The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

NOTE: I will try to keep this WMU related so bare with me.

We attended "Family Day" this past weekend at GVSU to visit our daughter who is in her final year and niece who is a freshman. We arrived a full two hours before kickoff -- we had some friends who setup an hour earlier than us in the main tailgate lot C so I wasn't concerned about not getting their earlier since we had a +2 hour drive. Campus was an absolute mad house. I ended up dropping off my wife and youngest son off so they could easily walk to the tailgate -- we had planned this since we visit on "Family Day" last year. There were only a few spot left in the far back lot toward the Grand River. There were no buses running to the main tailgate/stadium so I ended up walking around 15 minutes carrying what my wife and youngest son could not take when I dropped them off.

We ended up not attending the game since it was sold out and there were only lawn seats left -- I knew this beforehand since I was late to acquire tickets and nobody was willing to sit on the lawn. My daughter, who worked the morning of the game, could not find a spot to park when she arrived around 12:30 pm -- the game was at 1 pm. She was a bit upset and so we packed up and met her at a local restaurant. When I walked back to my car to pick everyone up from the tailgate I realized how bad the situation was -- cars were parked on the sides of the road and on lawn areas of the parking lot. That's when it hit me -- GVSU is no where near capable of hosting an event with this many people.

My daughters comment once we met her was this: "They admitted way too many freshmen to this campus". I couldn't agree more.

It made me realize how well WMU has coordinated their effort to bus people to the stadium for their own family weekend. You could almost tailgate anywhere around campus and find a bus to drop you off at the game.

At the end of the day, WMU was built to host 25K-30K students. It's a shame we are losing so many students to GVSU. This administration needs to do a study why we are losing so many students to GVSU in particular. My daughter, who has attended multiple WMU events over years, visited GVSU once and decide it was for her. I think it was a combination of things: small compact modern campus; student safety; location to Lake Michigan; and that I don't think it's considered a "party school" -- although I think that may be changing.

Anyhow, i would love hear your thoughts...

I've been to tailgates at GVSU for big sold out games and never experienced what you described. I guess I did get their 3-4 hours early though.

When you start comparing everything, it's hard to come up with reasons to choose WMU over GVSU.

I think it would depend on what you intend to major in.

I toured GVSU in the fall of 2007. My parents were really impressed right off the bat and wanted me to go there. They asked me what I thought right after we got back into the car expecting that I would have had the same impression. I said no because it was too new and reminded me of a retirement home. I wanted that gritty college experience. Kids these days have different college expectations and desires. WMU fell behind by not updating dorms and facilities sooner although they seem to be on the right path now.

I would love for WMU to have the same problems that BroncoMD is describing. That would mean WMU is thriving.

--- It’s a commuter school. Lot of students who don’t want to ‘go away’ for school & want to continue living at home go w/ all their old friends they grew up w/ go to GVSU. School is doing well pulling from the Detroit area tho, but the foundation was built on their relationship to GR.

--- When I was in high school, the counselors would tell us ‘go to GRCC for a few years then transfer to GVSU & finish it out’. GVSU is ‘in bed’ w/ the high schools, & I don’t mean that nefariously, I just mean they are that tied together. You’re pushed to either Michigan St or GRCC then GVSU.

---It doesn’t have the ‘party school’ image we do. Our ‘party school’ image hurts us, or at least attracts a different kind of student that GVSU is good at attracting. (All schools are party schools, some schools are just better at downplaying it)

---The campus is beautiful. All the buildings are modern. The school itself seems like it has big budgets.

---In regards to your football game experience: Their football program is the equivalent of U of Michigan playing in the MAC. They could move up if they wanted to & if the MAC wanted to, but they like playing schools they have 20 times the budget of. Sounds like they at least should expand their stadium, but then they won’t be able to say they’re selling it out & that’ll hurt their ability to fool people into thinking their program is better than the MAC programs. Their stadium looks really tiny whenever I see it. I've been wanting to go to a game there for a long time now, but I just don't care enough, I guess. Western is my school, & if I want to go to a GLIAC game, I'm a stone's throw away from Davenport.

--- Finally, GVSU is a rarity. Most schools, especially in the Midwest, aren't thriving like GVSU is. It's easy to pick the one school that's doing well & say 'why can't we be them'. Yeah, that's what 1000 other schools are saying too. I've always said schools s/ try to differentiate from each other, but there's uniformity standards that make it impossible for State universities to not be a dime a dozen..& the ones that aren't sell their athletics as the big selling point. When I toured MSU, their main argument to come was 'we have Big 10 athletics' & they left it at that, that's what their whole pitch was.

It's shocking how much the comparison between the 2 schools has changed in the last couple decades, and not in WMU's favor at all. I remember WMU being at 28,000 students and setting MAC records for football attendance while GVSU was still GVSC and hadn't yet had all that DeVos money at their disposal.

WMU used to pull students who couldn't get into MSU. Now MSU has same acceptance rate and GPA requirements as WMU so that will hurt us big time.

Many GVSU students live on main campus for 1-2 years then move to downtown GR. Hard to compete with that.

Dark days ahead for WMU enrollment...CMU and EMU even worse. There will come a time where State of Michigan will have some tough decisions to make on how many State funded Universities we actually need.

GVSU has spent a lot of money wisely on their campus facilities, they have blown WMU away in marketing and recruitment, and they've played dirty (I have several examples) to the point other Universities in the state started calling for an ethics probe. Nothing came of it.

Their campus is like a gated community, making it feel safe. They also have friendly relationships with GR area media, who almost always paint them in a positive light. Compare that to WMU's relationship with local media...

While Western was trying to figure out "who we are" for the last 25 years, GVSU decided to be MSU-light and hit that message hard. They have had stable leadership to help foster their vision, whereas we blow through Presidents, VP's and directors like crazy.

I hate that they have done so well - especially the way they have done some of it. But, that doesn't change the fact that WMU has done incredibly poor at marketing and planning.

Also - GVSU happens to be seated in an area of growth. One of the very few in the Midwest. Timing and location have a lot to do with their success.

We need some positivity in this thread....

I would’ve picked GVSU over WMU. Glad I was pressured not to. I did something I didn't want to & people need to learn to do things they don't want to do. I learned a lot more than if I had stayed in GR. People in GR need to get out of their bubble at least for a few years.

It’s all about perception. I posted an mLive article a few years ago there’s virtually no difference in standards, acceptance rates, etc. between us & GVSU, but people still think GVSU is a much better school anyways.

At the end of the day, it’s about YOU & not the name of the school on your diploma. Everyone going to GVSU? Then more opportunities to step up to be a leader at WMU. Don't follow the sheep. Unless you went to a P5 school, the average employer isn’t going to care if you went to WMU or GVSU. & even then I’ve beat out U of Michigan alumni for jobs. (They tend to bring an entitled attitude w/ them that turns employers off).

It can depend on the major, but most people pick majors that are interchangeable. Most schools hire from the same pool of professors that job-bounce from school to school, & as I was saying earlier, all state universities are held to same standards in terms of what’s being taught & how it’s being taught.

Schools need to drop the same generic marketing techniques & sell themselves as not a dime-a-dozen. I’m guessing these all come from the same think tanks, standards, techqnues, & marketing gurus that have experienced sucesses elsewhere by being able to slap on a Big 10 at the bottom of the ad.

My current employer has a nice mix of WMU & GVSU grads. We are interchangable.

Dear GRBRONCO,
Eastern just had its second best freshmen enrollment. Just over 2,500. I don't know what our total enrollment figures are, but the new enrollees certainly helps.

(09-18-2023 09:49 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear GRBRONCO,
Eastern just had its second best freshmen enrollment. Just over 2,500. I don't know what our total enrollment figures are, but the new enrollees certainly helps.

Dear Ken Barna,

Do you have an alert set up anytime someone mentions EMU on this site or are you just always stalking our pages? FYI-if you click on the reply button in the lower right corner of a post, you can quote directly to the person you are trying to talk to.

Love always,
HeatherF

Sept 16th Saturday’s GVSU attendance 15849.
First game attendees was 3767

WMU 2023 frosh enrollments 3032

Dear HeatherF,
I do not comment every time Eastern is mentioned on this website. I do scan this web site occasionally to see what Western fans think of their teams, just as some Western fans I'm sure scan Eastern's web site occasionally to see what our fans think of our teams.
Maybe you have a problem with posters from other schools.

(09-18-2023 01:08 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear HeatherF,
I do not comment every time Eastern is mentioned on this website. I do scan this web site occasionally to see what Western fans think of their teams, just as some Western fans I'm sure scan Eastern's web site occasionally to see what our fans think of our teams.
Maybe you have a problem with posters from other schools.

Dear Den Barca,

I, for one, welcome your schtick. Glad to have you.

Sincerely,

That guy, with that thing, from that place

(09-18-2023 01:12 PM)Nacho Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 01:08 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear HeatherF,
I do not comment every time Eastern is mentioned on this website. I do scan this web site occasionally to see what Western fans think of their teams, just as some Western fans I'm sure scan Eastern's web site occasionally to see what our fans think of our teams.
Maybe you have a problem with posters from other schools.

Dear Den Barca,

I, for one, welcome your schtick. Glad to have you.

Sincerely,

That guy, with that thing, from that place

me like Ken Barna

I would say GVSU's changed because of the campus in the greater downtown GR area, not far from me. On the 'west side' (that side of Grand River; where Pearl turns into Lake MI drive and Michigan street turns to Bridge St) -- it's full of GVSU students. Around that area surrounding Fulton Street and the residential streets around it, it got very taken over by GVSU students. I used to live right out there -- so I experienced the "shift".

So you'll get a lot of what I'm assuming are upper classmen of GVSU living between the GR campus to a few miles down Lake MI drive (they're always around in Standale). So I think that adds to the appeal as well. And they even have a bus running nightly that traverses from Allendale to the west-side of GR, in the greater dtown area.

And yes, it's also much of a commuter school as well (especially with a campus in GR).

I can see why it'd be preferable to go there VS WMU if you live out here. In the end, if there's a notable differential on the major you're aiming for, that'd be it. But I can see those who live in the greater GR area wanting to go there.

However, WMU has a much better feel for living that "college experience".

As far as them expanding to FBS -- which they'd have to do as there's nothing really fitting for FCS -- I don't see the motive. Their stadium's way out in Allendale. If there was a nice sized football stadium in GR, that'd be a motive, I guess. They're settled into D2 just fine with good competition in the area. For the same reason NDST & SDST don't want to go FBS.

(09-19-2023 12:53 AM)toddjnsn Wrote:  I would say GVSU's changed because of the campus in the greater downtown GR area, not far from me. On the 'west side' (that side of Grand River; where Pearl turns into Lake MI drive and Michigan street turns to Bridge St) -- it's full of GVSU students. Around that area surrounding Fulton Street and the residential streets around it, it got very taken over by GVSU students. I used to live right out there -- so I experienced the "shift".

So you'll get a lot of what I'm assuming are upper classmen of GVSU living between the GR campus to a few miles down Lake MI drive (they're always around in Standale). So I think that adds to the appeal as well. And they even have a bus running nightly that traverses from Allendale to the west-side of GR, in the greater dtown area.

And yes, it's also much of a commuter school as well (especially with a campus in GR).

I can see why it'd be preferable to go there VS WMU if you live out here. In the end, if there's a notable differential on the major you're aiming for, that'd be it. But I can see those who live in the greater GR area wanting to go there.

However, WMU has a much better feel for living that "college experience".

As far as them expanding to FBS -- which they'd have to do as there's nothing really fitting for FCS -- I don't see the motive. Their stadium's way out in Allendale. If there was a nice sized football stadium in GR, that'd be a motive, I guess. They're settled into D2 just fine with good competition in the area. For the same reason NDST & SDST don't want to go FBS.

I can totally understand why parents in GR would send their kids to GVSU especially with the cost of college these days. If this is the case, I can see why there was a huge influx of vehicles attending the game on family day.

My daughter currently lives in a house with a group of girls east of John Ball Zoo. So it's an easy commute to the medical campus downtown for her.

What did schools like WMU, CMU, EMU do when they lost over 40% of their enrollment over the last 15 years? They ADDED cost! They kept the same amount of teachers and added more administration bloat while building shiny new buildings. If they really wanted to get a competitive advantage they should have reduced headcount by 40-50% and lowered tuition.

(09-19-2023 07:48 AM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  What did schools like WMU, CMU, EMU do when they lost over 40% of their enrollment over the last 15 years? They ADDED cost! They kept the same amount of teachers and added more administration bloat while building shiny new buildings. If they really wanted to get a competitive advantage they should have reduced headcount by 40-50% and lowered tuition.

They certainly do not have the same amount of faculty or staff. Programs getting cut. We just went through a massive $80+million cut that wiped out faculty and staff.

There is no "competitive" advantage with old buildings and out of date equipment.

We're not some corner store selling widgets. There are real people here taking on two and three different roles just to keep things afloat while having wages frozen or diminished. You don't know what you're talking about if you lump in WMU with other schools.