(06-09-2023 08:22 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 07:38 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Bernie is a pathetic shill who did what he was told, as usual. As they all do.

Hate to have to agree, but I do. In the end he just was a sheepdog to get the disaffected parts of the left back in line, and it basically worked. If he truly believed the things he ran on in 2016 and the way the DNC openly screwed him the course of action was to break away and run 3rd party. Instead he campaigned harder for Killary than she campaigned for herself and still shouldered a bunch of blame for her loss. I hate having to say this, but Bernie either is a complete shill or a complete cuck.

You are by far the best left leaning poster on this board. Thank you.

(06-09-2023 08:28 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:22 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 07:38 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Bernie is a pathetic shill who did what he was told, as usual. As they all do.

Hate to have to agree, but I do. In the end he just was a sheepdog to get the disaffected parts of the left back in line, and it basically worked. If he truly believed the things he ran on in 2016 and the way the DNC openly screwed him the course of action was to break away and run 3rd party. Instead he campaigned harder for Killary than she campaigned for herself and still shouldered a bunch of blame for her loss. I hate having to say this, but Bernie either is a complete shill or a complete cuck.

You are by far the best left leaning poster on this board. Thank you.

I'm always going to have some level of fond feelings for Bernie for snapping me out of the learned helplessness the Dem party wants me to feel. Their goal for the left is to try to say "hey we want all the things you want, but those awful republicans won't let us do them." He showed no they don't actually support universal healthcare, they don't actually support getting money out of politics, no they don't actually support unions, and yes they are corrupt and completely beholden to corporate interests. All of that was true, but then after they openly rigged 2 primaries against him his response to everyone who fought for him was to say "hey just ignore that whole rigging the primaries thing and vote for the party I have said is corrupt and selling you out because the other guy is worse." If the GOP establishment had the power to do to Trump in 2016 what Obama and the DNC were able to pull against Bernie Trump would have had the guts to call them out to their faces, not endorse the primary winner, and likely would have run 3rd party.

(06-09-2023 07:43 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 07:34 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 07:33 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-08-2023 05:54 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  So are there any lefties in this forum that want to investigate this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. Please seriously investigate this. If it's true he should be impeached and indicted. I can't comment on how credible that source is, but that should be figured out because that's an extremely serious allegation.

If you really feel that way you are the 1% of your ilk.

Add me to that group. I'm fine with this being investigated.

I'm perfectly ok with investigating anyone who breaks the laws, whether that's Biden, Clinton, or Bernie or AOC or anyone.

The problem is, the right seems to take unproven accusations against anyone they consider their rival as carte blanche to break the law with impunity.

How many times have you heard, "Obama's birth certificate" or "but her emails?", or "Hunter Biden's laptop?", or any other whatabout, used to deflect attention away from their side?

(06-09-2023 08:45 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:28 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:22 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 07:38 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Bernie is a pathetic shill who did what he was told, as usual. As they all do.

Hate to have to agree, but I do. In the end he just was a sheepdog to get the disaffected parts of the left back in line, and it basically worked. If he truly believed the things he ran on in 2016 and the way the DNC openly screwed him the course of action was to break away and run 3rd party. Instead he campaigned harder for Killary than she campaigned for herself and still shouldered a bunch of blame for her loss. I hate having to say this, but Bernie either is a complete shill or a complete cuck.

You are by far the best left leaning poster on this board. Thank you.

I'm always going to have some level of fond feelings for Bernie for snapping me out of the learned helplessness the Dem party wants me to feel. Their goal for the left is to try to say "hey we want all the things you want, but those awful republicans won't let us do them." He showed no they don't actually support universal healthcare, they don't actually support getting money out of politics, no they don't actually support unions, and yes they are corrupt and completely beholden to corporate interests. All of that was true, but then after they openly rigged 2 primaries against him his response to everyone who fought for him was to say "hey just ignore that whole rigging the primaries thing and vote for the party I have said is corrupt and selling you out because the other guy is worse." If the GOP establishment had the power to do to Trump in 2016 what Obama and the DNC were able to pull against Bernie Trump would have had the guts to call them out to their faces, not endorse the primary winner, and likely would have run 3rd party.

Careful you don't come over to the dark side.

(06-09-2023 08:45 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:28 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:22 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 07:38 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Bernie is a pathetic shill who did what he was told, as usual. As they all do.

Hate to have to agree, but I do. In the end he just was a sheepdog to get the disaffected parts of the left back in line, and it basically worked. If he truly believed the things he ran on in 2016 and the way the DNC openly screwed him the course of action was to break away and run 3rd party. Instead he campaigned harder for Killary than she campaigned for herself and still shouldered a bunch of blame for her loss. I hate having to say this, but Bernie either is a complete shill or a complete cuck.

You are by far the best left leaning poster on this board. Thank you.

I'm always going to have some level of fond feelings for Bernie for snapping me out of the learned helplessness the Dem party wants me to feel. Their goal for the left is to try to say "hey we want all the things you want, but those awful republicans won't let us do them." He showed no they don't actually support universal healthcare, they don't actually support getting money out of politics, no they don't actually support unions, and yes they are corrupt and completely beholden to corporate interests. All of that was true, but then after they openly rigged 2 primaries against him his response to everyone who fought for him was to say "hey just ignore that whole rigging the primaries thing and vote for the party I have said is corrupt and selling you out because the other guy is worse." If the GOP establishment had the power to do to Trump in 2016 what Obama and the DNC were able to pull against Bernie Trump would have had the guts to call them out to their faces, not endorse the primary winner, and likely would have run 3rd party.

God what a shitshow, I remember that and I was just as pissed when they did the same thing in 2020.

This is why I say that the democrat party is a big tent party, taking in everyone disgusted by the right, but that doesn't mean the democratic party represents everyone on the left, and it's rather frustrating.

This problem won't be resolved until there is enough political motivation to break up the parties, and reform campaign finance laws to mitigate the effects of money in politics.

(06-09-2023 08:46 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:45 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:28 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:22 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 07:38 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Bernie is a pathetic shill who did what he was told, as usual. As they all do.

Hate to have to agree, but I do. In the end he just was a sheepdog to get the disaffected parts of the left back in line, and it basically worked. If he truly believed the things he ran on in 2016 and the way the DNC openly screwed him the course of action was to break away and run 3rd party. Instead he campaigned harder for Killary than she campaigned for herself and still shouldered a bunch of blame for her loss. I hate having to say this, but Bernie either is a complete shill or a complete cuck.

You are by far the best left leaning poster on this board. Thank you.

I'm always going to have some level of fond feelings for Bernie for snapping me out of the learned helplessness the Dem party wants me to feel. Their goal for the left is to try to say "hey we want all the things you want, but those awful republicans won't let us do them." He showed no they don't actually support universal healthcare, they don't actually support getting money out of politics, no they don't actually support unions, and yes they are corrupt and completely beholden to corporate interests. All of that was true, but then after they openly rigged 2 primaries against him his response to everyone who fought for him was to say "hey just ignore that whole rigging the primaries thing and vote for the party I have said is corrupt and selling you out because the other guy is worse." If the GOP establishment had the power to do to Trump in 2016 what Obama and the DNC were able to pull against Bernie Trump would have had the guts to call them out to their faces, not endorse the primary winner, and likely would have run 3rd party.

Careful you don't come over to the dark side.

I don't think "the dark side" is ever going to support any universal healthcare system, be pro union, be pro getting money out of politics, be pro strict anti-trust enforcement, and be at least tolerable to me on social issues. On pretty much every issue that is important to me Bernie is correct that the Dems are on paper closer to my position. In reality though they are the far bigger enemy to getting the things I want than the GOP. It's way easier to fight against open opponents of your positions than fake friends of your positions. I'm sure those of you on the right feel the same way about "RINOs."

(06-09-2023 08:50 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:45 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:28 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:22 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 07:38 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Bernie is a pathetic shill who did what he was told, as usual. As they all do.

Hate to have to agree, but I do. In the end he just was a sheepdog to get the disaffected parts of the left back in line, and it basically worked. If he truly believed the things he ran on in 2016 and the way the DNC openly screwed him the course of action was to break away and run 3rd party. Instead he campaigned harder for Killary than she campaigned for herself and still shouldered a bunch of blame for her loss. I hate having to say this, but Bernie either is a complete shill or a complete cuck.

You are by far the best left leaning poster on this board. Thank you.

I'm always going to have some level of fond feelings for Bernie for snapping me out of the learned helplessness the Dem party wants me to feel. Their goal for the left is to try to say "hey we want all the things you want, but those awful republicans won't let us do them." He showed no they don't actually support universal healthcare, they don't actually support getting money out of politics, no they don't actually support unions, and yes they are corrupt and completely beholden to corporate interests. All of that was true, but then after they openly rigged 2 primaries against him his response to everyone who fought for him was to say "hey just ignore that whole rigging the primaries thing and vote for the party I have said is corrupt and selling you out because the other guy is worse." If the GOP establishment had the power to do to Trump in 2016 what Obama and the DNC were able to pull against Bernie Trump would have had the guts to call them out to their faces, not endorse the primary winner, and likely would have run 3rd party.

God what a shitshow, I remember that and I was just as pissed when they did the same thing in 2020.

This is why I say that the democrat party is a big tent party, taking in everyone disgusted by the right, but that doesn't mean the democratic party represents everyone on the left, and it's rather frustrating.

This problem won't be resolved until there is enough political motivation to break up the parties, and reform campaign finance laws to mitigate the effects of money in politics.

Here's something most liberals don't understand. The current GOP electorate despises the old guard, country club style Republican Party. Obviously they want to protect their own interests instead of helping ordinary people (Dems and R's).

Trump came in through 2016 and totally wrecked the internals of the GOP and showed you don't have to be an establishment shill to win the Presidency. They (Paul Ryan, Romney, Christie, etc) would rather lose purposefully and blame Trump for everything instead of looking inward and doing what's best for the voters.

Hope this helps shed some light on why many here will back Trump, even for all of his faults, because the establishment GOP hasn't earned any support. There are many parallels will how the Dems treated Bernie in 2016, except he cucked himself like Bonds alluded to earlier instead of fighting to remake the party.

(06-09-2023 09:00 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  Here's something most liberals don't understand. The current GOP electorate despises the old guard, country club style Republican Party. Obviously they want to protect their own interests instead of helping ordinary people (Dems and R's).

Trump came in through 2016 and totally wrecked the internals of the GOP and showed you don't have to be an establishment shill to win the Presidency. They (Paul Ryan, Romney, Christie, etc) would rather lose purposefully and blame Trump for everything instead of looking inward and doing what's best for the voters.

Hope this helps shed some light on why many here will back Trump, even for all of his faults, because the establishment GOP hasn't earned any support. There are many parallels will how the Dems treated Bernie in 2016, except he cucked himself like Bonds alluded to earlier instead of fighting to remake the party.

Exactly right

(06-09-2023 09:00 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:50 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:45 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:28 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:22 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Hate to have to agree, but I do. In the end he just was a sheepdog to get the disaffected parts of the left back in line, and it basically worked. If he truly believed the things he ran on in 2016 and the way the DNC openly screwed him the course of action was to break away and run 3rd party. Instead he campaigned harder for Killary than she campaigned for herself and still shouldered a bunch of blame for her loss. I hate having to say this, but Bernie either is a complete shill or a complete cuck.

You are by far the best left leaning poster on this board. Thank you.

I'm always going to have some level of fond feelings for Bernie for snapping me out of the learned helplessness the Dem party wants me to feel. Their goal for the left is to try to say "hey we want all the things you want, but those awful republicans won't let us do them." He showed no they don't actually support universal healthcare, they don't actually support getting money out of politics, no they don't actually support unions, and yes they are corrupt and completely beholden to corporate interests. All of that was true, but then after they openly rigged 2 primaries against him his response to everyone who fought for him was to say "hey just ignore that whole rigging the primaries thing and vote for the party I have said is corrupt and selling you out because the other guy is worse." If the GOP establishment had the power to do to Trump in 2016 what Obama and the DNC were able to pull against Bernie Trump would have had the guts to call them out to their faces, not endorse the primary winner, and likely would have run 3rd party.

God what a shitshow, I remember that and I was just as pissed when they did the same thing in 2020.

This is why I say that the democrat party is a big tent party, taking in everyone disgusted by the right, but that doesn't mean the democratic party represents everyone on the left, and it's rather frustrating.

This problem won't be resolved until there is enough political motivation to break up the parties, and reform campaign finance laws to mitigate the effects of money in politics.

Here's something most liberals don't understand. The current GOP electorate despises the old guard, country club style Republican Party. Obviously they want to protect their own interests instead of helping ordinary people (Dems and R's).

Trump came in through 2016 and totally wrecked the internals of the GOP and showed you don't have to be an establishment shill to win the Presidency. They (Paul Ryan, Romney, Christie, etc) would rather lose purposefully and blame Trump for everything instead of looking inward and doing what's best for the voters.

Hope this helps shed some light on why many here will back Trump, even for all of his faults, because the establishment GOP hasn't earned any support. There are many parallels will how the Dems treated Bernie in 2016, except he cucked himself like Bonds alluded to earlier instead of fighting to remake the party.

I think it's apparent what the appeal of Donald Trump was, and back in 2016 there for sure was a venn diagram overlap between people who voted Bernie Sanders and people who voted Trump: anti-establishment candidates that would shake up a system that doesn't work for the majority of people in the country.

But that's where the similarities end. Trump, from my perspective, only took on the anti-establishment stance because it benefitted him and developed his base.

(06-09-2023 09:00 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:50 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:45 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:28 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:22 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Hate to have to agree, but I do. In the end he just was a sheepdog to get the disaffected parts of the left back in line, and it basically worked. If he truly believed the things he ran on in 2016 and the way the DNC openly screwed him the course of action was to break away and run 3rd party. Instead he campaigned harder for Killary than she campaigned for herself and still shouldered a bunch of blame for her loss. I hate having to say this, but Bernie either is a complete shill or a complete cuck.

You are by far the best left leaning poster on this board. Thank you.

I'm always going to have some level of fond feelings for Bernie for snapping me out of the learned helplessness the Dem party wants me to feel. Their goal for the left is to try to say "hey we want all the things you want, but those awful republicans won't let us do them." He showed no they don't actually support universal healthcare, they don't actually support getting money out of politics, no they don't actually support unions, and yes they are corrupt and completely beholden to corporate interests. All of that was true, but then after they openly rigged 2 primaries against him his response to everyone who fought for him was to say "hey just ignore that whole rigging the primaries thing and vote for the party I have said is corrupt and selling you out because the other guy is worse." If the GOP establishment had the power to do to Trump in 2016 what Obama and the DNC were able to pull against Bernie Trump would have had the guts to call them out to their faces, not endorse the primary winner, and likely would have run 3rd party.

God what a shitshow, I remember that and I was just as pissed when they did the same thing in 2020.

This is why I say that the democrat party is a big tent party, taking in everyone disgusted by the right, but that doesn't mean the democratic party represents everyone on the left, and it's rather frustrating.

This problem won't be resolved until there is enough political motivation to break up the parties, and reform campaign finance laws to mitigate the effects of money in politics.

Here's something most liberals don't understand. The current GOP electorate despises the old guard, country club style Republican Party. Obviously they want to protect their own interests instead of helping ordinary people (Dems and R's).

Trump came in through 2016 and totally wrecked the internals of the GOP and showed you don't have to be an establishment shill to win the Presidency. They (Paul Ryan, Romney, Christie, etc) would rather lose purposefully and blame Trump for everything instead of looking inward and doing what's best for the voters.

Hope this helps shed some light on why many here will back Trump, even for all of his faults, because the establishment GOP hasn't earned any support. There are many parallels will how the Dems treated Bernie in 2016, except he cucked himself like Bonds alluded to earlier instead of fighting to remake the party.

Don't disagree with much here. I think the big difference between the 2 parties is the GOP fears their base and the Dems don't. The GOP knows if they had openly and brazenly did stuff to Trump the way the DNC did to Bernie that their base would have revolted and it would have ended them as a party. Trump would have lead that revolt. The DNC knew that despite all of Bernie's bluster he'd fall in line, and that without him leading the charge enough of his supporters would fall in line that they could screw him without consequence. The DNC won, they didn't win over Bernie supporters in any way that they want or support the things they want, but they won in convincing them that they had no choice but to shut up and fall in line and almost all did.

(06-09-2023 09:11 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  I think it's apparent what the appeal of Donald Trump was, and back in 2016 there for sure was a venn diagram overlap between people who voted Bernie Sanders and people who voted Trump: anti-establishment candidates that would shake up a system that doesn't work for the majority of people in the country.

But that's where the similarities end. Trump, from my perspective, only took on the anti-establishment stance because it benefitted him and developed his base.

Trump held many of those positions going back to the 80s though. I don't think it's a total farce - he really believes we had bad trade deals, other countries ripping off the US (NATO), media being unfair, etc. He does have great political instincts and know how to market himself and galvanize people.

To run for POTUS or high office, you have to have a big ego or be a narcissist. Trump is not the first to be this way.

(06-09-2023 09:13 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 09:00 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:50 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:45 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:28 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  You are by far the best left leaning poster on this board. Thank you.

I'm always going to have some level of fond feelings for Bernie for snapping me out of the learned helplessness the Dem party wants me to feel. Their goal for the left is to try to say "hey we want all the things you want, but those awful republicans won't let us do them." He showed no they don't actually support universal healthcare, they don't actually support getting money out of politics, no they don't actually support unions, and yes they are corrupt and completely beholden to corporate interests. All of that was true, but then after they openly rigged 2 primaries against him his response to everyone who fought for him was to say "hey just ignore that whole rigging the primaries thing and vote for the party I have said is corrupt and selling you out because the other guy is worse." If the GOP establishment had the power to do to Trump in 2016 what Obama and the DNC were able to pull against Bernie Trump would have had the guts to call them out to their faces, not endorse the primary winner, and likely would have run 3rd party.

God what a shitshow, I remember that and I was just as pissed when they did the same thing in 2020.

This is why I say that the democrat party is a big tent party, taking in everyone disgusted by the right, but that doesn't mean the democratic party represents everyone on the left, and it's rather frustrating.

This problem won't be resolved until there is enough political motivation to break up the parties, and reform campaign finance laws to mitigate the effects of money in politics.

Here's something most liberals don't understand. The current GOP electorate despises the old guard, country club style Republican Party. Obviously they want to protect their own interests instead of helping ordinary people (Dems and R's).

Trump came in through 2016 and totally wrecked the internals of the GOP and showed you don't have to be an establishment shill to win the Presidency. They (Paul Ryan, Romney, Christie, etc) would rather lose purposefully and blame Trump for everything instead of looking inward and doing what's best for the voters.

Hope this helps shed some light on why many here will back Trump, even for all of his faults, because the establishment GOP hasn't earned any support. There are many parallels will how the Dems treated Bernie in 2016, except he cucked himself like Bonds alluded to earlier instead of fighting to remake the party.

Don't disagree with much here. I think the big difference between the 2 parties is the GOP fears their base and the Dems don't. The GOP knows if they had openly and brazenly did stuff to Trump the way the DNC did to Bernie that their base would have revolted and it would have ended them as a party. Trump would have lead that revolt. The DNC knew that despite all of Bernie's bluster he'd fall in line, and that without him leading the charge enough of his supporters would fall in line that they could screw him without consequence. The DNC won, they didn't win over Bernie supporters in any way that they want or support the things they want, but they won in convincing them that they had no choice but to shut up and fall in line and almost all did.

Yes. As I've said many times...most Repub voters think for themselves and most Dem voters just pull the blue lever, no matter what.

(06-09-2023 09:11 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 09:00 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:50 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:45 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:28 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  You are by far the best left leaning poster on this board. Thank you.

I'm always going to have some level of fond feelings for Bernie for snapping me out of the learned helplessness the Dem party wants me to feel. Their goal for the left is to try to say "hey we want all the things you want, but those awful republicans won't let us do them." He showed no they don't actually support universal healthcare, they don't actually support getting money out of politics, no they don't actually support unions, and yes they are corrupt and completely beholden to corporate interests. All of that was true, but then after they openly rigged 2 primaries against him his response to everyone who fought for him was to say "hey just ignore that whole rigging the primaries thing and vote for the party I have said is corrupt and selling you out because the other guy is worse." If the GOP establishment had the power to do to Trump in 2016 what Obama and the DNC were able to pull against Bernie Trump would have had the guts to call them out to their faces, not endorse the primary winner, and likely would have run 3rd party.

God what a shitshow, I remember that and I was just as pissed when they did the same thing in 2020.

This is why I say that the democrat party is a big tent party, taking in everyone disgusted by the right, but that doesn't mean the democratic party represents everyone on the left, and it's rather frustrating.

This problem won't be resolved until there is enough political motivation to break up the parties, and reform campaign finance laws to mitigate the effects of money in politics.

Here's something most liberals don't understand. The current GOP electorate despises the old guard, country club style Republican Party. Obviously they want to protect their own interests instead of helping ordinary people (Dems and R's).

Trump came in through 2016 and totally wrecked the internals of the GOP and showed you don't have to be an establishment shill to win the Presidency. They (Paul Ryan, Romney, Christie, etc) would rather lose purposefully and blame Trump for everything instead of looking inward and doing what's best for the voters.

Hope this helps shed some light on why many here will back Trump, even for all of his faults, because the establishment GOP hasn't earned any support. There are many parallels will how the Dems treated Bernie in 2016, except he cucked himself like Bonds alluded to earlier instead of fighting to remake the party.

I think it's apparent what the appeal of Donald Trump was, and back in 2016 there for sure was a venn diagram overlap between people who voted Bernie Sanders and people who voted Trump: anti-establishment candidates that would shake up a system that doesn't work for the majority of people in the country.

But that's where the similarities end. Trump, from my perspective, only took on the anti-establishment stance because it benefitted him and developed his base.

I hear those diagrams are Kamala's favorite.

(06-09-2023 07:33 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-08-2023 05:54 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  So are there any lefties in this forum that want to investigate this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. Please seriously investigate this. If it's true he should be impeached and indicted. I can't comment on how credible that source is, but that should be figured out because that's an extremely serious allegation.

The source is a Human Informant that the FBI has been used for 20 years in other cases and they deem credible..

(06-09-2023 09:23 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  Yes. As I've said many times...most Repub voters think for themselves and most Dem voters just pull the blue lever, no matter what.

There is still a lot of groupthink in the GOP. the GOP as a whole is still stuck in 2016. Establishment vs Trump. Meanwhile the Dems have gotten over that and have zero infighting, but they don't stand for anything. It's why nobody respects the current admin.

(06-09-2023 09:23 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  Yes. As I've said many times...most Repub voters think for themselves and most Dem voters just pull the blue lever, no matter what.

My God, are you detached from reality!

(06-09-2023 09:25 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 07:33 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-08-2023 05:54 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  So are there any lefties in this forum that want to investigate this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. Please seriously investigate this. If it's true he should be impeached and indicted. I can't comment on how credible that source is, but that should be figured out because that's an extremely serious allegation.

The source is a Human Informant that the FBI has been used for 20 years in other cases and they deem credible..

Yes I have heard that, and that's certainly a very good reason to take this extremely serious. Doesn't mean what he's saying is automatically true, you can be credible on one topic but have a bias that makes you not credible on another, but it shows this person is not just a crank that can be dismissed out of hand. This needs to be investigated, and I'm going to agree with people on the right that you can't trust what the FBI says on this. I don't trust what the FBI says on anything. Of course I don't trust what these GOP congressional members say either, but that's why the evidence should be brought to the public so we can all decide the truth.

(06-09-2023 09:57 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 09:25 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 07:33 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-08-2023 05:54 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  So are there any lefties in this forum that want to investigate this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes. Please seriously investigate this. If it's true he should be impeached and indicted. I can't comment on how credible that source is, but that should be figured out because that's an extremely serious allegation.

The source is a Human Informant that the FBI has been used for 20 years in other cases and they deem credible..

Yes I have heard that, and that's certainly a very good reason to take this extremely serious. Doesn't mean what he's saying is automatically true, you can be credible on one topic but have a bias that makes you not credible on another, but it shows this person is not just a crank that can be dismissed out of hand. This needs to be investigated, and I'm going to agree with people on the right that you can't trust what the FBI says on this. I don't trust what the FBI says on anything. Of course I don't trust what these GOP congressional members say either, but that's why the evidence should be brought to the public so we can all decide the truth.

And it could all be false. Squashing investigations makes it look like a massive coverup. We know the laptop is real and has damning evidence, so where there is smoke...fire.

(06-09-2023 09:57 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 09:25 AM)gdunn Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 07:33 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-08-2023 05:54 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  So are there any lefties in this forum that want to investigate this?


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Yes. Please seriously investigate this. If it's true he should be impeached and indicted. I can't comment on how credible that source is, but that should be figured out because that's an extremely serious allegation.

The source is a Human Informant that the FBI has been used for 20 years in other cases and they deem credible..

Yes I have heard that, and that's certainly a very good reason to take this extremely serious. Doesn't mean what he's saying is automatically true, you can be credible on one topic but have a bias that makes you not credible on another, but it shows this person is not just a crank that can be dismissed out of hand. This needs to be investigated, and I'm going to agree with people on the right that you can't trust what the FBI says on this. I don't trust what the FBI says on anything. Of course I don't trust what these GOP congressional members say either, but that's why the evidence should be brought to the public so we can all decide the truth.

If this person is now deemed not credible, that could jeopardize other crimes they've helped on I would think.. I'm not sure how this works.

(06-09-2023 09:23 AM)oruvoice Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 09:13 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 09:00 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:50 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(06-09-2023 08:45 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I'm always going to have some level of fond feelings for Bernie for snapping me out of the learned helplessness the Dem party wants me to feel. Their goal for the left is to try to say "hey we want all the things you want, but those awful republicans won't let us do them." He showed no they don't actually support universal healthcare, they don't actually support getting money out of politics, no they don't actually support unions, and yes they are corrupt and completely beholden to corporate interests. All of that was true, but then after they openly rigged 2 primaries against him his response to everyone who fought for him was to say "hey just ignore that whole rigging the primaries thing and vote for the party I have said is corrupt and selling you out because the other guy is worse." If the GOP establishment had the power to do to Trump in 2016 what Obama and the DNC were able to pull against Bernie Trump would have had the guts to call them out to their faces, not endorse the primary winner, and likely would have run 3rd party.

God what a shitshow, I remember that and I was just as pissed when they did the same thing in 2020.

This is why I say that the democrat party is a big tent party, taking in everyone disgusted by the right, but that doesn't mean the democratic party represents everyone on the left, and it's rather frustrating.

This problem won't be resolved until there is enough political motivation to break up the parties, and reform campaign finance laws to mitigate the effects of money in politics.

Here's something most liberals don't understand. The current GOP electorate despises the old guard, country club style Republican Party. Obviously they want to protect their own interests instead of helping ordinary people (Dems and R's).

Trump came in through 2016 and totally wrecked the internals of the GOP and showed you don't have to be an establishment shill to win the Presidency. They (Paul Ryan, Romney, Christie, etc) would rather lose purposefully and blame Trump for everything instead of looking inward and doing what's best for the voters.

Hope this helps shed some light on why many here will back Trump, even for all of his faults, because the establishment GOP hasn't earned any support. There are many parallels will how the Dems treated Bernie in 2016, except he cucked himself like Bonds alluded to earlier instead of fighting to remake the party.

Don't disagree with much here. I think the big difference between the 2 parties is the GOP fears their base and the Dems don't. The GOP knows if they had openly and brazenly did stuff to Trump the way the DNC did to Bernie that their base would have revolted and it would have ended them as a party. Trump would have lead that revolt. The DNC knew that despite all of Bernie's bluster he'd fall in line, and that without him leading the charge enough of his supporters would fall in line that they could screw him without consequence. The DNC won, they didn't win over Bernie supporters in any way that they want or support the things they want, but they won in convincing them that they had no choice but to shut up and fall in line and almost all did.

Yes. As I've said many times...most Repub voters think for themselves and most Dem voters just pull the blue lever, no matter what.

I think a higher % of GOP voters will defy the will of their party, but I don't think "most" when push comes to shove will not pull the red lever in a general. Where I do think they are very much more militant is in primaries, where a much higher % of the base will absolutely ignore any arguments about "electability" and vote for whoever they want to. A whole bunch of Dem voters preferred Bernie's policy positions and voted for Biden anyway because they bought into that electable garbage. Now I think you could argue GOP primary voters not caring about electability in a general cost them seats in the 2022 election, but especially in a primary you should vote for what you want not vote to stop what you don't want.