(07-22-2023 10:05 PM)seurat92 Wrote: (07-20-2023 02:04 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote: (07-19-2023 08:17 PM)TripleA Wrote: SLH, do you have any desire for Navy to compete Oly sports in the AAC, or remain in the Patriot?
I seem to recall you preferring the Patriot some time ago. Any change?
I would still say that football in the American and 21 other sports in the Patriot (and 14 other varsity intercollegiate sports in their niche leagues, e.g. the Great American Rifle Conference along with Memphis) is the ideal solution for Navy.
I feel that it is a good match in football for our national program and profile. The institutional fits in the Patriot League, though, are far better overall. Our institutional fits in the AAC are the minority bloc of small privates - SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, now Rice - and we get that but all drivable for 21 sports in the Patriot.
I took a look at the sports offered, and MLax being homeless would be a big deal for us.
We play Army in 23 sports, and 19 of those are in the Patriot League.
While Navy has won nine consecutive Patriot League President's Cups, we would probably not measure up well in several sports in the American - MBB and WBB definitely, T&F, and others. The inherent recruiting, NIL, etc disadvantages in football are made up in scheme/system and raw numbers. MBB would find us dropping, maybe to UTSA mbb levels. David Robinson isn't walking through that door. We'll see in November how we measure up against Temple, who aren't even at the top of the AAC.
Out of conference matchups like those can be good (or like our FCS opponent is often from the Patriot League): baseball maybe? WLAX? Tennis or golf, especially invitational type events?
That's my view, but I don't think the institution is pushing for all sports to the AAC.
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Good post and you make some great points but I gotta tell ya.....
In FB...Army, and independence, really works well for them. They are a nationally desired opponent. They can virtually pick their choice of opponents because everyone wants to play Army/Navy/AFA... Big press, big television, own network and the whole country roots for ya.
I say this ONLY for Navy..................The AAC is holding you down.
It's not bad but, Army trumps you with it's schedule because they can pick who they want to play and everyone wants to play them. Everyone wants to play one of the Academies. I think Navy has even more clout than Army and could have a great schedule and most of all...wouldn't be fettered by a conf.
Same thing with AFA.
I apologize to all for continuing the derailment of a basketball news thread.
I wouldn't trade Navy's AAC football membership for Army's independence looking at our last eight years, at the landscape in 2023, and definitely not moving forward to the expanded playoff.
You have to look back at Navy's drivers for giving up our independence to join the Big East in 2012. Here's the teleconference after we signed on:
https://navysports.com/news/2012/2/7/Tra...ng_in_2015
Quote:VADM Miller, USNA Superintendent:
While our Independent status has served Navy football well to date, BIG EAST Conference affiliation will help ensure our future scholar-athletes and athletic programs remain competitive at the highest levels for the foreseeable future. I think we all recognize the landscape for Division I FBS football is changing and the separation between BCS and non-BCS schools is growing ever wider. We look at scheduling, television and bowl opportunities and we see a great opportunity to be shared with the BIG EAST.
Quote:Navy AD Chet Gladchuk:
Opportunities to exist as an Independent into the future are clearly in jeopardy. When you look at scheduling and the conditions being imposed on institutions into the future regarding conference scheduling versus scheduling as an Independent, bowl associations, television opportunities and external opportunities to generate resources, these challenges are going to be managed much more effectively through conference membership.
...The objective was to protect the relevance of Navy football as a program of continued national stature. As we looked at each of the components, starting first with scheduling, these future dynamics are clearly moving towards conference affiliation. Television influence is so significant in the conferences today, and into the future, that in the months of October and November, television is dictating that conference games must be played. As we looked into the future, certainly past 2015, we could envision television would preclude member institutions from making a scheduling commitment to Navy...
The limited opportunities that will present themselves in the future for Independents with regards to postseason bowls was another discussion we had.
Quote:Navy Football Head Coach 2007-2022 Ken Niumatalolo:
As the college football landscape has changed I've been thinking. This has kept me up many a night. What's going to happen to us? Being a program on the outside looking in. I don't think anybody can talk about what's actually going to happen. All of us are maybe speculating on the future of college football and what's going to happen, but the one thing I was concerned about was thinking about the have's and have not's and I thought that drift was going to get wider and wider and there is some great concern on that part.
And in response to a separate question:
But my analogy is in college sports there is a storm getting ready to come, a hurricane getting ready to come, and those that are in homes don't really worry about it. But it's the people that are on the outside looking in that need to find a place of refuge and that's why we discussed it and why I was right onboard with Chet. It's been great for us being an Independent, but with the landscape of college football changing, that's changed.
All of those things still apply. AAC membership aligns better with Navy's strategic goals than independence. That's becoming MORE true with the expanded CFP.
In the 4-team CFP, Navy got almost ten times more $$ from CFP than independent Army. Multiple years, Navy has been in CFP/NY6 conversation Thanksgiving weekend and after. Heck, last year, when we went 4-8 and fired our winningest coach ever Navy impacted the NY6 picture beating then-ranked UCF in November. On that same day, Army hosted their independent buddy UConn before traveling to independent buddy UMass for Thanksgiving.
Looking at Army's future schedules, other than a paycheck visit to LSU, the biggest names are hosting Syracuse and Wake Forest. Visits to them, Kansas State, BC...meh. We pick those up in our AAC bowl games (wins over Pitt, Virginia, and Kansas State).
Yeah, visits to LSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Oklahoma are pretty cool. I do miss having those on the Navy schedule (closing out independence, we visited Penn State for a one-and-done game). Oklahoma's scheduled return to Michie would have been very cool, a real feather in the cap. And I miss the chances for say, our 2009/2014 home-and-home with Ohio State. But I don't see a lot of those on the Army schedule.
Meanwhile we have hosted multiple top ten teams...as conference opponents. And we'll always have Notre Dame
In fact as Army resumed winning, they may start feeling what Navy did after the Paul Johnson resurgence -- scheduling autonomy conference schools gets harder. Tennessee cancelled on them, replacing them with Akron. They just weren't winning back when we made the decision to join the Big East and are only now feeling it.
That Tennessee cancellation on short notice gave them an excuse for ONE year with two FCS opponents, but Army has had two FCS more often than they have had one for the last decade. No thanks.
Also, one of Army's talking points is a national schedule (same as we did as an independent). But lay our schedules on a map and that isn't an Army win. AAC gives us the national footprint we want for recruiting and our national fanbase. That plus moving ND games and bowls, we're better off.
Bowls? I'll take our AAC opportunities over alternating Shreveport/pool years. We were great with bowls from 2003-2016 deals, but we would likely be looking at a situation like Army's as an independent. No thanks.
Relevance in the CFP era and bowls - clearly advantage AAC.
TV exposure and money is advantage AAC (though Army-Navy still trumps that for us).
Scheduling -- I do miss our schedule flexibility. I just looked at schedules/results rolling back from 2014 and got nearly nostalgic. But I think you're overselling what Army has. Two FCS per year, some middle of the pack autonomy conference schools, yes the occasional big name?
Army clearly still thinks that independence is the best path for them. But independence is not a growth industry as we move into the expanded CFP era.
The AAC is definitely better for Navy and our strategic goals than independence.
Mods maybe split these couple posts off?
Back to the basketball news!
