I think the top of the FBS has gone nuts. That being said, be careful on the "drop down" talk. It won't happen, even if the Power 3-4 decide to break away.....we'll all just be stepped down, and FCS becomes D2 in the pecking order.

JMU realistically moved to join like minded schools, not just to get to FBS. Heck, the SBC is full of former FCS stalwarts. We're amongst peers who care and show up, for the most part. Far cry from what we largely saw in the current CAA and FCS. Our biggest rivals (UR/W&M) wouldn't bring more than 250 fans to Harrisonburg anymore, and it wasn't a ton better away. The last UR/JMU game in Richmond was absolutely shocking.

In this changing landscape of CFB, I'd argue the SBC's model is more tenable than what is going on in the P5. TV will always have a place for full stadiums, pageantry, and rivalries. Those are the things that made CFB popular to begin with.

(08-08-2023 08:26 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  I think the top of the FBS has gone nuts. That being said, be careful on the "drop down" talk. It won't happen, even if the Power 3-4 decide to break away.....we'll all just be stepped down, and FCS becomes D2 in the pecking order.

JMU realistically moved to join like minded schools, not just to get to FBS. Heck, the SBC is full of former FCS stalwarts. We're amongst peers who care and show up, for the most part. Far cry from what we largely saw in the current CAA and FCS. Our biggest rivals (UR/W&M) wouldn't bring more than 250 fans to Harrisonburg anymore, and heck, it wasn't a ton better away. The last UR/JMU game in Richmond was absolutely shocking.

In this changing landscape of CFB, I'd argue the SBC's model is more tenable than what is going on in the P5. TV will always have a place for full stadiums, pageantry, and rivalries. Those are the things that made CFB popular to begin with.

I'd really like to see us and Delaware move up to the Sun Belt if we ever get the chance. Probably the only G5 conference that seems to be a good fit geographically and academically. But we need to work on getting higher attendance, and a larger dedicated fanbase first (seems to be trending in the right direction tho).

Discussion as to whether JMU and/or is properly positioned is extremely premature.

I would guess that within 5 years or so “big time” schools will be paying football players. A model that works if “pay = scholarship” might not work for a lot of schools when “pay = real money”.

In any event, I don’t see W&M competing at any level except the amateur level. I shouldn’t speak for JMU and I won’t but a college must have enough athletic revenues (including media rights and donations but excluding state aid) to cover the cost of athlete pay.

If someone wants to discuss W&M in that universe I am open to be persuaded - AFTER Kaplan is renovated.

(08-09-2023 05:11 PM)tribeinexile Wrote:  Discussion as to whether JMU and/or is properly positioned is extremely premature.

I would guess that within 5 years or so “big time” schools will be paying football players. A model that works if “pay = scholarship” might not work for a lot of schools when “pay = real money”.

In any event, I don’t see W&M competing at any level except the amateur level. I shouldn’t speak for JMU and I won’t but a college must have enough athletic revenues (including media rights and donations but excluding state aid) to cover the cost of athlete pay.

If someone wants to discuss W&M in that universe I am open to be persuaded - AFTER Kaplan is renovated.

I have to wonder, if a Zable expansion was being funded instead of Kaplan getting renovated, would the money have been fully raised already?

Welcome Bryant
https://twitter.com/FCS_STATS/status/168...W_VNQ&s=19

Definitely sets the stage for a true North & South division. Question is, does the south get UD or Nova. I'm guessing UD.

(08-08-2023 08:26 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  I think the top of the FBS has gone nuts. That being said, be careful on the "drop down" talk. It won't happen, even if the Power 3-4 decide to break away.....we'll all just be stepped down, and FCS becomes D2 in the pecking order.

JMU realistically moved to join like minded schools, not just to get to FBS. Heck, the SBC is full of former FCS stalwarts. We're amongst peers who care and show up, for the most part. Far cry from what we largely saw in the current CAA and FCS. Our biggest rivals (UR/W&M) wouldn't bring more than 250 fans to Harrisonburg anymore, and it wasn't a ton better away. The last UR/JMU game in Richmond was absolutely shocking.

In this changing landscape of CFB, I'd argue the SBC's model is more tenable than what is going on in the P5. TV will always have a place for full stadiums, pageantry, and rivalries. Those are the things that made CFB popular to begin with.

No FBS school is going to voluntarily drop down, I agree. These will be strictly economic decisions based on balance sheets and survival. Revenue to the top conferences is going to increase and revenue to the rest of FBS is going to decrease at the same time costs continue to rise. Idaho was the first, but they won't be the last. I could see a face-saving measure whereby non-power FBS reduces scholarships and merges with the top of FCS to avoid the stigma, but there's no getting around the worsening economics of FBS outside the power conferences. I have no opinion on JMU specifically.

(08-10-2023 09:13 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  Welcome Bryant
https://twitter.com/FCS_STATS/status/168...W_VNQ&s=19

Definitely sets the stage for a true North & South division. Question is, does the south get UD or Nova. I'm guessing UD.

Well, alright. Would have been nice to get another all-sports member but maybe this will be a Stony Brook situation.

(08-08-2023 08:26 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  I think the top of the FBS has gone nuts. That being said, be careful on the "drop down" talk. It won't happen, even if the Power 3-4 decide to break away.....we'll all just be stepped down, and FCS becomes D2 in the pecking order.

JMU realistically moved to join like minded schools, not just to get to FBS. Heck, the SBC is full of former FCS stalwarts. We're amongst peers who care and show up, for the most part. Far cry from what we largely saw in the current CAA and FCS. Our biggest rivals (UR/W&M) wouldn't bring more than 250 fans to Harrisonburg anymore, and it wasn't a ton better away. The last UR/JMU game in Richmond was absolutely shocking.

In this changing landscape of CFB, I'd argue the SBC's model is more tenable than what is going on in the P5. TV will always have a place for full stadiums, pageantry, and rivalries. Those are the things that made CFB popular to begin with.

I think it was the right move for you guys. You’ve got a conference/division with a handful of regional rivals. After 2024 you could plausibly run the table in the SBC and find yourselves with a playoff bid. That’s fun!

From a W&M perspective, it sucked to lose you. As a fan I would like to play with some of our old friends back at Zable, yes JMU but also ODU, ECU, Navy, etc. I understand that the cost of G5 football is obscene, but this is higher ed in 2023. Everything is obscene. Universities are tax-exempt entertainment parks with political clout sitting atop massive financial & real estate fortunes. You’re telling me UL-Monroe can play FBS football but William & Mary “just can’t afford it”? Give me a break. If our appetite was there, and our priorities were there, we would be there.

(08-10-2023 09:13 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  Welcome Bryant
https://twitter.com/FCS_STATS/status/168...W_VNQ&s=19

Definitely sets the stage for a true North & South division. Question is, does the south get UD or Nova. I'm guessing UD.

Every time I start to feel like maybe the CAA isn't that bad, they go and do something like this. Welcome losing program from no name conference with mediocre academics. Bleh, this conference stinks and keeps getting worse. Yes, the top half football is amazing for fcs level and I'd hate to leave it. But with our history (academic and athletic) it's getting embarrassing to be in a conference with programs that have been division 1 for less than 3% of our existence as an institution. SBC or Patriot, go big or play worthy peers.

If there truly is a north and south angle, that helps a lot with travel costs. If not, I'm of the opinion we need to move south.

(08-10-2023 12:06 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  If there truly is a north and south angle, that helps a lot with travel costs. If not, I'm of the opinion we need to move south.

The CAA commissioner mentioned a future possible north/south configuration after the previous set of moves. 16 teams is a bit unwieldy for a single division. Makes too much sense to split the conference

GET US OUT OF THIS DUMPSTER FIRE CONFERENCE

I feel for you guys. I've been touting W&M to the Patriot for years but just get laughed at. Good luck!

I feel like a move to Patriot would be at best a lateral move and at worst potentially weaken our ability to recruit good players. And while Patriot schools are definitely a better match for us academically, they're not a good match athletically, other than Holy Cross.

If we move I want to see us move up.

(08-10-2023 12:21 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(08-10-2023 12:06 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  If there truly is a north and south angle, that helps a lot with travel costs. If not, I'm of the opinion we need to move south.

The CAA commissioner mentioned a future possible north/south configuration after the previous set of moves. 16 teams is a bit unwieldy for a single division. Makes too much sense to split the conference

Let’s truly split the conference in two. One half will contain W&M, UD, ‘Nova, UNH, UR, and 3 of Towson/Maine/Monmouth/Stony Brook. The other 8 schools can form their own conference with Joey D as Commish.

We should move up together with Delaware to either the Sunbelt or MAC if/when such an opportunity arises. Neither school belongs in a conference with universities that play football in high school stadiums. When the ACC blows up, our schools should both be prepared for the ripple effect that will find its way down to our level

(08-10-2023 08:14 PM)tribefootballfan Wrote:  I feel like a move to Patriot would be at best a lateral move and at worst potentially weaken our ability to recruit good players. And while Patriot schools are definitely a better match for us academically, they're not a good match athletically, other than Holy Cross.

If we move I want to see us move up.

What do we have in common with PL schools other than undergraduate selectivity? The answer is very little.

If we are talking about changing FCS conferences (and I don't think we are) I would rather return to the SoCon on a virtually lateral move than bump all the way down to the Patriot.

(08-10-2023 06:38 PM)mainejeff Wrote:  I feel for you guys. I've been touting W&M to the Patriot for years but just get laughed at. Good luck!

Well maybe that’s because you’re a joke Jeffery

(08-11-2023 04:06 AM)Tribe4SF Wrote:  

(08-10-2023 08:14 PM)tribefootballfan Wrote:  I feel like a move to Patriot would be at best a lateral move and at worst potentially weaken our ability to recruit good players. And while Patriot schools are definitely a better match for us academically, they're not a good match athletically, other than Holy Cross.

If we move I want to see us move up.

What do we have in common with PL schools other than undergraduate selectivity? The answer is very little.

Selectivity is huge. We’re the most selective school in the CAA and that has a major effect on recruiting. We also share a more similar size and student body. It would put us in a market where most of our out of state students come from. Our student athletes are already being heavily recruited by PL schools in most cases. Our general alum base is spread heavily throughout the northeast.

Like it or not, it’s the only conference WM is likely considering. It was discussed among admin in the ‘12-‘13 realignment and Martin revealed it came up in this wave. Ironically I’d bet it’s cost that is holding us back as the new CAA adds give a southern core of easy bus trips.