(07-01-2023 11:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-30-2023 09:06 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(06-30-2023 03:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  Utah is a small state, 60% the population of Colorado, 75% of the population of Utah and several times smaller than Washington, California and Arizona. They have little history at the top level. They are a clear #8 in the Pac 10 and a long, long way behind #7. And they have significant competition for the state. If they are #1 in Utah, its by a small margin.

Doesn’t matter nearly as much. While CU would be valued if Prime wins, Utah has already won. They’d be a good rival for UN. The B1G wouldn’t have to double up in the Bay.

It’s between Cal Utah and ASU now if the b1G puts six teams out there. There are literally no other schools they’d consider. Could they stop at UO and UW? Probably. But Stanford is still the best all-around brand IMO in the field aside from ND. They’ll be added. That 20th school, I feel Utah has a 35-40% chance. So you are way off base on this.

Utah hasn't accomplished as much as Cincinnati, UCF or Houston in the last decade, who have won BCS bowls or gotten into the CFP. They don't have an MNC like BYU. And it would be beyond absurd to suggest one of them be invited to the P2. Utah is a newbie. They are an afterthought in most sports fans minds.

The argument that Utah hasn't accomplished as much as Cincinnati, UCF or Houston in the last decade, who have won BCS bowls or gotten into the CFP is comparing apples to oranges since Utah has been slugging it out in a P5 conference, the PAC 12, since the 2011–2012 academic year
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Utes) while Cincinnati, UCF, & Houston have been members of a G5 conference, the American Athletic Conference, since the 2013–2014 academic year. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_A...timeline).

It took that amount of time for Utah to develop into PAC 12 conference contender....compare that same time period with Cincinnati, UCF, & Houston respectively their first decade in the B12 to Utah's first decade in the PAC 12 then make an assessment...accomplishments made as a member of a G5 conference is the play into membership to a P5 conference...

In the last decade Utah as a member of a P5 conference has:

2 Pac-12 Conference championships...(2021, 2022)

2 NCAA sanctioned major bowl games appearances...
Rose Bowl...(2021, 2022)

During the same time Cincinnati, UCF, & Houston as members of a G5 conference have:

7 AAC championships...

Cincinnati - (3) (2014*, 2020, 2021)
*Co-Champions w/UCF & Memphis

Houston - (1) (2015)

UCF - (4) (2013, 2014*, 2017, 2018)
*Co-Champions w/Cincinnati & Memphis

6 NCAA sanctioned major bowl games appearances...

Cincinnati - (2)
Peach Bowl (2020)
Cotton Bowl (2021*)
*CFP Semifinal Game

Houston - (1)
Peach Bowl (2015)

UCF - (3)
Fiesta Bowl (2013*)
*BCS Bowl
Peach Bowl (2017)
Fiesta Bowl (2018)

1 NCAA BCS appearance...

UCF - Fiesta Bowl (2013*)
*Played Jan. 2014

1 NCAA CFP appearances...

Cincinnati - Cotton Bowl (2021*)
*CFP Semifinal Game

(07-02-2023 03:30 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(07-01-2023 11:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-30-2023 09:06 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(06-30-2023 03:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  Utah is a small state, 60% the population of Colorado, 75% of the population of Utah and several times smaller than Washington, California and Arizona. They have little history at the top level. They are a clear #8 in the Pac 10 and a long, long way behind #7. And they have significant competition for the state. If they are #1 in Utah, its by a small margin.

Doesn’t matter nearly as much. While CU would be valued if Prime wins, Utah has already won. They’d be a good rival for UN. The B1G wouldn’t have to double up in the Bay.

It’s between Cal Utah and ASU now if the b1G puts six teams out there. There are literally no other schools they’d consider. Could they stop at UO and UW? Probably. But Stanford is still the best all-around brand IMO in the field aside from ND. They’ll be added. That 20th school, I feel Utah has a 35-40% chance. So you are way off base on this.

Utah hasn't accomplished as much as Cincinnati, UCF or Houston in the last decade, who have won BCS bowls or gotten into the CFP. They don't have an MNC like BYU. And it would be beyond absurd to suggest one of them be invited to the P2. Utah is a newbie. They are an afterthought in most sports fans minds.

The argument that Utah hasn't accomplished as much as Cincinnati, UCF or Houston in the last decade, who have won BCS bowls or gotten into the CFP is comparing apples to oranges since Utah has been slugging it out in a P5 conference, the PAC 12, since the 2011–2012 academic year
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Utes) while Cincinnati, UCF, & Houston have been members of a G5 conference, the American Athletic Conference, since the 2013–2014 academic year. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_A...timeline).

It took that amount of time for Utah to develop into PAC 12 conference contender....compare that same time period with Cincinnati, UCF, & Houston respectively their first decade in the B12 to Utah's first decade in the PAC 12 then make an assessment...accomplishments made as a member of a G5 conference is the play into membership to a P5 conference...

In the last decade Utah as a member of a P5 conference has:

2 Pac-12 Conference championships...(2021, 2022)

2 NCAA sanctioned major bowl games appearances...
Rose Bowl...(2021, 2022)

During the same time Cincinnati, UCF, & Houston as members of a G5 conference have:

7 AAC championships...

Cincinnati - (3) (2014*, 2020, 2021)
*Co-Champions w/UCF & Memphis

Houston - (1) (2015)

UCF - (4) (2013, 2014*, 2017, 2018)
*Co-Champions w/Cincinnati & Memphis

6 NCAA sanctioned major bowl games appearances...

Cincinnati - (2)
Peach Bowl (2020)
Cotton Bowl (2021*)
*CFP Semifinal Game

Houston - (1)
Peach Bowl (2015)

UCF - (3)
Fiesta Bowl (2013*)
*BCS Bowl
Peach Bowl (2017)
Fiesta Bowl (2018)

1 NCAA BCS appearance...

UCF - Fiesta Bowl (2013*)
*Played Jan. 2014

1 NCAA CFP appearances...

Cincinnati - Cotton Bowl (2021*)
*CFP Semifinal Game

Good point about Utah playing in a tougher conference, that matters greatly I think.

IMO, Utah has accomplished more than Cincy and Houston for sure, and probably more than UCF.

I would bet a composite MC rating over the 10 seasons would have Utah ahead of all of them.

Its a subjective decision on Utah vs. the other schools, but for me, Cincinnati is the most impressive getting the CFP birth. CFP births are extremely rare & the get one as a G5 was considered impossible. The CFP birth, from a G5 conference, makes Cincinnati by far the most impressive of the group to me.

(07-02-2023 08:20 AM)Section 200 Wrote:  Its a subjective decision on Utah vs. the other schools, but for me, Cincinnati is the most impressive getting the CFP birth. CFP births are extremely rare & the get one as a G5 was considered impossible. The CFP birth, from a G5 conference, makes Cincinnati by far the most impressive of the group to me.

I agree that is the single best achievement among those four schools during the last 10 years. But it is just one achievement, one year.

IMO, over the 10 year period, Utah has been best. But that's just my take.

(07-02-2023 08:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-02-2023 08:20 AM)Section 200 Wrote:  Its a subjective decision on Utah vs. the other schools, but for me, Cincinnati is the most impressive getting the CFP birth. CFP births are extremely rare & the get one as a G5 was considered impossible. The CFP birth, from a G5 conference, makes Cincinnati by far the most impressive of the group to me.

I agree that is the single best achievement among those four schools during the last 10 years. But it is just one achievement, one year.

IMO, over the 10 year period, Utah has been best. But that's just my take.

Far enough - I remember the Big East when Cincy earned bids to the Orange Bowl & Sugar Bowl - I think of Utah like that - Pac now is essentially the Big East of the 2008-2010 time frame, they are grandfathered into the system, so Utah gets a bowl bid.

2021 Utah lost to SD State, BYU & Oregon State - if a G5 had those loses, no chance at a great bowl bid

2022 Utah lost to Florida, UCLA & Oregon - schools sound impressive but that was a 6-7 Florida team. The Florida loss was very damaging to the Pac image. Again no way a G5 gets a good bowl bid with those losses.

(07-02-2023 08:47 AM)Section 200 Wrote:  

(07-02-2023 08:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-02-2023 08:20 AM)Section 200 Wrote:  Its a subjective decision on Utah vs. the other schools, but for me, Cincinnati is the most impressive getting the CFP birth. CFP births are extremely rare & the get one as a G5 was considered impossible. The CFP birth, from a G5 conference, makes Cincinnati by far the most impressive of the group to me.

I agree that is the single best achievement among those four schools during the last 10 years. But it is just one achievement, one year.

IMO, over the 10 year period, Utah has been best. But that's just my take.

Far enough - I remember the Big East when Cincy earned bids to the Orange Bowl & Sugar Bowl - I think of Utah like that - Pac now is essentially the Big East of the 2008-2010 time frame, they are grandfathered into the system, so Utah gets a bowl bid.

2021 Utah lost to SD State, BYU & Oregon State - if a G5 had those loses, no chance at a great bowl bid

2022 Utah lost to Florida, UCLA & Oregon - schools sound impressive but that was a 6-7 Florida team. The Florida loss was very damaging to the Pac image. Again no way a G5 gets a good bowl bid with those losses.

Very true.

Utah’s “rise” exemplifies the decay of the PAC.

Add in PAC Network obscurity while already being innate to only 20% of the population, an apathetic 20%, and those PAC brands of last century need to be saved by rust belt BIG fans

(07-02-2023 07:09 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-02-2023 03:30 AM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(07-01-2023 11:41 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-30-2023 09:06 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(06-30-2023 03:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  Utah is a small state, 60% the population of Colorado, 75% of the population of Utah and several times smaller than Washington, California and Arizona. They have little history at the top level. They are a clear #8 in the Pac 10 and a long, long way behind #7. And they have significant competition for the state. If they are #1 in Utah, its by a small margin.

Doesn’t matter nearly as much. While CU would be valued if Prime wins, Utah has already won. They’d be a good rival for UN. The B1G wouldn’t have to double up in the Bay.

It’s between Cal Utah and ASU now if the b1G puts six teams out there. There are literally no other schools they’d consider. Could they stop at UO and UW? Probably. But Stanford is still the best all-around brand IMO in the field aside from ND. They’ll be added. That 20th school, I feel Utah has a 35-40% chance. So you are way off base on this.

Utah hasn't accomplished as much as Cincinnati, UCF or Houston in the last decade, who have won BCS bowls or gotten into the CFP. They don't have an MNC like BYU. And it would be beyond absurd to suggest one of them be invited to the P2. Utah is a newbie. They are an afterthought in most sports fans minds.

The argument that Utah hasn't accomplished as much as Cincinnati, UCF or Houston in the last decade, who have won BCS bowls or gotten into the CFP is comparing apples to oranges since Utah has been slugging it out in a P5 conference, the PAC 12, since the 2011–2012 academic year
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Utes) while Cincinnati, UCF, & Houston have been members of a G5 conference, the American Athletic Conference, since the 2013–2014 academic year. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_A...timeline).

It took that amount of time for Utah to develop into PAC 12 conference contender....compare that same time period with Cincinnati, UCF, & Houston respectively their first decade in the B12 to Utah's first decade in the PAC 12 then make an assessment...accomplishments made as a member of a G5 conference is the play into membership to a P5 conference...

In the last decade Utah as a member of a P5 conference has:

2 Pac-12 Conference championships...(2021, 2022)

2 NCAA sanctioned major bowl games appearances...
Rose Bowl...(2021, 2022)

During the same time Cincinnati, UCF, & Houston as members of a G5 conference have:

7 AAC championships...

Cincinnati - (3) (2014*, 2020, 2021)
*Co-Champions w/UCF & Memphis

Houston - (1) (2015)

UCF - (4) (2013, 2014*, 2017, 2018)
*Co-Champions w/Cincinnati & Memphis

6 NCAA sanctioned major bowl games appearances...

Cincinnati - (2)
Peach Bowl (2020)
Cotton Bowl (2021*)
*CFP Semifinal Game

Houston - (1)
Peach Bowl (2015)

UCF - (3)
Fiesta Bowl (2013*)
*BCS Bowl
Peach Bowl (2017)
Fiesta Bowl (2018)

1 NCAA BCS appearance...

UCF - Fiesta Bowl (2013*)
*Played Jan. 2014

1 NCAA CFP appearances...

Cincinnati - Cotton Bowl (2021*)
*CFP Semifinal Game

Good point about Utah playing in a tougher conference, that matters greatly I think.

IMO, Utah has accomplished more than Cincy and Houston for sure, and probably more than UCF.

I would bet a composite MC rating over the 10 seasons would have Utah ahead of all of them.

Was it tougher? In 2021 the PAC had a losing record against the MWC and the conference was rated lower.