioneer football (a local article when they're news of moving up broke mentioned they wanted to add scholarship football by the late 2020s - but the part was mysteriously deleted a few hours later).

That puts the OVC at eleven members. They will have seven that sponsor football, although Lindenwood is transitioning through the 2025-26 school year. Not to mention the four refugees from the Big South. They will have five full members for men’s soccer plus four affiliates.

Lindenwood are not leaving for the Summit still in their transition period. Maybe in the future but can't see it happening right now. The Missouri school the Summit really want is NW Missouri State but they seem happy in D2 at the moment.

If Mankato could move to the non-scholly Pioneer football league, that could help them to finance their move to D1. Would be the ideal situation, especially because their football stadium is completely aged out and needs to be replaced. They would also get to play at St. Thomas in the Twin Cities, and Drake is also nearby. Beats what SCSU and Omaha did, cutting their FB programs. Mankato seems to have a pretty strong FB tradition.

(05-12-2023 04:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(05-12-2023 04:18 PM)nodak651 Wrote:  

(05-12-2023 04:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  WIU and the OVC are a good fit. The Summit footprint has drifted west and they were out of their depth playing MVFC football.

I think the smart I’ve for the Summit would be to look at 1 (or all 3) of:

Minn St Mankato (fb) (hockey)
Minn-Duluth (fb) (hockey)
St. Cloud St (hockey)

From what I understand, the Gophers wouldn't allow Duluth to move up (same university system). SCSU is also broke. Mankato, however, is located perfectly between the Dakota Schools, St. Thomas, Omaha, and UMKC, and they are in close proximity to the conference basketball location in Sioux Falls. They also have a D1 ready basketball venue and a potential major booster in Glenn Taylor.

Do the Dakotas have enough sway to get Minn St into the MVFC?
What about getting them into the NCHC?

If they could make those two things, or at least the first, happen, I think that makes a lot of sense.

I also think that in the long run it makes sense for the Summit to absorb all or most of the NCHC so they can stop worrying about maintaining enough baseball and men’s soccer teams.

The problem is the Summit League doesn't even have a full consensus of the Summit members in the NCHC.

From Schlossman:
"Although a couple of NCHC teams backed the idea of moving under the Summit's umbrella, others balked and it does not appear there's a large enough consensus to make such a move at this time.

A major concern is that hockey will be an afterthought in Summit League, where the majority of full members don't sponsor the sport. That could especially be the case if Fenton ever leaves for another job."

Lot of talk here about the Summit. Little about the OVC.

OVC was "left for dead" by some on this board (who conveniently forget or admit).

Posters who said they would even survive--said it would be as a non-FB league.

Others said Tenn. Tech and Tenn. St. would go to the ASUN--"done deal"

The OVC (New Madrid Fault Conference) has stabilized. The only outlier is Morehead St.

FB has seven teams plus associate members-- Men's soccer has a large membership.

EIU, SIUE, and Lindenwood now have easy conference trips to WIU. WIU has a rival in league, better travel, and more competitive FB.
And as already mentioned the Summit has tighter geography and the MVFC boots a weak member.

Sounds like a win-win-win.

With the OVC getting the most positives.

(05-12-2023 05:42 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Lot of talk here about the Summit. Little about the OVC.

OVC was "left for dead" by some on this board (who conveniently forget or admit).

Posters who said they would even survive--said it would be as a non-FB league.

Others said Tenn. Tech and Tenn. St. would go to the ASUN--"done deal"

The OVC (New Madrid Fault Conference) has stabilized. The only outlier is Morehead St.

FB has seven teams plus associate members-- Men's soccer has a large membership.

EIU, SIUE, and Lindenwood now have easy conference trips to WIU. WIU has a rival in league, better travel, and more competitive FB.
And as already mentioned the Summit has tighter geography and the MVFC boots a weak member.

Sounds like a win-win-win.

With OVC getting the most positives.

You're not wrong. ASUN hype machine was in overdrive, everybody was going to the ASUN. A lot of schools did. But not all of them, and not enough to launch ASUN football or to sink OVC football. (I know that Ted Gumbart said he didn't want to kill an existing FCS conference, but he said a lot of things)

(05-12-2023 01:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  A very rare instance of a school willingly choosing a worse football conference. That being said, the OVC makes more sense for WIU with fellow in-state schools EIU and SIUE along with schools in Missouri, Indiana, Kentucky and Tennessee.

This is effectively the opposite of what Missouri State is contemplating (where they would have to downgrade their basketball/non-football conference if they want to upgrade football to FBS).

It would only be a downgrade for Missouri State in M basketball but they haven't made the tourney since the 1990's. It a net even or slight bump on women's basketball and a monumental leap up in Baseball, Softball, and Football. As a whole, they would be in a much better and more stable athletic conference.

Let's not panic. While a conference move effective immediately is normally a shock, the only surprise is that WIU took this long to do it. Summit fans have been expecting this for years. Our new commissioner seems good, I have no doubt there's been high level discussions about what to do. Augustana is probably on the list but definitely very low. Summit has some work to do but we're far from disaster.

(05-12-2023 05:55 PM)Shox Wrote:  It would only be a downgrade for Missouri State in M basketball but they haven't made the tourney since the 1990's. It a net even or slight bump on women's basketball and a monumental leap up in Baseball, Softball, and Football. As a whole, they would be in a much better and more stable athletic conference.

Stability is important

(05-12-2023 03:40 PM)mvfcfan Wrote:  Bryant which is in Rhode Island needs to try to make amends with the NEC. No reason for them to be in OVC / Big South football at this point.

It's obviously not ideal for their football team, but I think that ship has sailed. But at the end of the day, you're only looking at 4 plane flights a year for the football team, which isn't that big of a budget item.

(05-12-2023 05:42 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Lot of talk here about the Summit. Little about the OVC.

OVC was "left for dead" by some on this board (who conveniently forget or admit).

Posters who said they would even survive--said it would be as a non-FB league.

Others said Tenn. Tech and Tenn. St. would go to the ASUN--"done deal"

The OVC (New Madrid Fault Conference) has stabilized. The only outlier is Morehead St.

FB has seven teams plus associate members-- Men's soccer has a large membership.

EIU, SIUE, and Lindenwood now have easy conference trips to WIU. WIU has a rival in league, better travel, and more competitive FB.
And as already mentioned the Summit has tighter geography and the MVFC boots a weak member.

Sounds like a win-win-win.

With the OVC getting the most positives.

Yup - many on here left the OVC for dead

(05-12-2023 05:55 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(05-12-2023 01:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  A very rare instance of a school willingly choosing a worse football conference. That being said, the OVC makes more sense for WIU with fellow in-state schools EIU and SIUE along with schools in Missouri, Indiana, Kentucky and Tennessee.

This is effectively the opposite of what Missouri State is contemplating (where they would have to downgrade their basketball/non-football conference if they want to upgrade football to FBS).

It would only be a downgrade for Missouri State in M basketball but they haven't made the tourney since the 1990's. It a net even or slight bump on women's basketball and a monumental leap up in Baseball, Softball, and Football. As a whole, they would be in a much better and more stable athletic conference.

This isn’t true.

MVC WBB was 13th, 10th, & 7th in NET the past 3 years.

SBC WBB was 18th, 20th, & 21st in NET the past 3 years.

(05-12-2023 06:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(05-12-2023 05:42 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Lot of talk here about the Summit. Little about the OVC.

OVC was "left for dead" by some on this board (who conveniently forget or admit).

Posters who said they would even survive--said it would be as a non-FB league.

Others said Tenn. Tech and Tenn. St. would go to the ASUN--"done deal"

The OVC (New Madrid Fault Conference) has stabilized. The only outlier is Morehead St.

FB has seven teams plus associate members-- Men's soccer has a large membership.

EIU, SIUE, and Lindenwood now have easy conference trips to WIU. WIU has a rival in league, better travel, and more competitive FB.
And as already mentioned the Summit has tighter geography and the MVFC boots a weak member.

Sounds like a win-win-win.

With the OVC getting the most positives.

Yup - many on here left the OVC for dead

I didn't think the OVC would die -- no NCAA BB tournament qualifying D1 conference has died since the SWC -- though I did at one point think they were dropping football. Particularly when they added Little Rock.

(05-12-2023 05:50 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(05-12-2023 05:42 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Lot of talk here about the Summit. Little about the OVC.

OVC was "left for dead" by some on this board (who conveniently forget or admit).

Posters who said they would even survive--said it would be as a non-FB league.

Others said Tenn. Tech and Tenn. St. would go to the ASUN--"done deal"

The OVC (New Madrid Fault Conference) has stabilized. The only outlier is Morehead St.

FB has seven teams plus associate members-- Men's soccer has a large membership.

EIU, SIUE, and Lindenwood now have easy conference trips to WIU. WIU has a rival in league, better travel, and more competitive FB.
And as already mentioned the Summit has tighter geography and the MVFC boots a weak member.

Sounds like a win-win-win.

With OVC getting the most positives.

You're not wrong. ASUN hype machine was in overdrive, everybody was going to the ASUN. A lot of schools did. But not all of them, and not enough to launch ASUN football or to sink OVC football. (I know that Ted Gumbart said he didn't want to kill an existing FCS conference, but he said a lot of things)

There were some North Alabama posters who were very confident on the ASUN poaching more schools. I’ll admit I was gullible and fell for it.

(05-12-2023 06:01 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(05-12-2023 03:40 PM)mvfcfan Wrote:  Bryant which is in Rhode Island needs to try to make amends with the NEC. No reason for them to be in OVC / Big South football at this point.

It's obviously not ideal for their football team, but I think that ship has sailed. But at the end of the day, you're only looking at 4 plane flights a year for the football team, which isn't that big of a budget item.

Im a RI native and the state isnt big enough for 4 D1 schools. Bryant has a small fanbase and their fans dont seem to care about sports that much let alone care what conference they play in. Their football stadium is small and hasnt been expanded since the move to D1. They are building a new basketball arena though but they still feel like a D2 school. Their situation is totally different than a larger southern public football focused D2 school looking to move to D1. I guess Im saying that if Bryant dropped football there wouldnt be some public outcry other than from the ex players. Cant compare a Bryant to a North Alabama where it makes more sense that they moved up to D1 since its a football focused school.